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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: piestains on Monday 25 February 08 21:35 GMT (UK)

Title: Father's name on marriage cert. But is he illegimate?
Post by: piestains on Monday 25 February 08 21:35 GMT (UK)
Having some trouble going back further than my x3 great grandfather William Dallimore   :-\ :-\

I've found him on all the census',

I have his mothers first name year and place of birth (elizabeth, 1822, Shepton Mallet)

I have his marriage certificate - father same first and last name as him (William Dallimore) but doesnt say whether he's deceased or not and he was not witness to it either.

I have his birth certificate (born in Frome Workhouse) - mother's surname the same as his (Elizabeth Dallimore)

But it gets a little confusing -

on the first census his mothers surname is another and she's noted as being single !? Elizabeth Culverwell??

Next census he's living with his uncle (John Dallimore) - but his uncle is married in the 1841 census so I cant find his what could be grandparents.

Now, was he illegimate, and his mother and uncle are bro' and sis' or is his marriage cert is true and the first census with his mother as single with a different surname is incorrect?

I have found a possible marriage of his father marrying just before he was born but it was not to his mother?!

His mother married/remarried a few years after he was born  - she was Dallimore on that record!

Am I missing something or are you lot just as confused as I am? :-\

Is there something else I should be trying
Any suggestions greatly appreciated  ;D
Title: Re: Father's name on marriage cert. But is he illegimate?
Post by: CaroleW on Monday 25 February 08 23:30 GMT (UK)
Hi

It was not unknown for illegitimate children to make up fathers names on their marriage certs for "respectability" purposes

Quote
on the first census
   
Quote
Next census


Could you give us details of which censuses you are referring to in the info in your post. 

Quote
I have his birth certificate (born in Frome Workhouse

When was he born?

Quote
His mother married/remarried a few years after he was born  - she was Dallimore on that record!

What year did his mother marry and to whom?

If she married as Dallimore - does her marriage cert show her as a widow or as a spinster?

If a widow - what was her fathers name on the marriage cert
Title: Re: Father's name on marriage cert. But is he illegimate?
Post by: piestains on Tuesday 26 February 08 00:44 GMT (UK)
His marriage certificate has his fathers occupation as a cordwainer so I sort of thought maybe it was legitimate but I suppose he could have lied

He was born 1844 Shepton.  The 1851 census shows him  as William Dallimore, his mother Elizabeth Culverwell.  They were lodgers with an elderly couple also 'Culverwell' but I havent been able to find the connection to them

1861 census shows him living with his aunt and cousins (Dallimore)

Thats it!!!!  I dont have Elizabeth other marriage certificate!    ;D   ;D   ;D

Thanks Carole - I knew I was missing something.  Must have been going around with blinkers on for all these months

She married a John Brown in 1856 (i think)  will have to double check on that tho'. 

Yay.  I have a next port of call,  thanks Carole   8)
Title: Re: Father's name on marriage cert. But is he illegimate?
Post by: CaroleW on Tuesday 26 February 08 01:07 GMT (UK)
Hi

The 1851 shows Elizabeth as unmarried

The 1841 has an Elizabeth Dallimore in the Frome Union Workhouse.  She is shown as 15 but ages were rounded down on the 1841 to the nearest 5 years so she could have been up to 19yrs old
Title: Re: Father's name on marriage cert. But is he illegimate?
Post by: LizzieW on Wednesday 27 February 08 13:40 GMT (UK)
My g.g.grandfather has his father's name on his marriage certificate and he was illegitimate and kept his mother's maiden name as his surname. 

Lizzie
Title: Re: Father's name on marriage cert. But is he illegimate?
Post by: avm228 on Wednesday 27 February 08 13:58 GMT (UK)

1861 census shows him living with his aunt and cousins (Dallimore)


If you know who his aunt was then this should provide some clues regarding his parents.  I don't see this entry - do you have the full reference?

Anna
Title: Re: Father's name on marriage cert. But is he illegimate?
Post by: daniel tay on Thursday 26 May 16 10:01 BST (UK)
I Think their is a link to culverwell are you sure it should not be culverhouse. Regards Dan Tay 
Title: Re: Father's name on marriage cert. But is he illegimate?
Post by: Raybistre on Friday 27 May 16 21:05 BST (UK)
On the 1851 census there is no stated relationship between Elizabeth Culverwell and William Dalimore.
Both are listed as lodger. Possible that Elizabeth was listed under the wrong surname and should be Dalimore.

