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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Tephra on Tuesday 26 February 08 13:04 GMT (UK)
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Welcome to this weeks Scavenger Hunt and it's SDBadgers' turn. I've read through it and it looks really interesting. I know you'll get your teeth into this one.
Have fun.
Good Luck and Good Hunting.
Barbara
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I am trying to locate the birth/baptism record for my g-g-g-grandfather Joseph HEARNE. Depending on census, he is either of North Repps or Thorpe (Market), Norfolk, and would be born ca. 1790.
I’ve checked both parish registers and do not find him listed in either. Too, I’ve checked variants (HERNE/HURN/HEARN/HURNE/HERN, etc). There is one family having children about the correct time, but I cannot put him with this family.
Joseph HORNE m. Lucy WELLER
17 December 1818, by Banns in Knockholt, Kent. Both are listed “of this parish.”
Witnesses are John WHITEHEAD and Jane WELLER
Joseph signed his name as “HERNE”
(Knockholt parish register entry)
Joseph and Lucy resided in the neighboring parish of Westerham, Kent, and all their children were born there:
Sarah
21 Feb 1819
Eliza
1820
M. Thomas PARRETT Mar 1865, St George Hanover Square, London, Middx
Mary
3 Oct 1822
William
3 Jul 1825
M. Sarah NEIGHBOUR Jun 1853, Camberwell, Surrey
Anne
2 Sep 1827
Hannah
15 Aug 1829
Charlotte
2 Feb 1837
M. Robert LUFF 22 Jun 1862, St George the Martyr, Southwark, Surrey
(note: her father is listed as Thomas HEARNE, but Thomas is her brother)
(marriage cert and parish register entry)
Thomas
26 Jun 1836
(all baptisms from Westerham parish register)
1841 Westerham census “in Town”:
Charlotte Hearne 7
Hannah Hearne 11
Joseph Hearne 45 Postmaster and “Y” for “Whether born in this county”
Lucy Hearne 40
Mary Hearne 15
Thomas Hearne 5
William Hearne 15
1851 Westerham census:
Joseph is 61 and Postmaster born Thorpe, Norfolk
Lucy 56
Eliza ?
William 26 (occ. unreadable)
Emily ? Grand daugh
Mary Ann ? Grand daugh
(census image not easy to decipher; cannot readily locate in ancestry.com; must have been mistranscribed)
(Please note: Amended inclusion for 1851 census. Hearne mistranscribed as THORNE. Barbara)
Joseph Hearne head mar 61 post master b Thorpe Norfolk
Lucy wife mar 54 b Kent , Westerham, Kent
Eliza dau 20 b Westerham , Kent
William son 26 horse keeper b Westerham, Kent
Emily granddaughter 8 b Middlesex , London
Mary Ann 1 grand daughter b Dartford Kent
1861 census on Squerries Lodge, Westerham:
Ann Herne 33 Laundress
Eliza Herne 40 Laundress
Joseph Herne 71 Fly Proprietor Owner Thorpe, Norfolk
Lucy Herne 63
Mary Ann Herne 11 (granddaughter) Scholar
1871 census on High Street, Westerham:
Joseph Hearne 81 Invalid Nortrepps, Norfolk
Lucy Hearne 74
Eliza Parrott 50 (daughter/wife)
Thomas Parrott 42 (son in law) Wheelwright
(all census images from ancestry.com or LDS library Westerham census)
Joseph HEARNE was buried 10 November 1878 and is listed as 90 years old, which would indicate a 1788/9 birth.
(Sevenoaks, 2a 349)
I’ve found him in various trade directories and he seemed to have to do with horses for most of his life.
I’ve ordered his death certificate and may have it in time to glean additional information to provide to the YTG for the hunt.
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bookmarking for when i dont have a headache!
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1841 census Isleworth Middlesex
joseph hearne 55 b 1786 Middlesex bricklayer
mary Hearne 50 b 1791 Middlesex
george hearne 15 b 1826 Middlesex
mary hearne 6 b 1835 Middlesex
1851 census west derby lancashire
joseph Hearne 56 b 1795 bidford Devonshire shoemaker
Sarah Hearne 57 b 1794 chester england
Sarah Hearne 19 b 1832 Kirkdale England
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May not be anything to do with your family
but found these 2
Joseph Hern Christened 8th Feb 1795 Buckland Brewer Devonshire
parents William Hern & Elizabeth
Joseph Hearn Christened 25th Dec 1815 St Etheldreda Norwick Norfolk
parents John Hearn & Hannah
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hey badge ;D ;D
I'm here and bookmarking ...will start asap ...
deb :)
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:D Wahoo Badge. At last.... back soon.
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I can't find him :'( :-\ I wonder if we should look for Hearnes around his age b Thorpe, Norfolk ...perhaps he had siblings....
arrrghhhhh pulling hair out already 8) ::)
deb ;D
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hi Badge
I thought I would fill in some gaps ... although I am not sure if you have got this info, I thought I would post anyway ;D
re Thomas Hearne b 1836 , Westerham, Kent.
1841 ~ with parents
1851~ 104 Grany House, Westerham , kent
Thomas Herne unm 14 gardener
1861~ Lower R?? Manor rd, Surrey
White Lodge
Thomas HARNE unm 25 coachman b Westerham
1871~ St Georges , Hanover square
Thomas Hearne head mar 34 Coachman b westerham
Emily wife 28 b hants
Margaret dau 7 b "
Emily 4 dau b warwickshire
Thomas son 3 b London
Harry son 1 b London
possible marriage;
Thomas Hearne = Emily Buller
sept 1863, Bedmonsey Surrey
deb :D
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:D Where is he..... :-X ;D
A link to bapts in Norfolk via Genuki
http://www.kingslynn-forums.co.uk/norfolkhistory.co.uk/church-records/archdeacon-transcripts/thorpe-market-bap.html
Maybe this is a sister ???
1791 Aug Elisabeth d/o Thomas & Sarah Herne
1794 Nov 9 Hannah d/o Thomas & Sarah Herne
a brother ??? 1798 Jan 31 Thomas s/o Thomas & Sarah HURN
twins ;D 1803 Mar 27 William & Charlotte of Thos & Sarah HURN
There is another couple James & Sarah HURN, children a tad later... starting 1798.
and another couple John and Elizabeth HEARNE.
