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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: wildgoose on Saturday 15 March 08 20:27 GMT (UK)

Title: MCMONAGLE
Post by: wildgoose on Saturday 15 March 08 20:27 GMT (UK)
Can anyone help me track down the couple below on the 1901 Census:

1895 Marriage James MCMONAGLE & Mary TOLAN, HUTCHESONTOWN, GLASGOW, LANARK

Thanks ;D
Title: Re: MCMONAGLE
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 15 March 08 20:36 GMT (UK)
Do you know either of their birthplaces?  How old were they when they married

Nothing is coming up at the moment but they could be mis-transcribed
Title: Re: MCMONAGLE
Post by: wildgoose on Saturday 15 March 08 20:51 GMT (UK)
at the moment nothing...but will have a bit more when I get the marriage certificate. The surname, however, may well be a problem... :-\
Title: Re: MCMONAGLE
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 15 March 08 21:09 GMT (UK)
Hi Wilgoose and Carol

There are two James McM*n*gl*  :P showing on SP with a Mary in the household. This is one of them:

James McMunagle 50, Shipyard Lab, b. Ireland
Mary McMunagle    48, b. Ireland
Joseph McMunagle 8, son, b. Glasgow
John McMunagle    6, son, b. Glasgow
James McMunagle 3, son, b. Glasgow
Bernard McMunagle 8 mo, son, b. Glasgow

Address: 10 Ingram St, Govan

Either mum's age is wrong or she was still having babies at a fair age! Either way, if your couple only married in 1895, these can't be them one would think.

The other James is 32 and in Calderhead. Now to find him...

Monica  :)
Title: Re: MCMONAGLE
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 15 March 08 21:18 GMT (UK)
Well, there is a Mary in the household, but it's a daughter. Wife is called Sophia:

James McMonagle 32, Furmanman, b. Ireland
Sophia McMonagle 26, b. Ireland
Willie McMonagle 5, b. Glasgow
Annie McMonagle 3, b. Uddingston, Lanark
Mary McMonagle    1, b. Hartwood, Lanark

Address: 25 Jordan Terr, Calderhead

Wildgoose, you will need to look at the MC amongst other things to confirm ages for James and Mary.

Monica

Title: MCMONAGLE
Post by: wildgoose on Saturday 15 March 08 23:10 GMT (UK)
The details from the mc are: 

Marriage cert. No.87
1895, May 11th, St. Francis Chapel, Glasgow
banns.Roman Catholic Church
sign.James McMONAGLE, Tramway cab driver, bach., 40, b.1855
ures.113 Crown St., Glasgow
f.James McMONAGLE, Farmer, decd.
m.Ann McMONAGLE, ms GALLACHER
sign.Mary TOLAN, her X mark, Marine? store worker, spin., 35, b.1860
wit.Edwin WITSKER
Ures. 113 Crown St., Glasgow
f.John TOLAN, Labourer, decd.
m.Mary TOLAN, ms STEEL, decd.
min.Edwin WITSKER, RCC
wits. Manus McMONAGLE & Mary DEVLIN
reg.1895, May 17th, Glasgow

so what now :-X
Title: Re: MCMONAGLE
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 15 March 08 23:26 GMT (UK)
Were either showing as married before?

This look a likely entry for Mary's death, age/ birth year also out:

1944   MCMONAGLE   MARY       WRIGHT TOLAN MCDONALD   F   68   GORBALS   GLASGOW CITY/LANARK   644/15 0303   

What children if any are you certain about?

Monica
Title: Re: MCMONAGLE
Post by: wildgoose on Saturday 15 March 08 23:34 GMT (UK)
I haven't found anything other than what is on the mc.  Do you think she was married before? but if that's her dc then her age should be 84?
Title: Re: MCMONAGLE
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 15 March 08 23:36 GMT (UK)
It's just the number of surnames showing on this death entry:

Tolan - her maiden name
Wright - ?
McDonald - ?

Her mother's maiden name looks to be Steel.

 ???
Title: Re: MCMONAGLE
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 15 March 08 23:41 GMT (UK)
This looks like James in 1891 from SP...now to find him on the other index...

1891   MCMUNOGLE   JAMES   M   35   HUTCHESONTOWN   GLASGOW/LANARK   644/11 005/11 013
Title: Re: MCMONAGLE
Post by: wildgoose on Saturday 15 March 08 23:41 GMT (UK)
that ties in with the mc :-\
Title: Re: MCMONAGLE
Post by: CaroleW on Saturday 15 March 08 23:45 GMT (UK)
Quote
Were either showing as married before?

