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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (West Riding) Lookup Requests => Yorkshire (West Riding) => England => Yorkshire (West Riding) Completed Requests => Topic started by: vcmt2008 on Wednesday 19 March 08 23:06 GMT (UK)
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Hello from the USA.
We're searching for information on the Brook Family of Elland about 1830
According to familysearch.org James Brook was born in Elland on 2 December 1832 to Joseph Brook and Mary Crossland.
Can anyone help with Joseph/Mary dates? If James was their first child, they would have married about 1831, but maybe as early as 1815 if he was a later child. I guess they could have been born anywhere from 1790 to 1815. Any suggestions on how to proceed?
Their son James emigrated to the USA with his 2nd wife, Mary Bumby, and children from both his marriages. (All children from 2nd marriage were born in Elland). We're also trying to identify the name of his first wife, mother of 2 boys (Albert born approx 1857 and Joseph bron approx 1861) and a girl.
Again, any suggestions would be appreciated on how I should proceed!
THANK YOU!
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Hi Vcmt
Welcome to Roots
1851
A possible for your family
James Brook head mar 57 cloth finnisher employing 4 men Yorks Elland
Mary " wife mar 52 "
Sarah " dau u/m 21 "
James " son u/m 19 cloth dressers son "
David " son u/m 17 pupil teacher "
Richard " son u/m 15 clother dressers son "
??? " son u/m 11 scholar "
Tom? " son u/m 8 " "
living at Elland with Greetland, Halifax, yorks
H0107/ 2299
folio 13
page 19
ricky
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1841
James Brook 45 cloth dyer born in county
Mary " 40 "
John " 20 "
Joseph " 15 "
Sarah " 13 "
James " 10 "
David " 7 "
Richard " 4 "
Jonothan " 9 months "
living at Southgate, Elland and Greetland, Halifax, Yorks
H0107/ 1299/ 3
folio 9
page 11
ricky
I couldnt see a james with parents Joseph and Mary for Elland ???
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Thanks, R
Our James would have been 19 years old in 1851, possibly married to his first wife...
Can you search the 1851 for his parents, Joseph Brook and Mary?
Family stories have them engaged in the wool industry.
Thanks so much!
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Hi Vcmt
I had a look on the IGI site and the info on there is a submitted record, which means it could be wrong. Only extracted records are reliable ???
ricky
PS
The James I gave you was 19 on the 1851 census, and the family were working in the cloth/woolen trade
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Ricky:
I'm new at family history and didn't consider that familysearch records might not be authenticated. uggg.
But for sure we know that son James was born on 2 December 1832 and died on 19 June 1914. ( The dates are carved on his headstone).
So the 1851 census you found could very well be his family, and he could be the 19 year old son. Is there anyway you could search the 1861 census and try to find him again? He'd have two sons, Albert (born about 1857) and Joseph (born about 1861), and a daughter.
Thanks for all your help!
Holly
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1861
has this family
James Brook head mar 29 cloth finnisher Yorks Elland
Hannah " wife mar 28 "
Emily " dau u/m 6 scholar "
Albert " son u/m 4 " "
Joe " son u/m 2 "
living at 70 Southgate, Elland Cum Greetland, Elland, Halifax, yorks
Rg9/ 3286
folio 59
page 23
ricky
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THANK YOU SO MUCH for helping me put another piece in our family puzzle! It literally brought tears to my eyes to read the 1861 Census.
Now we at least have names for his first wife and daughter. I don't believe divorce was an option then, so I assume wife Hannah died. I'll go check the BMD and see if I can find an entry...
Heartfelt thanks from the USA!
Holly
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1871
James Brook head mar 38 woolen cloth manufacture Yorks Elland
Mary " wife mar 31 Yorks Leeds
Albert " son u/m 14 wool piecer Yorks Elland
Joe " son u/m 12 " "
Crossland " son u/m 7 scholar "
Henry " son u/m 6 " "
Walter " son u/m 4 " "
Mary A " dau u/m 2 "
Kate " dau u/m 6 months "
Sarah H Bumby sis/in/law u/m 14 house work Yorks Huddersfield
Living at Huddersfield Road, Elland Cum Greetland, Elland, Halifax, yorks
Rg10/ 4403
folio 102
page 40
ricky
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Ricky:
His second wife's name is Mary Isabel Bumby, so the 1871 Census you posted totally makes sense. And his son is Crossland, perhaps pointing to his mother's maiden name, as indicated on familysearch.
