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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Ewan on Tuesday 26 February 08 09:38 GMT (UK)
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I am looking for 2 brothers on various censuses can anyone help try and find them please?
Luke Pitt b in Wiltshire about 1828
On the 1841 he is with his mum in Chiswick
On the 1871 he is with his mum in Hammersmith
On the 1881 he is with his mum again in Hammersmith
He appears unmarried on all of these.
I can't locate him on the 1851, 1861 or 1891 censuses.
I have found a death record on FreeBMD for a Luke Pitt in 1899 Fulham registration district, the age of 73 looks right, so he must be somewhere. :-\
Shelah Pitt b in Wiltshire about 1824
On the 1841 he is with his mum in Chiswick
On the 1851 he may be in prison (the age is not consistent, for it says aged 16 years old, it is also transcribed as Pett and not Pitt, but Shelah's dad was transported in 1841 so it could run in the family!)
On the 1861 he is with his wife in Hammersmith (transcribed as Petty)
On the 1881 he is with his wife in Middlesex
I can not locate him on the 1871 census.
I am especially interested to see what is stated as their birthplaces on the censuses.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=288435.0
Any help greatly appreciated
Ewan
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Morning Ewan,
You've not had much luck with this thread have you 8)
Are you still looking for both of them.
Going to get a coffee now but will be back to start plodding through for you soon.
Carol :-*
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You're not going to believe this but our rellies were neighbours ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
In 1881 your Pitt family were at 17 Melina Road and mine at number 12.
That was my great great Grandma Sarah Rogers and her grandaughter Annie.
But I still haven't found yours in 1871 ...sorry!
Carol
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Hello Carol, No I have had no luck with this one so far. I think they have been miserably transcribed as something else.
Grab yourself a coffee then, refresh those parts 8)
Can you guess who this lot is related to?
Thanks
Ewan
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It's gotta be them bl**dy Lewis's?
:-*
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IN 1861 they appear with 3 year old Eliza and Shelah's(Shiloh?) sister Elizabeth who is 'dittoed' as Pitt but listed as married.
Have you found her and her kids in 71?
Carol
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Well blimey reilly 8) 8) 8)
Yes that's right Melina Road Hammersmith, well that is really spooky .........
Well the Shelah who lived there I am also currently trying to track down his dad who was deported to Tasmania in 1841 and then in 1851 went to Melbourne, just liked to know what become of him.
What a small world a?
Ewan
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Make up your mind gal ......... first you are swearing at me and then you are blowing a kiss :-\ Yes correct those bl..dy Lewises.
Where's my other mate Liz?
No I haven't found her and her kids in 1871 perhaps Shelah's with her.
His mum Ann was Ann Toy on the 1871 living in Hammersmith with her children - Fanny Pitt, Luke pitt and Aldfred Pitt
Ewan
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I suppose if you're desperate you could always buy Ada Pitt's birth cert and see what the address was.
Ada Pitt born Kensington Sept 1870 ref 1a page 187.
Mum must have been around for that ;D
Carol
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If I do get desperate that is what I could do, don't think this one is so desperate though. I'll wait and see what turns up ...... if anything.
Ewan :)
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Hi !! Its me!
Not much success on this one yet, only one finding whichI think only muddys the waters (Oh no, I can hear you all sigh)
There are two Ada Pitts around born in 1870 ish
1871
RG10 264 31 59
54 Outram? Street Islington
Joseph 35 Washerwoman (well, thats what it looks like) bn Clerkenwell
Sarah wife 35 bn Lurgershall Wiltshire
Sarah 2 bn Islington
Ada 1 bn Islington
I did wonder for a mo if the enumerator got very muddled and jotted down Shelah bn Wiltshire, and then misread it as Sarah and enterred it up as wife, ............ who knows!
but I guess they are a red herring (I know I am good at those, but experience shows that you have to look at every lead, and just sometimes something really odd comes up trumps!)
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there is something not tying up with Shelah (crumbs, I havent even started looking at Luke yet....)
In 1861 he is 34, wife Ann 23, little girl Eliza age 3
this fits in with marriage:
1856 Kensington
Shelah Pitts also on page Ann Robinson
In 1881 he is 54, fine, but wife Annie is only 30, and children are aged 10,8, and 1. So this must be a different wife! Well, I suppose the age could be wrong and she is really 43 and baby Harriett was one of those little late surprises.
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Both Ann's are born Hammersmith and there isn't a second marriage on Free BMD,so either they didn't actually marry or she IS the first wife but with the age down incorrectly.
Once they'd moved up from Wilts ,they never moved far from Hammersmith,so they ought to be around somewhere,but sadly they're not :(
Carol
PS I think that her age actually says 38-whaddya think Liz?
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You're right, Carol, 38 it is!
So she's only lost about 4 years (what is her secret...!)
OK - only one wife
But still cant find him, and I must go now. Looked for Luke too, but no luck. Is the 1871 finding for him one that says born Hammersmith, with a brother ALfred and Mum with a surnam thatis irreadable? or have I not found the right one?
Oooh Ewan - you do get 'em dont you?
