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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: canadacas on Monday 10 March 08 21:49 GMT (UK)
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I think others have been asking about the records from HollyMount. On his Canadian WWI enlistment form, my grandfather put Holly Mount as his place of birth and listed no names of parents. I am trying to find those records if they still exist.
Thanks for any help,
Cathy
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Hello Cathy
Welcome to Rootschat.
Looks like Holly Mount would be part of Rawtenstall.
http://www.lancashirepioneers.com/whitehead/hollymount.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rawtenstall
"The Parochial Registers and Records Measure in 1978 became law on 1 January 1979. As a result of this, every custodian of parish registers and records that were over 100 years old were required to deposit them in the designated record office unless exemption was obtained from the bishop. The designated record office was normally the County Record Office."
I am not from England and do not know the County Record Office for Rawtenstall. The Lancaster Records Office should have the records and will definitely be able to help you identify your records. See their Church Registers Search and Research Services links:
http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/education/record_office/records/folk.asp
http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/education/record_office/services/enquiries_research.asp
Some records are available via Family History Library:
"Most of the Parish Registers for England have been microfilmed by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Consequently, the the LDS church has become a tremendous research tool for genealogists and the microfilm copies of Parish Registers may be ordered from any branch Family History Library of the LDS church."
Lancashire Church Records :
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/ChurchRecords.shtml
- from this site IGI (LDS Church records) - http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountyLancashire_(P-Z).htm
You could try searching his name on this Parish Records website (not all parishes available though):
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/cgi-bin/mkindx.cgi?parish=Bury&type=Town&community=
and FreeReg:
http://freereg.rootsweb.com/cgi/Search.pl
Have you tried searching for his birth on the FreeBMD:
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
Do you know when he emigrated? Would he have been in England on an earlier census? You might want to provide his name and birth informaton and make a new request asking for a census lookup.
Linda
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Hi Cathy
Talk to Migky about this, as he knows a lot about Holly Mount. I'll give him a nudge for you, in case he's missed this post.
Good luck
T
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Thanks Tony!
I'll follow up and appreciate the nudge.
C
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Speaking of Holly Mount. Could someone tell me if their are/were 2 such places. There is a Holly Mount school (used to be an orphanage) in Greenmount/Tottington. And there is also the remains of a Holly Mount school in Rawtenstall some 7 miles away. Are they somehow linked, and is it possible to mistake a reference to one for the other?
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There were two schools by the name of " Hollymount " but the one in Greenmount was a convent home run by nuns and had it's own shool which is still there today. the convent home was run by the sister of charity of Jesus & Mary order. The pulled down the convent home back in 1992 and built flats there , the chaple was later turned into flats also. The school still remains.
Migky ;)
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Hi folks, sorry it has taken me so long to get round to posting a few pictures for you all and i said i would do it months ago ( shame on me :-[ )
Migky ;)
This is the convent school back around the 1960's
Images removed as it may infringe copy rights
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My mother would have been placed in this class/group as she was placed in Hollymount at an early age :'(
Images removed as it make infringe copy rights
This would be where my mother learn her sewing and embroidery skills. My mother would make table cloths for friends as wedding gifts, full of beautifully embroidery on very heavy cotton sheet. they would cost you a fortune these days to have made
Images removed as it may infringe copy rights
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Thanks for the fabulous pictures and commentary, MIGKY.
I am still a little confused because I'm getting the impression that Holly Mount was for girls, but I think my grandfather was there until he was around 5 years old 1897 - 1902.
Any thoughts on that? Was he wrong?
Cathy
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PS.
How can I print or get a copy of these pictures for my records?
Cathy
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Right click on any the the pictures you want to print out , it will drop down a menu for you. Go to the print section. like this below.
Migky ;)
Images removed as it may infringe copy rights
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I think these two thread should be linked as they both cover much the same ground/
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,146072.15.html
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Migky - Thank you so much for all your endless effort and trouble collating and posting the piccies re Hollymount. Wow!! I found them mindblowing!! My image and memory of time there was like walking back into a time warp. I am sure many past "residents" will feel the same ,as will anyone who has dearly loved ones as part of Hollymount history.