They had an Elizabeth 1770 Aug 19.
~~~~~~~
I wonder then, if the above is right.
Was Joseph born prior moving to Thorpe?
Was he named Thomas Joseph...... ? s/o Thomas and Sarah?
oooo Badge. ??? ;D ;D
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ooo good ones Lesanne ...
I think that's the way to go ...He must have had siblings ... maybe we should look at 1841 and find Hearne/hern/harne etc etc living in Thorpe.
deb :)
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Hi all
Hope you dont mind me having a go again - made sure I read it all first this time!
I am not sure A) If this is the right family or B) if it is then Badger may already know? But here goes
Mary Ann Hearn 1834 1909
Born Kent Farningham 17.12.1834 died 16.13.1909
Writer of poems stories and hymns and daughter of Joseph Hearn Village Postmaster.
Published nearly 49 Volumes.
Su
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WOW! Thanks to you all! Off to a great start.
In going over some things last night, I'm not sure I've son William marrying the right person. I THINK he may have married Rebecca BENTON, not Sarah NEIGHBOUR. I'll have to get back to the FHC and the films in a day or two. So, in the meantime, you all might want to ignore William!
BTW, I think I neglected to list Joseph's death in 1878, Westerham, Kent, and Lucy's in 1883, Westerham.
tiggi, I don't think those are my people, but thanks very much!
Les, that is very interesting! Woo-HOO! Only my Joseph and Lucy didn't have a daughter Mary Ann, so I'll need to look into that.
I've found the 1791 Elizabeth and family and was dearly hoping they would turn out to be Joseph's, but I didn't find him with them, as I noted earlier. >:(
Many, MANY thanks to you all!
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OOPS! :-[ Credited Les with Su's find of Mary Ann, the writer. Sorry!
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hey badge babe
I think Su's find is brilliant ...how many Joseph Hearnes are postmasters ....
eekkk I am not adding much ... can I just be the supportive person ...I am very good at ..."brilliant! , Well done ! Fabulous ! "
deb
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badge
Do you have William Hearne = Sarah Neighbour or Rebecca Benton in the 1861
deb
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hi again
just another thought ...Hearne is a big gypsy name ...what if he thought he was born in Thorpe ...also he may have decided to marry a gorja and started living as one ....
sorry ... imagination running away with me .... :-[ ::)
deb
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deb:
A William HEARNE m. Rebecca BENTON Jun 1853, Camberwell. The censuses I find for William born the right time and place have wife Rebecca, b. Camberwell, Surrey, in 1838.
At the moment I'm not even sure where Sarah NEIGHBOUR comes from!
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badge
i think William b c 1825 married rebecca ...I have him in 1861 ...and he is a coachman like his brother , Thomas that I posted earlier
1861
Camberwell , St Giles
3 College st
Thomas William Hearne head mar 34 coachman b Westerham Kent
Rebecca wife 24 b laundrefs ( ;D) Surrey Cambs
William son 3 Surrey Cambs
Alice dau 2 b Surrey Cambs
she is 10 years younger ... do you think he was married previously ?
eeekkk just seen your post ...will post this just for easy reference for everyone else
deb 8)
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deb, yes; have William with Rebecca in 1861 Camberwell, Surrey, census.
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Hi folks i was drowning in birth records some interesting threads in Norfolk.
May I just clarify is Josephs birth place Thorpe or Thorpe Market or not sure?- as both are in Norfolk!
There are a little cluster geographically if it is Thorpe Market
Sustead, Felbrigg, Barningham and poss Edgefield all within a few miles of each other.
If you want to follow up Marianne/Mary Ann (and i do hope she is yours) look up Dictionary of National Biography Vol 2 there is an actual biography there!
Will cram some more tomorrow The sleep monsters calling :o
Su
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Su, sorry to confuse you ... Joseph is listed in censuses as Thorpe Market, except for once (if I recall correctly) he is listed as North Repps. Neighboring towns ... I know!
Your "cluster" interests me A LOT! Tell me more!
Many thanks to everyone, btw! This is so cool! ;D
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badge
I have amended post # 17 ...it's William not Thomas that married rebecca ...
sooo William Hearne is also a coachman!
deb ;D
ps ...I feel sure that he may hgave married prior to Rebecca as he is 10 years older than Rebecca ...i will look for him in 1851
eekkk gotta eat BBS
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Will have to keep you in susp til tomorrow have quite a few names to collate to try and make families but will get to it first thing!
I have this theory that many families of that era late 1700 early 1800 didnt move too far afield. (On the other hand others travelled for a living :D) So who knows?
Btw did you notice the son born to Elizabeth and William 19.03.1791 but no name at that time - only draw back is place given at Thetford which puts us out of the cluster zone,
Catch you tomorrow - AH i mean later today
Nite all
Su
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Su, I've been told there was an "8 mile rule," that, basically, you could expect people to migrate away about eight miles a generation; then 12 miles ... Joseph made it quite a bit farther in 28 years or so....
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Deb, we can both be support person..........are you ready, after three........
One
Two
Three..........
Well done you lot, off to a fantastic start I see.
Barbara
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ah ha found something!
Joseph HORNE m. Lucy WELLER
17 December 1818, by Banns in Knockholt, Kent. Both are listed “of this parish.”
Witnesses are John WHITEHEAD and Jane WELLER
Joseph signed his name as “HERNE”
(Knockholt parish register entry)
Jane Geal m. William Weller 07 November 1813 at Westerham
so looks like Jane was Lucys sister in law being married to her brother William
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this may not be connected at all but there was a Jane Geal bapt 05.12.1794 in Ripe East SUssex d/o William Geal & Sarah Medhurst
so this Jane would have been 19 at the time of the marriage to William Weller - that would tie in nicely but there is no proof that these Janes are one and the same
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now in 1841 William Weller and wife Jane were both listed as being born in Kent :-\ (will check 1851 perhaps this does rule out Jane Geal from Ripe) (the children are alos listed as being born Kent)
Westerham
HO107 485 13 24 9
William 60 Shoemaker
Jane 50
Caroline 15
Jane 8
interstingly Jane Geal from Ripe SUssex had a sister Caroline
am i going over old ground here ?