Marriage entry shows James as bachelor
Mary's fathers name was Tolan so no previous marriage for her

James should be on the 1861 census with parents James & Ann as should Mary with parents John & Mary

Title: Re: MCMONAGLE
Post by: MonicaL on Saturday 15 March 08 23:48 GMT (UK)
This is the matching entry I think from the 1891 SP entry:

Joseph Lee 36, plumber, b. Greenock
Jessie Lee 48, wife
James McMunogle 35, visitor, seaman unemployed, b. Greenock

Address: 121 Crown St, Glagow Govan (Hutchesontown)

Now where are we :P

Let see if we can find James at home with matching parents from the MC....
Title: Re: MCMONAGLE
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 16 March 08 00:03 GMT (UK)
 ??? However from the 1881 Census index on SP, he looks to be the son of Charles. At home in Greenock with Charles, a fishmonger is a James, 24 and sister Mary all showing as born in Greenock.

From SP, only 3 more entries show (with previous wildcards) and none are him.

If he is from Ireland, he looks to have come over after the 1891 census. Can't see him beforehand. Nor is there a death showing for his mother in Scotland.
Title: Re: MCMONAGLE
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 16 March 08 00:13 GMT (UK)
Going round in a full circle  ::) back to that first household I posted for 1901

James McMunagle 50, Shipyard Lab, b. Ireland
Mary McMunagle    48, b. Ireland
Joseph McMunagle 8, son, b. Glasgow
John McMunagle    6, son, b. Glasgow*
James McMunagle 3, son, b. Glasgow
Bernard McMunagle 8 mo, son, b. Glasgow

Address: 10 Ingram St, Govan

I think this is his birth entry:

1895   MCMONAGLE   JOHN   M   HUTCHESONTOWN   GLASGOW CITY/LANARK   644/11 1052

He was born in April, just before the parents' marriage in May. Father James Van Driver and Mary Tolan, marine store worker. Father James also signed the register.

Wildgoose, what was the address(es) showing on the MC for James and Mary?
Title: Re: MCMONAGLE
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 16 March 08 00:21 GMT (UK)
Mary Tolan's death:

1st husband James Wright - Marine Engineer
2nd husband James McMonagle - Horse Cart Driver
3rd husband John McDonald - Iron Dresser

Strangely (never seen this before) the section on the DC for parents' info is taken up with the above info, no details on parents. Death reported by a daughter.

Monica
Title: Re: MCMONAGLE
Post by: wildgoose on Sunday 16 March 08 00:26 GMT (UK)
The 1944 dc is Mary's daur. also called Mary.  Mary snr only married twice er daur. married the McDONALD

Death cert. No.303
Mary McDONALD, wid. John McDONALD, Iron dresser
d.1944, Oct 13th, 8 Ballater St., Glasgow, age 68
f. not recd.
m.Mary TOLAN, Marine store worker, decd.
(afterwards married to 1st James WRIGHT, Marine Engineer,
2nd James McMONAGLE, Horse cart driver)
cod.Hypostatic congestion of lungs
inf.Annie BERWICK, daur.
Reg.1944, Oct 14th, Glasgow
Title: Re: MCMONAGLE
Post by: wildgoose on Sunday 16 March 08 00:31 GMT (UK)
address was 113 Crown St., Glasgow
Going round in a full circle  ::) back to that first household I posted for 1901

James McMunagle 50, Shipyard Lab, b. Ireland
Mary McMunagle    48, b. Ireland
Joseph McMunagle 8, son, b. Glasgow
John McMunagle    6, son, b. Glasgow*
James McMunagle 3, son, b. Glasgow
Bernard McMunagle 8 mo, son, b. Glasgow

Address: 10 Ingram St, Govan

I think this is his birth entry:

1895   MCMONAGLE   JOHN   M   HUTCHESONTOWN   GLASGOW CITY/LANARK   644/11 1052

He was born in April, just before the parents' marriage in May. Father James Van Driver and Mary Tolan, marine store worker. Father James also signed the register.

Wildgoose, what was the address(es) showing on the MC for James and Mary?
Title: Re: MCMONAGLE
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 16 March 08 00:35 GMT (UK)
Ahh...I'm with you, I think  ::) Confusing cert.

So daughter Mary b. 1876c. Who was the father, is this from the James Wright/Mary Tolan marriage? So certainly Mary Tolan had to be much older than 35 at the time of her marriage to James McMonagle in 1895.

Do we have the right entry for them in 1901 therefore?
Title: Re: MCMONAGLE
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 16 March 08 00:37 GMT (UK)
Sorry wildgoose, your post crossed over.

We certainly seem to have the right entry. The address showing for the birth of John in 1895 is also 113 Crown Street. Snap  ;D
Title: Re: MCMONAGLE
Post by: wildgoose on Sunday 16 March 08 00:39 GMT (UK)
The dc is very confusing as it doesn't name Mary's father, however, the 1901 entry would seem to be correct.  May be worth trying to find a TOLAN WRIGHT marriage :-\ or a bc for Mary jnr.  Could be that neither men were her dad... :o
Title: Re: MCMONAGLE
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 16 March 08 00:46 GMT (UK)
Nothing showing unfortunately. Marriage could have been in Ireland.