I am not very computer literate, but I wonder how you acquired these pictures? Are they from a book, press cuttings or what? Not to worry. I will get an 'expert' friend to help me follow your useful instructions to print them off.
I know some of your photos will fill a gap for lots of people!!
I only wish I could be more positively supportive for people who have Hollymount connections. Public image will, necessarily for many, present a constructive perspective yet we should acknowledge that there were many experientially destructive aspects.
I know this is an image shared by others but somewhat confused as to why it seems not permissable to offer equal validation to an alternative yet honest dialogue. This, to me, is an essential balance to the 'virtures' of 'good intentions' and the recipients of life-long trauma.
What you have provided is many avenues of support via tracing, records, and historical narratives for those who need to learn and understand more. Thank you so much for that and your hard work.
I, myself, carry the ground-in guilt of screaming at my laptop screen that there are always two sides to everything. Perhaps I am just bitter and twisted. Even so, I could never deny the truth and will always look to understand why so much pain was delivered in the name of God.
Take care Migky.
Jomar
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Thank you so much for the longed for pics Migky. :-*
I have saved them to my photo file for the time being but it may be a good idea to print off one or two as well.
Much appreciated. :)
Jinxy
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I have just logged onto the forum for the first time as I am trying to trace records of my husband's grandmother, Sarah who was an orphan and was brought up in HollyMount and as far as I can tell remained there until her marriage abt 1923. Her name was Sarah and was born around 1890. She, and other members of the family were buried in the cemetery there (there were several adjoining plots) her married name was Collinson.
I would be grateful for any assistance in tracing her and the graves. I will begin by reading the previous messages.
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Hello and welcome Ravintola to rootschat. I think you might find more infomation on another thread i started some time back.
I hope we can help you with your search.
Do you live in the Bury area? and do you know the other family members that are buried up at Hollymount?
Migky ;)
Images removed as it may infringe copy rights
You could also try contacting these her for more on the Burials from Hollymount.
Bury Cemetery. Council Offices. St Peters Road Bury 0161 253 5871 Council Offices. Hollymount Lane Greenmount Bury BL8 4HP Tel: 01204-880291
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It was very pleasing to receive a reply so quickly - thank you for your assistance. I believe that the family have three adjoining plots in the Hollymount Cemetery. The names of those buried there are Sarah and John Collinson (both born around 1885 and died in 1968 within two weeks of each other). I understand that Sarah was born in Salford but do not have proof of this.
Others buried there are Thomas Leo Collinson, a Salesian priest and his sister and her husband Catherine and Peter Collinge (Catherine died in 1984). Thomas Leo Collinson was born in c1880 and died in c1960
Sarah, an orphan was brought up in Holly Mount and I believe remained there until her marriage. As yet I do not known her maiden name, can you suggest a way forward on this.
The family remained in Hawkshaw for some time, my husband and his brother both lived there until secondary school age and later moved to Yorkshire where we are now. I will follow links in the forum but any further suggestions would be welcome.
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Canadacas and Ravintola,
After 1911/12 the mothers maiden name appeared on the index of births, so if you give us a name of one of the children born after this we can then find this out. , and so find the marriage date of john and sarah, as there are couple of john collinsons got married in 1923; also Canada cas's grandad's birth would have had to be registered , so at least should have his mothers name on the index.
Hope that helps
Best
Jed
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Thanks for this help. I hadn't realised that the mother's maiden name was stated on birth certificates in the 1920's. I now know that she was Sarah Moore and I have found her on the 1901 census as an inmate at HollyMount aged 8. I have also now located the marriage date of September 1922 in Bury with John Collinson and know that they lived on Bolton Road, Hawkshaw so already making excellent progress!
I have also found her sister who in the 1901 census was at Hollymount aged 5 (Mary Moore). I do not have further details for her.
Now that I know the names, can anyone please suggest the next step in finding a) length of time Sarah was at Hollymount and parental details and b) details of the graves of my family.
