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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: jtas on Saturday 08 March 08 23:10 GMT (UK)
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hi
Please could someone clarify for me if John W Hindley married Jane saxton in 1879 or Jane Bowker in 1884 in Prestwich . I know that my great grandfather George Hindley was born in 1884 in Prestwich and that his father was John but which couple are the correct parents.
I live hundreds of miles away from Manchester so I am unable to visit any local record offices.
Look forward to having a reply soon
Thanks
jtas
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Looking at the 1891 census, I'd guess that parents had been married prior to 1874.
So Neither seem appropriate. RG12; Piece: 3084; Folio 40; Page 30
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John Hindley 39
Jane Hindley 40
Eve Hindley 17
Samuel Hindley 15
Robert Hindley 13
William Hindley 10
John Hindley 8
Thomas Hindley 6
Hannah Hindley 4
Susan Hindley 2
All b Astley
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1881. RG11; Piece: 3802; Folio: 33; Page: 10
All b Astley
John Hindley 29
Jane Hindley 30
Sarah Ann Hindley 8
Eve Hindley 7
Saml. Hindley 5
Robert Hindley 3
Saml. Hindley 2
William Hindley
Elizabeth Wilkinson 43 Lodger
John William Wilkinson 15 lodger
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If any; I'd fancy this marriage.
You really need a birth cert to confirm MMN.
HINDLEY John WRIGHT Jane. 1872 Wigan & Leigh
Is this the correct family unit; if not then please identify them in census for us.
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is this your great grandfather in 1891
1891
RG12/3259/110/17.
john hindley age 26. b. ashton. occ. boiler stoker. head.
jane age 25. b. manchester. wife.
george age 6. b. manchester. son.
john william hindley age 4. b. ditto. son.
hannah age 1. b. ditto. daughter.
william bowker age 19. b. manchester. occ. coal miner. boarder.
living at ; 112,beaumont street,beswick,manchester,lancashire.
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Hi Pauline
Thanks for your help but this is not my john. I definitely know that George was born in1884 and that he married Emily Berry in 1909. On his marriage certificate he states his father as being John w hindley a Striker. I think that John was born around 1857 in Manchester. If you can locate him i would be very grateful
Thanks
jtas
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Hi Pauline
Yes that is the one thank you ignore my previous reply you are able to type faster than me. I just need to know which Jane it could be any clues.
Thanks
Jtas
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Well, the marriage you refer to doesn't occur till sept 1884, and there's no guarantee that John Married Jane.
you NEED a birth certificate.
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here is the birth index
name george hindley
y.o.r.1884.
qtr. oct/nov/dec.
dist. prestwich
county. lancashire.
vol. 8d.
page. 322
if you send for the cert it should tell you what you want to know
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Hello Wozzle
Just to say thank you to you for locating my John Hindley.
Jtas
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1884
john w hindley married jane bowker at christ church manchester
taken from lancashire bmd
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so if this is the right marriage it would appear that jane was already carrying your george at the time of the marriage
as pauline said you really need the birth cert.
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Wozzle and Pauline
Thanks for all your help I will order George`s birth certificate. I think maybe Jane`s maiden surname is Bowker as there is William Bowker lodging with them in 1891.
Jtas
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Hi I just saw your post about John Hindley and Jane Bowker. Jane's brother William was my ggrandfather. I got Jane and John's name from his wedding cert. I was wondering if you found out anything about the Bowker family that you could share. I know that this post is several years old, but hopefully you're still out there.
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Hi
Please accept my apologises for not replying to your post sooner, sadly my father was ill at the time and passed away on the 26th December so i havent been doing any research. From memory i found a Sarah Bowker widow residing with John and Jane and there was also a william Bowker aged 18. I think i did find that her husband was Samuel Bowker. If jane and william are brother and sister, then we must be distantly related as she would have been my gt gt grandmother. I have subcription for find my past so next week when i have more time i will do some delving and see if i can find anything new for you.
Do you have any further info about the Bowkers, could you scan a copy of the marriage certificate as it would be nice to see their hand writing or were they illiterate?
Look forward to hearing from you
Regards
Jackie
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I think this is intended to be a reply to this thread?
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,291041.msg1737224.html
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Thank you for your post. i am confused as to where have i put this posting and how do i direct it to the correct place. Help!!!
Thanks
Jackie
Moderator comment: Hi Jackie, I've merged your 2 posts so the information is together, hopefully this will help. :)
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Hi
I have just obtained john william hindley marriage certificate, he married jane bowker on the 27th july 1884 at christ church, beswick, bradford. His father is john Hindley a labourer and her father is john Bowker a Spinner. The witnesses are George Bowker and Margaret Downs. does anyone else have further information about either of the two fathers.?
I think there is a John Hindley who was a chelsea pensioner who may fit in but i need to get my research out and have a proper read up. I dont have any info on the Bowker side so it would be nice if anyone has anything they wish to share.