Can't see a marriage for daughter Mary to John McDonald under a maiden name of T*l*n or Wright either.
Title: Re: MCMONAGLE
Post by: MonicaL on Sunday 16 March 08 01:09 GMT (UK)
Looks like daughter's marriage may also have taken place in Ireland:

John McDonald    39, iron dresser, b. Ireland
Mary McDonald    29, b. Ireland
James McDonald    5, b. Govan
Margaret McDonald 3, b. Govan
Joseph Clarke    23, lodger
John Cowell    20, lodger

Address: 5 Hamilton St, Govan

Title: Re: MCMONAGLE
Post by: CC on Wednesday 19 March 08 18:49 GMT (UK)
Hi.....I have a bit of a interest in the McMonagle's and the various spellings....One of my relatives Alexander McKellar married Susan McMonagle in 1863 Greenock, Susan was born abt 1843 Greenock her parents were Manus(Manur) McManigal and Susan Brown both born Ireland.... Susans siblings were Charles, James, Manus(Manur) Mary, Peter as of the 1841 census....
Any links?
Cheers
Carol
Title: MCMONAGLE
Post by: wildgoose on Wednesday 19 March 08 20:14 GMT (UK)
I haven't found him on a Census but take a look at the  details on James marriage cert. ;D

Marriage cert. No.87
1895, May 11th, St. Francis Chapel, Glasgow
banns.Roman Catholic Church
sign.James McMONAGLE, Tramway cab driver, bach., 40, b.1855
ures.113 Crown St., Glasgow
f.James McMONAGLE, Farmer, decd.
m.Ann McMONAGLE, ms GALLACHER
sign.Mary TOLAN, her X mark, Marine? store worker, spin., 35, b.1860
wit.Edwin WITSKER
Ures. 113 Crown St., Glasgow
f.John TOLAN, Labourer, decd.
m.Mary TOLAN, ms STEEL, decd.
min.Edwin WITSKER, RCC
wits. Manus McMONAGLE & Mary DEVLIN
reg.1895, May 17th, Glasgow

There's got to be a connection don't you think...Do you know whereabouts in Ireland ???
Title: Re: MCMONAGLE
Post by: CC on Wednesday 19 March 08 22:47 GMT (UK)
HI... I think its more than possible that there is a connection.....On the Inverclyde.gov.uk site there are a few death notices one is Elizabeth Stewart wife of Charles McMonagle died  Sept 3 1852 Knock County Mayo...... plus a few others with some different spellings... Your James could be the son of James b about 1834 Greenock there is a death notice for James McMunigale fishmonger  29 Shaw St Greenock on Aug 25 1868.....just a little bit more searching to do.. ..... Susan McMonagle died 1904 in Lanarkshire.....
Cheers
Carol
Title: Re: MCMONAGLE
Post by: wildgoose on Wednesday 19 March 08 23:32 GMT (UK)
many thanks ???
Title: Re: MCMONAGLE
Post by: wildgoose on Wednesday 19 March 08 23:37 GMT (UK)
This is my James below

1901 Census: 10 Ingram St, Govan
James McMunagle 50, Shipyard Lab, b. Ireland
Mary McMunagle    48, b. Ireland
Joseph McMunagle 8, son, b. Glasgow
John McMunagle    6, son, b. Glasgow*
James McMunagle 3, son, b. Glasgow
Bernard McMunagle 8 mo, son, b. Glasgow
Title: Re: MCMONAGLE
Post by: CC on Thursday 20 March 08 13:04 GMT (UK)
HI.....In the 1851 census Susan is living with her sister Mary and her husband David McLean at 1 Broad Close Greenock...1861 I still have some searching to do I think I found her but not sure....1871 Susan and her husband Alexander McKellar were at 106 West St Backland Greenock..1881 they were at 97 Houston St Kinning Park, Glasgow.... 1891 114 Macher St Plantation, Glasgow... 1901 114 MacLean St Plantation, Glasgow....
Susan and Alexander had only one child Julia who sadly died as a infant.....I have a few more bits but not sure of it....
Cheers
Carol
Title: Re: MCMONAGLE
Post by: CC on Thursday 20 March 08 13:45 GMT (UK)
HI
I have found Susan in the 1861 census....
Kings Land Longwill Close  Greenock
Charles Muingale Head  occ fish merchant b  1833 Greeonck
Elizabeth b 1825 Paisley
Elizabeth -step daughter? b 1847 Greenock
Ellen - step daughter? b 1850 Greenock
James son b 1856 Greenock
Manne son b 1853 Greenock
Mary daug b 1859 Greenock
Susan daug b 1855 Greenock
Susan -step-daughter? b 1845 Greenock

Do you have James McMonagle and Ann Gallacher marriage reg?
cheers
Carol
Title: MCMONAGLE
Post by: wildgoose on Thursday 20 March 08 13:48 GMT (UK)
No I haven't I only have the mc of James snr. & mary tolan :-[