Jane is listed as being 50 thus making her born circa 1791 i know ages were rounded down and this would give scope to her being born 1794 (in Ripe ;D )
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having trouble locating the right Jane Weller in 1851 :-\
so tried looking for child Jane (from 1841)
again having difficulty but based on her being born 1833 in Kent i have found this :~
HO107 1621 25 15
Rectory, Marden
F F Haslewood Head Mar 47 Curate f marden b. Middlesex St Pancras
C E Haslewood wife mar 46 wife of curate of marden b. Tunbridge Wells Kent
Caroline HAslewood dau. 9 scholar at home b. R(ainham???) looks like Rainham but thats not Kent!
E. E do. dau 7 scholar at home b. do.
P. F do. dau. 5 scholar at home b. do.
E H Marsh servant Unmarried 20 house servant b. Marden
Jane Weller servant U 18 house serant b. Pluckley
what do you guys reckon?
and Caroline ??
Caroline Weller born Lewisham Kent age 25 Unmarried sister in law (listed after the rest of the household)
George Hopperd head mar 30 labourer b. godstone
Elizabeth wife 37 b. Bexley Kent
William G I son 3 b. Lewisham
Sarah dau. 2 b. do.
i am not entirely sure if the surname it looks diiferent for Sarah than it does for George
Hanson Street Lewisham
HO107 1591 311 7
re the 1841 census
if the children are indeed children of William Weller & jane Geal then i think there must have been some born prior to Caroline in 1826 after all they married in 1813, and also betwixt Caroline & Jane (1833) (perhaps tehy didn't survive)
i think Jane was pretty much likely to be the youngest child as Jane (mother) would have been in her early 40's
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re my last post i don't am not conviced that these are the correct Jane & Caroline from the 1841 census and i cannot find Jane(Geal) & William in 1851 :-\
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i don't think anyone is around today! ???
ok still in 1851 and still working on the Geal /Weller connection
GentleBank Farm Sundridge (this is very near to westerham)
HO107 1613 377 6
....... Duncan head widow 53 baliffs widow b. Scotland
Thomas Duncan son U 32 Baliff b. Kent Lewisham
Jane do. dau. S 29 b. do.
Elizabeth dau S 12 b. Sunbridge KEnt
William Geal (Uncle ???) Unmarried Servant 40 Ag Lab b. Westerham
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Hi Toni :D
I'm here ... wow you have been busy ..need to catch up!
I have been looking for the other children of Joseph Hearne and Lucy Weller..
so far this is all I have ...
1851;
Hannah Hearne unm 22 house servant b Westerham working in the home of Henry Cox and family, a landed proprietor farming 290, acres. They are in Limpsfield , Surrey.
Cannot find her after that .... arrgghhhh
deb
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also
1851;
Westerham;
Joseph Hearne head mar 61 post master b Thorpe Norfolk
Lucy wife mar 54 b Kent , Westerham, Kent
Eliza dau 20 b Westerham , Kent
William son 26 horse keeper b Westerham, Kent
Emily granddaughter 8 b Middlesex , London
Mary Ann 1 grand daughter b Dartford Kent
In 1861;1861 census on Squerries Lodge, Westerham:
Ann Herne 33 Laundress
Eliza Herne 40 Laundress
Joseph Herne 71 Fly Proprietor Owner Thorpe, Norfolk
Lucy Herne 63
Mary Ann Herne 11 (granddaughter) Scholar
who do these grandchildren belong to?
deb
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i did try to find a mrraige for Hannah Hearne but i was unsuccessful i think i looked up to 1851!
I have some more information of Jane Geal from Ripe (parents/ siblings) but i dont want to post it in case shes not our Jane Geal. (i.e. the one who married William Weller)
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Emily Horne b. Q4 1842 Stepney 2 485
Mary Ann Hearne Q3 1849 Dartford 5 100
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hi again
Thought I would finish this family .. Thomas s/o Joseph hearne and Lucy Weller..
hi Badge
I thought I would fill in some gaps ... although I am not sure if you have got this info, I thought I would post anyway ;D
re Thomas Hearne b 1836 , Westerham, Kent.
1841 ~ with parents
1851~ 104 Grany House, Westerham , kent
Thomas Herne unm 14 gardener
1861~ Lower R?? Manor rd, Surrey
White Lodge
Thomas HARNE unm 25 coachman b Westerham
1871~ St Georges , Hanover square
Thomas Hearne head mar 34 Coachman b westerham
Emily wife 28 b hants
Margaret dau 7 b "
Emily 4 dau b warwickshire
Thomas son 3 b London
Harry son 1 b London
possible marriage;
Thomas Hearne = Emily Buller
sept 1863, Bedmonsey Surrey
deb :D
1881
??avren House stables , Surrey
Thomas hearne head mar 44 Coach man domestic b Weterham
Emily wife 38 Coldsfield west heath, Hants
Emily Ann dau 14 Sutton warwickshire
Thomas son 13 b "
Harry son 11 b Westminster , Middlesex
Frank son 9 "
Fred son 5 Epsom, Surrey
Rose dau 3 "
Edith dau 2 "
1891
Lancaster, Bolton le sands
Middle Lodge
Thomas Hearne 55 domestic servany, groom
Emily wife 48
Margaret dau 27 dom. serv
Harry son 21 groom
Frank son 19 hall boy
Rose dau 13
Edith dau 12
Ada dau 9 b Epsom, Surrey
1901
Lancashire, barwick
Ivy Cottage
Thos hearne 64 retired coachman/groom
Emily wife 58
Frank son unm 29 garden lab
1901;
Rose, 21, cook and Edith, 19 , housemaid are working in the home of an Estate agent,. They both say they are born, Surrey, Kingswood Warren.
phew ...lots of kids :o
deb
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well done Deb,
have we had any luck working backwards with Joseph Hearne? maybe the earthquake would have shook some records out of hiding!
i was concentrating on the Wellers as i came in late and didnt know what Hearne info. was found.
