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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Tephra on Tuesday 04 March 08 09:02 GMT (UK)
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Welcome to this weeks Scavenger Hunt and we have Cathayb and her Henry this week. Cathy has three people to look for, but the main one is Henry Birch/Birchon born 1839.
Go for it folks, I know you can do it.
Good Luck and Good Hunting.
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Right my brick walls are as follows.
Henry Birch/Birchon b.1839. I cant find his parents He appears in Plymouth 1851, I think with a Charlotte Birch widow who may be his mum.
On marriage certs he says his dad is William (deceased) and on his 2nd marriage says its Henry (deceased) He married 1st Catherine Westcott and then Alice Dymond and had a number of children with both - whose descendants I am in touch with. He lists occupation as hawker.
The 2nd one I am stuck with is Robert Hughes c.30/1/1818 and his wife Sarah Davis b.Gloucester. Who are their parents?.
The 3rd is Robert Birch b.1831. Married Harriet Isaacs. Who were his parents??.
I have fairly full trees from early 1800s onwards on all these. I'm just trying to go back a bit.
love Cathay
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Henry says he was born in Exeter.... Nothing very likely on FreeBMD, is there? This is about the closest, and it's only lukewarm!
Births Jun 1838
BURCHETT Henry
Plymouth 9 392
Rambler
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Hi, Looks interesting, will have a think and come back later
:)
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Is your Robert Birch/Burch, the one born Andover Hampshire (a chimney sweep in Wilts County Gaol, Fisherton Anger, in 1851 HO107/1846 Folio 461 Page 43 and a general dealer, in a caravan, with wife Harriet in Frome, Somerset, 1881) If so, his birthplace is Andover on at least two censuses so that would seem a good place to look for parish records maybe?
Theres this family in 1841 -
Ann Burch 40 Y
Thomas 20 Sweep Y
William 15 Sweep Y
Ann 15 Y
James 15 Y
Robert 11 Y
James 9 Y
Betty 7 Y
Charles 5 Y
Richard 2 Y
//
Thomas Burch 80 Sweep Y
Elizabeth 70 Y
New Street, Andover, Hampshire
HO107/411/3 Folio 5 Page 5
Regards
Catherine :)
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There's also a Robert BIRCH b. Fressingwell, Suffolk married to a Harriet, although his date of birth seems a little earlier (c.1828).
This is him in 1841:
HO107/1025; Folio: 35; Page: 23
Fressingwell
Saml. BURCH - 35 - Ag Lab - N
Mary BURCH - 50 - N
Jas. HINES - 20 - Ag Lab - Y
Robt. BURCH - 13 - Y
Saml. BURCH - 8 - Y
There are single slash marks dividing the household into Samuel & Mary - James - Robert & Samuel.
Rambler
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I don't see a Robert Birch (or Burch) marriage to a Harriet Isaacs either on FreeBMD or on IGI. Cathay, could you provide more details of this marriage?
Anna :)
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Sorry Anna, we'll have to wait for Cathay to come on board.... :-\ She shouldn't be too long.
Barbara
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wow this is good,i already have some needed info from you.no wonder i had trouble he was in prison.yes catherine you ve got him.great.i am afraid i have no more except his wfe was harriet isaacs and her mother was jane but i cant find her dad.one of her daughters (mary ann) married thomas talbot and had a dose of kids in somerset 1851 cencus.(ann isaacs that is).i am really stuck now on robert hughes 1818 and henry 1839.henry 1839 stayed around the same places as my birches and was a dealer./hawker/tin man.i am trying to tie him to robert somewhere along the line.i think henry 1839s mother nwas charloote born about 1821 exminster exeter devon and his dad maybe william henry b.about 1817.but no proof as yet.i have all the later details and certs so dont worry about after the dates given.thanks for help.love cathay.i off to hospital now and wont be back til tonight.see you then
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morning everyone ...
found you ! bookmarking and searching ...
deb ;D
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In 1881, Henry Birchon b.1839 is on the Isle of Wight and states birthplace as Jersey Channel Islands :-\
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Hi again
Trying to work on Robert Birch 1830 = Harriet Isaacs 1832 Wiltshire
Just to lay it out and starting with CatOne's 1881 findings
Frome Somerset 1881
Robert Birch Gipsey b hants Andove
harriet wife 48 b Wilts
John son 16 b Somerset Wells
James son 13 b Plymouth Devon
Thomas son 11 Devon, Newton Bushell
Alfred son 9 b Somerset well
next 'door'
Nelson Birch 22 b Wilts , Devizes
Emma wife 22 b Hants, Southampton
1871
Beckington Somerset
Travelling van in Bridge Lane
Absent Head
Harriet Birch 38 licensed hawker b Wilts. Birbi?ge
Mary ann dau 17 " " b Somerset yeoville
Charlotte A dau 16 " " b Frome , Somerset
Robert son 14 " " b Devon Plymouth
Nelson son 12 Wilts, Devizes
William son 10 Wilts, maiden Bladley
Jane dau 8 Wilts, Bradford on Avon
John son 6 b Somerset
James son 4 b Plymouth, Devon
Thomas son 2 Devon, newton
Thanks goodness they knew where they were born ... looking at the childrens DOB and POB ...we can concentrate on certain areas. It seems that robert and Harriet most likely got married in Somerset or Wilts circa 1853 going by their eldest daughter, mary Ann's DOB
will look further
deb :)
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hi all
found you !!
will have a look once ive got kids from school .
good hunting everyone
Matilda ;)
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Heres the ref. for Jane Isaac and children incl Harriet in 1851 HO107/1933 Folio 154 Page 14, Dont know if you want to transcribe it??....
Jane is b.c1795 Silchester Berks
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Hi CatOne
If you don't mind ..could you transcribe it ... just makes it easier to refer back.
Strange that you should see that her mum , Jane was born in Berks ... I have been on IGI and the only Harriet b c 1832 with mum Jane is this
IGI extracted
Harriet ISAAC
chr 27 feb 1831, Bray , Berks
parents Thomas Isaac and jane
deb
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at least we are honing in on dates for the marriage ...
1851 ..harriet Isaac 20 and single in Somerset.... her first daughter b c 1854, Somerset ..... so 1851-1854 to check for marriages .
deb
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Here 1851 then -
Jane Isaac widow 56 basket Seller Silchester Berk
Harriet dau 20 Basket Seller Wilts Croiton?
Matthew son 18 Basket Seller Wilts Huston?
F...dric Ward serv 15 Basket Seller London
Thomas Talbot son in law 36 Basket Maker London
Mary Ann Talbot 32 Wilts Marlborough
Elen 13 Surrey Farnham
James 8 Cork Ireland?
Goliah 6 Dorset Pool
Edwi...? 3 Dorset Piddlehinton
Walter 5m Som M...ford
Bottom 5 children all ditto'd Talbot
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thanks for that :)
I was hoping to find Mary Ann Isaac's marriage to Thomas Talbot , that would have at least given us the father's name, so that Cathay could have hopefully found Jane's maiden name.
arrggghhhhh where is Harriet's marriage to Robert Birch :-\ :-\ :(
deb
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Theres this family in 1841 -
Ann Burch 40 Y
Thomas 20 Sweep Y
William 15 Sweep Y
Ann 15 Y
James 15 Y
Robert 11 Y
James 9 Y
Betty 7 Y
Charles 5 Y
Richard 2 Y
//
Thomas Burch 80 Sweep Y
Elizabeth 70 Y
Hi :)
If we could find a birth reg for Richard b c 1839 ....Cathay could order birth cert and we could confirm parents ... I have looked but don't see anything ... maybe someone else can spot him.
Also if Ann had Richard in 1839 , her husband had to have been alive in 1838 .... Maybe we could look for a Birch death between 1838 -1841... :-\
deb
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ive had a hunt about i cant find an birch and isaac marriage anywhere or a Talbot and isaac one.
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Cathay
going on to your hughes you have Robert c 30/1/1818. where was he baptised too ?
Matilda ;)
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hi cous ;D
I can't find registrations for anything ..... I wonder if they avoided them?
they are driving me batty ::) 8)
deb ;D
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Theres a reg. for a Robert Richard Burch Dec 1837 Alverstoke Vol 7 Page 6 :-\
and a Walter Birch Isle of Wight June 1841 Vol 8 Page 211
(cant find him with parents anywhere though to see if hes part of this family, unless hes the one b.Whippingham with parents William and Charlotte....coincidence of names! :-\ )
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hi debs couz
know what you mean. they are very good at hide and seek ;)
but they have to turn up somewhere. ???
im sure they cant hide for ever :-\
Matilda ;)
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Hi - I have found the younger members of that Andover family of Ann Burch, with Ann still in Andover in 1851, Richard (the youngest's) age is now given as 14 so he may have just missed registration, which was a bit hit or miss for the first few years anyway :-\
Debbie
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meant to add - do we have any evidence that this/these families actually did have their children baptised?
Debbie
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Hi Debbie
yes, they usually had their children baptised but as they were moving around so much, it's also a hit or miss to find them.
Can you give us the ref for ann and family in 1851?
thanks
deb :)
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ahhh I see it , Debbie ... They are all with initials ...good find ! ;D
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Hi again
working with Ann Birch's children to see if any of them married and then to find marriage reg. so Cathay can find the dad's name.
