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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Gloucestershire => Topic started by: lildav on Wednesday 05 March 08 20:15 GMT (UK)
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Hi everyone, I am having a problem finding any of my Selwyn ancestors. I have a Rebecca Selwyn married to a James Hobbs (my GGGrandad) in the parish of Avening on 27th April 1840. (I have the cert) Her father is down as James Selwyn, labourer. Rebecca died in Westhoughton Lancashire on 15/08/1888 age 71 making her birth year c 1819. I can find no trace of her, her father, mother or any siblings before this date of 1840. She & James had 11 children:-
Hannah 1842
John 1843
Joseph 1845
Sarah 1850
Betsy 1850
Elizabeth 1851
Mary 1854
Charles 1856
Thomas 1857
William 1860
Frederick 1861 (my GGrandad)
they were all born in Gloucestershire and the names Nagshead, Bagpath and Avening are all mentioned in the Hobbs family. Between 1871 and 1881 many of the Hobbs relations came up to Lancashire & settled in Westhoughton, Bolton. Can anyone shed any light on this for me? I would be eternally grateful, Lilian
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Hello Lilian
I'm not sure whether this is going to take you forward, but it seems from the censuses that Rebecca was born in Wiltshire.
You don't mention whether you have the census information ?
If not, shall I give you some details?
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Have you cross checked Rebecca's surname on the marriage certificate with information on one of her children's birth certificates to see if the Selwyn surname is confirmed by it?
There are no Selwyns in the Hankerton Wiltshire parish registers showing on the British Vital Records Index (BVRI). There are Selbys.
SELBY, Rebecca
Christening Date:21 Dec 1817 Hankerton, Wiltshire
Father:James SELBY
Mother:Ann
1861, 1871 and 1881 censuses Rebecca Hobbs gives her age as 44, 54 and 64
Regards
Valda
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Valda - I was pleased to see your post - I couldn't find any Selwyns born in Hankerton on any census either - thought I was losing it - or that it was bedtime!
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Good morning Mumm44 & Valda. I would be pleased with any info you can give me wherever it is from. The name on the wedding cert is definitely Selwyn for her and her father. I only have one childs birth cert, Frederick my GGrandad, and his Mother on that is down as Silbrey but I have had a look for that name and come up with nothing. After just looking at the 1871 census it says that Rebecca was born in Wiltshire. It seems that Selby is the way to go. I will have a good look later. I have to go out now for a little while. Thank you SO much, you have opened an avenue for me where I thought I might be stuck. You are both brill......... Will get back when I have got my head round it later. Thank you, Thank you, Lilian
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Lilian,
Hi everyone, I am having a problem finding any of my Selwyn ancestors. I have a Rebecca Selwyn married to a James Hobbs (my GGGrandad) in the parish of Avening on 27th April 1840. (I have the cert)
Snipped
As you do not give his father's name, does that mean you want nothing about James Hobbs? I have lots of stuff from Avening.
Regards
Chas
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Good morning Lilian
Do you have access to all censuses ? If not I'm happy to post some details for you.
Meanwhile - here's how I got to Hankerton.
1881 census - Rachel says b. Hankerton, Wilts.
1871 census - Rachel says b. Hamerton, Wilts
1861 census - Rachel says b. Ankeston, Glos
1851 census - rachel says b. Ankeston, Glos.
I googled Ankeston, Hamerton and Hankerton and Hankerton, Wilts was the only match. Hankeston is about 5 miles as the crow flies from Avening.
However, as Valda says, there are no Selwyns living there on any census and I couldn't find any on any census who said they were born there either.
There are a few Selbys tho. Living there and born there. I wonder whether it might be an idea to get another of the birth certificates - since your Fredericks is only a partial match? Does Rachel sign or make her mark? Perhaps she couldn't read and write and the registrar wrote what he thought ?
Meanwhile - I'll keep looking any see what comes up
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Lilian,
In my records (hand written) I have some data from Painswick N.C. church and in them for 1823 is:-
"Thos Son of William & Rebecca Selwyn of Chalford was born March 9th 1823 & baptized Aug 21st following by me
Rob Meek
Thos may not be a sibling of of your Rebecca, so Chalford & Painswick gives you hope plus somewhere to occupy your time ;)
Regards
Chas
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Don't think this fits at all, Chas.
The marriage certificate says her father was James ??? ;D
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This much be James and Ann then?
