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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cork => Topic started by: brionne on Tuesday 11 January 05 17:25 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone tell me where soldiers and their families would have been buried,Circa 1885/7.
My relative was a Q.M.S.M,in Royal Engineers Depot at Cork,died there 1887.
Thanks. Brionne.
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Hi, There are a few people who might be able to help. In particular I know of a retired Cmdt. of the Irish Army who has a strong interest in Fam. and local History.I will ask him for advice and get back to you. Regards,Kevin, Co Cork,Ireland.
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Thanks Kevin, my Gt Grandfather was found drowned on the Strand at Grabbel, Dec 1887.name Thomas McPherson born Scotland 1838.
His wife had died 1885 after birth of 6th child at Cork Barracks 1885.
Any help appreciated .
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Hi Brionne, I'll ask that guy over the next week or so.....have you a name for Thomas's wife and child? Thomas died in Grabbel? Not wanting to sound obvious but that's overseas...yes? Regards,Kevin.
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Hi Brionne,
Okay I am working from memory here so keep with me. Grabbel could be Grabbal Strand, There is a Grabbal Bay in West Cork. He was in the Royal Engineer's therefore it is possible that he was stationed at Camdon. This was a large Naval base just across the way from Cobh (Queenstown) and next to Spike Island. If your relative was drowned then it is possible that he was washed up onto Grabbal bay. Geographically this would make sense. By the way I'm not sure if I am spelling that right but it is pronounced "Grab all".
I know that in Victoria Barracks (now Collins') had a grave yard near by for soldiers and their families but over the years this was damaged and eventually the headstones were removed and placed around the boundary walls. I do not know were Camden Naval base buried their dead but that is very easily found out. Contact Collins' Barracks, Cork. They recently opened a museum and the lads that run it are brilliant and really know their stuff.
I hope this has been useful, I could, however, be way off the point.
Mitch
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Mitch, Thanks for your help.Your info gives me more to go on.Didnt know about the new museum at Collins Barracks,thats good news.Sorry for my delay in replying.
Brionne.
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My mother was born to an army family in 1914. Her father was in the A.S.C. She was a twin and , I believe, her twin brother, Sidney Mitchell died as an infant. I would be interested to know if Sidney, son of Stephen Mitchell, was buried in this cemetery and thedate.. Thanks , in anticipation.. Ron H.
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Hi Brionne,
This is way past time but I was checking a new message and came across the post, so the information may be outdated for you know.
Just to let you and the other posters know that there are just 230 headstones left in the military cemetery at Assumption Hill Cork. The inscriptions on these have been eroded greatly over the last two years because of their position around a boundary wall of the cemetery as Mitch has said. About 2 years ago I started a survey of the cemetery and have a full list of the names that were on those remaining headstones, but unfortunately the name McPherson is not on the list. There were about 900 burials at the cemetery since it was opened in 1849 up to 1922 with just a few more after that date so they could be buried there but I could never find any full list of burials and to the best of my knowledge no list is on record. This cemetery has been redeveloped as a park for the area and is being well looked after now.
In relation to Graball bay or strand, this is located at Crosshaven Co Cork which is almost under the walls of Fort Camden, there is no cemetery associated with this fort but across the harbour on the opposite point is Fort Davis (formally Fort Carlisle), there is a military cemetery there but again the name McPherson is not on those headstones.
Two other cemetery’s associated with military deaths are the old Clonmel Cemetery at Cobh and the Corkbeg cemetery at Whitegate, I have some photos from those and will go through them to see if the name shows up.
Ron,
Unfortunately the name Mitchell is not on any of those two lists, but I will kepp an eye out for the name.
Regards,
Sean
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Hi Sean,
Very many thanks for your latest info on the old military Assumption Hill cemetery in Cork.
Its strange that no records are kept of the burials here at Kew Records.
In fact Kew deny any knowledge of my relative, I have had 2 different researchers looking for him there bysides searching myself.The Army records of his 2 sons were found and in each case the father was stated as being stationed at Cork Depot and also on his death certificate.