James and family emigrated to the USA in 1873, and I've found his passenger log and he's on the Montana State Census of 1880.
One other puzzle piece we have regards the Bumby family:
familysearch shows that Mary had a sibling named W.A., but passenger logs of their immigration don't show that name. Is there any way you could check the 1861 Census for the Bumby Family? Father should be William Bumby with wife Sarah. I am not sure of the county, but I assume it's Yorkshire...
Thanks!
Holly
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Hi Holly
I found this family on the 1871 census
William Bumby head mar 52 coal merchant Yorks Woodhouse Leeds
Sarah " wife mar 51 "
William A " son u/m 21 draper shopman "
Walter " son u/m 19 coal mechants asst Yorks Huddersfield
Jane Ann " dau u/m 16 domestic servant "
John Meadley? nephew u/m 14 farm serv Yorks Howden?
Annie " niece u/m 12 scholar "
living at Lindley, Huddersfield, Yorks
Rg10/ 4380
folio 57
page 10 & 11
Will try and trace them back to see if this is the correct family
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Hi Holly
I think this is them on the 1861 transcribed as Burnley?
William Bumby head mar 42 warehouseman Yorks Leeds
Sarah " wife mar 41 "
Mary " dau u/m 21 "
John Hy " son u/m 16 office clerk "
Suttcliffe? " son u/m 14 warehouse boy "
Wm Alfred " son u/m 11 scholar "
Walter " son u/m 9 " Yorks Huddersfield
Jane Ann " dau u/m 6 " "
Sarah Ellen " dau u/m 4 "
living at Huddersfield, Yorks
Rg9/ 3263
folio 16
page 29
I think Sarah Ellen is the one from the 1871 with her married sister Mary, but on the 1871 has been written down as Sarah H, which could be Sarah Helen or Sarah Ellen, both sound the same
reagrds
ricky
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This absolutely fits! According to IGI Sutcliff is mother Sarah's maiden name, so I know we're working with the right family...
It's strange how an answer just leads to more questions... This is the first I've seen the name John Hy. And the age span between Mary and John Hy makes me think there might be children missing... I'm just starting to see the beauty of it all
Thanks once again for all your effort. I couldn't have done it without you!
Holly
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1851
William Bumby head mar 32 warehouseman Yorks Leeds
Sarah " wife mar 31 "
Mary " dau u/m 11 "
Joseph " son u/m 10 scholar "
John Hy? " son u/m 6 " "
Suttcliffe " son u/m 4 " "
Wm Alfred " son u/m 1 "
Emma Marsden? niece u/m 6 Yorks Bradford
living at South Street, Huddersfield, Yorks
H0 107/ 2295
folio 544
page 36 & 37
ricky
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Hi Holly
I have a sneaky feeling this might be Mary on the 1841, but I carnt prove it
John Sutcliffe ? 50 bath keeper? born in county
Grace " 55 "
Mary Bumby 1 "
Mary Marsden 20 female servant "
living at Leeds, Yorks
H0107/ 1346/5
folio 6
page 5
William and Sarah had a son called Sutcliffe?
ricky
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Ricky:
Seems taking in extra family members was popular with the Bumby family! I'm so happy you found a child between Mary and John. It plugs another gap...
General question about the Census maybe you can clear up: I understand that the Census doesn't have to list occupations, ages, prior to a certain year. Do you know which year? Also, how far back does the Census go? It is such a great tool! While it may not be exact, I'm getting the impression it may be more reliable than IGI. Both together certainly seem create a fuller picture.
Thanks!
Holly
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Hi Holly
The census's we have run from 1841 to 1901 at the moment.
The 1841 dont give what relationship is in the household.Most census's give the age and occupations, but are not always written down.