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Mum with a surnam that is irreadable? or have I not found the right one?
Oooh Ewan - you do get 'em dont you?
Mum is Ann Toy married to Thomas.
I almost know more about Ewan's tree than I do my own 8)
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how many of these Pitts are there?
That one in 1871 was the one I was looking at. So Mum is Ann Toy.
That Luke gives his p-o-b as Hammersmith.
He has brother Alfred age 35 and sister Fanny age 40
Anyway, I have just found these in 1861, you may already have them:
RG9 26 2 18
Plantation Place Hammersmith
At number 4 we have:
Martha Lay widow
Louisa Lay 8
Emily Lay 6
George Lay 4
Fanny Pitt sister 30
Louisa Pitt dtr 11 all bn Hammersmith
and at Number 9 we have:
Thomas Toy 49
Ann Toy 54
Ann Pitt dtr-in-law 18
Abel Pitt son-in-law 36
SO - looks like Martha was also a Pitt before she married Lay. Looks like the Fanny that is with Luke in 1871 is here with sister Martha in 1861. And looks like there is an Ann and an Abel around too, presumably actually step children.
But no Luke there in 1861 with them.
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Liz,
See also http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=288435.0
He has a lot of the family in various censuses already ;)
Carol
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Just read it - see my name taken in vain!!!!
Also just found the family myself in 1851 and see there are several more around - Nathaniel etc that I hadnt seen before.
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Hello again
That is strange the fact that it has Elizabeth as the sister of Shelah Pitt on the 1861 census. According to deportation documents of Shelah's dad he had 7 children, and there are 7 children listed on the 1841 - Able, Shelah, Luke, Fanny, Martha, Nathaniel and Alfred. Finding Elizabeth is a new one to me, must check the documents again. I have had a quick scout around for her on other censuses but I can't seem to find her. Must make a mental note to try and find her ;)
Thanks for all your help.
Ewan
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Ewan,
Could she be sister in law,although most of the boys didn't seem to marry did they?
Or his wife's sister of course.
Carol
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Hello Carol, having a good day?
Elizabeth could be Shelah's wife's sister but she has the name of Pitt, unless the enumerator got carried away with his dittos!
IN 1861 they appear with 3 year old Eliza and Shelah's(Shiloh?) sister Elizabeth who is 'dittoed' as Pitt but listed as married.
With this one I am trying to establish when the family of Pitts moved from Wiltshire to Middlesex. I have Shelah as being baptised in 1824 in Wiltshire, so they were there then. That is why I would like to find more censuses with Luke on to confirm his birthplace. On the 1871 it says Middlesex, on the 1881 is says Wiltshire, but the enumerator could have just put down Wiltshire the same as his mum. I suppose a search for Elizabeth Hughes who they are lodging with in 1881 might turn up something.
Just noticed there is a William Rogers aged 56 lodging with them is he yours?
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Just noticed there is a William Rogers aged 56 lodging with them is he yours?
No he's not one of mine........I did look ;D
All my older Rogers came from Ashford Kent. Although they don't appear in any baptism records there ....DOH
Carol
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Luke Pitt
On the 1851 I have just found a 'Sef Pet' born 1830 Charlton living at Nettleton Wiltshire as a lodger, also lodging is a Joseph Hughes also born in Charlton 1832. On the image it is definitely 'Sef' could the enumerator heard wrongly instead of Luke :-\
Also on the same page there is a Henry Lewis lodging along with his brother in law Richard Hatton. Now ....... you are probably wondering what has all this got to do with the price of a loaf of bread etc, but that Henry Lewis is the uncle of a Luke Pitt, mum Ann Pitt/Toy's younger brother.
Also, on the 1881 Luke and his mum Ann Toy are lodging in Hammersmith with an Elizabeth Hughes aged 64 born in Hammersmith.
There is also a Martha Davis Hughes that married (in 1809) Henry Lewises grandfather's brother. Can't begin to think what she would be called to him or Luke Pitt.
Am I barking up the wrong tree, or could this be Luke in 1851?
Ewan
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Am I barking up the wrong tree, or could this be Luke in 1851?
Ewan
Ewan
Sometimes you're like a dog with a bone,and now you're like one with a tree ;D
Wait till Liz and I are back on form tomorrow and we'll let you know if you're 'up' the wrong tree ;)
Carol
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Hi Carol - I just popped in and it looks like you did too!
I was just thinking that it certainly looks like this Sef Pet guy is really a Pitt - from the number of connections Ewan has found. But Luke n Sef being muddled? well, anything's possible. Sef sounds like a mishearing of Seth (another biblical name for you) and I was just looking to see if there is a Seth Pitt anywhere around. No luck in 1861.
Will keep looking though!(Interestrng to hear how these Pitts/toys etc link in with the Lewis's of Maria fame, we always wondered if she had originated from Wiltshire.)
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1841
HO107 1181 7
Pink Lane Charlton
Samuel Pitt 50 ag lab
Rebekah Pitt 50
Jesse Pitt 13
Seth Pitt 11
? Pitt (male) 9 (transcribed Selous)
all except Rebekah born in county
However, Index says Seth born Wiltshire - where did they get that from???