Address being,
No 1 Military Road, Cork.
This is at the top of the Hill before the Barracks if I remember rightly.
It may be that he had come out of the Army before he died but would expect to find something recorded somewhere.
The only thing I have not yet tried is a Church Burial record.
The Parish in that area for Protestants would have been ST ANNS.
Rambling on,thanks again,
Brionne.
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Hi Brionne,
You are right about the location of Military Hill and you are also right about the burials records not being held at Kew, I remember a few years ago when I started this project I contacted them and they informed me that any records would have been held here in Ireland, however trying to find them is near to impossible. I will contact the RCB in Dublin next week to see if they have any record of a Thomas McPherson died Dec 1887 and let you know.
Regards,
Sean.
Hi Ron,
In relation to Stephen Mitchell I assume that you know they were living at 193.2 Old Youghal Road, Cork City, Husband of Hannah, father of Mary Josephine.
Regards,
Sean
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Hi Brionne. Graball Bay/Strand is down in Crosshaven Ireland ,a bit away from Camden.
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Thanks for all replies,
As this post goes back 5 years,have infact got a DEATH CERT 1887 for the correct Thomas McPherson from Lombard St,Dublin in the meantime.
Thats how I got the Military Rd address,showing an inquest was held.
Have also searched all Cork newspapers for anything relevant regarding his drowning or Inquest when I was over.
There must be something in Kew Records somewhere,the family folklore has always said that he was up to something devious,but doubt if I shall ever get to the truth of what he was actually up to.
This guy spent several years at Woolwich Arsenal in the RE ,and married a French girl,before being posted to Cork.
They had 6 children,one was put into the British Army,the other 5 to the Royal Hibernian School in Phoenix Park Dublin,when both parents were deceased.
Their mother had died first in 1885 in childbirth Cork Depot.
Thanks for all input on this,
Brionne.
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About 2 years ago I started a survey of the cemetery and have a full list of the names that were on those remaining headstones,
Sean, sorry to revive a really old thread, but don't suppose you have any records of a grave of Sergeant John Kelly, late of the 67th Regiment of Foot, who died 21st February 1847 whilst with the Cork garrison.
He was from Dublin originally if thats any help?
Thanks
Andy
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Thanks Kevin, my Gt Grandfather was found drowned on the Strand at Grabbel, Dec 1887.name Thomas McPherson born Scotland 1838.
His wife had died 1885 after birth of 6th child at Cork Barracks 1885.
Any help appreciated .
Familysearch shows a possible
I think he is in Kinsale District register under M'Pherson (quite a common way of writing at the time)
death: Oct - Dec 1887 — Kinsale
record title: Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958
name: Thomas M'Pherson
registration district: Kinsale
estimated birth year: 1838
age (at death): 49
volume number: 5
page number: 245
digital folder number: 4200676
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Thanks a lot Deebel,
Yes, this is him alright.
How do I go about getting a copy of this Kinsale Death Entry.
Will there any extra info on there thats not already on his death cert that I have obtained from Lombard St,or is it the same.
Would like to find out where he was buried.
Doubt if there were funds for a headstone at the time,
Thanks,
Brionne.
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Thanks a lot Deebel,
Yes, this is him alright.
How do I go about getting a copy of this Kinsale Death Entry.
Will there any extra info on there thats not already on his death cert that I have obtained from Lombard St,or is it the same.
Would like to find out where he was buried.
Doubt if there were funds for a headstone at the time,
Thanks,
Brionne.
You can order certs from the GRO using the details mentioned above. If you obtained a research cert from the old GRO Office in Lombard street then you already have the full details. Death certs do not contain details on place of burial.
see :
Ordering Certs from GRO Roscommon (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433040.0.html)
Details included on a Death Cert (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433043.0.html)
Shane
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Brionne,
Can I leave that for an Irish expert to chip in and advise..
Rgds
deebel
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Thomas McPherson was found drowned on the beach at Carrigaline Kinsale,in 1887 have been trying to find out where he is buried for 30 years .He was in Royal Engineers,but may have finished with the Army at the time of his death.
