RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Boongie Pam on Wednesday 19 March 08 11:58 GMT (UK)
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Hiya,
Found this very interesting article:
http://personal.linkline.com/xymox/fraud/fraud223.htm
I'm working on my CARRUTHERS line and I know ancient lineages exist for this ancient family. There is a great temptation when you have run out of records to look at Victorian lineages.
The article above I think gives a good warning, especially for Americans. You get what you pay for. If you wanted a seat on the Mayflower then Mr Anjou could oblige :)
So for anyone new to FH research, be warned :) Sometimes you can be stuck for years and other trees aren't the answer unless fully sourced and can be verified.
The Anjou lineages are on the IGI. SO look around for posts here on RC about how, why and when to use the IGI reliably.
Pam
:)
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I agree with you 100% Pam,
http://www.familychronicle.com/Fraudulent.html
is another intersting article regarding Anjou (and others) and should be taken as a salutory lesson to be cautious when dealing with records and other trees.
As far as it goes "You get what you pay for." , Mr Anjou's services were reputed to be very expensive and made him moderately wealthy which just goes to show that even money can't buy accuracy.
So far records "credit" Mr Anjou with 103 lineages held on file at the IGI but as those articles show they are not the only ones and perhaps in a smaller way, as mentioned on a number of other threads here in Rootschat, many people who simply accept everything they are told or given, perpetuate some of these falsehoods
"Trust nothing and check everything" .... a tad cynical perhaps but that way I at least know the mistakes are all mine ;)
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This sentence seems to be a good one to follow
If you as a writer or a poster to the internet simply accepts everything that is written and then republish it without proving the sources, you too are guilty of continuing the Hoax. It is your responsibility to prove everything you post for anyone else to view
http://personal.linkline.com/xymox/fraud/hoax.htm
Trish
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As soon as something becomes popular, fraudsters rush to take advantage of gullible people. I'm sure genealogy is no different!
MarieC (who is trying to do her own research, and check everything!)
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Pam,
Thanks very much for posting this fascinating article.
We have enough problems with brick walls and certainly
don't need to encounter those mentioned.
My pile of certificates grows.
Kathleen
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HI boongie...if you're around, there's a lady in rootschat who is desparate to talk to you. Hope to see you in the room soon..thanks..:D
Bally
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Hello Pam,
It's not just fraudulent lineages that are the problem?
Unsourced material is surely as problematical, or at least a variation on the same theme?
Interesting that you should post along these lines just now.
Why? Well, because I was thinking about this general problem the other day.
So I Googled.
There's quite an interesting article (not recent - but truth doesn't diminish solely due to the passage of time :) )
How to Cite Sources by John Wylie
at
http://www.genealogy.com/19_wylie.html
The whole article is worth reading - it's not just 'whether to' (surely a no-brainer) but also 'how to'.
A couple of salient points made by Lt Col Wylie are:
" ... Unless you tell others where you obtained your material, your work is only opinion and weak opinion at that. ... Sources establish credibility. That is, if we fail to cite sources, our friends and relatives may be charitably interested, but others will consider our work a waste of time or, at best, a clue. .. . "
Good and succinct comments.
Another good comment which was posted by a respected RootsChatter reads as follows (I don't give the source in case of embarrassing the poster but will freely provide it):
{The etiquette of an online forum is to} "give solid and reliable replies, offer good information and get good information in return and so it goes. Unfortunately, if these standards aren't applied in an online forum, it is there for all to see and we end up leaving a legacy of unsourced information for future users of Rootschat to stumble upon."
We can all make mistakes - but we should all try to be very careful indeed.
Regards,
JAP
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Thanks for that, JAP. Excellent article! We should probably all print it out and have it beside us as we work...
MarieC
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Hi Marie C,
There are probably lots of more up-to-date references on the "how to" (for instance, I have 'Evidence' by Elizabeth Shown Mills) but the principles of 'why" don't change one whit ;D
JAP
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Very timely comment JAP. I have, just this morning, had to set somebody straight about lineage they have attributed to one of my ancestors. They had taken a great leap of faith and attributed parents to the ancestor without a shred of evidence! It was very awkward to try to set the person right without sounding like a know-it-all. I wonder if I will hear back....probably not, because although she couldn't prove her claims, she was most insistent about them!
And I have often pondered the likelihood of obtaining proof that one is directly related to someone far back in history. It seems that a lot of people claim so. If records only began sketchily around 1500's (am I correct on that? - seems about right from what I recall) then how is it possible to say one is related to someone before that date?
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I see he produced a lineage for my main surname interest - Child - I'd be interested to know what it's about.
I don't think it's changed much, I know of one website which makes the most amazing unbelievable links ... on the lines of, if you lived in Olde England long long ago and your name was was William and you lived in London in 1600 then a William who lived in county Hereford in 1620 was obviously your son - because you both have the same Christian name ::)
Carole
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One of the problems with the Anjou forgeries is that they are well sourced so having sources listed is no guarantee.
Indeed the overabundance of source material is given as one way to spot an Anjou genealogy. and if there were no sources he is believed to have created them which I suppose is one way to get through those brick walls ::)
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I can't resist posting this extract from the website I mentioned .... hopefully Mr Anjou did a better job! ;D :
Robert L’Enfant was Provost (officer in charge) of Shrewsbury, Salop Co., England during the reign of Henry III, 1509-1542. This man signed Robert L’Enfant as a witness and Robert LeChilde on other documents. This could be the same Robert that received a legacy from Sir Robert Cook, near Bury, Suffolk Co., England in 1587. These men are most likely descendants of 1353 Thomas LeChilde of Northwick, Worcester County, England.
Carole
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These men are most likely descendants of 1353 Thomas LeChilde of Northwick, Worcester County, England.
Nice one ::)
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There are different ways to look at this problem and the most sensible way is...
Caveat emptor
Except you aren't (usually) buying of course. If you find sourced or unsourced secondary information take the hints they can give you, but don't take the content.
Find your stones (primary information) to turn; wills, medal records, hospital records, school records, BMD Certs, kirk sessions, newspapers, criminal records, union news letters, parish records, armed forces records, merchant navy records, poetry (yes one of my tree is in a poem :) ) and many many more.
For example with unsourced finds. I have found numerous websites/posts/blogs that link to my family with info I could find nowhere. But deeper lateral searching finally validated what they had, sometimes MI, sometimes newspapers - sometimes I also disproved their assumptions.
The right way is to cite sources.
But if you don't it isn't punishable by hanging or even time in the stocks.
It is the combination of written evidence that gives you faith that you have a representation of the "true" history of your family. The truth being what is written, so really the fun is in finding your own source.
Pam
:)
Cheers,
Pam
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Carole
Off Topic I see you have a photo of someone with some "old siamese, as a siamese breeder (here in NZ) I am quite interested in who these little darlings are.
Regards
Dyan
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Carole
Off Topic I see you have a photo of someone with some "old siamese, as a siamese breeder (here in NZ) I am quite interested in who these little darlings are.
Regards
Dyan
She's Mrs Robert Locke, one of the first American breeders with Calif, Siam and Bangkok. I don't breed but live with two, what I'd call classic, Siamese - a seal and blue point :)
Carole