1861
Bishops court Lane Union workhouse
Thoams Birch inmate unm 42 chimney sweep b Andover :-\
will look for more
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anyone want a couple of kids mine wont stop fighting and i cant get any peace >:(
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This looks like Anns son William in 1861 married to an Ann
1861 andover
William Birch 30
Ann Birch 26
Henry Birch 5
Debbie
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oooo great , Debbie , can you see a marriage ?
I am trying to find Ann b c 1826 and Betty b c 1834 ... no luck yet
deb ::)
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Cant see William's marriage yet
but have spotted a lily candidate for James in some later census years in Alton Hants married to a Mary Ann - this could be their marriage
Marriages Dec 1851
Birch James Andover 7 60 Cross Reuben Andover 7 60
Froome William Andover 7 60
Howard Robert Andover 7 60
Scouse Sarah Andover 7 60
Skeats Ann Andover 7 60
TAYLOR Mary Ann Andover 7 60
Wager Hannah Andover 7 60
Debbie
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Ohh have just found that Andove is the BVRI2
that marriage above is
BIRCH, James Marriage to Mary Ann TAYLOR
Marriage Date: 17 Nov 1851
Andover, Hampshire
unfortunatly it's not a full record with the fathers names like some of them are
but also there is
BIRCH, William Marriage to Ann WILLIAMS
Date: 18 Feb 1822 Andover, Hampshire
:)
Debbie
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The James Birch in 1881, a marine store dealer, seems to have been a publican in 1871 and 1861, at the Pelican and the "Tumbledown Dick" , nice name!! ;D
"Highwayman Dick Turpin (1706-1739) & The Tumbledown Dick
The "Tumbledown Dick" public house is known to be linked with many famous people including Richard Cromwell, son of Oliver. However, it is also renowned by some as the local hostelry associated with the famous highwayman Dick Turpin. There is a bedroom in the inn which was known as "Dick Turpin's room" and it is said that he slept there on more than one occasion.
Farnborough is party to many tales and traditions connected with old-fashioned England. The village was ideal for highwaymen like Turpin with its wild heaths, dark commons and extensive woods. Turpin has been known as butcher's apprentice, cattle-lifter, smuggler, highwayman and thief. It is said that he has a headquarters nearby."
Taken from Rushmoor Borough Council website, theres also a good photo of the Inn on another website
1871 at the Tumbledown Dick RG10/1225 Folio 77 Page 2
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RG9/715 Folio 128 Page 40 Pelican Inn, Andover
James Birch 33 Publican Andover
Mary Ann 29 Andover
Rosanna Yeates sister in law 18 Andover
+ boarders (Moore family from Hants Overton?)
Oh didnt you say she married a Taylor not a Yeates? :-\
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is james who married mary ann taylor mr robert birches brothwer?i dont understand,i am sorry but i am only an old romany and i am a bit stupid!!!!whats dick turpine got to do with me?
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Thought you might like to know a bit about the history of the place that your ancestor lived and worked (if he does turn out to be your Robert's brother, which it is looking like) and the photo would show you where they lived, maybe your Robert and family even visited him there.....
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Hi Cathay ;D
You are not stupid ! LOL ... Cathay ... if we find one of your Robert's siblings marriages it will hopefully give us the dad's name ... We have your Robert with his mother Ann ...
We cannot find Robert's marriage to Harriet Isaacs ... :-\ so we are taking a different route .
One of robert's brother's , it seems, may have runn the pub ..where Dick Turpine used to go ...
deb your cousin :-*
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Heres Mary Ann Taylor in 1851, explains why sister in law Rosanna has a different surname -
Maria Yates widow 47 Parish relief Andover
M A Taylor dau 18 Andover
E Taylor granddau 5mo Andover
Rosana Yates dau 7 Andover
New Street, Andover
HO107/1683 Folio 428 Page11
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I have now found this baptism
BIRCH, Robert Birth Date: 3 Dec 1829
Christening Date: 7 Dec 1831 Andover, Hampshire Father: William BIRCH Mother: Ann
and this I think would be his brother James
BURCH, James
Birth Date: 25 Aug 1827
Christening Date: 9 Sep 1827 Andover, Hampshire
Father: William BURCH Mother: Ann
there are several other siblings
:)
Debbie
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wooohoooo Debbie
great find !!!! ;D
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Cathay ...
Could you tell us a bit more about your Robert Hughes b 1818 ...
added ...is he this one on IGI
30 JAN 1818 Honiton On Otter, Devon
parents; robert hughes and mary
extracted record
deb :)
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Right this is a bit of a leap, but I have to go and sort dinner in a min and I wanted you to have these.
Also from Andover what looks like the baptism of William (father of Rober & James etc) and a brother and sister, note the name Charlotte, I am wondering if Charlotte the mother of the mysterious Henry was maybe not married and just may have been the daughter of Thomas, named after his sister, the dates would work I think but it is just a theory (sounds better than guess :) )
BIRCH Charlotte Chr 1793 Andover
Thomas BIRCH & Elizabeth
BIRCH William Chr 1795 Andover
Thomas BIRCH & Elizabeth
BIRCH Thomas Chr 1797 Andover
Thomas BIRCH & Elizabeth
:)
Debbie
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Hello Everyone, Just a savings post.... back later. :D
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Hi Lesanne
Nice to see you :)
Cathay ..I have Robert Hughes in the 1891 census with Sarah his wife aged 63 and their children; Joseph 36, Leonard 26 and Sarah 21. Living on Aylesbear common next to the Orchard family.
You say he married Sarah Davis ...do you have them on other censuses .
according to IGI Robert's parents are Robert and Mary ... now to find their marriage ;D
deb
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i can only find them on 71 cencus as jones but all the known children are right on it.find them again in 81 and 91 as hughes.there history as is some of the birch is on romanygenes blank page if your interested.photos of birches alkso there.hughes under somerset/doset romanies.cathay and joes romany exhibition is me and my husband.all the birch in the photos are my family.love cathay
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Thanks Cathay .. I have seen it ..great site ...just wish I had some more photo's of my Penfolds and Orchards ... :-\
I will try to chase the Hughes backwards ..maybe his parents might be with him at some stage ...you never know ....
Great that you found them under Jones in 1871 ... ;D
will look further
deb
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Cathay ...
i have just found them in 1871 should be 1881 as HUGHS ... not Jones
1871 1881
Dulverton Somerset
hawkwell Close
2 caravan
Robert HUGHS 60 lic. hawker Honiton, Devon
Sarah 58 b not known
Robert 28 unm basket maker b Somerset Langport
Joseph 26 " " b Devon Honiton
T/Filla 22 Somerset taunton
Fiance 20 Devon Honiton
Bashte 18 somerset Taunton ...should this be Vashtie?
John 16 brush maker b Somerset wellington
Leonard 14 devon honiton
sarah 11 b Somerset Wellington
deb
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hi all
this is them as jones RG10; Piece: 2359; Folio: 42; Page: 17;
Charles Jones 25 ,Joey Jones 16 ,John Jones 6 , Lenard Jones 3 ,Robert Jones 52 ,Robert Jones 20 ,Sarah Jones 48 ,Sarah Jones 1 ,Tiance Jones 10 ,Tilly Jones 12 ,Vashty Jones 7 ,Caroline Radman 28 ,Henry Radman 5
they were in chipstable somerset possible they were done twice as they moved over night maybe what do you think
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Robert and sarahs daughter Caroline married Henry redman/ radman they were with them on this census
Matilda ;)
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aargghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :-[ :-[ :-[ I am such a Klutz .... mine was 1881 ...apologies .....
deb ...hiding under the table with embarrasment ;D 8)
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come out from under there
noah Hughes or rower hughes as transcribed in 1871 with Edwin and Sophie Orchard nee Hughes also roberts and Sarahs daughter. RG10; Piece: 2167; Folio: 70; Page: 11 which is why he isnt with them in 1871
Matilda ;)
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Found a Thomas Isaac + Jane Mills 29/12/1817 Reading (M018472) Berks
Added. Thomas Talbot 1813 2/5 South Moreton (C018913) Berks.
s/o Thomas & Hannah
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okay thank God i am not the only one who makes mistakes.and i just telepohoned all interested parties to let them know we had found our hughs as hughs in 1871.serves me right for not looking my self!!!!!sorry john,sorry colin,sorry davis,oh sorry everyone.false alarm still myou that know me know i do it all the time,make mistakes that is!!hi louise,oh debbie usa i saw sue pearce to day she says to tell you hi.you know sue in tiverton devon.mother a penfold?still i am getting chatty,i should be helping.sorrrry.cathayb
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come out from under there
noah Hughes or rower hughes as transcribed in 1871 with Edwin and Sophie Orchard nee Hughes also roberts and Sarahs daughter. RG10; Piece: 2167; Folio: 70; Page: 11 which is why he isnt with them in 1871
Matilda ;)
How many of these scavengers hunts have had us chasing around looking for ORCHARDS? ;D
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i know they turn up when your not looking for them but never when you are,
Hi cathay how was Sue, i owe her a letter must write
Matilda ;)
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r.hughes daughter sophie married a orchard,thomas i think.not looking at notes at the moment john will put me right if i am making more mistakes.folks i ve got all this info.try and find them pre 71 for me and who is perants are.dont forget my henry birch 1839.i am really pleased with what youve found on robert 1839.thanks
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Sophie married Edwin Orchard
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Hi ..
well Cathay ...I think you have lots of good stuff....
