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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: rubyrose on Friday 21 March 08 02:26 GMT (UK)
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For anyone with Liverpool ancestors or an interest in social history, this website is a must.
There are loads of photographs of 19th and 20th century Liverpool. I've just been looking at some of the places where my ancestors used to live - it would break your heart to see the conditions in which they lived.
Its really well put together with informative commentary.
http://inacityliving.piczo.com/?g=44922707&cr=7
Ruby
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This is fascinating - thanks for posting it Ruby.
Some of my OH's ancestors lived in Courts in Liverpool so it is enlightening to see these photographs. I actualy love the old buildings - shame there was such overcrowding and insanitary conditions.
I'm really enjoying this site - it's in my Favourites!
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Oh Ruby ... what have you started ..... I'm going to be there for days .... ;D ;D ;D ;D
How terrific is that ?? .... it does break your heart doesn't it ?? how lucky we are !!
Annie :)
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Hi Ruby,
Thought you would like to know that these pictures are included in books by Ged Fagan Inacityliving Editions 1/2/3 My son bought them for me last Christmas I treasure them.
Victoria
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For anyone with Liverpool ancestors or an interest in social history, this website is a must.
There are loads of photographs of 19th and 20th century Liverpool. I've just been looking at some of the places where my ancestors used to live - it would break your heart to see the conditions in which they lived.
Its really well put together with informative commentary.
http://inacityliving.piczo.com/?g=44922707&cr=7
Ruby
Ruby
I have to agree with you on this one
It is disgusting to think our ancestors had to live in such squalor.
Just goe's to show with what contempt the working or lower class was thought of back then
Untill a war broke out eh
They were the salt of the earth then.
even looking at the later photos during the 1980s and 70s
How people lived with rose tinted glasses eh.
The likes of Gerrard gardens and any of the likes in the Dingle
What a hell hole of a place to bring up your family.
I was brought up in Speke, which had its bad points
But count my blessings now my family moved from the Dingle area
Down to Speke, and not choose to live in those horror homes
Good ridance to the likes of that style of living I say
Funnily enough students and yuppies fall over themselves nowdays to live in St Andrews gardens and Myrtyl gardens
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Glad you are all 'enjoying' this website. Its awful to think of any people living in those conditions, let alone your own family.
I agree with you Heyesie about the later dwellings too, hard to believe that some of them won awards for architecture.
My dad's family came from Scotland in the 1870s and lived first of all in Clayton Street at the back of Picton Library and then in Sylvester Street, other ancestors lived in Fords Court. All of these streets are pictured on the website.
Ged Fagan's books should be compulsory reading in all Liverpool schools, they are a great piece of social history.
Regards
Ruby
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Thanks for posting this link. I've been there before but I think even more photos hav ebeen added. I know I cried when I first saw where my Great Grandparents had lived - Penrhyn St, Bostock St - real poverty.
Like Heyesie my family ended up in Speke which has had it's bad times but none of them compare to these courts of North Liverpool.
Lynne
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hi all, I have been looking at all the Liverpool photos too
and trying to become familiar with place names etc.
does anyone know if there are photos of Great George
street Liverpool district online? and is the Kent street or
place mentioned on the photo site anywhere near a Kent Square
or Saint Peters roman catholic church,these are the addresses on my Kavanagh
great grandparents marriage cert in 1899 and I'd love to see the area they lived.
regards,anne
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Hi Anne !
To those from outside Liverpool tracing their relatives, some sources of possible confusion exist. St. Peter's Roman Catholic Church in Seel Street. (after a short period of use as a Polish Church and a period of abandonment, this is now a cafe/bar). There is also a still extant and thriving, St. Peter's Church in Woolton.
http://www.toxteth.net/places/liverpool/churches/st%20peters.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Peter's_Roman_Catholic_Church,_Liverpool
Annie :)
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Also Anne ... if you Google "photos of great george street liverpool" .... you'll get some ancient and modern ones !! ;D ;D
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wow Annie, many thanks for info' and links,I found myself
getting more and more confused with exactly where it was
so thank you again,at least now I'll know what I'm looking
for and the photos I've seen are great.
anne
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WOW!! Ruby, :o :o :o
what a brilliant site :D
About 80% of my ancestors lived in Toxteth Park, in these Streets and Courts. How sad to think of them livng like this, of having no hope when the babies got sick, knowing they wouldn't pull through. I have a number of families with babies that died before their first birthdays from the same family, living in these Courts. :'(
Thanks again Ruby, you're a star. ;D
Red :)
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Scroll these Anne !!