Kew have no Army records for him,but he is listed as the father in both his sons Army records,John b 1878,RE,and Thomas b 1874,R Warwickshire,,, as Thomas McPherson Quartermaster Sergeant Royal Engineers.
Have pics of him in RE uniform.
Family were Presbyterian,lived 1 Militery Rd, Cork City.Wife Lucy Ann nee Chappell died 1885 in childbirth,no burial for her either.
6 children altogether,have traced all of them.
Are there now any more Protestant records on line,have not been able to trace these two.
Any help,appreciated,thanks,
Brionne.
Moderator Note : Merged with previous topic, as it contains further details
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The only generally available parish records for south west Co. Cork are RC - very few if any for other denominations. There are transcripts for parts North East Co. Cork on RootsIreland (pay-website) but only for RC and CofI as far as I can see. There are very few death/burials included in these.
There may not a burial record for Thomas, but there might be a headstone if his family could afford one.
Military road is in Cork North city just north of the Lower Glanmire Rd., so that's the area I'd try first for graveyards. Do you know which church they attended ?
Shane
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one possible way to find out which cemetery might be from a newspaper death notice if there was one - or even an article mentioning the death..
I think the Cork Examiner might be the best to try, but dont think it's available on any subscription site yet. Films might be available on microfilm in certain larger libraries.
Shane
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Thanks Shanew147,for your replies.
Actually searched the Cork Examiner in Cork Library years ago,but nothing.
Thomas was up to no good according to family folklore,and as wife predeceased him doubt if there is a headstone.but would have thought there would be something for Lucy 1885.
5 of children put in Royal Hib School Phoenix Park Dublin after fathers death,eldest Thomas to R W enlisted Fermoy.One daughter also put into Army in dom service Fermoy.
Its infuriating not being able to find them,got death certs from Lombard St, years back.
There are old posts on here re this,keep plugging away every so often.
Thanks for your interest,
Brionne.
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In the early 1880s there were three Presbyterian church that I see in the city, although they may not have their own graveyards.
Princes. St - Rev. William Whitelegge M.A.
(Carmichael) King Street - Rev. William Magill
Queen St. - Rev. Matthew Kerr
Might be worth searching for these streets to see which is nearest to Military Rd.
Shane
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Shane ,thank you so much,I had really given up all hope of finding them.
Just knew that they were always Presbyterian as daughter Annie English nee McPherson visited us in Wiltshire and always said they were,plus her mother Lucy was a French Huggenot.
Will see what I can find, Thank you,
Brionne.
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Do you have an exact date of death for Thomas McPherson?
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I think you can rule out the one in Princes St for a graveyard - no room for one that I can see.
Neither King or Queen street are showing up in Cork city on google maps for me, so maybe they no longer exist - or possibly have since been renamed. You need a Cork expert!
Shane
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A bit of brackground-
There was a Presbyterian congregation in Queen Street (Trinity) but c1862 they erected a new church. In 1862 a new congregation was organised in the old Queen Street Church.
1887- Matthew Kerr minister of Queen St. "for many years devoted much of his time to visiting ships at the quays and inviting sailors to the house of prayer on the Lord's Day.
In 1928 Queen St. was united with Trinty to form the Trinity United Presbyterian Church, Cork.
1887- William Magill minister of Trinity (also know as Scots Presbyterian Church).
I can't find a Presbyterian minister named Whitelegge anywhere in Ireland but "Dr. Sloane resigned in 1844 from what up till then was known as Princes Street, Cork" is listed under Trinity.
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Thanks so much for linking up to the posts.
Death Thomas 02/12/1887,found drowned on Grabbel Strand .
Other info,No Pension Records at Kew,they say he never was,,,,,
Army Number 6579 Royal Engineers,on 1861 and 1871 in RE.
married next Gravesend Kent 24/12/1871.
Brionne.
Aghadowey,thanks for finding Presbyterian Church info in Cork.have almost given up on finding where they are buried.