Debbie found the christening of Robert and James Birch ..now to find parents marriage
I have now found this baptism
BIRCH, Robert Birth Date: 3 Dec 1829
Christening Date: 7 Dec 1831 Andover, Hampshire Father: William BIRCH Mother: Ann
and this I think would be his brother James
BURCH, James
Birth Date: 25 Aug 1827
Christening Date: 9 Sep 1827 Andover, Hampshire
Father: William BURCH Mother: Ann
there are several other siblings
we also have Robert Hughes on IGI with parents; we need to find their marriage
Robert HUGHES
30 JAN 1818 Honiton On Otter, Devon
parents; robert hughes and mary
extracted record
the marriage of Robert Birch to Harriet Isaac would be nice ;D
Lesanne seems to have found Harriets parents marriage ;;; woohoooo ;D
Found a Thomas Isaac + Jane Mills 29/12/1817 Reading (M018472) Berks
Added. Thomas Talbot 1813 2/5 South Moreton (C018913) Berks.
s/o Thomas & Hannah I thought Thomas was born LONDON :-\
we're doing a fine job .
Ps ...Hi bearkat ... come chase with us ... deb (now out from under the table) :D
Cathay...please tell Sue I send my love !
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Robert and Sarah
children:
Caroline m Henry redman/Radman
Sophia m Edwin Orchard
Charles
Ocean m Henry Penfold
Robert
Joseph
Noah m Mary Ann Hackworthy
Tilly
Fiance m James Manley
Vashti m albert Wells
John
Leonard m Fiance Orchard
Sarah m charles manley
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yea another boo boo by me.i got carried away.of course sophia was nee hughes!i am going for a coffee break and put my head in order.back soon.cathay
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bookmarking, but need to read through
got to make a dog costume tonight from scratch for daughter on Thursday, but will try to help
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Marriages Dec 1852
BETTS William Hoxne 4a 1092
BIRCH Robert Hoxne 4a 1092
Mills Harriett Hoxne 4a 1092
could this be it with Harriet as Mills her mothers name maybe ??? ;)
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hi Toni :D
Matilda/Louise ;) ...when was Ocean born ? she had to be later ...Henry Penfold was b 1852.
Who was the eldest child of Robert and sarah?
deb
added ...oooo that looks good ... wonder if Harriet is maybe cgristened under Mills?
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Debs
Ocean abt 1851 never been able to find a bap for her, so if anyone spots it id love to know ;) birth in order i wrote them i think ;)
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Mary Ann Isaacs.......... Chr 19 April 1818 Preshute Wilts ( C019851)
d/o Thomas Isaac and Jane. (no other Isaac in this batch)
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Ohh have just found that Andove is the BVRI2
but also there is
BIRCH, William Marriage to Ann WILLIAMS
Date: 18 Feb 1822 Andover, Hampshire
:)
Debbie
Urmm - I think I did find their marriage
Debbie
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robert def married harriet isaacs not mills.the mills connection to a birch very useful to me though on another line i am following.robert hughes 1818 and sarahs eldest child def caroline married henry redman.their 2nd child was charlesb.1846,sophie 1844,robert 1851,ocean 1851,joseph 1855,tilly 1859 married a manley,fiance 1861 married james manly,noah 1857married sue jones then mary ann hackworthy,leonard 1867 m.fiance orchatrd then charlotte ? vashti1864,john1865,sarah 1870 married charles manly. caroline who married henry radsman had a daughter mary ann and a son harry who married martha roberts!!
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ah i realise now.we think mills might have been harriets mothers name.it is very possible.
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cathay
just wondered if she used her mothers name of mills when she got married instead of fathers name of Isaac, i know mine swoped theres round when they felt like it. might be worth looking in to if you dont find it anywhere else
Matilda ;)
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i know we are all very excited about robert birch but i think i have alot of questions answered now about him.could we concentrate on robert hughes perants and henry 1839 s perants and possible bros and sisters.i would so love to be able to tie my robert birch to my henry birch.thanks cathay
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how do you think Henry may fit in, what do you know on him,
its getting late brain isnt working now
;)
Ceclia Betton 65
Albert Birch 10 Mo
Charles Birch 6
Henry Birch 8
James Birch 12
Mary Birch 40
Mary Birch 4
Robert Birch 42
Robert Birch 17
Thomas Birch 10
HO107; Piece: 1697; Folio: 561; Page: 19;
not sure if they fit
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cor arent you clever.i dont know.where was this cencus cause i dont understand the nos and things and what year is it?it would be great if it was cause maybe i have found henry aswell.i dont know.what do others rthink
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1851 census but im not sure about it, dont think its right, this robert boen middlesex and father down as baker?
but though id put it on just in case
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off to bed now see you tomorrow some time, good luck
Matilda ;)
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yes i rember now.i put it on trees i sent you but as not proved in anyway.i should have let you know that i had proved it not right.sorry.no i am quite sure roberts dad was thomas and his mum ann after what we have heard today.just got to get the proof now.where are you all?have you gone to bed?i just wondered cause its suddenly gone quiet.do we all look again to morrow?how long does a hunt go on for?i just wondered.cathayb
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Hi Cathay
Sounds like you're having a good time with the Hunt. I'd say most of them have gone to bed now, but It will continue.
The actual official Hunt goes on for a week and then I put a new Hunt up, but your's as with the others is still open and if anyone finds information, then your Hunt is off again.
Barbara
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yes i have thoroughly enjoyed myself.how do i find out about other hunts next week and so on.they sound like fun.have a good sleep everyone and thanks.hope to see you all here tomorrow.i really want find henry 1839 and robert hughes and sarah davis if we can.hugs to all cathay
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I'll post a link on this thread leading to the next Scavenger Hunt. And they're always in the Common Room, so you can easily find them.
Barbara
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good morning everyone ...
back with my coffee having overslept ...big rush to get Katie organised and on the bus ... ;D anyway ..she off to school and here I am .
Debbie ...apologies ... missed the parents marriage when posting that summary.
need to reread ...
deb :)
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i wondered what time you all get up?i overslept aswell and now have trouble withh noisey neighbours.cant hear myself think!!can we conentrate on robert hughes and henry 1839 today?they are really difficult i think.love cathayb
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hi Cathay
I have searched 1841 for Henry Birch b c 1839 ...the only close one i can see is a henry Birch , 2 living with Nancy Birch , 26 in Cornwall, North down ...her occupation has been totally drawn through . She was born in county , Henry is No , not born in county.
In 1861 Henry Birch , 21, b St Mary, Exeter is with his wife Charlotte Westcott (23, b Exminster Devon) ..he is a licensed Hawker. arrgghhhh why couldn't he make up his mind about who his dad was ... ;D
deb
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its no good ive hunted under every spelling i can think of for davis, hughes and jones and i cant find them before ,1871 were Robert and Sarah still about in 1901 cause i cant find them in that either. ???
Matilda ;)
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i am afraid i have found nancy before,his dad william was working on his own in cornwall.have followed that henry through and i am afraid its not him.good try anyway.love cathay
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i dont know if they were still about,unlikely as they would have been in their 80s and i done their kids and they are not with them.i told you these are diifficult ones.i have been tearing my hair out over them for over a year.cant find any deaths registered for them either and i have visited every grave site i thought they might be.i think someone must have buried them on the side of the road!!!!!cathayb
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As usual I'm late and missing all the info which has been found. http://www.romanygenes.webeden.co.uk/birchfamily/4525031333 Is this Robert Birch anyone we need???
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hi hepburn ...nice to see you :D
Okay ... Henry Birch b 1839 said his dad was William (for 1st marriage) and Henry (for 2nd marriage)
I have searched for deaths for both names using Birch and Burch ...
this is the only one I can find prior to 1841
William BURCH
dec q 1840 Stoke Damerel
vol 9 p 294
I wonder if it would be worth getting the cert to see who registered it and all the other details ...if it is Charlotte ... then hopefully we can say that his dad was William and not Henry.
deb
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right i think you ve got henrsy dads death.of all the people searching for him and there are about 20 families i know of his descendants they are all prtty sure his fathers name was william.i will send for that cewrt of williams death especially as henry appears with his mum i think in plymouth 1851 in loding house next to hawking brays if thats anygood.i wonder if there was a war going on then.he may have gone for the kings shilling?just a thoght.charlotte if it his his mum is listed as a widow in 1851 by the way.i would like to tie this william to william dad of robert 1831 if i can?any ideas.cathayb
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hi hepburn?i have not met you before.thanks for helping in my hunt.romanygenes blank page.yes thats my robert and henry and robert hughes under somerset/dorset travellers.unfortunately i gave dear sue most of the info a long with my friend john and suzie so i ve got all that already.good try though,it would have been great if i didnt have it.love cathayb
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Hi Cathay ;)
are we looking in Hampshire??
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ummmm ...I don't know why I thought that Henry's dad had to have died before 1841 .... he could have been alive up until the 1851 census as we have not found henry and Charlotte in 1841 yet .... I am not thinking straight ..need more coffee
Cathay ... I wonder why Henry changed his name and place of birth during the 1870's .... Birch to Birchon and Exeter to Jersey... someone found his birth under Birchon earlier in this thread . amended ...can't find it maybe I dreamt it :-\ ::)
deb ...going for coffee
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Hi Deb,
I'm going for tea..