Many thanks for the two responses so far
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Hi im a newbie,can anyone tell me how to find records on Hollymount convent? my nan was said to have been bought up there.all i have regarding info is her name & DoB.
Ethel O'Neil b1910 Rotherham Yorkshire.kind regards
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Hi & welcome peggytoof, i do hope we can help you in some way with your request. Do you have any idea how & why she endded up on this side of the pennines?
If any one is looking to try and trace any sort of records from hollymount, the only link i have found to do with them is as follows. The archives of HollyMount's childrens home went to :
Images removed as it may infringe copy rights
Migky ;)
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The nuns from Hollymount were a Belgium order and have tried to find any records of there but they seemed to have been destroyed when they left Hollymount. You could try contacing Salford diocese, as i am sure with them been catholics they would have come under there rule so to speak? I have tried a long time back but never got any reply to my emails
Migky ;)
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Peggytoof, the birth reference for Ethel is
Ethel O'neill Rotherham Dec 1910 9c 766 so you can get her birth cert now either by writing to rotherham register office or order online from the GRO www.gro.gov.uk
Rotherham register Office
Bailey House
Rawmarsh Road
Rotherham
South Yorkshire
S60 1TX
Tel +44 (0)1709 823542
Hope that helps
best
jed
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I have just purchased the Holly Mount book "A Labour of Love" and note that on the back page it mentions my two great aunts - Florence & Kitty Collinson - 11 year prize for Faithful service from the 1924 report. Does anyone have any further information on them or memories perhaps.
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Peggytoof, the birth reference for Ethel is
Ethel O'neill Rotherham Dec 1910 9c 766 so you can get her birth cert now either by writing to rotherham register office or order online from the GRO www.gro.gov.uk
Rotherham register Office
Bailey House
Rawmarsh Road
Rotherham
South Yorkshire
S60 1TX
Tel +44 (0)1709 823542
Hope that helps
best
jed
thanks Jed,most grateful,kind regards Lisaxxx
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Hi Folks,long time no see!!!!!!!
As you all know i've been searching for my nanna Ethel O'Neil.She was brought up at Holly Mount,up until last weekend i had very little to go on.But i've had a breakthrough!!!!!!!!
On a rare visit to Summerseat last weekend i find out that my auntie had Ethel's B/C all along!!!!
Ethel O'Neil was actually born on 31/10/1909 in the registration district of Chorlton,at 6 upper Brook St,south Manchester!!!!!!!
She married my granddad Harry Whitworth on 26/05/1934 at St Hilda's,the chapel attached to Holly Mount!!!!!!
So as you can see ,I've got a bit more to go on now,although i would still like to know why she was left there.I bought the book "A labour of love" inside was another girl named O'Neil,it says in the book she was one of many girls confirmed there,her name was Veronica O'Neil,in another book i saw in Tottington Library called Alpha,Omega,Phoenix,was a list of girls who died & where buried there,on the list was Rosie O'Neil died 02/04/1915,if anyone recognizes these names can they let me know,even if its so i can discount them.
If anyones interested i got a phone number from Bury central library,the lady there is going to search the Holly Mount records for me,she says it should take about 2 weeks,fingers crossed the number is 016143277461
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That should mean shes on the 1911 census at either Chorlton or Holly Mount. But I cant see her. please can anyone Help?
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If anyones interested i got a phone number from Bury central library,the lady there is going to search the Holly Mount records for me,she says it should take about 2 weeks,fingers crossed
You say the are going to check for you, what exactly are they going to check for you? and is this at the library? As i have asked them many times about anything on Hollymount and all they come up with is the "Labour of love"book which i have ? I asked at bury archives to and got the same answer?
Migky ;)
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The 1911 show the rose you metioned at an INSTITUTION i take it to mean Hollymount. Along with these other O'neil's?