not sure if Badger already has the info. re the Wellers so wil wait for her reply.
will bbl (hoepfully)
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Hi Toni
Joseph Hearne = Lucy Weller ..is Badge's BIG brickwall ...she cannot find his christening ....... ::) ::) ::)
deb :D
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i cannot find it either :-\
but i have found this ;) ;D
children of William Weller & Jane Geal - Westherham
GEORGE WELLER - : 01 APR 1823
HENRY WELLER - : 04 SEP 1825
CHARLES WELLER - : 04 MAR 1824
ANNE WELLER - : 08 DEC 1816
KITTY JEWELL WELLER - 23 SEP 1827
CAROLINE WELLER - : 09 SEP 1821
MARIA WELLER -: 26 SEP 1830
WILLIAM WELLER - 16 OCT 1814
THOMAS WELLER -: 28 FEB 1819
must really go now, will work some more on this later when OH is at football
HORACE WELLER - : 15 MAR 1835
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/kent/have_your_say/community/romany_voices_archive55.shtml
Deb,you're right about them being Gipsies
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Is this the same Emily on IGI?
Emily Amelia HORNE, bapt. 30 Oct 1842, Saint Dunstan, Stepney - parents William HORNE and Sophia.
The same couple have:
Sophia (1838)
Ann Hannah (1841)
Jemima (1844)
Frederick William (1845)
William Thomas (1849)
Not sure - I can see the family in 1851, and although the spelling is horrible, they seem to have all the children with them, including an "Amsty" ("Amely"?) aged 8.
HO107/1554; Folio 515; Page 47
Rambler
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http://www.romanygenes.webeden.co.uk/18611871census/4522533901.......Hearn family on here..
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http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gypsy/gypsyc.htm
Kent Gypsy baptism's.....Hearne's and Penfold's Deb....
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http://www.geocities.com/seraphim_angel_2002/GypsyCensus41.html
another interesting site...
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Hi Hepburn and Rambler
I think we need to look into the gypsy side although everything at the moment points to them being grounded in one area.
I have been through 1841 under the "H's" looking for Hearne and variations of it ... these are the people there ...they have to be related to Badge's Joseph Hearne
okay here goes;
1841, Norfolk
John Hearne (transcribed as Heara) 30 , Thorpe Lodge, Thorpe
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Thorpe Market
William HERN 35
Mary 35
Elizabeth 15
John 15
Hannah 13
William 12
Robert 11
George 6
next door
Philip HERN 42
Sarah 35
Thomas 15
James 15
Mary 15
Sarah 13
Margaret 12
Eliza 8
Charlotte 6
Joseph 2
William 2 months
next door
Ann HERN 50
Thomas 20
Sarah 15
James 12
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Thorpe Green
James HERNE 40
Charlotte 35
Ephrahim 14
James 11
Martha 6
Saeah 3
George 2
William 1 month
also Thorpe green
Ephraim HURN 35
Elizabeth25
William 12
jane 10
henry 9
George 8
John 5
Emily 3
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thorpe market
James HORN (def. Hern) 70 Baker
Ann 75
This couple woul be old enough to be Joseph Hearne's parents!
deb :)
added ...thanks for those sites Hepburn ..will read once I post this ... :)
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Marriage for Hannah HEARNE (1829):
Marriages Jun 1852
COLEMAN Frederick
HEARNE Hannah
Strand 1b 562
1861 census
RG9/489; Folio 61; Page 16
Westerham, Kent
Frederick COLEMAN - Head - Wid - 29 - Carpenter - Westerham
Ellen M COLEMAN - Dau - 7 - Westerham
George R COLEMAN - Son - 3 - Westerham
Charlotte HARNE - Sister-in-law - 27 - Housekeeper - Westerham
Deaths Mar 1861
COLEMAN Hannah
Sevenoaks 2a 267
Rambler
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ooooooooo WELL DONE RAMBLER !!!
deb :D
added The Charlotte Harne (sic ) sister-in-law ... is the Charlotte that marries Robert Luff.
Great find there , Rambler ...
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so to summarize;
Children of Joseph Hearne and Lucy Weller all b Westerham:
Sarah HEARNE ??? not with parents in 1841/51/61 ...maybe married before 1841
21 Feb 1819
Eliza HEARNE = Thomas PARRETT
1820
Mary HEARNE = KENNARD John
3 Oct 1822
William HEARNE = Rebecca BENTON
3 Jul 1825
Anne HEARNE chr 2 sept 1827 ...she is unm and with parents in 1861, we don't have her in 1851 or after 1861 ...added ...1851~ with her sister Mary kennard nee Hearne
Hannah HEARNE = Frederick COLEMAN (she dies Mar 1861) thx to Rambler :)
15 Aug 1829
Charlotte HEARNE = Robert LUFF 22 June 1862
2 Feb 1837
Thomas HEARNE = EMILY BULLER (we have him and Family through all censuses)
26 Jun 1836
deb
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Hiya All
Some great developments since last here! :D (My turn to cheer you on now!) ;D
Been sifting through Herne, Hern,Hearne, Hearn, Hurn, Hurne, Hyrne, Hyrn, Hirn, Hirne even Thyrne, Sterne and Ferne! >:( But no Josephs! Plenty of Marys though :D
Just going to check on a couple of marriages and will be back.
Su
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Two for the price of one....
Marriages Jun 1848
HEARNE Mary
KENNARD John
Lambeth 4 340
1851
HO107/1566; Folio: 232; Page: 35
18 (?)Swan St, Newington, Surrey
John KENNARD - Head - 25 - Gardener - Lamberhurst, Kent
Mary KENNARD - Wife - 24 - Westerham
Emily KENNARD - Dau - 16 mo - Westerham
Anne HEARNE - Sister-in-law - 23 - Dressmaker - Westerham
Rambler
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Marriage for Hannah HEARNE (1829):
Marriages Jun 1852
COLEMAN Frederick
HEARNE Hannah
Strand 1b 562
Rambler
well done i only looked up to 1841 u think for Hannahs marriage maybe up to 1851
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WOW!
I kept checking and didn't see that we'd added two pages of replies ... don't know where to start....