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Most Presbyterian churches in cities do not have burial ground but I'm not familiar with Cork. Some cemeteries and records mentioned here-
http://www.corkarchives.ie/genealogy/sourcesinthearchives/
Photo of Trinity Presbyterian here-
http://corkgen.org/publicgenealogy/cork/potpourri/corkancestors.com/Corkpresbyterian.htm
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Thanks for these links there was nothing available when I last visited Cork Library ten or more years ago,will have a good detailed go through this lot now.looks hopeful,
Brionne.
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Queen St is now Father Mathew St; King St is now MacCurtain St. The latter would be where Trinity Presbyterian Church is and this would be closer to Military Rd.
Sorry if I missed this somewhere on the thread but what occupation is listed for him on the death cert? Also, do you know if he lived at Military Rd until he died? Given where his body was found I wonder if you need to spread the net wider than cemeteries in the city.
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Thanks Sonas,death details as follows.
Thomas McPherson found on the Strand at Grabel,on Dec 2nd 1887.
[no at side 121,
Male,
Married.
Age last birthday, 49 years.
Rank,Profession,Occupation,Quarter Master Sergt R C. imagine this should be R.E.
Certified cause of death,Drowning Accidental,Unknown.
Information received from, M.J.Morgan,Coroner Co Cork,The Laurels,Maroyke,Cork.
When registered, Dec 6th 1887.
Signature of Registrar, George Walter.
Death registered in District of Carrigaline,in Supertinents District of Kinsale. County Cork.
Cert says married but wife Lucy died 1885 Barrackton, Cork.
May be a second marriage.but not found one.
Lucy ,address on her death cert, 8 Victoria Street, Barrackton,Cork.
Brionne.
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A bit more info,
Death Lucy Anne McPherson 26 January 1885, 8 Victoria Street, Barrackton,
Wife of Thomas McPherson Royal Engineer. 35 years.
Cause of death,Uetro Peritonitis,consequent on partuition.Certified.
Thomas McPherson,husband present at death, 8 Victoria St Barrackton
Reg by husband 27th January 1885.
Registrar,F Cunningham, Assistant.
Apologies everyone,gave the wrong last known address,family were at Militery Rd earlier
when some of children born.
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There is an 1886 listing for a Thomas McPherson marriage in Cork. Have you checked this one out?
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FY44-338
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There is an 1886 listing for a Thomas McPherson marriage in Cork. Have you checked this one out?
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/FY44-338
On same page in register are 2 possible brides-
Fanny Otter/Fanny Cook (likely married previously)
Sarah Rivett Taylor
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It looks like there were Royal Engineers in Fort Camden near where he was found. The death cert doesn't say he was ex-army so assuming it's accurate, if he was stationed at Camden, the nearest cemeteries would be those in Crosshaven. Templebreedy Cemetery next to ruins of St Matthew's Church of Ireland. There's a St Patrick's cemetery as well that I assume is attached to RC Church but don't know if it was open at the time. I assume the next nearest cemeteries would be those that serve Carrigaline.
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Yes,thanks to Aghadowey and Sonas,have found the possible marriage and sent an email, as could not fill in the on line form, as at that point did not have a brides name.waiting on reply.
Also found the following piece weeks ago,but unfortunately have lost the link.
,,,,,McPherson an ex British Army Sergeant Major was to be executed as a spy,[ IRA Mallow 1921]
He had been living in Mallow for some years.
This came from an Irish web site, but may or may not be my man,due to age gap,but his son perhaps,1921 being a much later era.
Very interested to know if there is a second marriage,but Kew flatly deny any Pension Records.
Brionne
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"The Dead of the Irish Revolution project cites examples of ex-soldiers like William McPherson of Mallow, Co Cork or John Donohoe of Ratoath, Co Meath, both of whom had served with the Dublin Fusiliers. McPherson was bundled into a car on July 7th, 1921. His body was found two miles outside Mallow with a bullet in the chest. A piece of paper had been pinned to his coat with the legend "Convicted Spy. Spies and informers in Mallow beware. We are on your track. IRA.""
http://www.irishtimes.com/focus/thesomme/p8bott.htm
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Many thanks for posting the accurate gen on this,can count out my ,,,Fellow,,,,then.
