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Some Special Interests => Occupation Interests => Topic started by: skimble on Friday 07 March 08 02:04 GMT (UK)
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I have two ancestor's who both were occupied as Stuff Warehousemen. One was in 1891, one in 1901. They were both from Bradford so I'm presuming it was something to do with the wool textile industry. But I would like to know what 'Stuff' was.
Anyone know?
Thanks.
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Skimble
According to Rodney Hall's excellent Old Occupations List
http://rmhh.co.uk/occup/s.html
a stuff weaver wove "stuff".... a coarse cloth.
Jo :D
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a stuff weaver wove "stuff".... a coarse cloth.
;D
Thanks Jo, and thanks for the link.
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Hi Jo and skimble,
Was the coarse cloth woollen? My great grandfather was, in 1891 census, a " retired stuff merchant" in Bradford, and that makes me think the cloth must have been woolllen. Is that a reasonable assumption?
charlotte
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Hi charlotte & skimble
Funnily enough on Rodney Halls list the item above "stuff weaver" is a "stuff gownsman" apparently a junior barrister!
I wonder if this is because the fabric of their gown is rougher, 'less fine' than a senior barrister etc??
What do you think?
jo :)
Sorry charlotte that didn't really answer your question :-[ but it seems reasonable to me. Think I feel a 'google' coming on!!
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Hi Jo and Charlotte
I just assumed wool because they lived in Bradford.
I also have a brother to one of the Stuff Warehousemen who is a Wool warehouseman - this is in the same year, 1891. So there must have definitely been a difference between 'stuff' and 'wool'.
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Well as yet I can't find anything by Googling Stuff Warehouseman. However I did find another old occupations site here - http://web.ukonline.co.uk/thursday.handleigh/demography/occupations-wages-money/old-occupations/oldocc-s.htm
which says stuff is the coarse part of flax.
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http://www.rootschat.com/links/02wi/
Not sure if this clarifies things or not..... but interesting ;D ;D
jo
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Thanks Jo, interesting - it's amazing what 'stuff' can make! :)
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Stuffs. This term..may be applied to any woven textile,..but it more especially denotes those of worsted, made of long or ‘combing wool’... Stuffs are distinguished from other woollen cloths by the absence of any nap or pile. CAULFEILD & SAWARD Dict. Needlework page 465.
Stan
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Stan, thank you.
It seems that they must have been quite a call for it if you needed weavers and warehouseman designated just to work with stuff.
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That the dictionary referrs to stuff as the cloth for junior barristers' gowns makes sense. When a barrister becomes a QC, ie a senior barrister, he's said to "take silk" and has a different gown. And there is greater knowledge behind this comment tha just watching Rumpole!
And skimble, that there was a big use for "stuff" must have been so as my greatgrandfather who put in 1891 census " retired stuff merchant" as his occupation died in 1896 and left heaps on money.
charlotte
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Well I have dug a bit deeper and apparently stuff weavers in Kidderminster were making carpets. So my initial thought that 'stuff' wouldn't be very much was wrong.
Charlotte, it's good to hear your great grandfather made his money from it. It's amazing what you find out.
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Hi
Just caught up, thoroughly enjoyed this thread, on stuff (bad joke ;D ;D)
and I often wondered at why barristers 'took silk', now Iknow.
Cheers
jo
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Well Jo, just to further your interest, stuff weavers also dealt with silk -
Stuff
[stuffyn; stuffe; stufe; stuf]
A term with a variety of meanings and usages. In the Dictionary Archive it appears primarily as a TEXTILE being the general term for WORSTEDS, but particularly those made from mixed fibres, usually worsted and SILK,
From: 'Strainer - Stuffer', Dictionary of Traded Goods and Commodities, 1550-1820 (2007). URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=58887. Date accessed: 08 March 2008.
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That worsted has been mentioned fits with Bradford and thereabouts as I think it's correct to say that Bradford was[maybe still is?] a centre for worsted mills. Wakefield also and other parts of WRY.
Flax has also been mentioned- where would it have been grown?
Anyone any knowledge of this?
charlotte
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Charlotte,
I've had a look but can only find it grown in northern Europe, nothing more specific. Presumably it would have been grown locally but no idea's as to where.
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The growing of flax seems to have been fairly well established in Northern Ireland see the link:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/02y6/. I'm not sure, but isnt there a flax growers directory/census available in NI with regard to flax growing?
and reading around other odd articles also in Scotland, New Zealand and possibly Australia, but wether this was for export or home use I couldn't find out.
jo
And just in..... :D
http://www.rootschat.com/links/02y7/ at Askrigg!
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From the last couple of posts, flax seems to have been grown at some distance from Bradford & WRY. It presumably was woven here as its weaving required the same machinery as was installed in the Bradford mills.
Does that sound plausible?
charlotte
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Ok, after some more research, I have now found out that for the textile industry in the West Riding, the flax was grown in Ireland, shipped over to England and kept in warehouses in Bradford for weaving here.
It's all been fascinating finding all this out, particularly the stuffed gownsmen becoming silks.
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Presumably, for the junior barristers, the stuffed gownsmen, to become silks they did not stuff up their briefs.
charlotte
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This is very interesting because I now know what my neighbour`s child has been doing all day at school when I politely ask" What have you been doing today"?-the answer is usually-"stuff".Viktoria
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Viktoria, If someone was a "stuff" merchant today and had a dollar every time the word was used as you recount, it would be a very lucrative business ;D ;D
charlotte