Thanks for the Romany sites ... will def check them out.
I seem to recall seeing a Philip somewhere along the research road, but could never hook him up to Joseph.
Yes, Charlotte was housekeeper for widowed BiL in 1861.
Also, while most often spelled correctly as GEAL, it would also be spelled as JEAL in a few records. Again, I've the PR and BT for Westerham on permanent loan at my FHC, so I can get back to them and check this stuff out. LOTS of GEALs in Westerham through the years.
Still wondering about Emily and Mary Ann ... always assumed they would turn out to be William's or Thomas', but that doesn't seem to be the case.
You folks are fab! Thank you so very much! You are aces!
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i cannot find it either :-\
but i have found this ;) ;D
children of William Weller & Jane Geal - Westherham
GEORGE WELLER - : 01 APR 1823
HENRY WELLER - : 04 SEP 1825
CHARLES WELLER - : 04 MAR 1824
ANNE WELLER - : 08 DEC 1816
KITTY JEWELL WELLER - 23 SEP 1827
CAROLINE WELLER - : 09 SEP 1821
MARIA WELLER -: 26 SEP 1830
WILLIAM WELLER - 16 OCT 1814
THOMAS WELLER -: 28 FEB 1819
must really go now, will work some more on this later when OH is at football
HORACE WELLER - : 15 MAR 1835
This might go with above....
John Weller + Frances Jewell Kent 10/11/1777 (no Place mentioned)
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Rambler
BRILLIANT !!!!
Hi Badge ;D
added ...I have updated the summary of the children ;D
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While we are trying to locate Joseph's birth ... ;D
John Weller, 1720, Knockholt, Kent, m. Sarah, 1724, Knockholt (don't have marriage yet)
Children are:
Thomas, 26 Oct 1746
John, 23 Oct 1748
George, 6 Jun 1751
Sarah, 31 May 1752
George, 19 Jun 1757
Mary, 21 Apr 1760
Frances, 20 Jun 1762
Henry, 9 Jan 1765
To this point, I've only followed Henry who married Esther Ovenden, 1766, Westerham (so she says). They married 15 Apr 1792 in Westerham.
Their children are:
Henry, 10 Jun 1792
Jane, 17 Aug 1794
Lucy, 11 Jun 1797
William, 15 Mar 1801
John, 29 May 1803
Hester, 21 Sep 1806
Henry m. Elizabeth Pattenden
Children:
Amelia, 1826
Henry, 1829
Esther, 1832
Ellen, 1836
Amos, 1839
Lucy we know about....
John m. Sarah ?
and I've only one child for them, William, 1839. I've not followed John and Sarah or William any further, at this point.
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Holy Genealogists!
I just copied everything to a Word doc and it's already 17 pages! My Lord, people!! Thanks sooooo very much!
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will BBS ...katie has temp ...have to pick her up from school...
see ya in a bit
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Thanks for the links, hepburn! The first was my post and I do not see any reply to it. The second aren't my people; I've been to that site and revisit it frequently.
If anyone has access to early trade directories in Norfolk, I'd very much appreciate a look to see if Joseph is there up to about 1818 when we know he is in Kent. We think his birth would be 1789/90 in Norfolk (Thorpe Market or North Repps).
Thanks again for all the help!
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do you think your Jane Geal that married William Weller (ooh i went to school with a Weller)
could be the Jane Geal that was christened in 1794 in Ripe East Susex?
i have details for her parents siblings etc.
Lesanne,
John Weller m. Frances Jewell 10 Nov 1777 at Westerham
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While we are trying to locate Joseph's birth ... ;D
John Weller, 1720, Knockholt, Kent, m. Sarah, 1724, Knockholt (don't have marriage yet)
the only marriage i can see on IGI thats possible is
sumbitted :-\
John Weller & Sarah Brooks 07 March 1735 at Speldhurst
seeing as your John & Sarah were both from Knockholt and their childern were born there i would have though they would have married in Knockholt also and teh above marriage not be the one you are looking for.
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;D ;D Were we looking for a Caroline....
Online Document PROB 11/1245
Will of The Honorable Lady Caroline Herne or Horne , of Great Yarmouth , Norfolk
Date: 1794.
M'lady Badge..... ;D
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Agree, toni ... THANKS!
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LOL, Les ... that would be too good to be true! Is it only indexed? I think I'll check A2A to see if it might be there, unless you have another link to it?
Thanks!!!
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Henry m. Elizabeth Pattenden
Children:
Amelia, 1826
Henry, 1829
Esther, 1832
Ellen, 1836
Amos, 1839
Lucy we know about....
John m. Sarah ?
and I've only one child for them, William, 1839. I've not followed John and Sarah or William any further, at this point.
so where does William who married jane Geal fit in ?
to make Jane Weller the witness at Lucy Wellers wedding?
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:D
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?queryType=1&resultcount=1&Edoc_Id=378681
This should take you straight through to the shopping/checkout page.
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im having trouble getting my head round these Wellers, need to think about it for a bit!
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Sorry folks my internet playin up keeps sending stuff twice!
Sodeleted this txt Aargh >:(
Su
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toni, PLEASE don't worry too much about the WELLERs. The hunt is actually to try to locate Joseph HEARNE's birth/baptism/family in Norfolk about 1790.
Failing that (and we have so far ... LOL!), he might be listed in a Norfolk trade directory or something to which I've not had access. Or Thorpe Market or North Repps parish records OTHER than the parish register itself.
The WELLERs are Lucy WELLER's line; she married Joseph HEARNE in 1818.
Thanks for all your help!
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May I ask a query Lesanne?
On page one (nine down) /guess who doesn't know how to do the blue box thingy ???
You referenced for 31.01.1798 A Thomas born to Thomas and Sarah Hurn ? Can't find him? Is he poss the Thomas and Mary Hurn son?
It would be good if he was Thomas/Sarah son .... but?
Also Debs how is young un?
Thanks Su
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Sorry, I ended up having to go into work and just got home. Deb, how is Katie?
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Su, go to the post you want to quote and click on its "Quote" box on upper right. It will then appear in another box (with a bunch of code) and you can then proceed with your query.