Bye for now
jackie
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Jackie, I can scan and send you the copy of William Bowker's wedding reg. if you still want it. He got married in the same church as Jane. I also have John Bowker's. He was born in 1821, son of Hannah Unknown Bowker. She remarried to a George Curry/Currie. John Bowker married Elizabeth Emmerson in 1849 at the Manchester Cathedral. Elizabeth's father was also named John. Her mother was dead by the 1841 census. Let me know if you want either of the two marriage certs. you can email me at (*)
Jeanie
Jeanie,
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Morning Jeanie
Yes please i would love to have a copy of their marriage certificates. I wonder where sarah bowker fits in as she was staying with John Hindley on the 1881 census along with a william bowker age 18 , a miner. Also does George Bowker belong to your family?
I will get my paper work out again and i must start to put it into proper order, i keep going off at tangents with different members of both my mum`s and dad`s rellies.
Speak to you soon
Jackie
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Hello I have just come back on Roots after a few weeks, and I decided to put another post on regards my family and I saw your post looked a bit further and was amazed that you mentioned George/Emily. I saw your post about George Hindley he was my Grandfather who died in 1919 Emily was my grandmother who died in 1968, my Dad was Arthur he passed away in 1974.We are obviously related ? Hope to hear from you.
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The registers for Christ church, Bradford are free to view on family search.
Here (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-12453-39752-95?cc=1788853&wc=MMGS-H4V:n1581264907) is the one for John and Jane. It is the original, so has actual signatures. GRO version is a copy.
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Why can I not find this when I do a seach on familysearch. I put in the exact info and I cannot find it. I want to look for other Bowker marriages, but I can't even find this one. Is there some magical combination of search terms that I should use. ahhhhhh!
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These images have not been indexed. To find where they are search on lancashirebmd, which gives the church the marriage took place (unless catholic).
Browse the images on family search to find the church.
The reference on lancsbmd is the clue to finding it. Jane Bowker/John hindley was reference 33/3/447. The last number is the register entry, as there are two on a page, it is on page 224.
Hope this helps.
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::)Hi Guys
Just browsing the forum saw the posts on John Hindley and Sarah Bowker - I have the 1881 census with John's family and Sarah and her son were boarders at the time did not think that a daughter of Sarah - Jane would marry John W Hindley will need to check that out.
Researching the Hindleys is very complex many Hindleys and many Johns
I have him born in 1891 in 1901 I found a John W Hindley 11 years old and adopted, not sure if they are one and the same cant find his parents Robert and Sarah yet a later document I have indicates Robert is alive after 1911 don't know about Sarah, all my Cronshaws and Hindley appear to live around RedBank area of M/c and Miles Platting area
I do know that any marriage of a John and Jane are not mine so becareful there are many pitfalls in determining the correct line
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hi manu.
Just seen your thread regarding John William Hindley and jane Bowker. They are definitely my rellies.What Hindley line are you related too? or are you decended from the Bowker line.
Look forward o hearing from you soon.
Jackie.
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Hindley Family Tree attached, hope you can read it
All descendants from Robert Hindley 1870 are fully documented and correct. The only thing that makes sense is that the John Hindley b1865 is in fact John W and is the brother of Robert b1870
The 1881 census showing John Hindley b1836 wife Mary son 16 year old John and boarders Sarah Bowker & Son William why didn’t she have Jane with her??
In 1884 John aged 19 b1865 married Jane Bowker according to “jtas” Rootschat forum
When I checked the 1901 census the only John W Hindley I could find was 11 and had been adopted yet a later document says father Robert was still alive but not found any record of Sarah so he could have been adopted but he would have been born in 1890, I do have a John W Hindley born 1920.
My biggest fear is that somewhere down the line I have got two hindley families mixed
By the way "jtas" my connection is my wifes mother was the daughter of Ellen Hindley nee Cronshaw, she married John Hindley in 1911
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hi manu,
Thank you for the family tree, John William born october 1863 married in 1884 to Jane Bowker. i have the marriage certificate. They then had twins in 1884, John William who died and also George who survived. They then had another son in 1887 whom they named John William. George married Emily Berry in 1909 and i have that certificate. They had my grandfather frederick in 1916. sadly george died in the Spanish flu epidemic in 1919 and Emily brought up her six sons by herself. My grandfather moved from Prestwich in 1936 too Watford where he worked for Watford Engineering as a Central lathe turner.He married my grandmother Violet Farmer in 1937 and they had five children . The only remaining sibling is my mother Doreen.
I am very interested in the previous generations to John William Hindley. Have you any certificates to prove what you have found?
I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Regards,
jackie.
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Hi Jackie
Sorry for the delay but rootschat went off line for a couple of days anyway I would be interested in the marriage cert for John W & Jane. You asked about certificates to prove what I have found, being in Australia it can be costly to purchase documentation and so I rely on FreeBMD, Lancashire BMD, Lancs On-line Parish records and Family Search and people like yourself occasionally when funds are available I go on ancestry, however I was born in Manchester and have an extensive knowledge of various areas where the families I am researching come from.