Problem is my PC skills are not as good as you younger people.
Will get the Cork marriage definitely,need to confirm that one way or the other.
May need to make another visit in the Spring and go to all the burial grounds,and Presbyterian Churches in the Cork area that you have kindly sorted out. I only found out about the guys eldest son also Thomas, by visiting Findlaters in Parnell Sq,Dub,because an old Irish relative had remembered her mother saying Tom was living/working there after he came out of R Warwicks.
Thanks again Brionne.
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Now confirmed that a Thomas M Pherson married a Fanny Otter nee Cook in Cork somewhere 1886
or late 1885.will sent for cert.
Fanny McPherson appears on both Free Irish Census 1901 and 1911.
1901 Fanny MacPherson 48 widow b England.Cook domestic.
George Otter son16 stable boy,b Cork City.
Charles MacPherson son14 scholar,b Cahir Co Tipperary.
11 Betaghstown[Julianstown]Meath.
1911 Fanny McPherson 59 widow Head b England.Church of Ireland.
George Otter son 25 railway shunter b Cork
10 Town Park,Dundalk, rural Louth.
No sign of Charles but there is a possible gunner RA, married one at Woolwich,states he is born in Rochester Kent,but wife from Fermoy Co Cork and his age is right.
Charles McPherson birth.
Royal Engineers Cahir Ireland 1886 vol 663,p 89.
So all looks promising,thank you Aghadowey ,Sonas and all for so much useful help.
Brionne
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Found Fanny McPherson as next of kin for the eldest son also Thomas,on the boys Army History record age 14,enlisted Tipperary 5 March 1887,just 3 months after father found drowned.Fannys name crossed out and wifes name Florence Rose put on,later date.
Wonder now if Thomas senior had been at Tipperary or Cahir when drowned,but must have still been serving in RE.
Brionne
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Glad that we've been able to help you find more information on the family :)
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Its beginning to come together at last.following info from FindMyPast.
Charles McPherson Army no, 7630 Sergt
Intial C.
Birth Place Cahir Co Tipperary.
Enlisted Drogheda Co Louth.
Regiment, Prince Of Wales Royal Leinster Regiment l Royal Canadians]
2nd Battalion.
Died 20 October 1914.
Killed in action France and Flanders.
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Will continue to post as this is quite an interesting story.Birth registered 2/12/1886
Birth Charles McPherson 20th Nov 1886 Cahir Royal Engineers Depot.
Parents Fanny and Thomas McPherson. Q.M.Sergt. by T.Rothwell.Wes.
Childs father Thomas found drowned exactly 12 months later,need to look further afield for his burial place.
Brionne
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Hi,
The nearest Church of Ireland cemetery to Graball bay and Camden Fort is Templebreedy.
It might be worth your while contacting the parish office for the Church of Ireland Crosshaven
to see if they have burial records for your ancestor.
If you google Church of Ireland Crosshaven this first site is the correct one and to the side is a map showing
Crosshaven and Graball , very close to each other.
http://www.google.ie/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADSA_enIE380IE380&q=church+of+ireland+crosshaven (http://www.google.ie/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADSA_enIE380IE380&q=church+of+ireland+crosshaven)
The office email is office.templebreedy@cork.anglican.org and they are available on
Tues, Wed, & Thurs from 9.30 to 12.30
Hope this might be some help to you
Mary
Celtic Liberty
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Mary,thank you so much for this information,will have to write to them as none of Irish emails appear to get through at present.
Have found that second wife Fanny McPherson did not marry again,her death is listed on Family Search in Drogheda 1928.
Also trying to find a marriage for Charles McPherson,not listed under army Marriages.
This is a complete new line,if Charles married there may well be ,,,live,,relatives somewhere.
Thanks for your interest,
Brionne.
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Hi
I had a look at a book Presbyterians in the City of Cork by Rev. A S Cromie to see
if there might have been any reference to the McPhersons and none.