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Cheers Badger will stop me sounding like a crossword 3 up four down!
Su ;D
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hi guys
Katie was red faced when I picked her up ...temp = 101.7 ...she has had tylenol and has eaten but she is a bit sheepish and has glazy eyes (errr glazy does not look right LOL ) .... I have to keep her home tomorrow ...Here in NC you have to be temperature free for 24 hours ....
anyway ....what if Joseph was actually Thomas Joseph?? ... I think this was refered to earlier by lesanne ...
deb
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just another thought Badge ... I would certainly ignore the North Repps ... He stated all his live that he was born , Thorpe ...he is an invalid and living with his daughter and s-i-l when it is stated -North Repps
deb
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To back you up on that Debs, I don't remember any
North Repps at all - they have all been
South Repps or Thorpe Market.
Su
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1841: Joseph b. Kent ("Y" for yes of the county)
1851: Joseph b. Thorpe
1861: Joseph b. Thorpe
1871: Joseph b. Northrepps
Does everyone have their own affairs in order so that OUR decendants don't have these same issues??? ;D
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DEB!!! Just caught up with your earlier Norfolk 1841s ... great work, doll!
Someone has got to be related to Joseph ...
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Su ...
to quote badge
"1871 census on High Street, Westerham:
Joseph Hearne 81 Invalid Nortrepps, Norfolk
Lucy Hearne 74
Eliza Parrott 50 (daughter/wife)
Thomas Parrott 42 (son in law) Wheelwright"
he is obviously sickly here and not giving the info .... so I would stick with the POB as being THORPE
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deb:
I just wouldn't discount either place ... and, to quote Wikipedia: "The parish church of Northrepps is called St Mary the Virgin and the present church dates from the 15th century but there are records of a church on this site before 1066."
Thorpe Market (from Wikipedia): "The parish church of Thorpe Market is called St Margaret’s. The present church was built in 1796 on the site of an older mediaeval church."
Northrepps is noted as 3.3 miles from Cromer; Thorpe Market is 4.4 miles from Cromer.
Now I guess I need to look in Cromer....
Also, yes, he was an invalid in the 1871 census, but he lived another seven years; might not have lost his faculties.
There may not have been a church at Thorpe Market when he was born; the new one went up in 1796 and there is a big gap in IGI records, per Hugh Wallis.
Maybe he was born in Thorpe Market but, lacking a church, was christened in Northrepps (even though it isn't found) ... OR <big drum roll here> he is the Thomas Joseph baptised in 1796 and they waited until the church was built to do it????
Remember, Charlotte's father is listed as Thomas on her marriage cert ... what if....
P.S. Give Katie a big hug for me; I hope she's feeling much better real soon!
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RATS! Nothing in Hugh Wallis for Cromer, Norfolk.
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Sorry folks having massive net problems but will leave you this to ponder.
Theory (mostly presumption!)
Thomas and Sarah Herne/Hurn
D Elisabeth DOB 10.08.1791
D Hannah DOB 09.11.1794
S Philip DOB 03.03.1800
S Willliam DOB 26.03.1803 Twin
D Charlotte DOB 26.03.1803 Twin
What if Thomas and Sarah Hearne/Hurn were one and the same people?
I agree their is a gap between 1794 and 1800. But perhaps there is another spelling of the name that i have missed.
All these children were born in Thorpe Market.
Thomas and Sarah are producing at exactly the right time for Joseph.
The names of these children are remarkably similar to the children of Joseph and Lucy's marriage.
So can we fill the gap and can we connect a Joseph to them?
Su
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Su:
I agree completely that these are very good probables for being Joseph's parents ... I was so sure I'd find him in their family when I went through the PR.
I don't know what to think. This would go to show that there was a church in Thorpe Market in the time before the new one being built in 1796, so, if this is his family, why no Joseph.
Now that I think his birth might have been 1788-9, not 1790, the fact that the register is extremely damaged for the few years (if I recall correctly) prior to Elizabeth's birth....
I'll check for deaths of children that might explain the gap of six years.
Thanks for your great work on this puzzle!
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I found this Philip HERN in 1841 ...he is gfood for the baptism that su found
Philip HERN 42,,,from Su : Philip DOB 03.03.1800
Sarah 35
Thomas 15
James 15
Mary 15
Sarah 13
Margaret 12
Eliza 8
Charlotte 6
Joseph 2
William 2 months
deb
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Think so, deb. Although I did find one Maria HERNE in 1841 Northrepps as a domestic; born in county.
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deb, I've seen all those records ... just can't find bloomin' Joseph!!! Really do think it likely his family or aunt, uncle, and cousins ...
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:D Where is he..... :-X ;D
A link to bapts in Norfolk via Genuki
http://www.kingslynn-forums.co.uk/norfolkhistory.co.uk/church-records/archdeacon-transcripts/thorpe-market-bap.html
Maybe this is a sister ???
1791 Aug Elisabeth d/o Thomas & Sarah Herne
1794 Nov 9 Hannah d/o Thomas & Sarah Herne
a brother ??? 1798 Jan 31 Thomas s/o Thomas & Sarah HURN
twins ;D 1803 Mar 27 William & Charlotte of Thos & Sarah HURN
There is another couple James & Sarah HURN, children a tad later... starting 1798.
and another couple John and Elizabeth HEARNE.
They had an Elizabeth 1770 Aug 19.
~~~~~~~
I wonder then, if the above is right.
Was Joseph born prior moving to Thorpe?
Was he named Thomas Joseph...... ? s/o Thomas and Sarah?
oooo Badge. ??? ;D ;D
Here it is Su...
Includes the link to Thorpe Market Baptisms
Added.... ;D smack wrist.... I missed William Herne 1772 May 24th s/o John & Elizth
Phillip is in there too...
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Hi i know your really looking for Jospeh Hearnes bapt. but i dont really have access to records in that area other than IGI and everyone else is doing a great job on the other stuff so i thought i would get on with the Weller side
if you can prove that Lucy Geal who married William Weller is the one from Ripe East SUssex, she appears in my tree (albeit on a remote branch) she does not have a spouse in my tree but she does have siblings and parents, grandparents etc. this is obvious an interest to me.
do you already have the bapt date for Jane Weller? and therefore her parents i now you gave me some info. yesterday but is it confirmed?
