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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Glamorganshire => Topic started by: pippylong on Thursday 13 March 08 12:57 GMT (UK)
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Hi, I'm new and have been researching my family tree for about a year. Does anyone have any information on the Irish in Cardiff? many thanks
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Where to start ? There are hundreds of families with Irish ancestors after the emigration of the Irish to work in the docks steel and coalindustries in S wales in the mid 1800s
I am a Cardiff "Sullivan" but cannot trace my Irish roots for lack of precise information proir to 1861.
If you Google "Mary Sullivan" you will find she has a major input ti Irish families in Cardiff who settled in the Newtown and Adamsdown area of the old city.
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As Scrumhalf has mentioned there were so many Irish that settled in Cardiff- I researched Driscoll/O'Driscoll and Clifford families from County Cork that both went to Cardiff. Still haven't an exact place in Cork for either family but went the Driscolls went to U.S. the children born in Wales were listed in U.S. census as born in 'Cardiff, Ireland' which shows they that although they were born in Cardiff they still considered themselves Irish.
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Does anyone know if the Irish might have stopped off in Wales to live and work for a while before carrying on to London?
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Entirely possible. Think that perhaps Cardiff was a major entry point for people from Cork and that part of Ireland (many people maybe just settled wherever the boats landed and then more relatives and neighbours arrived and settled near them.
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Yes. me too!
Lots of Irish ancestors in South Wales!
That's one of the reasons for the founding of the RC church in Treforest ~ now St Dyfrigs.
My counties definitely include Cork, and possibly Wexford, Waterford & Killarney.
There are some very interesting items in 'The Green Dragon: a magazine from the Irish community in Cardiff, Wales':
http://www.ballinagree.freeservers.com/gdragon.html
Irish Communities in Cardiff, 1841 - 1891
http://www.ballinagree.freeservers.com/ircomscard.html
Cardiff and the Great Famine, Part 1.
http://www.ballinagree.freeservers.com/cargfamine.html
Cardiff and the Great Famine, Part 2.
http://www.ballinagree.freeservers.com/cargfamine2.html
The Irish are in Town: Port Talbot. Part 1
http://www.ballinagree.freeservers.com/ptalbot.html
The Irish are in Town: Port Talbot. Part 2
http://www.ballinagree.freeservers.com/ptalbot2.html
Cardiff: An Incomplete History of an Irish Family
http://www.ballinagree.freeservers.com/sweeneyfam.html
The Irish in Cardiff
http://www.ballinagree.freeservers.com/irincard.html
The Irish Famine in Skibbereen and Cardiff.
http://www.ballinagree.freeservers.com/cardskibb.html
‘Little Ireland’-R.I.P.
http://www.ballinagree.freeservers.com/litirl.html
Irish Immigration and Integration in Newport in the Nineteenth Century
http://www.ballinagree.freeservers.com/newport.html
Wales and Ireland in the Late Nineteenth Century
http://www.ballinagree.freeservers.com/walesirl.html
O’Leary, Paul. Immigration and Integration: The Irish in Wales, 1798 – 1922.
http://www.ballinagree.freeservers.com/irinwales.html
Also:
Book Review
Irish Migrants in Modern Wales ~ O'Leary, Paul, editor
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/hfs.cgi/00/163757.ctl
A Brief History of Newtown
http://www.newtown-cardiff.org.uk/page1.htm
http://www.newtown-cardiff.org.uk/oldguest.htm
http://www.newtown-cardiff.org.uk/page6.htm
Real Cardiff ~ Newtown ~ 'the vanished local little Ireland'
http://www.peterfinch.co.uk/newtown.htm
What drove the Irish to settle in Wales, and how did they fare?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/history/sites/migration/pages/ireland.shtml
There is an Irish Famine Memorial in Cathays Cemetery
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Yes the Irish did pass hrough wales when looking for my F/Tree located the Madden family first in Pembroke census occupation given as beggars/fruit sellers 10years later the same family appeared in London still as Fruit sellers.
Many of the Irish actually came to Wales as "ballast" in the holds of the now empty cargo boats returning to Wales after carrying farming and building produce to Ireland. Many were dumped overboard to swim ashore, so no official documents were shown but fee paying cargo to the sea captains.
Merthyr also has a huge Irish community working in the Dowlais Iron & Steel works
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Tricia 2 What a great web site
www.ballingtree.freeserve.com
A wealth of Irish/Welsh ancestrial information.