However there are a few references to the military.
Trinity Presbyterian church , Summerhill was officialy opened in 1861 and in 1863
a school in the grounds of the church was opened. In the book it mentions that
some children of military personnel stationed nearby ( this would be Barrackton)
attended school here. This school was named the "Carmichael "School after
John Carmichael J.P as he was the largest contributor towards the cost of the building.
The foundation stone for the female school was laid in 1874.
There is also a reference to the Garrison troops entering the church through the Ceremonial
entrance, enhanced by a beautiful stone carved archway.
More than likely Lucy Anne McPherson would have been buried at the barracks cemetery, as
soldiers family members would have been interred there.
The other two possibilities I would think would be St. Luke ( Church of Ireland) Douglas,
website
http://www.douglas.cork.anglican.org/contact.htm
or St Finbarrs cemetery, Glasheen Road, Cork which is multidenominational -
you could contact the Cork City council and they might be able to look up the records for
you
http://www.corkcity.ie/services/recreationsport/cemeteries/
or telephone the cemetery supervisor yourself by phone see above site.
That's it for now
Mary
Celtic Liberty
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Very many thanks Mary for taking so much trouble on this information.
Yes,would imagine that Lucy McPherson must be buried in the Garrison cemetery,your links have given me plenty of scope for making contacts.The last time I was in Cork just for a day did not get to Collins Barracks Museum,and time before it was closed that day.May take a trip over in the Spring.
Thanks again Brionne.
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Received a most helpful email yesterday from the Templebreedy Parish Office at Crosshaven.
No burial record for Thomas McPherson found.
Other information received,,,,,,,,more than half of the Church of Ireland Registers were destroyed in the 1922 fire at the Public Records Office Dublin.
Any remaining records that survived are held at the Church of Irelands Representative Church Body Library,Dublin,who do not search,but will say which records they hold.
Brionne
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A nice speedy response from Templebreedy/Crosshaven parish office, that's what I like.
That was helpful of them. At least you can rule that out now.
Mary
Celtic Liberty
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Now have the youngest son of Charles Edward McPherson birth details.
Alan McPherson b Woolwich 1913.
mother, Kathleen McPherson,formerly, O Connor.
father C.E McPherson,Gunner R.G.A of 10 Gildersome St Woolwich.
This is a whole new unknown McPherson line.If anyone reading this on here that may have a family connection,please do get in touch with me by PM.
Thanks Brionne.[Janet Mac]
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Thank you for all help received on this topic ,which is now completed.
Brionne.
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Having shelved trying to find where Thomas McPherson was buried in Cork 1887 for the time being,now unearthed another mystery.that would be grateful for help with.re his son Charles from his second marriage to Fanny Cook.
1911 Census shows Kate McPherson age 27 b Fermoy,
[with husband Charles RHA and 2 children at Woolwich Kent.]
The image gives her having 3 living children,but there are only two listed,
unable to find a previous marriage for her in England or Wales,so there must have
been a child born in Ireland before her marriage c1907 to Charles,or a previous marriage somewhere.
The only possible one is Charles McPherson 1903 Clonmel,which may be out of
wedlock.
This one shows up 1911 with an army family in Bulford Wilts with an Ellen McPherson
No men listed at all ,must have been overseas.
Any thoughts anyone,thanks.
Brionne.
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Regarding Thomas Holman McPherson 1838-1887 unknown burial place in Cork.
Received confirmation yesterday that there is definitely no Presbyterian Burial Record for him anywhere in the Cork area.
There are however two possibles [couple],buried in Deans Grange Cemetery Blackrock Co Dublin,which dates fit,in the name of HOMAN and HOLMAN.
Other family members buried there later.
Now getting more info.
Brionne
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That's great news. Have you checked out the www.igp-web/archives site
Nealy all of the headstones and transcriptions are on that site see Homan -
http://search.freefind.com/find.html?si=13812782&pid=r&n=0&_charset_=utf-8&bcd=%C3%B7&query=homan+&s=dublin&s=dublinstones
or you could send an email directly to the manager there he is really helpful and would be
able to give you the details of who might have been interred in a particular plot, you
must have at least one date of death so he could loop up the register.