INSTITUTION O'NEIL ELIZABETH F 1897 14 Bury Lancashire
INSTITUTION O'NEIL MARY ELLEN F 1898 13 Bury Lancashire
INSTITUTION O'NEIL ROSE F 1901 10 Bury
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The guy at Bury central library gave me a number for "Catholic childrens rescue society",they then passed me the number for "Elaine House" the lady there said they had the records for Holly Mount,& she would search through them for me!!!
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Elaines vey good she emailed me within a few days. with my details of Florence Nellis.
Waits until she get a few to search for though.
Cant understand why your Ethels not showing up in 1911.
Did she have any other names and do you know her parents names or siblings?
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The Catholic Children’s Rescue Society
390 Parrs Wood Road
Didsbury
Manchester M20 5NA
I have been in contact with these before. If your new number is for a differants place let me know. i might contact them my self
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Sorry the ladies name was Anne Marie. Not Elaine.
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All i know about Ethel is her parents were William O'Neil & Elizabeth Merrick,they were married in 1897 in Chorlton,Ethel was born in Chorlton on Medlock,as for siblings i have no clue as yet!!!
the catholic childrens rescue society is 01614457741
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Have you any ages for William and Elizabeth?
Have you found them on the 1901 census?
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No thats all ive got :( Does anyone know where i ca pick up a copy of "The home on the hill"
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Going for my tea now. Will look again at this tomorrow.
Have a nice evening.
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All i know about Ethel is her parents were William O'Neil & Elizabeth Merrick,they were married in 1897 in Chorlton,Ethel was born in Chorlton on Medlock,as for siblings i have no clue as yet!!!
the catholic childrens rescue society is 01614457741
Maybe you could get this marriage cert and it may give you the ages of William and Elizabeth and their fathers names.
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Have you any ages for William and Elizabeth?
Have you found them on the 1901 census?
Looks like Elizabeth Merrick is the daughter of Andrew and Mary A Merrick.
In 1881 they are in Hope St Chorlton. And in 1891 Mary A is a Widow. Elizabeth born 1871 Manchester.
Cant find her or William in 1901. Looks like mum had died and rest of family split up around manchester.
Will be help when you find out for the Catholic Society just when Ethel was in Holly Mount.
My Florence Nellis was in and out a few times and its all recorded.
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Thanks Frithy,iI've sent for Elizabeth & Williams marriage cert,should take bout a week.Cant wait to hear from Cath, childrens society!!!!!!
Will let you know when i know more,kind regards Lisaxx
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I've snt you a private message
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Thanks Frithy,iI've sent for Elizabeth & Williams marriage cert,should take bout a week.Cant wait to hear from Cath, childrens society!!!!!!
Will let you know when i know more,kind regards Lisaxx
Did you ever give us these marriage details?
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Blimey,sorry no ,here they are below
1897 @ Holy Trinity,Hulme in the county Manchester
District Chorlton
William O'Neil,36,Widower,Papermaker
Living@ 9 Watson st,father Edward O'Neil,Brick seller
Elizabeth Merrick,25,spinster,
Living @ 10 Watson st,Father Andrew Merrick,deceased,Striker
witnesses
James Edward Hull & Emma Merrick
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Blimey,sorry no ,here they are below
1897 @ Holy Trinity,Hulme in the county Manchester
District Chorlton
William O'Neil,36,Widower,Papermaker
Living@ 9 Watson st,father Edward O'Neil,Brick seller
Elizabeth Merrick,25,spinster,
Living @ 10 Watson st,Father Andrew Merrick,deceased,Striker
witnesses
James Edward Hull & Emma Merrick
Not much help i know but this family were living at 9 & 10 Watson street Hulme 1911
BERRY ALICE 1910 1 Chorlton
BERRY EMMA 1903 8 Chorlton
BERRY FRED 1905 6 Chorlton
BERRY GEORGE 1907 4 Chorlton
BERRY GEORGE ARTHUR 1879 32 Chorlton
BERRY MARY ELLEN 1878
And thes at number 10 Watson street Hulme
JOHNSON HENRY M 1839 72 Chorlton
JOHNSON ISAAC M 1873 38 Chorlton
JOHNSON LILY F 1886 25 Chorlton
OWEN CHARLES M 1883 28
I think this could also be the death reg of Andrew?