I have ancestors at Merthyr cardiff and aberavon so it made fascinating reading Thank you for yyour research
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Hi Scrumhalf ~ yes, I was really pleased when I first found it ~ and I did have trouble finding it again, so it's best to bookmark it.
I also had Irish ancestors in Dowlais / Merthyr.
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... the children born in Wales were listed in U.S. census as born in 'Cardiff, Ireland' ...
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That's interesting!
they still considered themselves Irish.
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Yes, in my family they considered themselves to be Irish for a number of generations. Some still do!
I researched Driscoll/O'Driscoll
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I think that my family were related to Driscolls by marriage.
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Brief outline of Driscolls I was researching:
James Driscoll (c1825 Ireland-?) m.(1867 Cardiff, Wales) Mary Keefe (c1829 Ireland-?). Known children:
1. Johanna/Anne O'Driscoll (1851 Cardiff-1933 N.Y.) m. Michael McCoy.
2. Timothy (c1854 Cardiff) m. Hester Brown.
3. Ellen/Nellie Driscoll (1859 Cardiff-1914 Connecticut) m. George Clifford.
4. Mary Driscoll (c1861 Cardiff).
5. Daniel J. Driscoll (1865 Cardiff-1945 Connecticut) m. Esther Martell.
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There are Keefes/ O'keefes in my ancestry, but I only know some of them.
My gt grandmother was Julia Anne and she had sisters Mary & Katy and a brother Dennis. Dennis O'Keefe went to Philadelphia.
I think that Mary & Katy may have gone to America too.
One of them certainly did.
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thanks Tricia_2 that was great. It gives a good insight to the various Irish in the area.
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Hi Scrumhalf, I'm researching the Darney's in Cardiff who came from Ireland late 1850's from what I believe to be the Townland of Kilcolta in the Parish of Templebreedy in the county of Cork. This information I've had from the Griffiths Valuation in Ireland 1848-1864. If you sign up (free) to myirishancestry.com you can search for free. There is also a memorial to the victims of the Great Famine in Ireland in Cathays Cemetery which I've visited. It felt quite strange to be next to a Celtic Cross which was erected to remember families of this event that included mine.
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this is great! been trying to sort out my Irish ancestors for ages and glad i found this!
i am from the sullivans in swansea~my great x 4 grandparents, both Irish, james and mary and their 8 children. one catherine married Irishman Patrick Flavin/Flahavan and they brought up their family of 6 in cardiff. their child margaret married another Irishman James Gaul and they brought up their family of 10 in swansea.
the children i have so far traced seems to have married into Welsh families and remained in Swansea/Cardiff.
occupations~miners, iron weighers etc
if this rings any bells with anyone i would love to hear from you
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Since the thread has re-opened, I'll throw my lot in!
One branch of my family (Whitty), came from Wexford to South Wales - it looks like three brothers (out of six) came here. One (my gt gt grandfather) settled in Maesteg, one moved to Slough (found about two years ago via the Whitty Clan website), and one seems to have remained in Cardiff, although all contact has been lost with them - he appears to have had daughters as they attended my gt gt grandfather funeral in the 60's, but that's literally all I know!
So in answer to a previous query on this thread, families could easily have stopped in Wales before moving onto London.
Ps, if anyone comes across Whitty births or deaths registered in Cardiff prior to 1960 (and after 1912!), feel free to let me know - I've given up at this point with my Irish lot and am concentrating on the Welsh one's ;)
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Hi everyone! I'm a beginner too.
I have Irish ancestors in Cardiff too (Darney and Lyons) . I think they might be the same as yours Pippylong. :)
More and more Irish info is online now - have you seen The Irish History Foundation website? (http://www.irish-roots.ie/pay-per-view.asp) there isn't anything for South Cork yet though and I think that's what we need for Kilcolta/Templebreedy. As far as I can remember the records for Kilcolta would be covered in the Carrigaline area - but I can't find the right folder to check ???
I really need help organising all my info, I'm constantly going over the same things and not getting anywhere.
Thanks very much for all those links Tricia. Very interesting.
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I've been researching my family name Ryan who you think would have come over directly from Ireland. However, I discovered that they actually came to Cardiff by way of Limehouse in the East End of London.
We've got Driscolls, Mahoneys and Foleys in our lot.