Do you think the story that he drowned in Cork may not be correct after all??
Mary
Celtic Liberty
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Thanks Mary,its not confirmed yet that they are in Deans Grange,will make contact directly with the manager shortly.Its certainly possible that Lucy McPherson could be there,in the name of HOLMAN,she is supposed to have come from a well known French business family,and definitely spoke French according to her daughter who actually gave me this info in the 1960s,when visiting us in Wiltshire.This daughter is also buried there. [ It does not answer the question why the surname McPherson was not used.]
or why Kew Records flatly deny any knowledge of Thomas Holman McPherson even being in the Royal Engineers,or Army generally,in spite of his name being on other records,1861,1871,RE School at Woolwich,marriage certificate etc.No Army Records having ever been found in spite of 2 researchers looking for them,and myself.
Yes, he did drown,I have an Irish Death Cert copy which I obtained myself in Lombard St,Dub.This was my initial starting point,years ago.Strangely there is no Army death record for him,as he was still serving when the new son Charles was born in 1886,an Army Chaplain baptised the child at Cahir.RE Depot 2/12/1886,as son of Thomas and Fanny McPherson.
The Presbyterian Pastor in Cork has been most helpful,and thinks they are probably buried in the Military Cemetery,now long gone as you know,they do not appear on the list of names taken from headstones and later records for this cemetery,and I know that Kew do not have any records for it either.This cemetery was largely abandoned after 1922,and never taken over by the British Commonwealth War Graves Commision,there are other Irish buried there,plus the fact that any records may well have been destroyed in the Dublin fire.
Thanks again for your interest,Brionne.
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More info,,,,,, Deans Grange Cemetery Black Rock very kindly replied today,unfortunately the possible couple I found there,turned out to be children.
So the search for the burial place of Thomas Holman McPherson and his first wife Lucy McPherson is still unresolved.
Brionne.
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Am now able to confirm that Thomas McPherson Quarter Master Sergeant and Fanny Otter married at
Trinity Presbyterian Church Cork City on 8th January 1886 by License.His father John McPherson, Weaver,
brides father William Cook, Farmer.
Still no burial record for Thomas anywhere,but as he was definitely still serving in the Royal Engineers,at time of his death,he must be in the Military cemetery with also first wife Lucy Ann.Second wife Fanny McPherson died age 73,widow, 14th Dec 1928, St Marys Cottages, Drogheda,informant son George Otter.
Brionne.
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Dincur has very kindly found the following death for a MacPherson published,,,,from[ FindMyPast.]
Manchester Evening News Saturday 3rd December 1887
The dead body of Quartermaster Sergeant MacPherson,
stationed at Fort Camden,Cork,was discovered on the strand
near Grabell Bay yesterday afternoon.
Now just need to find where he is buried
Brionne
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Well its six years since my last post and still no sign of the burial records for this couple,in the Cork area.
As there has been an ever increasing amount of information re Irish Records coming on line, just wonder if there are any new records which may include one or either of these two.
Thomas McPherson/or Lucy Ann M Pherson.
Pretty sure these were lost in the Dublin fire,but would some kind person have yet another look,Many thanks in advance,Brionne.
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If you go to
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp
and do this Search you will find his Death registration (Kinsale)
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http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ns2/ gets one Death results for McPherson anywhere
BUT if you look through them there is a Lucy on Page 2
Name LUCY MCPHERSON
Date of Death 1885
Group Registration ID 6064643
SR District/Reg Area Cork
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1885/06292/4803234.pdf
which MIGHT be your Lucy
plus if you look through them you might get Parents etc...
You can also Select Cork ones from List on Left or any known locations
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There was a Post Mortem...so might get clues from Newspaper items?
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Many thanks for your time Hallmark.
I obtained both death certificates many years ago.
Have had a lot of past help too regarding Presbyterian Churches in the Cork area c 1885/7.
