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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: ptdrifter on Saturday 08 March 08 01:07 GMT (UK)
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Hi
My Dad was a Gunner in the RA ATK. Served in the 1st Army . Went to Africa, then Italy , then Austria.
His service record medal entitlement shows Africa Star with 1st Army Clasp, Italy Star, 39-45 Star and the War Medal.
Whenever I have seen this sort of group before there has always been a Defence Medal, any ideas as to why not in this case.
Fred
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Not all qualified for the Defence Medal....
The criteria were quite strict, so if he wasn't subject to "air attack" etc in this country, he wouldn't get it!
The Northamptons served in Burma, North Africa, Italy and the Low Countries but a lot, if not most of the old boys with whom I attend Regt reunions, have no Defence Medals.
My dad was one of the few who did have one, but he had previous service in the Home Guard prior to being called up....
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Thanks Scrimnet
I think it's a case of me misreading the medal qualifiaction rules. I am sure they are different every time. :)
Fred
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Hi Fred :)
Can't help with info on your Dad Fred,I've got to bow to Scrim's knowledge regarding this. I just came in to say I think your avatar is grrreat!!! 8)
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Thanks Atom
It's a fave album cover from years gone by
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Awarded to service personnel for three years' service at home or six months' service overseas in territories subjected to air attack or otherwise closely threatened. Personnel of Anti-Aircraft Command, RAF ground crews, Dominion forces stationed in the UK, the Home Guard, Civil Defence, National Fire Service and many other civilian units qualified for the medal.
BARS
There was no bar to this medal.
DESCRIPTION
A circular, medal, 1.42 inches in diameter.
OBVERSE
The obverse shows the uncrowned coinage effigy of King George VI, facing left, and the legend: GEORGEIVS VI D: BR: OMN: REX F: D: IND: IMP:
REVERSE
On the reverse, the Royal Crown rests on the stump of an oak tree, flanked by a lion and a lioness. At the top left is the date 1939, and at the top right, the date 1945. In exergue, though not ruled off, is the wording: THE DEFENCE/MEDAL.
MOUNTING
A plain, straight, non-swivelling suspender with a single-toe claw.
RIBBON
The light green ribbon is 1.25 inches wide with a central stripe of orange (0.5" wide) and a narrow black stripe in the middle of each green stripe. The orange (flame colour) represents the enemy attacks on the green land of England and the black represents the black-outs.
NAMING
DATES
The award was established on 16 August 1945.
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My Dad was in the argyll & sutherland highlanders
Served in the 1st Army . North Africa, & Italy ,
He got 1939/45 star, Africa Star 1st Army clasp, Italy star, Defence medal,
War medal 1939/45.
As your dad was there as well surely he is entitled to it.
regards Mick
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I think Scrimnet rigth
my dad fought at the battle of LONGSTOP HILL.
and was wounded
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ptdrifter
If you know which Battalion of AT RA your dad was in, please let me know and I'll try to find some history of what they were doing before landing in North Africa, and after.
My father-in law was also in North Africa with the 1st Army but he spent the first two years in UK with the 9th North Staffordshire Regiment defending the coast from impeding invasion and retraining in the 51st Royal Tank Regiment. As far as I can remember he had the Defence Medal, but I could be wrong, his medals are in the Bovington Tank Museum, too far for me to pop in for a quick reminder!
ourbill
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hi Ourbill
Very kind offer.
Dad joined in 1942, and was posted to the 72nd ATK.
I have uploaded the relevant page to
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/fredzhedz/images/posting.jpg
Thanks
Fred
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The medal list
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Oh dear....I forgot to mention....
http://d-daydodgers.com/
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I’ve had a look in two books, I hope I’m not telling things you already know, when I finished writing this and read your post again it is plain that you know where your dad was till the end of the war. Still, I will send it regardless of the fact that you might know these details such as they are from my limited searchings and knowledge of RA.
1. Orders of Battle by Lt-Col H.F Joslen
2. the Official History of WW2 Vol. IV by Maj-Gen Playfair
72 A/Tk Regiment
From number 1. There are two references.
a. The 72 A/Tk was part of the 6th Armoured Division from 1.6.1942 to 31.8.45. As you say the main theatres of operations were UK, North Africa, Italy and Austria. There is also a list of battles, I can send this if you want later.
b. The other reference is the 6th Support Group which was disbanded in UK 1 June 1942 and was also part of 6th Armd Division.
From number 2. There are three refs.
a. Concerns fighting in Tunisia in the Kasserine area February 1943. 72 A/Tk is mentioned as being part of the force in the Sbiba area.
b. This ref. is quite a coincidence. April 1943 in the area of Pichon 6th Armoured Division was part of 9th Corps. In the formations were the 1st Derby Yeomanry, the 51st RTR (less a squadron) my father-in law’s regiment and the 72nd A/Tk Regt. RA.
c. This ref. mentions 72nd A/Tk as part of 46th Division in the Djebel bou Kournine area. 1st Army begins the offensive April 1943.
The first book will give the bare outline of Army units and the second book will put some detail. If you can get your hands on a copy of Playfair’s book, IMHO is is worth the read, it is only about the war in North Africa till the defeat of German forces. Have you tried to get the War Diaries of the 72 A/Tk Reg. ?
All this doesn't help much with your Defence Medal but I found it interesting all the same.
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Hi ourbill
Thanks for the info. I have only recently got a copy of my Dad's service record, and that only states the countries he served in, no mention of specific actions/battles. If you do have a list I would appreciate it .
I have not found the war diaries yet.
I will look for a copy of the books you mention, may fill in the gaps. Dad talked very little about the war, we don't even know what he did with his medals, no one ever saw them :(
Regards
Fred
Modified : Have been sent this link http://battlefieldsww2.50megs.com/6th_armoured_division.htm
seems to list the battles
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ptdrifter
My father-in-law was also a gunner in the RA with the 1st Army ( George Moore Cooper ), he served in North Africa, France, Germany, Italy, Austria.
He was awarded the North Africa Star with the 1st Army Clasp, France & Germany Star, Italy Star, 39-45 Star and the 39-45 War Medal.
No Defence though, as he served in Europe, however...my Grandfather was in the AFS/NFS all through the war and he was awarded the Defence Medal.
All I know so far is that he was part of 'Torchwood' in North Africa, so I'm hoping to trace his war movements.
Pels 66