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hibernia/churches/pet/pet01.htm
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hibernia/churches/pet/pet001.htm
Annie :)
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Hi Annie thanks for the links,great photos of the inside
of ST Peters too,very good of you to remember.
all the best,Anne
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does anyone have any information of the address 4 st andrew court. liverpool in 1871. which district it was situated in relation to today.
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I had rellies in 12 Court, St Andrew Sreet and that was 1863. Lynn
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Hi Jansen - welcome to Rootschat - hope you enjoy being part of the forum and make lots of new friends.
The 1908 OS map of Liverpool shows a St Andrew Street off Brownlow Hill, quite close to the Metropolitan Cathedral (the RC one). It is likely that this is the right location as most of the courts were named for the streets they were in. The street is also showing on the current map of Liverpool but in a slightly different place, as is to be expected after 100 years.
I thought there might be a church called St Andrew's in the street but it is mainly abattoirs and part of a rope works. It would be interesting to know the occupation of your ancestor.
Good luck with your search.
Regards
Ruby
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Hi Ruby, would like to but in and say thank you for that info. I thought it was near the Brownlow Hill area, but wasn't certain, not got all the paper work handy so didn't want to comment. My G g grandfather had his occupation as a butcher, strange as his father was a shipwright. Thought he would of followed suit. Once again thanx for posting that info. Lynn x
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But in any time you like Lynn :-) Your gg grandfather must have had his job near to the abattoirs, not far to travel.
I must admit, I did think that St Andrew Street would be near to the old St Andrew's church in Rodney Street but on investigating no St Andrew Street showed up on the map in that area. There was another St Andrew's church in Renshaw street until the 1870s, but again no St Andrew Street. The only one I can find is the one off Brownlow Hill.
Interesting that your gg grandfather was a butcher as I have just found three generations of my lot who were butchers in Parkgate on the Wirral. Must have been a horrible job in those days.
Regards
Ruby
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Hi Ruby
Thank you for that. I went on this early on loads more seems to have been added.
It's one of my favourite sites of all time.
I strikes me as well that it's one of the best documentaries of Innercity housing for the eera in England. Iknow all cities have their own character, but the structure of courts and scale of living space and shared facilities must have been quite commomn and it would give anyone an insight as to what it was like.
I've never seen as many photo's ort especially as many that go behind the street front.
Thank you again.
I'd lost the link and I'll be returning.
Emms
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Hi Lynn
The OS plans available as reprints from Alan Godfrey Maps also include reprints of larger scale plans from the mid 19th Century that give the name of the courts.
No 12 Court was probably Pickering Court. The City Engineers followed the same system used for numbering houses, ie first court on the left was No. 1, so No. 12 Court was the sixth on the right. You can often confirm this by following the route the census enumerator took.
The plan you want is the 1848-64 Liverpool (London Road) issue. There are now eight plans in the older series - http://www.alangodfreymaps.co.uk/liverpool.htm
The 1841 Census usually named the court, but later ones usually used the number.
Ken
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thanks for the info on st andrew court. now another question. which was the nearest catholic church to this address? thanks. pat
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The nearest would have been St Nicholas RC Chapel. The address was probably Hawke Street. It was in a block (with a school) bounded by Copperas Hill, Hawke Street, Blake Street and St Warren Street.
4 St Andrews Court, would have also been known as 4 Hse No. 6 Court, St Andrews Street, ie the third court on the right from Copperas Hill. It was made up of ten houses.
ken
Ruby...St Andrews was on Renshaw Street/St Andrews Place. It is on the Liverpool (Mount Pleasant) plan.
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Hi,
St. Andrew Street is shown on this 1850s Map of Liverpool (http://www.leverpoole.co.uk/hackney-1855.shtm) on my website.
Click on the Kensington sheet (2nd row, 5th col) and scroll down to the bottom.
Tony
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Its is great to see this thread back in action. Tony and Ken, many thanks for the additional information about St Andrew's Street and Tony thanks for reminding me about your website - another great Liverpool website full of useful information.
Does anyone know where Parry's Court was? I think it was somewhere around Old Hall Street but cannot find it on any of my maps.
We're very lucky that Ged Fagan has put all these photographs of Liverpool together for us. Glasgow also has a website showing what housing was like in the 19th century http://www.mitchelllibrary.org/virtualmitchell/. The Glasgow site was put together by Glasgow City Council's Library Service which makes what Ged has done even more extraordinary.