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early dates for robert birch are in andover hampshire.henry 1839 is plymouth and exeter devon hughes lot are somerset/devon.but in all honesty they coulkd be anywhere in the south west.they also liked gloucester/dorset/surrey/wiltshire.so who knows.gypsies are a law unto themselves.cathayb
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yep he appears on his marriage certs death cert and in different cencus s as all sorts.we have proved him to be a big fibber.he had his second wife pregnant while his 1st wife was in the workhouse dying.he was not a nice man.he also put his family in the workhouse in a later cencus and went off to live with another woman again!!we only know through his kids names and ages and certs.he appears using the names birch/birchon/burch/berch and anymore you may find.first he could nt write then he couldnt.between cencus he may have travelled to channel islans gypsies from plymouth did for trade.but he definately was not born in channel islands.cathayb hi john,speak to you soon.we are on the hard one now.henry 1839.the pig excuse french!!!i am going for tea break now.i expect you will all have found him when i get back!!!!!!!!
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IGI has an extracted marriage entry for a William Burch to a Charlotte Nash 1833 in Tring ,Hertfordshire??
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i will have a look at that now.cathayb its not a place where they would normally go though.
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Cathay
Caroline Hughes b c 1843 d/o Robert and sarah ...where was she born ... ?
i am trying to find Robert's marriage to sarah ...but I have no idea what area ... Sarah was born Glos. and Robert was born Devon ...hopefully Caroline's POB will give us a starting point .
deb
I cannot see them at all on 1861 or 51 .......... :-\ :( >:(
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personally i dont think they registered any one,thats why i am tearing my hair out.i looked at the marriage for william and charlotte,i dont think thats them but the spelling of charlotte is interesting.may try putting that in somewhere and see what i get cathayb
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Hi again cathay
arrghhhhh .... nothing yet ...will keep on looking tho'
Your site is fabulous ...the photo's are great . I think I should send you my info to update the Penfold/Orchard side .
deb
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Deb,
how do you fancy East Stonehouse Devon?
A Caroline Hughes was born in there in 1844.......9 399...FreeBMD.
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romanygenes is not my site.the owner sue has very kindly put stuff on for me.she is a very lovely lady and a great friend.very very helpful and knowledgeable about gypsy geneaology.love cathay.keep searching folks,i have got trouble with my email system now so have to ring my suppliers.see you in a minute.oh woderful you have found carolines birth and place.i will send for certificate.how clever.thanks
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:D Hi Everyone, Had one horrible day at work, so losing myself in your hunt Cathay.
:D Would this couple be near possibles..
Robert Burch + Sarah Addams Tytherleigh :o
June Q 1843 Williton, Somerset 10/849
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:D Amongst the Eight people on vol/page 3/230
Kensington Sept Q 1839
William Birch + Charlotte Nash
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Just passing through, I've a few problems my end - is it worth a look at
http://www.somerset.gov.uk/archives/
to see if there are any Settlement or Removal Orders?
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ive been looking for Robert and Sarah Hughes and there family on and off for about 3 years now i ve run out of ideas keep coming back to them . Caroline born illchester somerset according to census
Matilda ;)
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ooo Cathay
I have been reading through the queries on Romanygenes and someone related to Robert hughes b 1818 seems to think that his mum Mary had 'something to do with the Penfolds'! :o
hi Lesanne ;D...hope your day gets better by being here.
Hi Brambletye ;D nice to see you ...hope you and OH are better !
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i am afraid robert birch is married to harriet birch nee isaacs.so charlotte nash is i am afraid no go.we think charlotte?was married to william birch and that they are the perants of henry birch 1839.we are looking for robert and haRRIET around 1852/53 as 1st child mary ann born around then. william birch charlotte nash possible i suppose as long as they get back to devon by 41.and william is dead before 51 as we have charlotte as a widow with henry in plymouth.love cathay
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Hi Deb
Robert hughes mum with penfolds wouldnt suprize me as his daughter Ocean married a penfold and we all know how they like to keep within there family groups lol ;)
Matilda
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yes its an idea isnt it louise?i will go and look at penfold tree that i have.perhaps all you with penfold trees would do the same.remeber robert was boren 1818 and sarah is from gloucester.his mum and dad,mary and robert hughes were def in honitin on otter,devon in 1818.i have the parish record.love cathay.have you seen how many sarah davis s there are in gloucester 1881 cencus.i dont know where to start?
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just to complicate things further i would also like to find robert huges 1818 with a brother eli hughes around the same time. i dont think its my line of hughes but some hughes also went under the name of white at times!!cathayb
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whers everyone gone?dont leave me on my own!!!ijust popped into the chat room and asked for help but they dont know nothing either.cathay. oh email still not woirking apparently talktalk got problems in my area.good job i can get on line anyway.
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Hi cathay
back ...had to pay some bills ::)
So Eli Hughes is his brother ...was he also born in Devon?
deb
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ah,i dont know if hes his brother or not.i just hope so.i will go and look up records to see if he was born in devon but it maybe hampshire.i will go look.back in a minute.it would just answer a lot of questions if he was his brother!!!!probably wishful thinking.
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found a Sarah Davis christened 19 sept 1813 Bristol Glos.
parents; Isaac and Mary
re; Eli Hughes ...is he the one on the 1891 with wife Dianah and grandchildren? ... he is born Tisbury Wiltshire
deb
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Hi again
Eli is easy to spot on the 1891 and 1871 ...which censuses are you looking for and do you have him under the name White?
deb
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cor i just got back from looking at my records and youve already done it!!eli was born 1828,i am looking for his perants to see if their the same as my robert hughes!!yes he was born tisbury wiltshire. i think youve got my sarah now.can you find her in 1841 cencus?
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i have looked at my penfold tree and cant go back further than john 1810.i would need his perants and siblines to check on that idea.
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we thought sarah was older than robert i cant remeber why at the moment.i keep paper records as my computers are always breaking down and i lose all my records if they are on the old computers.it takes me ages to wade through bits and pieces especially if i havent filed them yet.
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hi back from work now ;D
I think there was a good possiblity that John penfold born 1809 was son of John and Charlotte looked at there other children and none that i know of married a hughes
Matilda ;)
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sarahs y/o/b on census 1823 and 1828
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oh well that knocks that one on the head then.penfold that is.dont believe everything the cencus says.i know i had good reason to think she was alot older i just cant find my notes.
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i rember now.we think there was maybe more children than we have found.i dont remeber which children we found that might be theirs but if robert was say 20 when he married then he may have started having kids around 1838.oh i wish i could find those notes.
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i know ive read somewher (cant think where at mo) that they offten married as young as 12 /14 so thats very poss thats theres more kids.
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right i have found something.a marriage doc for charlotte hughes in 1856.her father was james hews.its in devon luppitt.i wonder if james could be a brother of robert and possibly eli?she married an orchard by the way.
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then there is Britannia hughes father Joseph hughes who married a Holland in 1870 in luppit devon
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yes and i think the witness there was robert hughes!!!i think james may have been roberts dad roberts brother as in the 1861 cencus he looks to have been born somewhere between 1796/1806
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yes thats right they could def marry as young as 12 back then.
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hi
I am confused in 1871 Sarah Hughes is 58 and in 1861 she is 48 ... so b c 1813 :-\
deb
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witnesses Robert hughes and Rachel Holland.
deb have i missed something where is Sarah in1861 ???
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Cathay who did Charlotte Hughes married at luppit do you know who the witnesses are there ???
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we think she lied?they often didnt know how old they were.yes 13 and 58 is 71 and 48 and 13 is 61.i think its her or am i going nuts with my maths.i do have senile moments you know. charlotte married thomas orchard son of edward orchard.witnesses william searle and elizabeth tozer.occupation of all men basket makers
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yes where is sarah in 1861.we haVE NEVER FOUND THEM ANYWHERE IN 61?
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Blimey ... It's me again ... sorry Louise ...
you're right ...the 1871 I found was actually the 1881 as cathay had them in 1871 as the Jones family ...my mistake .... I will look again for sarah Davis b abt 1823
deb ...under the table again ... :-[
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NOW THEN WE ALL MAKE MISTAKES THANK GOODNESS OR I WOULD NEVER COME OUT FROM UNDER TABLE.UNLESS YOU HAVE THE CENCUSES UNDER THERE TO LOOK UP MY FOLKI COME OUT AT ONCE.CATHAYB
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yes and i think the witness there was robert hughes!!!i think james may have been roberts dad roberts brother as in the 1861 cencus he looks to have been born somewhere between 1796/1806
where are they in 1861 so i can find right family
Debs out you come ;)
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possibles for Sarah Davis bc 1823 ;D
12 OCT 1823 Buckland, Gloucester parents ; William and Mary (submitted)
16 NOV 1823 Little Dean, Gloucester parents ..Thomas and Sophia (extracted)
10 AUG 1823 Westbury On Severn, Gloucester .. parents Thomas and Ann (ext)
27 MAR 1824 Westbury On Severn, Gloucester parents ..John and sarah (ext)
will try to find the mother's maiden names of the above ...
deb .... slowing crawling out from under the table 8)
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james hughes 61 devon,71 and 81 wiltshire
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ah debs,so you have got births info under there.you just stay put and do some more digging for me.
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their 1st child was called caroline,their 2nd charles,3rd sophia,4th robert.where did they get the names?surely they named them after family members?most travellers do.
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just goin for coffee.see what you can find.i will award a smilie face for any info received when i get back.