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Hi lillylaces :),
Darney and Lyons are in my tree so I reckon they are the same as yours. It's a shame about the lack of info for Kilcolta/Templebreddy. My cousins and I are both trying to find them there but keep hitting a brick wall (apart from the Griffith Valuation info but we cannot be sure he is our Bartholomew!). I suppose when I have the time to fully concentrate on that branch i will venture to Cork and do a little digging. How far have you got with the Lyons side? the Darneys are my particular area of interest, we could swap info if you like, many thanks :)
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Hello Pippylong! That's great news you have Lyons too :) I haven't really got anywhere with them though. I know Ann Lyons' father was called Timothy but I've no idea where in Ireland they came from. I found a Timothy and Catherine Lyons in Radyr on the 1871 Wales census but I can't be sure they are Ann Lyons parents.
I know what you mean about the Griffiths Valuation - I was so excited when I saw Bartholomew Darney! but as you say we've no proof he's the right one.
I have my most of my tree on GenesReunited and Ancestry UK. It would be really nice to swap info.
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Hi Lilylaces,
Thank you I will check out those sites for your tree. You might like to look at the ancestry message board 'Darney' there has been a very interesting reply to a message I posted! :o
take care,
Pip
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Thanks Pip!
Gosh - The Darney Stone! :D I'd love to see that.
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Hi Solstice dreamer re your Swansea connections I am looking for more info on John age 34, Michael 18 and Daniel 15 Sullivan of Grove st Swansea in the 1861 census listed as Marine dealers.
Are they in your f/tree . I have family connections in Port Talbot area Eugene Sullivan Can you help? Thanks
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Just an update to my original post with information I found last night (and am still following up these leads):
James Driscoll (c1825 Ireland-?) m.(1867 Cardiff, Wales) Mary Keefe (c1829 Ireland-?). Known children:
1. Johanna/Anne O'Driscoll (1851 Cardiff-1933 N.Y.) m. Michael McCoy.
2. Timothy (c1854 Cardiff) m. Hester Brown (she went to U.S.1912 with son Daniel but husband Timothy was still alive. Hester was still there in 1920). Daughters Agnes, Annie and Lizzie also went to U.S.- Connecticut. 1910 Lizzie living with sister Agnes and family. When Lizzie arrived in U.S. in 1905 she was going to her aunt Mrs. Jones. Mrs. Jones was Mary E. Jones who is possibly the Mary Driscoll (born c1861) below. 3. Ellen/Nellie Driscoll (1859 Cardiff-1914 Connecticut) m. George Clifford.
4. Mary Driscoll (c1861 Cardiff).
5. Daniel J. Driscoll (1865 Cardiff-1945 Connecticut) m. Esther Martell.
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my Irish ancesters came over in three waves. The Donovan during the famine (from Skibbereen) then the more skilled (stonemasons) Dooleys during 1860 &1870 and finally the Connors (really O'Conners) during the 1870s via the army and India. They lived in Irish communities and married other Irish families for several generations.
I am most interested in my Dooley ancesters as we are relatively rare in Wales. I think they came from Waterford but this may just be a family rumour. My Ggrandfather Richard came over to join his brother Philip (who then disappears with his entire family ...did they emigrate?). Richard stayed on living in Cardiff, Dowlais and then all over Glamorgan (as he looked for work) The only thing I know is that their father was called John and he too was a stonemason
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scrumhalf~sorry about the huge delay here!
i have lots of Flavins and Sullivans in my tree all around the Swansea area; some with dead ends, but i do have a John, Michael and 'Darl' listed.
I am at the end of a huge essay right now and then going away for a week (recuperation!) but when i get back i will have lots of time to play with my family tree...please e-mail me at
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and we can hopefully find any missing links!
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hi
i too have irish ancestors in cardiff area from 1850's
they were the dempsey's my grandfather and gr grandfather were dock policemen
don't know where in ireland they originated from my grandfather was james patrick
dempsey b 1895 his father was william b 1860
i can go back to 1861 census for wales and for john dimsey and wife mary it just has
ireland' as place of birth
they arrived around 1853
my maternal grandmother was mary o'brien b 1896 d 1946 apart from this i know
nothing else about her i have ordered their marriage cert in the hopes this gives me
more information about her
main areas of focus in cardiff is sully canton and splott
my mother was born in cardiff 1931 and her mother died when she was 14 and was sent to
live with her sister her father didn't stay around!
my mother died in 1985 so i have no one i can ask about my cardiff/ irish family
if these people sound familiar to you please contact me
berni
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Hi I am new to rootschat, and just saw your post regarding Whitty's in Cardiff. I have previously been in contact with Maura from the Whitty Clan but have been unable to find anything substantial to tie my family with. My Great Grandfather Andrew Whitty worked as a farm labourer between 1901 and 1910 in Llancarfan. 1901 census states he is from Southern Ireland so we have had no luck tracing him till his death certificate stated his brother was with him when he died in Llancarfan in 1910. I have had no luck tracing his brother a 'V' Whitty either. Andrew had two daughters Sally (Sarah Jane) 1905 and Maude (Alice Maud)1907 and son Walter John born 1910. I think we may be out a generation but wondered if there is any connection Of course V may not be his brothers frist name as some of my irish relatives are called by their middle name and not thier first name.