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toni, Jane WELLER, daugh of Henry and Esther (Ovenden) WELLER was baptised 17 Aug 1794 in Westerham. I have not followed her further. The information is straight from the Westerham parish register, so it is confirmed.
I have no idea of Lucy GEAL marrying William WELLER. When was this marriage?
William WELLER, son of Henry and Esther, was baptised 15 Mar 1801. Is this the William you mean?
Thanks!
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Thanks very much for the link, Les ... but I've yet to find any proof of any of mine there. >:(
It is promising, though, that the two families were having children at the right time, but where the bloody heck is Joseph??? That's why I'm hoping someone might have access to other records or directories that might put a Joseph HEARNE (or any variant) in the area from 1800 through about 1818 (when we know he was in Kent).
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toni:
If you are able to access Kent records easily, Esther OVENDEN's birth/baptism eludes me.
The marriage entry states she is of Westerham, but I can't find the record. Her birth would have been about 1797.
Finding her parents and sibs would be a huge help!!
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ah ha found something!
Joseph HORNE m. Lucy WELLER
17 December 1818, by Banns in Knockholt, Kent. Both are listed “of this parish.”
Witnesses are John WHITEHEAD and Jane WELLER
Joseph signed his name as “HERNE”
(Knockholt parish register entry)
Jane Geal m. William Weller 07 November 1813 at Westerham
so looks like Jane was Lucys sister in law being married to her brother William
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toni, Lucy's brother William was only baptised in 1801, so an 1813 marriage can't be him.
I think the Jane WELLER who witnessed Lucy's marriage is her own big sister (bap. 17 Aug 1794).
There are enough GEALs in Westerham, that I MUST be related to them at some point! LOL!
Too, Henry's sibs might have a William or two among their children. Do we know who the parents are of William WELLER who m. Jane GEAL? Henry had the following sibs:
Thomas, 26 Oct 1746
John, 23 Oct 1748
George, 6 Jun 1751
Sarah, 31 May 1752
George, 19 Jun 1757
Mary, 21 Apr 1760
Frances, 20 Jun 1762.
Thanks for all your work on my behalf! I really appreciate it!
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Joseph's death cert just arrived and confirms his daughter Mary KENNARD as she was present at death 5 November 1878.
He was 90, so most likely had already had his birthday that year, which would put his birth at 1788 ...
He is listed as a Coachman and domestic servant and COD was "Natural Decay."
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Hi Badger
Death certificates arrival well timed ;)
Does it just give his name as Joseph (no other names?)
Still turning stones, not deserted you - there is a clue out there somewhere - just wished I lived in Norfolk!
Will keep at it - Su ;D
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Just Joseph HEARNE ...
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Just now that is an interesting name ;D no just joking ;D
Needed a laugh after all these Herne, Hern , Horne.... well you know the drill ;)
Back to the drawingboard!
Su :D
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LOL, Su ... there have got to be directories out there somewhere for the area! AARRGGHHHH!
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Badger - straw clutching now!
Have you/ or are you able to look at the actual parish registers, for Thorpe Market and North repps?
Have you come across The Dart series of Norfolk Parish Registers (on CD) PRTSOC.ORG.UK
I am sure Joseph is there somewhere!
Aargh - frustrating :D
Su
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Su, I've looked at the PRs for both parishes (LDS films) ... gonna look again now that I think he was born 1788/9, not 1790. But they are in such sorry shape ... chunks of pages missing ... and fairly certain I was smart enough to look years ahead and years behind. ;D
Don't know of Dart series???
Also, thinking I need to expand horizons and look to other records, not just PRs and BTs ...
Straw-clutching good!
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If you go to PRTSOC.org.uk and at the top header press the transcripts - think available on CD prob pennies though! And you have to take the chance someone spotted something you didn't.
Perhaps CD/s in library somewhere to look at?
In Norfolk good history of Herne's going back to 1100 just need to fill in the gap Eh?
Well I'm goin to call it a night. C u tomorrow and will try to think laterally about how to approach this!
Su
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Thanks so much, Su! Sleep well, Lord knows I need everyone sharp! LOL!
I'm going to order the CD. Thanks!
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Hi Badger
Found this site for Historical Directories
http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/index.asp
Been perusing but no hits yet - tried postmaster Herne/Hearn but no joy. But you might have more sucess (said she optimistically)! ;D
Catch you later
Su
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hi everyone
I fear that I am not helping much ...I did go through IGI this morning for Norfolk using just the name Joseph b c 1789 +/- 5 years ... hoping to find him Mistranscribed as Thorne/Sterne etc etc ... no luck ..Nada!
eekkkkk ... any other suggestions ?
deb ;D
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Thanks so much for trying, deb! I really appreciate it!
Think you've covered the bases....
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Su, the directories aren't early enough ... that's been my issue all along, dagnabit!
I wrote to Sandringham (talk about a stretch!) to see if they held any historical staff records, thinking maybe Joseph might have worked there a while on his way to Kent. They referred me to Windsor, where all such records are kept. So, I guess I write Windsor again (have contacted them previously regarding OTHER brick wall).
Soldier on, troops! There's rum awaiting at the end of the hunt! ;D
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Dumb Question now
Is the anyway of searching the registers on any sites by just putting in Births -Male - Thorpe Market - 1780 to 1795?
I get a bit frustrated because I am not subscribed to any census sites and rely on Freecen/Reg/BMD - which has limited search parameters. (But by Gum I'd be stuck without it! So not complaining :D)
Many refernces to Joseph Herne everywhere but not yours Badger! :(
Btw Debs is your lass ne better?