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okay i am back and no smileleys for you two.just a :'(.no i didnt mean it you been bricks all day.given me loads of help and ideas,so ;D ;D ;D ::) :D ;) :)have you gone to bed now?if i dont hear from someone in a couple of mins i will hit the sack aswell.hope everyone comes on board again tomorrow.love and hugs cathayb
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okay night night,God Bless,watch the bugs dont bite.see ya all in the afternoon tomorrow.i get paid tomorrow morning so i am off to spend it.love cathay
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Cathay
back ...had to deal with kid's homework and stuff ... also having a glass of red wine ... are you there ?
deb
added cathay ..usually if the box under our name is green it means we are still online ,.... if dark ..then away
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sorry i have gone to bed,husband moaning like mad i am always on computer.see you tomorrow.hugs cathay
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Cathay, I was wondering about the later names used by Robert & Sarah Hughes - Fiance & Vashti, is this an indication of the family or is it from family associations by brothers or sisters of one of them?
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i havent had 5 minutes to be able to read thorugh this thread at all - sorry-
can someone give me a quick summary as to what we are lokking forand what we have got so i dont duplicate and then i can crack on.
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Hi all work finished for another day
Vashti and Fiance were names used by Penfolds for sure i think ive seen others use Fiance such as Holland, Orchard and Birch. not sure about Vashti though
Matilda ;)
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morning all
Toni ... we are looking for Robert Hughes b 1818 Honiton Devon and his wife Sarah nee Davis b 1823 Glos. and their kids in 1841/51/61
They have been found in 1871 etc...in 1871 they are under the name Jones!
we are also looking for the marriages of Robert Hughes and Sarah Davis , also a Birch marriage ...will look for the details and post ... hold on
deb
added Robert birch = Harriet Isaacs .... we can't find marriage
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hi toni ...
here they are in 1881.. in 1871 they are under JONES
Cathay ...
i have just found them in 1871 should be 1881 as HUGHS ... not Jones
1871
Dulverton Somerset
hawkwell Close
2 caravan
Robert HUGHS 60 lic. hawker Honiton, Devon
Sarah 58 b not known
Robert 28 unm basket maker b Somerset Langport
Joseph 26 " " b Devon Honiton
T/Filla 22 Somerset taunton
Fiance 20 Devon Honiton
Bashte 18 somerset Taunton ...should this be Vashtie?
John 16 brush maker b Somerset wellington
Leonard 14 devon honiton
sarah 11 b Somerset Wellington
deb
this is them in 1871 under Jones ( from Cathay)
this is them as jones RG10; Piece: 2359; Folio: 42; Page: 17;
Charles Jones 25 ,Joey Jones 16 ,John Jones 6 , Lenard Jones 3 ,Robert Jones 52 ,Robert Jones 20 ,Sarah Jones 48 ,Sarah Jones 1 ,Tiance Jones 10 ,Tilly Jones 12 ,Vashty Jones 7 ,Caroline Radman 28 ,Henry Radman 5
they were in chipstable somerset
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I think that Robert & Sarah Hughes had another son Frederick! born 1847 at Honiton, he can be found in the 1891 & 1901 census at Honiton, there is also a mention of him in the Wedding report in 1895 of the marriage at Tiverton of Mary Ann Redmond to John Small, Susan Hughes is mentioned as Frederick's sister in law, I think she is the first wife of Noah Hughes.
There is also possibly another brother William Hughes, in 1901 he is with his son at Poole, in 1871 at Kilmington, Devon
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Hi John
welcome ... hope you have fun here! :D
I have been scrolling through the 1851 census this morning, looking for them ..I concentrated on Somerset as it seems they were there for Sarah's ( b c 1860) birth.
will have a look for Frederick.
deb
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Hi John
Frederick Hughes (hawker) can also be found on the 1881 ... He now says that he is b c 1849, Chard Somerset. He is in Tiverton with his wife Mary 25, son Burty 10months and step son William Fouracres 4. They are all born in Tiverton.
will look further
deb
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Hello Deb,
I am in and out of the hunt as I spend a fair amount of time on research, but had a look at this first thing this morning on the census, the search I used was Hughes born Honiton, and a third of all names I came up with I recognized as being connected to Robert & Sarah.
I did spot a Sarah Jones birth registration around the right time to be Robert & Sarah's daughter.
I have always been lead to believe that Sarah was nee Davis, but have not seen any proof! I thought if we could just find one registered birth we may get an answer to this.
Also there are 3 possible GRO registered death's between 1891 & 1901 for both Sarah & Robert (Somerset & Devon as the area)
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Marriages Mar 1880 (>99%)
~~~~~~~~
Driscoll Mary Ann Exeter 5b 179
Ferns Henry Exeter 5b 179
Fouracre Mary Exeter 5b 179
Hughes Frederick Exeter 5b 179
would prove who father of fredrick was
Matilda ;)
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back from shopping.goin take me half an hour to take in all you have done this morning thanks everyone.john has just filled you in on what i was goin to tell yoiu that i got from him by email.can you go back further please now folks if poss.and dont forget that pig of a man henry 1839.really need to tie him to mr robert birch 1831.i think hes mum charlotte was born exminster 1821.his dad william 1817 where i dont know.back in awhile cathay
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woohooo Louise ...great ...the step son def. stayed with him all the way through the census .....
at least we have one registered marriage .... ;D
great!
deb :D
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I have just looked at the 1881 census thank you Deb,
Also did a search for him in earlier one's but nothing found so far.
I wonder if Cathay is back from shopping and the Golden arches?
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RG13; Piece: 1979; Folio: 42; Page: 42. is this the William you were looking at
Matilda ;)
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Hi Everyone
Been catching up on this hunt
I don;t know if will help but found a marriage
Robert Hughes Frome Somerset 1837 10 479 3Q
Unfortnately doesn;t list wife but just wondered if might be him as think it was mentioned they were about that area
sandy
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RG10; Piece: 2033; Folio: 100; Page: 24 was this the William in 1871, if so i think he maybe the William son of James and Mary Hughes Who cathay meantioned as parents of Charlotte Hughes. as he also says on census Devizes whiltshire as birth the same as them 8)
what do you think ???
Matilda ;)
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Hi Everyone
Been catching up on this hunt
I don;t know if will help but found a marriage
Robert Hughes Frome Somerset 1837 10 479 3Q
Unfortnately doesn;t list wife but just wondered if might be him as think it was mentioned they were about that area
sandy
Hi sandy :D
deb
The only Sarah on for that quarter and place is Sarah ADAMS .... but everyone thinks he married Sarah DAVIS :-\
added ...
sarah Adams = vol 10 p 749 as well
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Here is a birth for a Henry Birch 1839 Wells Somerset 10 448
Any good ?
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Hi Everyone
Been catching up on this hunt
I don;t know if will help but found a marriage
Robert Hughes Frome Somerset 1837 10 479 3Q
Unfortnately doesn;t list wife but just wondered if might be him as think it was mentioned they were about that area
sandy
Hi sandy :D
deb
The only Sarah on for that quarter and place is Sarah ADAMS .... but everyone thinks he married Sarah DAVIS :-\
Hi Debs
I already told you about someone posting on ancestry related to this family and yes they say Sarah Davis but personally as no one has actually proved it I would be tempted to think this is a good likely could be the couple if you have a Sarah Adams might be that is her
sandy
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i got the info that she was sarah davis from sue day romany genes shes not often wrong.is adams a romany name?just goona read the posts you ve all put up and see what i make of it all.i think i might concentrate on james hughes.i reckon if he was roberts brother i may find out something.thetres joseph hughes brittainias dad as well isnt there louise?hi john i am back.spent all me money!!!thanks for your input.good isnt it on here.thanks for your info on penfolds tiggi.i will try and chase them.what about henry birch 1839 someone?
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ummmm
if sarah was bc 1823 Gloucestershire , then she would only be 14 when marrying ... although I think Matilda/louisa posted that could have happened .
I have been going through IGI
there is this ..
Sarah Adams
7 sept 1823 Winterbourne, Glos
Parents; William and mary
(a submitted entry gives William Adams = mary Adams in Winterbourne 1820, they had quite a few children ))
I also found this earlier ...Was looking for Davis stuff...
I know it's a long time before our Davis but the name looks like a family one
Vashte Davis
9 jan 1729 Bisley, Glos
father Wm Davis
and this one ;
Vashti Sarah Davis = Thomas Smith
11 oct 1882, Chippenham
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okay ....
Found Sarah Adams d/o Willaim Adams and Mary Adams ...with all her siblings in 1841 ... her dad is a tiler and painter , they are all in Winterbourne.
so we can cross her out !! :-\
deb
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if we could work out a link to Britannia i would be over the moon ::)
all i have on her is a d/o/b/ for her of 24 Apr 1853 that was given to be but ive never found any proof for it, she married Thomas holland in luppit devon on 11/7/1870 father Joseph hughes agian i was told wife name possible Eliza but no proof she gave Hampshire as place of birth on all census
Matilda ;)
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Cathay have you looked at this image?
RG12-1889-106-14 Huish Episcopi, Somerset
Hughes & Birch on it
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RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.
For some time the team of Copyright Editors has been removing breaches of copyright and sending detailed personal messages to the member that had posted the information. Due to the volume of posts and members this is now impractical. Messages in breach will simply be deleted and this notice posted. We apologise for any inconvenience caused but are sure you will appreciate the importance of this issue.