I have attached a word doc with a brief explanation of the Hindley line from around the 1720's, as with a lot of family research can be open to conjecture although I believe the info is good.
regards Ray
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Hi Jackie
Just a thought with the marriage certificate who is the father, the residence and who are the witnesses, that might help narrow the field somewhat
I did a search on familysearch and came across this
Name John William Hindley Birth Date 1865 Age 19
Spouse's Name Jane Bowker Age 19 Spouse's Birth Date 1865
Event Date 27 Jul 1884 Event Place Bradford, Lancashire, England
Father's Name John Hindley Spouse's Father's Name John Bowker
Indexing Project (Batch) Number I02580-9
GS Film number 2112993 Reference ID 224
Bradford is just down the road from where the family live
cheers Ray
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hi ray,
thank you for your replies, i wanted to scan the certificate for you but my printer is not working and i am waiting for one of my sons to sort it out for me. I did find recently on Ancestry a John Hindley of 85 Simpsom Street enlisted into the Militia army in 1883 for a period of six years and there is a physical description of him. On the 1881 census that is where our Hindley family is residing. I need to look at my research as i am sure there is a John Hindley that was a Chelsea pensioner on the 1861/1871 census who may be his father. Hindley was such a popular name in Manchester. I will try to do more research over the weekend.
Regards,
Jackie.
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You asked about certificates to prove what I have found, being in Australia it can be costly to purchase documentation and so I rely on FreeBMD, Lancashire BMD, Lancs On-line Parish records and Family Search and people like yourself occasionally when funds are available I go on ancestry, however I was born in Manchester and have an extensive knowledge of various areas where the families I am researching come from.
A Birth, Marriage or Death certificate should cost £9.25 (when bought from GRO),or approx £10 if bought from the District Registrar.
NEVER buy them from places like Ancestry! They charge £25!! :o
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Thanks KG
I realise the GRO is the best way and I normally use them but I am in the process of researching 8 family lines and that's where I need to be picky of which certs I buy.
Have just found that some marriage records from the Manchester Cathedral around the 1850-1880 are on ancestry and are identical to the certs you can buy, for a $10 for 10 credits on ancestry pay per view does in fact work out cheaper than the GRO
thanks again
regards
Ray
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To jtas
This thread is getting longer and longer - just browsing through previous posting and noticed a post by Wozzle for 1891 census RG12/3259/110/17.
john hindley age 26. b. ashton. occ. boiler stoker. head.
jane age 25. b. manchester. wife.
george age 6. b. manchester. son.
john william hindley age 4. b. ditto. son.
hannah age 1. b. ditto. daughter.
william bowker age 19. b. manchester. occ. coal miner. boarder.
living at ; 112,beaumont street,beswick,manchester,lancashire.
This ties up with the 1881 census see W bowker - Beswick is in the Manchester area so at least we know that JH married Jane nee Bowker
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Hi Guys
Now I am getting confused
I have 2 census records for 1891
john hindley age 26. b. ashton. occ. boiler stoker. head.
jane age 25. b. manchester. wife.
george age 6. b. manchester. son.
john william hindley age 4. b. ditto. son.
hannah age 1. b. ditto. daughter.
william bowker age 19. b. manchester. occ. coal miner. boarder.
living at ; 112,beaumont street,beswick,manchester,lancashire.
and
John Hindley age 45 Born Widnes Iron Forge man
Wife Mary 39
John 16 born Ashton
Robert 11
Benjamin 8
Charles 7
Sarah Bowker widow 50
William Bowker 18 Coal Miner born Liverpool
family living in Bradford
I believe Bradford is very very near to Beswick
so whats the odds of 2 William Bowkers both coal miners
By the way Bradford had a coal mine
??? ??? ???
Ray
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Hi Ray.
Hope you are ok. Just to clarify for you, the first census is the 1891 for John William Hindley and the other census is 1881 and that is John Hindley, iron forge man (blind) and John William is 16 years old and a iron forge boy. The family are living at 85 Simpson St.
Sarah Bowker is Jane`s mother and her husband was John Bowker. I haven't done much research on the Bowker family.
Look forward to hearing from you soon,
Jackie.
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Hi Jackie
Thanks for the reply - I realise the census dates and the two john's I don't have a problem with that but my concern is that in both cases there is a William Bowker aged 18 on one and 19 on the other with Sarah Bowker on the 1881 census the odds that William Bowker is on both is my concern, he is listed as a coal miner so I cant believe in 1881 he would have been a miner at an age of 8 that is if the census age is incorrect
can you see my dilemma
will keep going I still believe he have a connection with the families
will keep in touch
Ray :)
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Hi manu.
I realised that I made a mistake with Jane`s mother, it actually is Elizabeth Bowker and her husband is John. She also had a brother George who is one of her witnesses at her wedding. I am trying to find out if Sarah Bowker is related via John Bowker. I need to sit down and study my notes properly. Have you found any fresh information.?
Hope to hear from you soon,
Regards.
Jackie
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Hi Jackie
You mentioned in a previous post "" I did find recently on Ancestry a John Hindley of 85 Simpsom Street enlisted into the Militia army in 1883 for a period of six years and there is a physical description of him. On the 1881 census that is where our Hindley family is residing. I need to look at my research as i am sure there is a John Hindley that was a Chelsea pensioner on the 1861/1871 census who may be his father
I cannot find the Ancestry link can you point me in the right direction
cheers Ray