Su
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Soldier on, troops! There's rum awaiting at the end of the hunt! ;D
HUUUUURAAAHHHH ... soldiering onward and upward ... don't like rum though ... bribe me with good old red and I'll soldier on a little more ;D
Su ..thanks for asking ...Katie fell asleep rather early on Wed. and I was hoping she would sleep late , as I could not send her to school (have to be 24 hours temp free before going back). usually I have to PULL her outa bed ... she woke at 6;45am ...arrghhhh :o ::) ;D ..I made he go back to bed ... aso she had to read and do homework the whole day ...it's NO fun being at home with me LOL
Badge ...give me something to do ...I am hopeless with the older stuff unless it's on IGI ...are you missing any censuses for your family .... let me know
deb :D
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So glad to hear she has been sleeping well (even if not for quite long enough ;D)
Sleep a good healer & (Also old remedy Garlic Milk great for fevers, you may have heard of it.)
Getting to head/brick wall with this Joseph Herne, I cannot find a ref to him being postmaster anywhere, let alone Kent!
Going to try a few Kent village searches and see what I can come up with - I'm off on the hunt.
Su
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hi Su
You would think with him being the postmaster there would be info on National archives as well ...I think the name has been mistranscribed EVERYWHERE.... it could be Nearne for all we know ... I have even tried ..Joseph , Postmaster , Thorpe ....nada .
deb .....
ps ...he should have left a will I am thinking ,,,he is not the usual ag lab person ...
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Su, Joseph HEARNE is listed as Post Master only on the 1851 census. He is 61 and from Thorpe, Norfolk.
Lucy, Eliza, William, and Emily are with him.
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Thanks Badger
Ploughing through The Weald of Kent, Surrey & Sussex directories.
Found Eliza living in the Almshouses in the High Street Age 83.
Just looking througha few older trade directories any port in a storm!
Su
I've only just found out what a fly is as well - Learn something new everyday ;D
Su
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Joseph HEARNE is listed in the 1858 Melville and Co. Directory of Kent under Traders, page 386, as hack master.
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Woohoo
Well done that man!
Just for note there is a very grand house called Quebec House/Squerrys Court - I think they are the same place? (Brain function ceasing!)
Sorry about the postmaster bit thought he was postmaster on the original list for 1841 and 1851 - Whoops :P
Su
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badge
what is a hack master?
deb
ps I am in chat as well ...yawn! ;D
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A horse carriage driver ... hack master, fly proprietor, coachman, coach master ...
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A cabbie with a horse, deb ... and I'm in chat, too!
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OOPSY! You are absolutely right, Su ... Joseph was Post Master in the 1841, too. Sheesh ...
SORRY!
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hey badge
Thanks for that ...
just a reminder ...order the other child's marriage cert....
night deb 8)
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Well Badger a whole day and not a bit of new :(
I will keep a constant eye open for him - especially the trade directories.
Is there a census record for that grand house I mentioned?
I noticed in his death cert that he wa also listed as Domestic Servant so could be a possiblity, may even be household records?
Will try again tomorrow.
Su ;)
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Thought of that. Have heard from Sandringham who gave me Royal Archives e-mail, but it bounced back, so will send by post.
Checked the census ... still looking into that. And have gotten BT.com HURN in the area of Thorpe Market. Will write to see if anyone a rellie. Did the same for HEARNE in Kent (none listed in Westerham).
Thanks so much, su ... appreciate all your help.
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Hi Badger
One little thing I came across whilst doing the post office hunt.
1841 & 1851 ;)
Royal Mail apparantly have a very good archive center with records going back to 1719!
They have appointment books, with a central register for each employee. (Introduced in 1831). (I'm hoping it may give up some personal details?)
http://www.royalmailgroup.com/heritage/dda/index.htm
I hope this brings you some luck.
Thanks for allowing me to take part. I've not been very productive and created more work than answered questions! But have really enjoyed it and shall keep my eyes peeled.
Let me know if you have any success please ;D
Good Luck Su
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Oh, Su! You've been great! Thanks so much for all your help and PLEASE keep old Joe in mind! ;D
Thanks so very much for the link ... I'll get RIGHT on it!
Bless you!!
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Np Badger won't forget
Su
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Thank you ALL so very, very much! I appreciate the help, the insights, and the results of all your hard work.
Now, on to the next hunt!
xoxoxo badger
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This one will still be running Badger.......any more information the Hunters find will still come here. ;D
Barbara
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OK folks.................here's this weeks Scavenger Hunt, but please keep digging for details on ALL the others.......... ;D ;D
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,290053.0.html
Barbara
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:o I knew I'd seen Weller wid u Badge..... :o 8)
copied from this thread's page 1....
Joseph HORNE m. Lucy WELLER
17 December 1818, by Banns in Knockholt, Kent. Both are listed “of this parish.”
Witnesses are John WHITEHEAD and Jane WELLER
Joseph signed his name as “HERNE”
(Knockholt parish register entry)
Have these Weller's anything to do with the Bucks ones.... ;D
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SUCCESS!
After ALL this time I've got him! Another researcher (HURN) has doggedly pursued Joseph while trying to sort out his own Norfolk family. Yesterday, Mike sent me four more generations worth of my HEARNE family!
Joseph, bap. 1 Sep 1789 Southrepps, was the son of Thomas HERNE and Mary ROBINSON.
Thomas, bap. 26 Dec 1756 Sheringham, was the son of John HURN and Uriah/Ursula MASON.
John, bap. 25 July 1731 Edgefield, was the son of Thomas HERN and Mary [unknown].
Thomas, bap. 14 Jul 1695, was the son of Thomas HURN and Elizabeth [unknown].
Thomas, bap. ca 1660 Edgefield.
More work to do but this info is amazing!
Thanks again to everyone who helped with this search!
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wow badger:
good for you.
cheers
Annemc
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Thanks, Anne! Should give everyone hope! LOL!
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Great finds Mike, well done. Yup, never give up, eh Badger. :D
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Great find, Badger........ really good news ;)
Barbara
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Thomas Herne/Hurne bap 14 July 1695, father Thomas and mother Elizabeth Watkins. They were married 18 Nov 1684 in Cockthorpe. They are my ancestors too! Let me know if you want more
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WOW, Jules!
Another RCer sent me an e-mail today about this. I would LOVE to investigate and collaborate! Look for a PM from me.
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Jules, because you haven't posted at least three times on the Forums, you won't have received my two PMs to you. (Have to post at least three times; it's to cut down on spam.)
REALLY hope you get in touch with me. We ARE related!
Many thanks!
badger