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if we could work out a link to Britannia i would be over the moon ::)
all i have on her is a d/o/b/ for her of 24 Apr 1853 that was given to be but ive never found any proof for it, she married Thomas holland in luppit devon on 11/7/1870 father Joseph hughes agian i was told wife name possible Eliza but no proof she gave Hampshire as place of birth on all census
Matilda ;)
Matilda have you considered this he could have been Henry Joseph or Joseph Henry! it is the closest Britannia I have seen for her -
RG9-1307-24-10 Fittleton, Wiltshire
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whos head of household for that one whats the spelling for last name
cant get it to come up :(
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got them
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RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.
For some time the team of Copyright Editors has been removing breaches of copyright and sending detailed personal messages to the member that had posted the information. Due to the volume of posts and members this is now impractical. Messages in breach will simply be deleted and this notice posted. We apologise for any inconvenience caused but are sure you will appreciate the importance of this issue.
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off to do tea now will be back later
Matilda ;) ;)
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There is also possibly another brother William Hughes, in 1901 he is with his son at Poole, in 1871 at Kilmington, Devon
further to this William Hughes ... in 1871 he has wife Elizabeth, and children ;James (b Honiton), Mary Ann (b Hants, Alton), Matthew 6 months (mere, Wilts). We also have him as a widower in 1901
found this in 1881
Heathersland Village, Dorset
William HUGHES head 45 tinker b Hants Alton :-\
Elizabeth wife 48 pedlar b Wilts salisbury
Mathew son 11 b Mere Wiltshire
Job son 3 b Dorset Kinston
next door
James WHITE 50 pedlar b Eilts
Selway? wife 43 pedlar Hants
Elderion? dau 17 shoe cobler b Hants Rowley?
George 14 b Hants Rowley/Rowsey
?ddej?? son 12 b Winchester
Samuel 10 b dorset Kinston
Elizabeth 8 dorset Ringwood
I think Cathay told us that someone went by the name White...I think Eli Hughes ... :-\
deb
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replying while i can.my computer gone on blink.talktalks fault they are trying to remedy every thing.trust it to happen on my hunt when i should be really involved.sorry folks.i will keep trying to get to you.photocopy this lot off and study and get back as soon as i can.love cathayb
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Message from Cathayb - she is having problems with her internet connection! she would like us all to look for - henry birch 1831.
The White family at Heatherlands is James White & Selby Ayres, there grandaughter Caroline married Uncle Joby Hughes in 1923, he is the grandson of Eli Hughes, as far as I know this part of the Hughes family did not use the name White - that seems to be connected to descendants of Tom White & Priscilla Hughes (born 1830)
I do not know where the Hughes in the 1881 fits with our family Thanks.
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right emails gone really on the blink noe.if i get hold of talktalk personel,heads are going too rool.you should see the trouble i have had just getting on this site.i am trying to check everything you have given on ancestry etc., john i dont think roberts hughes taunton,i think honiton,they loved it their.i am going there sat to see if i can find graves.i expect they are buried together.what makes you think taunton?
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its henry birch 1839!!!what i want really really want is to coonect my robert hughes to eli hughes and my henry birch 1839 to my robert birch 1831.if i can do that i will have thousands in my tree!!!i am greedy.i wonder how long computer or rather talktalk will let me stay this time.cathayb
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John
do you know where does Pricilla Hughes who married Tom White fit in ???
who her parents are .
Cathay still looking for Henry but nothing as yet
Matilda ;)
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a bit of a distraction.
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sorry i thought i had sent a picture but i hadnt!!!
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i hope this comes up.just to lighten things for a minute.i am in a foul mood with talktalk
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John
The Hughes family that I posted in 1881 ...is the William Hughes that you had found in 1901 and 1871... You had said earlier that this William could possibly also be a son of Robert Hughes and sarah.
quote:
" There is also possibly another brother William Hughes, in 1901 he is with his son at Poole, in 1871 at Kilmington, Devon"
further to this William Hughes ... in 1871 he has wife Elizabeth, and children ;James (b Honiton), Mary Ann (b Hants, Alton), Matthew 6 months (mere, Wilts). We also have him as a widower in 1901
found this in 1881
Heathersland Village, Dorset
William HUGHES head 45 tinker b Hants Alton
Elizabeth wife 48 pedlar b Wilts salisbury
Mathew son 11 b Mere Wiltshire
Job son 3 b Dorset Kinstonand 1871.
hope I am making sense
deb
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i just thought i would go on ancestry.henry burch born somerset is not mine.i have just looked for our robert hughes as white/jones/cooper no go though but they liked changing there names.a lot of gypsies went to the channel islands.i will just pop over there and have a look.back in a minute
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nothing in the channel islands.i have looked for both roberts and henry.ah well
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John
do you know where does Pricilla Hughes who married Tom White fit in ???
who her parents are .
Cathay still looking for Henry but nothing as yet
Matilda ;)
Matilda,
This is all I have on Priscilla, but it also shows you who some of her children are, Jessie can be found in other years with Noah Cooper & Annie Hughes (It has on her grave Mother of 21) - that snippit is for any one with a couple of kids drivng them mad ;D
CENSUS:
1. 1901 Census, RG13-1990-19-29 Upway, Dorset.
"Name Age Birthplace Relationship Occupation
Jesse Hughes 28 Chickerell, Dorset, England Head Hawker
Louisa Hughes 26 Chickerell, Dorset, England Wife
Adelaide Hughes 4 Chickerell, Dorset, England Daughter
Priscilla Hughes 1 Chickerell, Dorset, England Daughter
Lucy Hughes under 1 month Upwey, Dorset, England Daughter
Priscilla Hughes 70 Chickerell, Dorset, England Mother
Horace Hughes 25 Chickerell, Dorset, England Brother Hawker
Teresa Hughes 20 Chickerell, Dorset, England Sister Hawker
Dorchester Road, Caravan, Camped with Thomas & Mary A. White."
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thanks for that
21 kids!! wow dont know how she managed :o
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Matilda,
I forgot to say Annie mother of 21 is another daughter of Priscilla Hughes & Tom White
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John
The Hughes family that I posted in 1881 ...is the William Hughes that you had found in 1901 and 1871... You had said earlier that this William could possibly also be a son of Robert Hughes and sarah.
quote:
" There is also possibly another brother William Hughes, in 1901 he is with his son at Poole, in 1871 at Kilmington, Devon"
Deb, I have looked through what I have in information and think that despite various birth places this William is the son of James & Mary Hughes RG9-1612-34-5 Culmstock, Devon
Name Age Birthplace Relationship Occupation
James Hughes 52 Devizes, Wiltshire, England Head Tin Man
Mary Hughes 51 Devizes, Wiltshire, England Wife
William Hughes 20 Devizes, Wiltshire, England Son Tin Man
Eliza Hughes 16 Devizes, Wiltshire, England Daughter
Cellana Hughes 13 Devizes, Wiltshire, England Daughter
Burger Plot."
further to this William Hughes ... in 1871 he has wife Elizabeth, and children ;James (b Honiton), Mary Ann (b Hants, Alton), Matthew 6 months (mere, Wilts). We also have him as a widower in 1901
found this in 1881
Heathersland Village, Dorset
William HUGHES head 45 tinker b Hants Alton
Elizabeth wife 48 pedlar b Wilts salisbury
Mathew son 11 b Mere Wiltshire
Job son 3 b Dorset Kinstonand 1871.
hope I am making sense
deb
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Sorry Deb, the reply is in the middle of your post a boo boo by me
But to recap I think this is the William Hughes with his parents -
1861 Census., RG9-1612-34-5 Culmstock, Devon.
"Name Age Birthplace Relationship Occupation
James Hughes 52 Devizes, Wiltshire, England Head Tin Man
Mary Hughes 51 Devizes, Wiltshire, England Wife
William Hughes 20 Devizes, Wiltshire, England Son Tin Man
Eliza Hughes 16 Devizes, Wiltshire, England Daughter
Cellana Hughes 13 Devizes, Wiltshire, England Daughter
Burger Plot."
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it looks like we are all hitting my brick walls now.we have got a bit more info on robert birch but can not find a coonection to him to henry birch.robert we just cant get any further back on him can we.still i think i have buriels for sarah and robert in honiton.i will check on saturday.is every one still here or have you all gone off to bed?shall i see you tomorrow?
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Hi i am here but lost to what you need, every time i go to read through the thread there are a lot of new replies added which just confuse me
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still here but will be going soon, will be back on 2moro, day off work ;D
Matilda ;)
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Henry Birch/Birchon b.1839. I cant find his parents He appears in Plymouth 1851, I think with a Charlotte Birch widow who may be his mum.
On marriage certs he says his dad is William (deceased) and on his 2nd marriage says its Henry (deceased) He married 1st Catherine Westcott and then Alice Dymond and had a number of children with both - whose descendants I am in touch with. He lists occupation as hawker.
has this been solved?
would you consider that either William or Henry were his natural father they perhaps died and his mother married again thus giving Henry another father ?
do you have his birth or bapt?
as there are two surnames he used perhaps one was for one father and the other for the other? however if this is the case he wouldn't necessarily have the same surname as his mother :-\
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Cathay what where the years Henry got married. might help find him
Matilda
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ah i thought you had all gone.right henry birch 1839?.we have found him we think in 1851 in lodgings with we think his mum as a widow in plymouth devon.he got married to catherine westcott just before 1861.his fist 2 chikldren died.they were called henry and charlotte.we think charlotte was born about 1821 proably exminster nr,exeter.devon.his dad we think born about 1817 and we are almost sure he is william.