Regards to all
Ruby
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Spookily, I was just thinking about this thread last week, but couldn't locate the site amongst my hundreds of favourites. :P So thanks for bringing it to my attention.
While we're on a roll, does anyone know where 13a Archer's Terrace, Smithdown Lane, USD would have been? (I know where Smithdown Lane is, but not Archer's Tce). And what does USD mean? (a guess is Urban Sanitary District ;D).
An ancestor was born here in 1891.
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The 1843 Street Directory has the following entries for Parry Court.
1843 Directory
Parry Court, 36, Banastre Street
Parry Court, 7, Bartlam Street
Parry Court, 34, Ormond Street
Parry Court, 11, Upper Pownall Street
I've uploaded a map of Ormond Street : 1864 Map showing Ormond Street, Liverpool (http://www.leverpoole.co.uk/1.4/2/ormond-street.jpg)
Tony
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Hi Ruskie
If you have access to the 1891 Census Archer Terrace is in RG 12/2989 Folios 38 and 39. It was at the top (Paddington) end of Smithdown Lane. You should get a house number in Smithdown Lane next to it to pinpoint it. I don't believe it was a separate street or court. Terraces are often just a short row of houses that are stepped back from the main house line, to make them look different. There is one such block on the 1906 Liverpool (Edge Hill) plan but it is not named. The census will also tell you how many families shared the terrace
Ken
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i have the death certificate of a relative that died at 25 royal street in 1881. would this have been a private address as he actually lived in lancaster street walton at the time. i see from todays maps that royal street still is in existence. also where would wyatt street have been in 1883. its no longer on any maps. pat
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Thanks for the explanation Ken. I don't have census access at the moment, but will examine the map to try to pinpoint Archer Tce.
On the 1871 census I have a family living at 3 in 2 Court, Fairclough (with a question mark) Lane, West Derby. This sounds like a more depressed area of housing. Are you familiar with a Fairclough Lane, and do you know of any maps which show the Lane or Court?
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OK disaster!
The "toxteth.net" site has closed!!!!!!
Sorry, that's slightly off topic, but how disappointing.
:'(
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Thank you very much for the Map, Tony. The family's children were all christened in St Paul's Church in St Paul's Square so this must be the right Parry's Court.
Ruby
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Hi Ruskie
Fairclough Lane went from Pembroke Place to Prescot Street. It started at the six-way junction at the end of Pembroke Place. It was just over the border in Low Hill, WD Union.
You need three of the 1906 reprinted plans - Central Liverpool, North and Newsham Park - to cover the whole length. It is difficult to tell if No2 court was there in 1906. You will have to look at the census. The 1848 - 64 (London Road) plan has the very end of the lane, which is not named. Alan Godfrey Maps haven't published the next sheet to it yet. They may not, as it is over the border. It is Sheet 26 in the 1:1056 Series you need.
If no one has it on here. You can order it from a stockist of OS Historical Maps for about £40 I believe. Or try LRO or the British Museum.
ken
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Thanks very much for your helpful suggestions. I'll see what I can uncover. ;D
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A lot of those old Courts were still around in the 1950's.
dark dreary places. The Life and Times of Kitty Wilkinson tell the storie of the families that lived in those places.
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Thank you everyone for your support and comments regarding the site and books. I notice St Andrews Street gets a mention and as if by magic, well pure coincidence actually, that area has the last photographs i've added to that page. I'll be down at the LRO the coming weekend and adding more next week with a bit of luck. If anyone has any special requests, i'll see what I can do but they only let you get 3 look ups per 20 mins out these days. Bah!!!
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Just to let you know that the site has been updated today and next week another 60+ photographs from the Liverpool records office archives will be online.
www.inacityliving.piczo.com
Thank you.
Ged.
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ohhh wow, got to go look in here more later!
thanks for the link!
Gaille
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Just revisted this site, and this time spent ages looking at the pubs. :P
Sooo many of them. :o
I just love this site. ;D
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Hi
Thank you!
I can see me spendin=g a whi;e on there!
Best wishes
Emms
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Just to let you know that the site has been updated today and next week another 60+ photographs from the Liverpool records office archives will be online.
www.inacityliving.piczo.com
Thank you.
Ged.