Anyway, I reckon this is the Sef pet you found in 1851, Ewan.
I would be pretty sure he is related somewhere, but he is not Luke
modified - sorry, a bit slow today, they are in a Charlton a village in Wiltshire, not Charlton in London!!!
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there are 7 children listed on the 1841 - Able, Shelah, Luke, Fanny, Martha, Nathaniel and Alfred.
Have I got my k's in a t, or are there not more children in 1851? On my very scribbled on scrap of paper I have a note of 1851 having Abel 27, Fanny 21, Martha 19, Nathaniel 17, Alfred 15, Ann 8 JAmes 6 and Louisa 1 (Maybe HO107 1699 533 38, that number is amongst the jottings)
Hold on - didnt you say that ANn's first husband, Shelah, was transported in 1841? So where it says in this 1851 entry that Abel, Fanny and Martha are "Lodgers children", but that Nathaniel alfred, Ann JAmes and Louisa are just sons and daughters (head of h/h is a James Shepherd, Ann described as lodger) does that imply that ACTUALLY Ann was a little more that what we would describe as a lodger, and that the younger children are Mr Shepherd's?
In fact, this census indicates that Nathaniel downwards are Mr S's, so ANn had finished with Shelah a few years before he was deported and therfore to make up the number of Shelah's offspring to 7 there would be some others....
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You have got your drawers in a bit of a twist Liz, but that is hardly surprising with my lot is it?
Ann's first husband was called Daniel and he was a very naughty man when he stole an 'orse from a Mr Wetmacott in Wiltshire during 1841. Shelah is their second eldest son as far as I know.
That is a bit of a b.m is it not? finding a Seth Pitt on the 1841 like that, good on you Liz for finding it as it does eliminate him from the equation, but it takes me back to looking for Luke Pitt again. I don't know everything tied in nicely then.
Ewan
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Sorry - but the principal is the same, just that I got the name wrong (Daniel not Shelah for the dad, I havent quite got your tree at my fingertips like Carol has!!!!!!).
But still looks like children from Nathaniel downwards are Mr Shepherds....
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Out of interest, I am looking at these Pitts too, Harriet Luvy Pitt married George Henry Flowers.
George amonst others is father of Hilda Rose & Joan Kathleen. These two girls have married two brothers - Robert & Ronald Wright. R & R are my wife's uncles, so that's why I'm interested.
Your thread seems to be following what I've been looking at
Did Ann the wife of Daniel Pitt then marry Thomas Toy?
I have Shelah Pitt as the father on Harriet Pitt 28/9/1879, with Ann Robinson as mother. Father is a Hawker Living at 1 Henrietta Place Hammersmith.
I also have copy marriage of Nathaniel Pitt age 21 of Wood St, Chiswick (father Daniel Pitt, labourer deceased) to Elizabeth Cotton age 20 of Bennett St Chiswick, fatgher John Cotton (labourer deceased) witnesses Richard Deade & Martha.
Also marraige cert Shelah Pitt to Ann Robinson 25/11/21856 at St Stephens, Hammersmith. Shelah is Fishmonger. Both living at 4 Plantation Place. Father David Pitt, Labourer & James Robinson Coachman - both deceased. Witnesses George Lay & Fanny Pitt
Also marriage of Thomas Toy 14/2/1858 to Ann Pitt, widow. Thomas also widower. Living at Kensal Rd. Fathers Joseph Toy & Henry Lewis, both Labourers. Witneeses George Smith & Hannah Smith X her mark.
also marriage of George Lay to Martha Pitt of 6 Plantation Place. fathers John Lay, gardener & Daniel Pitt deceased, witnesses John Lay & Frances Lay X her mark
I hope this information is useful.
Roger
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Roger( or should I call you Daisy ;))
I'm sure Ewan will be over the moon when he hears he has an ally.
Liz and I have been helping him with his Chiswick/Wiltshire Lewis's for ages.
I hope he comes back online soon to hear the good news.
All the best
Carol
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Thanks Carol.
I notice too that Richard Deade (the witness) lived couple doors away in Wood St, Chiswick 1851 (father Lawyer)
Also Cottons lived next door in 1841 (nathaniel & Elizabeth)
Fascinating trail to these.
I had a red herring, family legend says Archie Pitt was related (married Gracie Fields the singer nee Stansfield but als not so)
I am also interested in ROGERS lines. My mum was one, sister in law has one and other cousins too - three Rogers lines!
Whereabouts are yours from?
Roger
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Roger
I won't clutter up Ewan's thread with my Ancestry,so I'll send you a PM
Carol ;)
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Although I am no expert on this, I don't think that the younger children on the 1851 showing an Ann Pitt are the children of James Shepherd. Ann is later living with her mum and step dad, Mr Toy, James is in the Navy, so can't clarify him and Louise is the daughter of Martha Pitt, shown on the 1861 with Martha and her sister Fanny.
Roger, your information is very interesting and it is funny I know Wood Street and Bennett Street from when I was younger. I will pm you later.
Ewan