I think there are some earlier census's, but have never seen them, and I dont think they tell alot. But someone else might know different ;D ;D. I think most of us on here use different sites to do lookups, IGI is okay as long as its an extracted record. If its not it has ro be treated with caution.
ricky
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Thanks for the info.
How do people go about looking up data pre-1841? I know in my State that death certificates weren't issued pre-1900, so it's a matter of going to graveyards and doing a lot of legwork to find dates. Is it the same there?
Also, for our relatives who died in the Elland area, do you know the names of a few cemeteries where they might be buried? Or maybe the parish where we could locate some records... Or do you recommend paying for certificates from the GRO?
WOW!
So many questions about the 1841 Census!
Mary Bumby IS the daughter of Sarah (Sutcliff according to IGI) Bumby and William Bumby, so Grace and John Sutcliffe are very likely her maternal grandparents.
It lists Mary Marsden as a "family servant," but the 1851 Census shows that Sarah Bumby and William Bumby have taken in a niece named Emma Marsden. So perhaps the 1841 Mary Marsden is a niece of Grace and John, rather than a paid servant.
Holly
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Hi Holly
Have seen on several census's where a relative is a servant in another relatives household. As for pre 1841 census, I dont know alot about them, so carnt comment on that. As for the Elland area of Yorkshire I carnt help much with that as I dont know the area. You could always do another posting asking what churches or graveyards are in that area. I only by certificates when I have to, but have never bought any from the GRO, I always get them from the local records office of the area that I need for my relations. But I think a lot of them on here get them from the GRO.
You will find on here if you ask a question, there will always be someone out there with an answer.
ricky
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Hi Holly
Have you ever used this site
http://www.genuki.org.uk/
its always worth alook for areas in this country
ricky
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Thanks for all the research and info., Ricky.
It's 8 p.m. here, and the huband is demanding dinner. Not too loudly, yet, as he knows I'm working on his family!
But to keep the peace, I'm signing off.
Over and Out,
Holly
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According to familysearch.org James Brook was born in Elland on 2 December 1832 to Joseph Brook and Mary Crossland.
Can anyone help with Joseph/Mary dates? If James was their first child, they would have married about 1831, but maybe as early as 1815 if he was a later child. I guess they could have been born anywhere from 1790 to 1815. Any suggestions on how to proceed?
Have you seen this marriage?
James BROOKE m Mary CROSSLAND @ Halifax, Yorkshire on 1 July 1818 (extracted on the IGI)
~ Claire
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Just joined RootsChat and discovered the family I am looking into has been discussed thoroughly - but in 2008 the thread was completed. Don't know if I can open it up ?? James Brook emigrated with his second wife's family (Mary Bumby) to Montana in 1873. His grandson Albert Brook returned to England in 1890 with three children. One of Albert's sons, Francis Arthur Brook, married by great aunt Clara Bateman.
I am really interested in understanding how the Brook and Bumby families (I count 16 adults and 5 children under 10) travelled to Montana (sea and overland), what sort of life they would have led, why Albert and family returned to England, and how the rest of the family that stayed in US fared thereafter.
Lots more questions but that is enough for starters!
Thanks in anticipation of a lovely conversation to follow ...
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Hi, Judy. I believe the "Completed" on this thread indicates that the (my) original question was answered. I'm Holly, Grant's wife. I'm glad you found me on RootsChat!
Grant is gathering info to respond to your email--I'll work on him to do it sooner than later.
Gold was discovered in Alder Gulch, Montana in 1863. We became a state in 1889. 1873 would have been a very exciting but very difficult time to settle here--certainly not for the faint of heart. But still we have lots of unanswered questions. Hopefully we can shed light on the American side, and you can shed light on the UK side!
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Holly ... lovely to hear from you and it was a bit of a surprise that you knew who I was! I am not putting pressure on Grant to answer my questions! I am looking into the Elland origins of the Brook family. It would be fascinating to read the correspondence between Montana and UK.
Just one other question for now ... was James and following generations farmers or involved in the gold rush or some other occupation? According to the 1871 census he was a mill owner in Elland just before the families emigrated to US. Seems he was prepared to change everything for the move!
I have time to spare being at home, so any questions - just ask and I will do the local research! (Just joined the Calderdale FHS)
Thanks JudyT