Ged ... you're a marvel !! :D :D
Thank you for all your hard work over the years on here ... it's terrific to see all the old " stompin' grounds " !! makes me homesick !! ::)
Annie :)
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Thank you all. The comments and feed back make it all worthwhile. If anyone has any look up requests for old street photographs, or even current ones for expats which I can take, i'm willing to oblige so let me know and if they're there i'll do my best to get them.
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hello Ged
you have taken us back into our past ,how we take things for granted .hot water ,warm beds , electricity . shoes on our feet food in our stomachs ,, I could go on and on ,these conditions should be shown in all school history classes to let children realise just how lucky they are. keep the pictures coming , you are doing a brilliant job
Doe
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Thank you for all the kind comments.
This may be deserving of a thread all of its own but here is one of my latest ventures, in collaboration with my mate Tony who is a wizard genealogist.
http://liverpoolremembrance.weebly.com/
.
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I just had a quick initial look at the site and it looks wonderful Ged. ;D It's going straight into my favourites!
And yes, I think it should definitely have a thread of it's own, which I think would give it more exposure. I suppose the military board would be the most suitable place for it.
I wish you every success with the new project.
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Thanks Ruskie.
Much appreciated. ;)
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Wow Ged, brilliant website! Have just spent an hour looking through and I've not finished yet!
I spotted my Dad's Uncle Albert's shop half way down the Blitz photos page 3. Richard Albert Moneypenny had a few shops around that area and this one, next to a pub on Netherfield Road went in the clearance of Everton. He'd lost the others in the blitz too.
My Mum's family lived in Great Mersey Street at the time of the war but after retreating to the air raid shelter one day they returned to find their house had disappeared and all that was left was a hole. My poor Grandad went a bit strange with the shock and started giving away things he found in the rubble to anyone passing, including my Auntie's much prized violin! They had to get him away until he calmed down because he was so distraught at losing everything he really lost it. My mum lost a new coat and shoes that she'd been saving for, for a very long time and hadn't had the chance to wear.
One thing I hadn't realised until I saw your photos was that the air raid shelters were in the middle of the streets! I presumed they were underground and I'm shocked how vulnerable they were. What was the benefit of them over staying in the houses or did they go underground inside?
This is such a precious site, I think you should encourage local school to use it in their history classes. Seeing the photos and names here has made it all so much more real to me. Thank you Ged.
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Thank you MissM and what a stroke of luck to see dad's Uncle's shop. It just encourages us to keep looking around as you never know what you may find. A lot of the Liverpool records office photos are still untapped but it is my quest to get as many out there to the public as possible.
My site www.inacityliving.piczo.com also has many
How terrible to hear of the affect this had on your grandad though and what a pity about your mum's possessions after saving so hard like that.
I'm sure Tony would love to use your story on the site.
Yes, the shelters were just built there and pics i've seen of them once removed do not show any evidence of these particular ones going underground like the back garden Anderson shelters. Blackstock Gardens tenements shelter took a direct hit killing up to 200 people, only the thick slab of concrete used as a roof was really the shelter. I expect if your house had a cellar, that'd be better but then again, Durning Road college was hit when the cellar was used and that was the single biggest loss of life of all of Liverpool's air raids I think.
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It's me again! Looking at the photos of bomb damage in Germany certainy makes you stop and think doesn't it?
I've also worked my way thrugh the memorials page and wondered if you'd like to include anything from my own Speke website or maybe just link to it.
http://www.spekeliverpool.co.uk/Memorial/Memorial.htm
There is also a hand written list of those who served in the Great War in my Church if you'd like me to photograph it. Just let me know ifyou're interested.
Lynne
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Ah Lynne. Now I know you, i've spoken to you before as you kindly allowed me to use a couple of the Speke pubs pics from your great site. The Dove and Olive branch and Pegasus demolition photos if I remember rightly, a good few years ago. Yes, I will pass this onto Tony right away.
Thanks,
Ged.
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Updated: http://liverpoolremembrance.weebly.com/
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Updated: http://liverpoolremembrance.weebly.com/
Thanks very much for letting us know! ;D
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It's looking absolutely fantastic Ged. You and your team should be very proud.
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Thank you Ruskie and Ann.
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Please can you tell me if this website is still active. I've tried to access http://www.inacityliving.piczo.com/ without success.
My specific interest is Copeland Court and the Park Lane area. My Gtx3 Grandfather Philip McNeill and his family were shown living there at the time of the 1841 census.
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Hi, I've just done a search for it & come up with this
https://inacityliving.blogspot.com/
Ursa