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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Norfolk => England => Norfolk Lookup Requests => Topic started by: bobtonks on Friday 21 March 08 18:28 GMT (UK)
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Anthony Royal age 60 lived in Yarmouth with his family in 1841.
Can anyone see him in the 1851 census? He died in 1857.
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Hi Bob
Is this him in 1851
Anthony Royal mar 73 greenwich pensioner Norfolk Yarmouth
Ann " wife mar 62 or 68 " Horning?
Robert " son u/m 30 lab " Yarmouth
living at Row 23, Grt Yarmouth, Norfolk
H0107/ 1806
folio 510
page 44
ricky
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Hi Ricky, good to hear from you again.
Yes, the info looks good. Thanks
Bob
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Hi Bob
Your welcome , long time no speak
regards
ricky ;)
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Hi Bob. I am also tracing Anthony Royal. He is my GGGG Grandfather. Are you related, and are you able to help me with my never ending amount of questions re the Royal Family.
Thank you
Jackie
Australia
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Hi Jackie,
I have been doing some research on Anthony Royal as he is my GGGG Grandfather. What an interesting character he seems to be. As you can see in the Census, he is a Greenwich Pensioner. I have searched to find out if he was Merchant or Royal Navy and I have found him. He was listed as Thomas Reed onboard HMS Spartiate at the battle of Trafalgar. He is also was known as Anthony Royale who was born in 'North Yarmouth'. His rank was that of Boatswains Mate, which as I understand is an Non Commissioned Officer. His job would have been to keep the ship working and the men in line. A hard man not to be messed with! I have still to find out why he had two names - very intrigueing! HMS Spartiate was lucky to not have many casualties - only three, however together with HMS Taurus they captured the Spanish ship 'The Neptuno'. The Captain was given the 'Union Jack' from the Spartiate as a reward. This sole surviving Union Jack was recently sold at Auction for around £350,000 to an American. If only I had the money!
His first son 'Robert Richard Royal' was a very bad character. He was tried for the murder of Harriet Chandler, but due to early policing methods was aquitted. Samuel Yarman was found guilty and was hung. 30,000 people came to the hanging. It is very clear that Robert Royal killed the shopkeeper and was a known theif and generally bad man. His father 'Anthony' is mentioned as gathering support by other Yarmouth traders to 'lean' on officials. It paints a picture that our Royal family were not to be messed with. The story of the murder is beautifully written in Maurice Morson's book 'Mayhem and Murder in Norfolk'.
Luckily I descend from James John Royal, Anthony's 4th son :)
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Hello,
My wife is also decended from James John Royal, Anthony Royals son! I too have Anthonys papers and a couple of pictures of HMS Spartiate from Greenwich museum.
We would love to hear from you and would be willing to share all our info with yourself, albeit there is not a lot, just the usual census returns and a few certificates. We also have a photo of J J Royals gravestone.
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Thank you for the reply and yes I would love you to send me the photo of James John Royal's grave stone. I have found the probate records for James and his affects valued at his death was £13,047 14s 5d....This equates to over £1 million pounds in todays money. Not bad! I wouldlove to find out how he amassed this fortune. I wonder if I ever will.
My email is (*)
Cheers
Mike Emeny
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Hi
The story of the murder was interesting if im not mistaken wasnt a Hall also involved ? [ im connected to Hall ] also in my tree one of my relatives married George Thomas Royal son of James John Royal [Runham ] Norfolk .
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This family has generated quite a lot of interest. I am curious to know of the Australian connection (which part of the family emigrated).
I have that Murder book mentioned and it was a James Hall involved in the murder in Yarmouth.
I am trying to insert the picture of J J Royals grave and I also have a photograph of his house in Runham, Vauxhall. I can't figure out how to do it?
I think he acquired his fortune through the toll bridge where he had some sort of right to the fees to cross. He was also on the council.
I have never found a photograph of him and considering his wealth and size of family he would have had several photos done but they have either been destroyed or the part of family that had them has gone!
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Hi all,
I noticed a couple of Trees for Anthony with no Parents listed and thought I'd have a look;
Possible scenario.