Assume that Lucy may be be buried in the Military Cemetery,close to the Barracks,[as thats where she died,]now a recreation area.I actually visited this cemetery long ago,when it had a large hole blown in an outside wall,and a lot of the headstones were still insitu, the whole area badly hit by vandals.
Kew have always denied having any Thomas M PHERSON records or EVEN THAT HE WAS IN THE BRITISH ARMY, I have proved that he was a QMS ROYAL ENGINEERS,stationed at Fort Camden at the time of his drowning December 1887.There had been a court case earlier 1887 when he went Absent without leave.
Checked also for PM results when once at Cork Library,but none where ever kept for this period.
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Yes,now found the death of Lucy McPherson which I already have.
26 Jan 1885 age 35 wife of Thomas McPherson Royal Engineers.
U tero Peritonitis consequent of parturition
8 Victoria Street Barrackton.
She had just delivered her 6th child,must have been an awful death resulting in peritonitis.
The baby survived.
Husband was present at her death,but he remarried the following year.
This period of British history was a difficult overbearing time,and does us no favours. Would JUST like to find out exactly where one of this couple were buried.
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So no sign of his Father's Death?
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Having shelved trying to find where Thomas McPherson was buried in Cork 1887 for the time being,now unearthed another mystery.that would be grateful for help with.re his son Charles from his second marriage to Fanny Cook.
1911 Census shows Kate McPherson age 27 b Fermoy,
[with husband Charles RHA and 2 children at Woolwich Kent.]
The image gives her having 3 living children,but there are only two listed,
unable to find a previous marriage for her in England or Wales,so there must have
been a child born in Ireland before her marriage c1907 to Charles,or a previous marriage somewhere.
The only possible one is Charles McPherson 1903 Clonmel,which may be out of
wedlock.
This one shows up 1911 with an army family in Bulford Wilts with an Ellen McPherson
No men listed at all ,must have been overseas.
Any thoughts anyone,thanks.
Brionne.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1906/10130/5685728.pdf
??
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Name CHARLES MC PHERSON
Date of Birth 18 May 1903
Group Registration ID 4815784
SR District/Reg Area Clonmel
Sex N/R
Mother's Birth Surname PHELAN
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1903/01866/1726806.pdf
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Hallmark,Thanks for putting me on the right track with the Irish Records.
This birth Charles McPherson 18 May 1903 Clonmel Doubt its correct one ,or applicable to my search.
Parents William and Bridget McPherson.nee Phelan.
Driver 11th Field Batt RA.
Many thanks for sorting that query.
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Reply 64 ,Re Death Thomas Holman McPherson.
Yes,have had certificate for many years.
Drowned, Found on strand Dec 1887 Grabbel Kinsale.
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Reply 64 ,Re Death Thomas Holman McPherson.
Yes,have had certificate for many years.
Drowned, Found on strand Dec 1887 Grabbel Kinsale.
Yes, I meant his father! ;D But afterwards saw he was in Scotland!
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Also found the following piece weeks ago,but unfortunately have lost the link.
,,,,,McPherson an ex British Army Sergeant Major was to be executed as a spy,[ IRA Mallow 1921]
He had been living in Mallow for some years.
This came from an Irish web site, but may or may not be my man,due to age gap,but his son perhaps,1921 being a much later era.
Very interested to know if there is a second marriage,but Kew flatly deny any Pension Records.
Brionne
Civilian William Alexander Macpherson (aged about 44) of Bridge Street, Mallow (Knockpogue near Mallow) P. 79 http://www.rootschat.com/links/01ns7/
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Hallmark,I did not believe this one was the correct ex soldier either,wrong regiment.
Many thanks for unearthing the truth, it all helps to give an accurate picture.
Hopefully one of the these days,I will get across to the Cork Military Museum,just may be lucky to get more info on Thomas McPherson from any local records held there.When I first started my research in Cork it was many years ago,just as this museum was starting up,so have never visited it.
Many thanks again for your time on this everlasting post,Brionne.