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Hi there, good to hesar from someone else researching the Whitty's!
I'm quite excited by this as some cousins of mine (and myself of course!), have been trying to track down two remaining lines of our family, and Anthony Whitty is one of my gt gt grandfather's brothers who we lost track of.
Walter is a family name (my gt gt Grandfather was Walter).
I'm aware from my grandmother that Walter (and his son Nicholas) kept in touch with relatives in Cardiff up until Walter's death. My gran advised that Walter's brother's daughters attended the funeral, but that's it.
Do you have a rough, or exact, DOB for Anthony at all? Does it give an address for his brother on the death certificate if he was the informant? We have no first names beginning with a V unfortunately.
Unfortunately there do appear to have been
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oops, continued:
There appear to have been quite a few Whitty's from Ireland living in Cardiff, and I'd contacted quite a lot with no luck.
You need to post a few more times (another twice I think) before you can PM me, and then if it's looking good, I'll e-mail you directly the details I have and we can see if anything clicks.
We've got the Whitty line back to 1826 (fully documented), so anything you can remember may tie you in
Chris
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Roughly on topic:
I have a Ledgingham Murphy who had a daughter Sophia (eldest of 8 children) who married a William Howell in Chepstow in 1810.
I have never found any record of Ledgingham Murphy - have you?
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Hi Halfsheep,
As far as i'm aware my great greandfather was called Andrew (from marraige and death certificate I have). Est DOB is 1880 on death cert, and 1901 England & Wales census is 1879. I have a private family tree already on Ancestry if you have access. The only other thing my mother told me was that she thinks he was from Wexford. There is a an Andrew Whitty in 1901 Irish census working a farm labourer in Wexford, Ballymitty with the same YOB with what looks like his brother (not a v whitty either), but as far as i'm aware its pretty impossibly for him to be recorded twice in two different counties, although Maura didn't know where this Andrew went either! And thats all I have, which seems to be the problem. I have however wondered where the name Walter had come from as I know it does not appear in any other part of my tree so I figured perhaps someone in Andrews family might have been called this.
Not sure if this is any use to you but there was an A V Whitty living in St bride's in the 1930-50's according to some info I have researched but im not sure where he came from. I think his DOB was around 1890 and he appears to have run garage called A V Whitty Garages in Southerndown.
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Hmm intriguing. Wexford is certainly where my lot came from, but unfortunately, this is where pretty much all the Irish Whitty's came from.
1880 is the year of birth I have for my Anthony (07/09/1880). I also have military records for him and his occupation is given as a Labourer. However, I suspect labourers in Ireland were like coal miners in South Wales!!
I can't find Ballymitty, but my lot were from Taghmon, Coolsallagh and Clearistown.
I've not got access to Ancestry unfortunately either, but is his name was definately Andrew, then it's unlikely he's linked into my lot. Do you know what his father's name was - I'd assume it was on the marriage certificate.
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Sorry, just remembered I had not given you this info. Fathers name on the cert was also Andrew Whitty (Labourer) he was recorded as deceased when he wed Eliza Marsh in 1905.
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No Andrew's in my lot unfortunately sorry.
I've no doubt that we're all connected somewhere down the line, and Maura at Whitty Clan is the fountain of all knowledge regarding the Irish Whitty's, but if she has no info at this time, it probably just means that it's unfortunately just you researching this particular line of the family at this time.
All the best though
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I have a Ledgingham Murphy who had a daughter Sophia (eldest of 8 children) who married a William Howell in Chepstow in 1810.
Did you see my reply to your previous thread on Ledgingham?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,535316.0.html
Kind Regards
Morgan
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Cracked it.
There was a Sophia born to a Walter Murphy and Mary in Chepstow (one of 8 of their children)
I knew Sophia was 1 of 8 but not who they were.
And Walter Murphy married Mary Ledgingham 2 years before the birth of their first child in chepstow.
Good enough for me (especially after 50 years searching).
I'm celebrating!!!! ;D ;D ;D