Possible Christening;
Anthony ROYALL, 03 April 1774, Norwich, Norfolk
Parents THOMAS/ELIZABETH
(IGI has it at St John Timberhill, Norwich)
Plus also in Norwich to a Thomas/Elizabeth from FreeREG;
THOMAS, 06 August 1770
JOHN, 13 October 1771
Then we have, St Nicholas, Great Yarmouth, to a Thomas/Elizabeth;
ROBERT 1776
NURSEY 1778
MARY 1780
(Source FreeREG)
IGI has a Thomas ROYALL marrying Elizabeth MOORE, 28 October 1767, Saint John Timberhill, Norwich, Norfolk
+ FreeREG has a Thomas ROYAL, Widower marring Sarah HUBELDAY, 1788 in Kings Lynn.
Could Anthony been have born Norwich and grown up on Yarmouth and that is where he thought he was born?
Interestingly there is a ANTHONY Royall, Bachelor of Great Yarmouth marrying
Alrita DYE, Spinster at St Nicholas, 06 January 1734/1735
Anthony who died 1857 was Buried 07 January 1857, Yarmouth, Norfolk
It may be worth you checking out Freereg, F/S Pilot, IGI etc to go back further if you have already not done so.
Trish :)
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Hello -I am another descendant of James John Royal -his daughter Hannah was my the mother of my grandmother. I am fascinated by the story of Antony Royal and his 2 names. How did you establish that both names belonged to the same person? It certainly makes tracing ancestors difficult when they do things like that! I believe sailors got a sum of money when they enlisted on a ship. Do you think our Antony enlisted twice and received double pay?
From the census information it seems that he was born in 1781 so I doubt if he is the Antony Royall born in Norwich in 1774- unless of course he was confused about his date and his place of birth, which is perfectly possible I suppose
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Hi,
His pension papers has his name listed and the alias together and the muster list for one of the ships he served on had his alias name linked.
I don't think he would have got double pay, I've never heard of that.
All research has failed to establish his birthplace and parents. I presume your Hannah married Samuel Hambling?
I will be interested to talk further and fill in the tree gaps with you.
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Double pay would have been a good reason for enlisting under 2 names -It's strange isn't it, especially as his alias was obviously known and recorded. I suppose we'll never know the real reason -probably something much more prosaic!
Do you suppose that Antony's father was also a mariner -in which case Antony could have been born abroad and his birth unrecorded?
You are right that Hannah married Samuel Hambling -their 3rd child Ethel May born 1886 was my grandmother. Hannah died either at or shortly after her birth.
I'd be very interested to find out more about our tree.
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Trish
I have been researching my wife's family for some time. I think you are correct with Anthony's parents although I thought it odd that non of Anthony's children (to my Knowledge) were named Thomas or Elizabeth. Maybe Elizabeth Moore lived in Norwich, which could explain why they initially lived there. Do you know why when I search James John Royal in the IGI I get duplicate results for 'Yarmouth' and 'Earsdon by North Shields'?
Bob
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Hi Bob -According to Freereg, an Anthony Royall was baptised in Yarmouth on 12th November 1738, son of Anthony and Alf* Royall. (Alf* is referred to as Affita and Affrilla on the baptism records of her other children and, as Trish says she is Altrita Dye on her marriage record -she obviously gave the transcribers problems!)
Do you think the Anthony baptised in 1738 could be the father of our Anthony Royal?
Another possibilty -if our Anthony was the son of Thomas and Elizabeth born Norwich 1774-is that he ran away to sea -using the name Thomas Reed as an alias until he was of age and didn't risk being brought home by his parents. in which case he may have claimed his adopted home -Yarmouth as his birthplace.
Thomas Royall who married Elizabeth Moore was a farmer -perhaps Anthony rebelled against
a life working on the land. Elizabeth Moore was a widow when she married so presumably had a different maiden name.
A complete break with his parents would explain why none of Anthony's chldren were named Thomas or Elizabeth.
Jan
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I have Hannah and Samuel Hambling in my Hambling family tree that I'm researching. Click on the link below to see my site.
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The Hambling family tree is excellent- thank you so much for the link. ;D