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i dont know if charlotte was his mum.i have no proof.she may be a big sister.he used a number of names through his lifetime all centred round the name birch.birch/birchon/burch.i have all the info on him after 1861,his kids grandkids,war records for his sons,death certs etc.,he was a pig of a man.louise i know i have your email i dont know if i have yours debs?i could send by email to you 4 pages of foolscape we have all worked on over the years.most of his living family are in touch with me and each other.
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Not Sure if this went last time : try again
HENRY BIRCH born 1839 WELLS SOMERSET 10 448
Is this your man Cathayb ?
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unfortunately not.we checked him out and not him.good try
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tiggi?who are your boswells.i may have something on them.your sandy are nt you?i lost your email address when my old computer broke.i think youve got my address.email me again and i will have you address then love cathay
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Hi cathay
Yes its me tiggi /Sandy
I will send you email in pivate message not allowed to post it here
I found this census expect you got it but just encase not
1891 RG12-1863 folio 67 p15 Luccombe Minehead Somerset
James Birch 24 licensed hawker Devon
Sophia 24 Devon
Charlotte 5 Silverton Devon
Robert 2 Sutton Hampshire
John Loveridge 16 bristol
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yes i have got it.robert there is joes grandad
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Right so you have Henry in 1851 1861 1871 census yes ?
Did you see these
1841 census Henry birch b 1839 St Allen Truro Cornwall
Nancy birch b 1815 St Allen Truro Cornwall
1841 Census Bath Somerset
James Burch 30
Elizabeth Burch 35
Charlotte 10
Isaac 8
William 6
James 4
Thomas 3
Henry 8mths
Interesting that you have charlotte and a Henry together
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if we could work out a link to Britannia i would be over the moon ::)
all i have on her is a d/o/b/ for her of 24 Apr 1853 that was given to be but ive never found any proof for it, she married Thomas holland in luppit devon on 11/7/1870 father Joseph hughes agian i was told wife name possible Eliza but no proof she gave Hampshire as place of birth on all census
Matilda ;)
I have Britannia Hughes born 1851 daughter of Joseph Hughes marriage seems correct as to what I was given
witnesses were Robert Hughes & Rachel Holland
They had 8 kids
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i am off to bed now but the second one you gave me charlotte and henry in same family i am interested in.i will have to follow through and see what that family are up to in 51,61,71.nancy and henry i beleive are a no no as i have found them somewhere still together when my henry is married.i have some bits on your abraham boswell will forward to you after my hunt finishes.night,thanks for help so fare
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am here ...have been doing school project with my Katie ....arrghhh ...
what if all the kids were baptised /registered under the Jones name ...? I saw a Vashti Jones somewhere ....
back later
deb
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I wonder if this is our Vashti? right year
Name: Vashti Sarah Davis
Year of Registration: 1863
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Marlborough
County: Wiltshire
Volume: 5a
Page: 83
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Vashte Davis
9 jan 1729 Bisley, Glos
father Wm Davis
and this one ;
Vashti Sarah Davis = Thomas Smith
11 oct 1882, Chippenham
Hi ...I am off to bed ...
John ... yours looks like it could add up to the same one as I found ...what do you think ?
see you tomorrow
deb
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Deb,
It looks like that there is a Vashti Davis then as the Hughes/Jones Vashti was with Albert Wells in 1901
Name Age Birthplace Relationship Occupation
Albert Wells 40 Axminstrer, Devon, England Head Hawker
Vashti Wells 38 Not Stated Wife
Just found the marriage -
Name: Albert Wells
Name: Vashti Hughes
Year of Registration: 1884
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Axminster
County: Devon, Dorset
Volume: 5b
Page: 11
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if we could work out a link to Britannia i would be over the moon ::)
all i have on her is a d/o/b/ for her of 24 Apr 1853 that was given to be but ive never found any proof for it, she married Thomas holland in luppit devon on 11/7/1870 father Joseph hughes agian i was told wife name possible Eliza but no proof she gave Hampshire as place of birth on all census
Matilda ;)
I have Britannia Hughes born 1851 daughter of Joseph Hughes marriage seems correct as to what I was given
witnesses were Robert Hughes & Rachel Holland
They had 8 kids
is there any chance this could be her?
Hues Britann Bradfield 6 145 Q2 1847
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think its worth at look thanks
Matilda ;)
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Hi Cathy,
Have read all the posts with interest. Your Harriet Isaacs is the sister of my 2 x great grandfather James Isaacs b. 1822 Broad Hinton. His father was Thomas Isaacs a tin man. James Isaacs and his very large family eventually settled in Penselwood/Stoke Trister. I know this doesn't provide you with any more information but I guess we have a connection! Ginny :)
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yes ginny we have a connection in more ways then you realise.i have quite a bit on your family.please send your email address and i will get back to you privately.now i am working on the assumption that sarah may have been a jones!maybe that is why they used the name jones.found alot of likely connections in devon 51 cencus by putting in sarah/robert/charles/etc.,go in check out 61 cencus now to see if i can connect them.love cathay
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you guys could set up your own group the amount of you who are connected!
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Email removed!
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Are we absolutley certain Henry was born in 1839??
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cheesie pops have sent you a PM, you will need to remove you r email from the main thread
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chessie pops send your email address to me by personel message.they will let it through that way or i will try and send mine to you.no we are not absolutely certain henry was born 1839.only goning by marriage certs and him we think with charlotte 1851 plymouth.dont even know thats him for sure.he says he was born exeter but he also fibs alt!!he also said born jersey channel isles but that is def not true.we have checked all records there.love cathay
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Hi cathayb
Had any luck with family I found with that Bath Census ? 1841
I know it was a popular place for traveller's found other families in and about area
sandy
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i am still working on them especially as the names match.i cant find them in 51 or 61 yet but maybe i am beind daft,husband is yelling for his dinner.dosnt understand i am hooked on this for a week.he reckons hes dying of malnutrition.see ya after lunch i suppoes.cathayb.ginny i have sent an email.is ginny your right name or cheesiepops!!!!
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found em.with out henry and charlotte.william is now living with his son wife and children.could well be them with charlotte and henry off to plymouth in 51?is it well worth thinking about and checking thats for sure.what else could i do to prove it?
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I am still wondering myself if that Henry Birch in Wells born 1839 isn;t same one on 1841 in bath its not far from bath and if they were traveling on that circuit could be him you know
You have said they changed birth area on census several times and i know my own family did that often tended to say if in bristol born there then moved off in Devon oh born there so maybe its a possible cathayb
might be worth looking for the other children;s birth see if any come up in Wells or near to bath especially charlotte
can you post 1851 census I will try and look up from that
sandy
Lol i know the feeling when it was my turn I didn;t leave my pc hubby had to bring me drinks and meals to pc lol but he is so good knows how important it is to me
If ever these hubbies get together they can all moan about us make them feel better so he's not on his own lol
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51 cencus is HO 107/1935.i looked in butleigh somerset for henry birch,sons sister comes up as 2 yrs old.butleigh is near wells in glastonbury.somerset.i dont know how to send image.61 they are still in same place and no william either so he may have died as per marriage cert.,i take no notice where they say they were born as they often lied.or did not know
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Hi Cathayb
I just looked too the family I gave you for 1841 are still in same place in 1851 HO/107 1942 154 p3 Lyncombe Somerset
with Henry and charlotte is married called hyden so not sure this is your lots now sorry
But there is a Drusilla Burch aged 50 with a load of kids in same area
1851 HO/107 1865 401 p19 Lyncombe somerset
don;t know if any connection
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drusilla nothing to do with me as far as i know.this henry is a real pig of a bick wall.i feel i have something to work with with the others.not this chap though.wheres my friend john?he can normally sort out anything,hes brilliant.oh well back to the drawing board so to speak
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morning everyone ...
what are we doing today ... ahhh Henry b 1839 , will have another go at looking for him.
deb
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There are two Henry Burch birth entries for 1842..
first one St Thomas second,Honiton...
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where did you find those?honiton?wheres st thomas?if its exeter we might have him.if you can please send ref and what site you found him on and i will go look.thanks.morning deb.what time is it there for goodness sake?its nearly tea time here!!!cathayb
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okay,where are you all gone?hubby has gone out and i am glued to the computer waiting for news.if you really hate henry 1839 which i do.we could go back to robert hughes and see what we can get on him?speak to me someone. ;D ???
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:D Hi Cathay.... Just getting food....
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Cathay ;D ;D
I am here ...This morning I trawled through Devon, for hours, looking for hateful Henry b 1840 +/- 5 years .... he is not around in 1841 ....I wonder if he changed his name to William or something .... Do you know what happened to Charlotte who he was with in 1851?
still can't find Robert Hughes in 1841 or 1851 ....also when was Eli born?
deb
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eli hughes born 1828 tilsbury wiltshire. i wonder if my henry 1839 was william henry and they called him henry as his dad was will.i will look for him under william henry a minute.
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are you there anyone or is it friday night out for all?a bit of dancing perhaps.my husband being a gypsy pastor has gone to church!moaning at me for not going with him.
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Sorry, I've been SOOO slammed at work I haven't had time to even check in regularly, let alone help.