1841 HO107/1181/30 Folio 5 Page 2
Poole Keynes, Wilts
James Selby 50 Ag Lab
Ann 50
Charles 15
Joseph 15
Eliza 12
Harriet 10
James 5
All born in county
1851 HO107/1968 Folio 234 Page 6
Poole Keynes, Wilts
James Selby 62 Day Labourer Hankerton
Ann 61 Henton .....some.. norton Wiltshire
Joseph 26 Farm Labourer Poole Keynes
Eliza 22 Servant Poole Keynes
Sophia granddau 3wks Poole Keynes
Catherine :)
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Hi Catherine - think so - only slight hitch here is we don't have an absolute on it being Selby rather than Selwyn!
1840 marriages are typed up on findmypast, and that is clearly Selwyn; really need to see the original of the marriage to be a bit sure, don't you think?
However, gut feeling is yes, it should be Selby - which fits better with the name on Frederick's birth certificate, and explains why there are no Selwyns in Hankerton!
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Yes name needs confirming somehow, I wonder if the other birth certs would show name as Selby/variation of, rather than Selwyn :-\
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I've suggested that, cat - depends how rich Lilian feels, I guess!
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Lilian - I noticed my error too late but it's OK now but they might be cousins perhaps.
Your main problem is not so much a brick wall as a yawning chasm. If you check the LDS library of films you'll find the most of the films of C of E records end at 1812 yet many N.C. records' films go to 1837. Records for between those dates are to be found in the County record office I expect although somebody might have transcribed them.
You did not mention where the marriage was carried out so bear in mind that it might indicate their religeous persuasion and reduce the possible church records you need to search between 1812 and something like 1820.
Of course, there may be places near Avening which have had their records filmed but the data not extracted, so that also needs considering. Parloc - Google for the free parish locator prog. - and the procedure at http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/FindingBatchNos.html can be used in combination to find LDS filming information at nearby parishes.
Regards
Chas
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Hello everyone. I posted a message with the certificates on earlier but it does not seem to have worked. I will send the message again. Bear with me. Lilian
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Me again, Still not able to send both certs at once so I will try one ata time.
Chas.
I have quite a bit of info on the Hobbs family going back to William 1768 & Sarah Parslo 1758 but if you have anything earlier I would be grateful.
Mum44 & Cat
I am leaning towards Selby as Silbrey is very close. I will send for another cert to see if I can confirm this.
I will send this now and send the certs seperately and one at a time. Lilian
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wedding cert
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birth cert
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Hi, Finally got somewhere. Trying to send humungous sized attachments. Hope they are clear enough. Thanks for being patient with me, Regards Lilian
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Well done Lilian - although it is most definately his birth certificate!
nevertheless, it isn't anything like Selwyn, and, it seems, since she made her mark, Rebecca couldn't read and write - so the spelling wouldn't have been down to her. The registrar would write what he heard - and I would say he certainly didn't hear Selwyn !
Still think, in view of the difference, best to get a confirmation one if you can...
sorry - you posted theother one while I was typing this - will look at it now
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Oh dear - I was hoping James the father's occupation would help, but I can't read it ! :'(
Can anyone else ?
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I have had a magnifying glass over it and it says labourer but the long first L has faded on Rebeccas dads occupation. If you compare it with the other fathers occupation they are the same really.
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Well, the James Selby we're looking at in Wiltshire was a labourer - so there's another + but then labourer wasn't an unusual occupation!
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I am going to send for another birth cert although the most modern one is the one I have got as Frederick was the last child born. I will also have a good look at the Selby family and I am secretly hopeful here that they are the ones. When I get anything certain (or as near as I can be) I will post to let you know. Thank you all once again, you are a great bunch of people. Kindest regards, Lilian
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You're very welcome - glad to help.
Let us know what the other cert. says - we'll be waiting!
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Lilian,
As you know, in the 1841 census J & R H were living in somewhere named Nag's Head. That's not the name of a pub - at least there's no PH shown on the 100 year old map I have - it's small area with about 10 houses between Avening and Cherington.
I have quite a few 100 year old maps of the area and I've had look at five or six in the hope of finding a small area/cottage named Ankerton or something similar but no joy. Perhaps Hankerton might be it, but where one remembers growing up is not necessarily where one was born. And that's another spanner isn't it?