Andrew Merrick abt 1838
died Jan 1/4 1882 Chorlton 8c 509
Did it say deceased on the wedding certificate?
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For those of you who are following this. And are trying to help.
Here are the details that Peggytoof got from the Catholic Society about Ethel O.neil.
Ethel O.Neill born: chorlton Union
DoB: 20/10/1909 (11 days discrepancy)
where baptised:Our Lady of Grace,Prestwich
parent's names:Elizabeth O'Neill
Occupation:servant
Recommended by:Chorlton Union
Received :26/09/1913
Left:31/12/1916
So that still leaves us wondering who she went to, only aged 7 when she left. ???
And why did she go back there to St Hilda's to marry many years later.???
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Yes Andrew Merrick was listed as deceased,can i ask how you found the residents of Watson St,is there a way to search for them?
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I have traced the Merricks on census for Peggytoof.
Emma was Elizabeths sister.
1901 at 66 Union St Manchester boarding with the Wilson family.
Emma Merrick 23, single. worker in India Rubber.
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1901 at 66 Union St Manchester boarding with the Wilson family.
Emma Merrick 23, single. worker in India Rubber.
I wonder if they could have worked here ? CLICK 4 Rubber (http://www.flickr.com/photos/leeshearman/2938514051/)
Or maybe it was the Mackintosh factory which later became Dunlop's?
http://www.lakelandelements.com/rainwearhistory/macintoshfactory.htm
Bye the way, i could not see any of the Wilson family at the Union address 1911
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Have sent you a list of all men called Frank Wilson in manchester 1927 in a pm.
Migky ;)
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Hi Migky
Have sent you a list of all men called Frank Wilson in manchester 1927 in a pm.
Migky ;)
No I'm working on William Oneill beeing a widower on his marriage to Elizabeth.
Think he may have married a Sarah Jane Couser 1891.
We now know he should have a birth date of 1861.
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1901 at 30 Grantham St Salford.
William 42 paper maker, Beater. Cant make out where he was born.
Elizabeth 28. born man.
Edward 17, son. Lab in Electric works. born Salford.
Sissy, 16 daughter. Dom Serv. born Salford.
RG/13/3788.
Do you think he was born Ireland?
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Not sure where he was born,im gonna send you an invite to view my Ancestry Tree,all the info is on there,someone suggested he may have been born in wales,i've got a few records in reserve in "my shoebox" but im not gonna add them until im 99% sure they are correct.Take a look see what you think?
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Hi,
On the 1891 this William is Still married to an Elizabeth. Think this is Elzabeth Dawson. married 1883 at Salford.
Sissy is a SARAH on this.
57 Nashville St . Salford. Will, 31 a rag Engineer for paper maker. Born Flintshire. Flint.
Elizabeth 29. born Heap Bridge Lancs.
Edward.7. Sarah. 5. Annie 2.
This would make Ethel HALF sister.
We need to find out what happend to them.. Maybe thet were around to look after Ethel.
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theres a death for an Elizabeth o'neil aged 32 in 1892 at Salford.
Which would fir in nice with William being a Widower in 1897.
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Frithy have you got the invite i sent you?
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Frithy have you got the invite i sent you?
Yes I've filled a bit in for you. I know we still havent found your Ethel, but we are building up a nice picture of her Dads life now. Maybe the Half siblings will hold a clue.
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The links here were extremely helpful thank you.
I have now been able to determine the date of death for my gt.grandmother 1913
and I know that it was at some point after that when my grandmother and her sister
went to stay at Hollymount. My grandmother was reunited with her father when she
was about 12/13 so her stay in Hollymount would have been between 1913 and 1921.
Although I have yet to confirm this.
Thank you for sharing this information.
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Might be worth you reading this thread too?
Migky ;)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,146072.0.html
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Hi is anyone still active on this thread? My Mum was at Holly Mount as a boarder around 1954 and I would be really interested if anyone has any photos or was there. Her name is gwyneth.