Is there a recent update to refer to? No sense reinventing the wheel....
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Did I see something about Essex?
BURCH, Henry, Sudbury 12 372 (Dec 1838)
BURCH Henry, Epping 12 87 (Sep 1840)
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nothing about essex.sorry.but i have found some old papers and docs about henry 1838 birch so i will read through and hope to give some more clues after lunch.about half an hr.nice to see you on here badger we need your expertise.while i am here i have a problem with my crossword.nocturnal rodent begins with f and 10 letters if anyone can help.see ya soon.love cathay.oh john has found a birth date for one of robert hughes kids so i will be able to get a birth cert.thank |God for that.
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who found a birth date for henry 1842 in st thomas.that might be him.i have looked but cant find it.more details please pretty please.
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Morning Cathay
Hepburn found your Henry b c 1842
here is the ref ...
Henry BURCH
sept q 1842 st thomas
vol 10 p 193
also these ..Henry Burch dec q 1842 Honiton vol 10 p 117
Henry Burch dec q 1846 Axminster ...maybe too late ... can people be registered years after birth ?
hi Badge :D
will be out most of today ...
deb
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yep i think thats him.more in a while.keep looking folks,i need a death for william burch now from 1841 to 1850 to tie in his perantage.a charlotte burch in newton abbott devon workhouse 1841.was she pregnant and left alone.bear in mind ages can vary by 5 years in 1841 cencus.
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i got a death for a william burch dec 1840 plymouth area stoke dameral. vol 9 p.294. do they make mistakes on birth dates?if he henry was born 1842 this could not be his dad.whats think everyone.are ypou all out shopping or watching the football?come back here and play with me please.i promise to share my sweets and be nice?? :o :o :o ::) ::)
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hi cathay
As daft as this might sound its still possible that william death 1840 could still be father of child henry 1842 recheck encase that is baptizm not actual birth
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Until you check a parish register or, after Sept 1837, the civil registration (or both, because people early on would not always register a birth), you can't be positive of a birth/baptism date.
In the case of death, the information is only as good as the person who supplied it.
All of which points to why one needs to find parish registers (which will still have births/baptisms even after civil reg came into being), censuses, marriages, and deaths documents (the last two also being in parish registers).
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ignorant fool that i am,how do i know if its birth or baptism?i found it on ancestry the date of birth i presume.and the death the same.i thought ancestry normally correct?
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are you saying she might have registered the birth awhile after the birth and got the date wrong?do you think it is worth getting the certificate or not,i dont want to waste money.
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ALWAYS get the certificates. It's the only way to prove your findings. Otherwise, it's all just speculation.
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Births were mandated to be registered after Sep 1837, but people didn't always comply right away.
Parish registers will show baptisms; I've seen a few that include both birth and baptism dates (invaluable!!).
Before Sep 1837, parish registers were the only "registrations" of any kind for birth/baptism. Children were usually baptised a month after birth, but not always. I happen to know my grandmother was born in October and not baptized until the following January.
If you haven't already done so, PLEASE visit your local LDS Family History Center (FHC). They are invaluable resources. The Mormons filmed original registers and other parish documents and these are available on microfiche and/or microfilm that you can order sent to your FHC and review there.
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i will do.talktalk and aol are doing some repairs on their lines so its really hit and miss whether i can get on the web or collect emails at the moment.its driving me bonkers.i have over 600 certificates either my own or copies sent to me/but never the one i want.can you get certs before 1837,or do you have to look in the parish registrars?i live in the depths of the country miles from the nearest small town so its difficult for me to get to a decent libary or mormon place.i expect tauntons the nearest and thats 22 miles away and i dont drive!!i am also diabled so its a bug bear.but i do thank you all for your help.its given me a load of leads to look through.i am going to see if any of thomas and elizabeths children(the males)married and had either a charlotte or a william.if they did it might make the connection for henry 1839/42 and my robert 1831.be good would it not.i have quite a few certs to order on monday.is this the end of my hunt now?or does it continue until monday as it did not start till tuersday.anyway whatever,i hope to do some of your hunts with ypou and also continue with friendships made on this one.lots of romany hugs cathay
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;) Hi Cathay, Also trouble with getting on line. Just a quickie re: baptism dates....
My last child was baptised at 9yrs old.... :P :P
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Cathay:
Have you checked out the Unwanted Items boards? Lots of HUGHES certs and things there. Start here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,153.0.html
Good luck!
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yes i should have thought of that,my husband and his sisters were baptised when he was 19 years old!!!but i think its the birth registry i have got hold of.can they be late with that aswell?cathay.oh more bits about some hughes on new link today in the travellers bit.you know on the general board.
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not my hughes unfortunately but john if you read this it would be well worth you looking.they have some turners going spare.love cathay.why does everyone wake up when i off to bed?see you in the morning.good night cathayb
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Here's this weeks Scavenger Hunt..........this one will remain open for any information which may come in later.
Good luck Hunters
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,291536.0.html
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John
do you know where does Pricilla Hughes who married Tom White fit in ???
who her parents are .
Cathay still looking for Henry but nothing as yet
Matilda ;)
Matilda,
This is all I have on Priscilla, but it also shows you who some of her children are, Jessie can be found in other years with Noah Cooper & Annie Hughes (It has on her grave Mother of 21) - that snippit is for any one with a couple of kids drivng them mad ;D
CENSUS:
1. 1901 Census, RG13-1990-19-29 Upway, Dorset.
"Name Age Birthplace Relationship Occupation
Jesse Hughes 28 Chickerell, Dorset, England Head Hawker
Louisa Hughes 26 Chickerell, Dorset, England Wife
Adelaide Hughes 4 Chickerell, Dorset, England Daughter
Priscilla Hughes 1 Chickerell, Dorset, England Daughter
Lucy Hughes under 1 month Upwey, Dorset, England Daughter
Priscilla Hughes 70 Chickerell, Dorset, England Mother
Horace Hughes 25 Chickerell, Dorset, England Brother Hawker
Teresa Hughes 20 Chickerell, Dorset, England Sister Hawker
Dorchester Road, Caravan, Camped with Thomas & Mary A. White."
Sorry if I am being stupid at all but I cannot find anything relating Whites with Hughes. If anyone could help me with this I would be most grateful aswell as any other information they have on the Hughes family and Jesse especially. Thank you
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gosh this gioes back a few years.i will have to recap my memory and re look up some of my records.the whites also used and do today use the name hughes.tom white was the father of maurice white who changed his name to hughes!!!!!there are two separate lines of hughes.one coming from robert hughes born 1818 who married sarah davis.i have that line i think complete if need any info.the other hughes were sometimes called white,issaccs and jones.but my hughes also called themselves jones in the 1871 cencus.as of now unless anyone knows different we dont know the perants of prisilla or tom!!!!i can go forward with them but not back.however you must be related.can you tell me what your connection to them is.
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Hi. Thank you for your swift reply. Sorry for slow reply, had to load my tree up. As you can tell I am new to this but my wife is, as far as we can find, the Great, Great, Granddaughter of Jesse Hughes via his Daughter Charity.
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Welcome to Rootschat, WD.. and welcome to the Scavenger Hunts. I'm sure Cathay will sort it all out for you.
Barbara
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james white and selby ayres's son major white is my great great granddad. if anyone has any more information id really appreciate it
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james white and selby ayres's son major white is my great great granddad. if anyone has any more information id really appreciate it
Hi I have their marriage 1897 15th March Heathlands Kinson Dorset
Major White aged 28 bach -Dealer father Jim White -dealer
Emily Ayres aged 23 - spinster father Venus Ayres- dealer
1871 Kinson Dorset
Name Age
James White 60
Selvy White 55
James White 35
Walter White 30
Edward White 25
Aldria White 20
George White 17
Magar White 15
Samuel White 12
1881 Heatherland Village Poole Dorset
James White 50
Selway White 43
Elderion White 17
George White 14
Major White 12
Samuel White 10
Elizabeth White 8
1911 Gipsy Camp, Beresford Rd Poole Dorset
Major White 42
Emily White 30
Rose White 11
Selley White 9
Elizabeth White 6
Daisey White 2/12
1911 7th May a daughter Daisy White christened Heathlands Dorset
Name: Major White
Registration Year: 1869
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Winchester
Parishes for this Registration District:
Inferred County: Hampshire
Volume: 2c
Page: 95
Name: Major White
Birth Date: abt 1870
Date of Registration: Mar 1958
Age at Death: 88
Registration district: Weymouth
Inferred County: Dorset
Volume: 6a
Page: 711
Name: Major White
Death Age: 88
Burial Date: 25 Jan 1958
Burial Place: Heatherlands, Dorset, England
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brilliant thanks for that. do you know of any photos floating about? or any more information on majors children. rosie may is my great granny but i dont know too much about the others
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brilliant thanks for that. do you know of any photos floating about? or any more information on majors children. rosie may is my great granny but i dont know too much about the others
sorry I do nor have any personal photos, but someone may do ......
Another child
Elsie Mary Ann White
Event Type Christening
Event Date 21 Feb 1913
Event Place Parkstone, Parkstone, Dorset, England
Father's Name Major White
Mother's Name Emily
I cannot be certain I think she married Leonard Sherwood due to family links with Sherwood as Rose married Herbert J Sherwood ( your Grt grandparents ) maybe someone if related to them might know and have photos.