Regards
Chas
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Avening and Hankerton are relatively close to each other - try Google maps
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4HPEA_en-GBGB236GB236&tab=wl
As I've already stated Hankerton parish records for this period are indexed on the BVRI - for information on the BVRI (a set of CDs which add further records to the IGI) see
http://genoot.com/downloads/BVRI2/
SELBY, William
Christening Date:16 Feb 1812 Hankerton, Wiltshire
Father:James SELBY
Mother:Ann
SELBY, Mary-Ann
Christening Date:8 Jan 1815 Hankerton, Wiltshire
Father:James SELBY
Mother:Ann
SELBY, Thomas
Christening Date:3 Mar 1816 Hankerton, Wiltshire
Father:James SELBY
Mother:Ann
and as already given Rebecca
SELBY, Rebecca
Christening Date:21 Dec 1817 Hankerton, Wiltshire
Father:James SELBY
Mother:Ann
Poole Keynes Wiltshire where a James and Ann Selby have been found on the 1841 and 1851 censuses with younger children born in the same place does not have any coverage either on the IGI or the BVRI. This website allows you to see what parishes do have coverage on the IGI (both Anglican and non-conformist) and for what periods and allows you to access just the index(es) on the IGI for individual parish registers.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~hughwallis/
SELBY, James
Christening Date:15 Apr 1787 Hankerton, Wiltshire
Father:Thomas SELBY
Mother:Mary
Poole Keynes was in Cirencester registration district
Possible death registrations for James
Deaths Dec 1852
SELBY James Cirencester 6a 216
or
Deaths Mar 1854
Selby James Cirencester 6a 226
1861 census RG9 1783 folio 97
Poole Keynes, Wiltshire
Anne Selby 71 Henton, Wiltshire, Servant Widow Housekeeper
1871 census RG10 2646 folio 26
Somerford Keynes Wiltshire
Ann Selby 81 Head Widow Formerly Ag lab's wife Trowbridge Wiltshire
living next door to her married daughter Eliza Radway and her family
Deaths Mar 1874
SELBY Ann 85 Cirencester 6a 26[_9]
Not sure where that gets you with Ann's birthplace. The marriage of Ann and James Selby is not showing on either the IGI or BVRI.
Regards
Valda
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Hello,
Chas, I have been to Nagshead and, yes, it is only a road with a few houses. I spoke to a couple of the residents and have got an e-mail address from one of them and they will contact me if they find out anything. The problem for me is that I live up in Bolton, Lancashire and have only been able to get down there once since I started doing this research as I have a very old dog who cannot travel far and who I cannot leave so I will have to put my next visit off for a bit. Many thanks for your input, I really do appreciate the time you put in,
Valda, I am quite new to this research so I will read and inwardly digest what you have kindly posted and I am sure I will be able to make some sense of it. The web sites you quote are new to me so I am on a great learning curve. From idiot to dork in 2 years. Still, we all have to learn don't we. Many thanks and I will post again when I get it all down.
Wonderful site, brilliant people. Lilian
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Nowt to do with your problem but it's interesting to note that Avening and Cherington are in the Domesday book - Aveninge: King's land with 5 mills and a hawk's eerie: Ceringtone: Geoffrey from Miles Crispin mill.
Regards
Chas
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Hello everybody, Its me again with an update on my SELBY relation. You were right, it was Selby. I sent for another birth cert and it was there Whoopeeeeee. I have since found dozens of ancestors and living relations so very well done.XXXXXXXXX
I have another problem regarding writing on a death cert but I don't know whether to post it here or somewhere else. It is not regarding Selby. Please advise.
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You can either put it on this message but then it might only attract the few of us who have been answering your original question and we might not be able to help you, or you can start a new message which will be seen by other people but perhaps not us.
Your choice really.
Regards
Valda
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Thanks Valda, I put it in the common room and have an answer already.. Bye Lilian
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Hi Lilian, I hope that you get this message. I think I have also come accrses you on GenesReunited. I cannot help with your direct query, but I have added some details onto GenesReunited as I am descended from James Hobbs, who is my gt (x3) grandfather. Charles daughter Emily married Richard Ogden, and their son Thomas Ogden was my grandfather.
I also found a post on CuriousFox from the great grtandson of Charles and Catherine Hobbs, but it was in 2005, but I emailed anyway. It would be great to hear from you.