What are his parents names on his birth certificate?

Ray
Title: Re: Father's name on marriage cert. But is he illegimate?
Post by: daniel tay on Friday 27 May 16 22:55 BST (UK)
Hi Ray,
Possibly no link, but I have this Alfred Watts (1856) married a Rhoda  Culverhouse 1858 - 1922 they had I believe four Children Hurbert Watts 1884-1954 Edith Mary Watts 1866- ? And finally Anne Maria Watts 1866 - 1873, and  Rosina Watts 1877 - 1929. Now married Arthur William Dallimore 1880 -1962. Arthur was the son of Job Dallimore and Mary Anne Dallimore.  Mine are from Bradford on Avon - Winsley. Job was from Thomas and Elizabeth Dallimore.
I hope this might help?
Regards Dan Tay
Title: Re: Father's name on marriage cert. But is he illegimate?
Post by: trish1120 on Saturday 28 May 16 15:43 BST (UK)
I agree Elizabeth surname is likely incorrect in 1851 Census

Having trouble find William 1861 with Uncle and Family.
EDIT, sorry AUNT

Can you provide spelling and pob this Dallimore Aunt please?

1851 William is DALIMORE, 1 L, born c 1844 Shepton Mallet.

1881 Wales Census has William H Dallimore, born c 1844,  Shepton Mallet, Somerset,
living in  Bedwelty, Monmouthshire, Wales
With him and Family is Elizabeth BROWN, Mother, Widow

Title: Re: Father's name on marriage cert. But is he illegimate?
Post by: trish1120 on Saturday 28 May 16 16:21 BST (UK)
MARRIAGE;
05 Oct 1856, St John the Baptist, Frome
John BROWN,age 53, Widower, Labourer, abode Church St, Father JAMES, Occp Labourer
Elizabeth DALLIMORE, age 36, Worker at Factory, abode Church St, Father JOHN, Occp Work Sorter
Witnesses, James King, Jane Beacham

Work Sorter may be Wool Sorter

Possible Baptism;
ELIZABETH Dallimore, 1 July 1820, St Peter and Paul, Shepton Mallet (Birth 5 March 1820)
Parents JOHN/URSULA
Fathers Occp Wool Sorter**
Abode New Street

JOHN Dallimore Married Ursula RICHMOND, 31 Oct 1802 same Church.
Bachelor/Spnster

URSULA was Buried 24 March 1841 age 64, abode New Street
JOHN was Buried 17 Jun 1832 age 57, abode New Street
So neither appear 1841 Census

Title: Re: Father's name on marriage cert. But is he illegimate?
Post by: trish1120 on Saturday 28 May 16 17:08 BST (UK)
OK, figured it out;

1861 Census
Tredegar, Monmouthshire,Wales
Elizabeth Dickins, 40
John Dunsmore, 19
Arsalia Dunsmore, 16
Thomas Dunsmore, 14
William Dunsmore, 11
Joseph Dickins, 7
Sarah Dickins, 4
WILLIAM Dunsmore, 17, Nephew, born Shepton Mallet*****

JOHN Dallimore was Baptised 21 Jan 1815 to JOHN/URSULA (FreeREG)

Married Elizabeth JACOBS 1839 (FreeBMD)

He was Buried 21 April 1852 age 37 (FreeREG)

Elizabeth married Joseph DICKENS 1853 (FreeBMD)
He died 1858 (Joseph DICKINS,Reg Abergavenney)

She remarried to Thomas BATES 1863, Reg Bedwelty.

So looks to me that William was the illeg Son of Elizabeth.
He lied on his M/C as to his Fathers name/occp

So Elizabeth Parents were John/Ursula, John 1815 was her Brother and therefore his Wife Elizabeth nee Jacobs was the Aunt by Marriage to Willam.

To tie it up John/Elizabeth nee Jacobs name a Daug Ursula 1844, Johns Occp Basket Maker (FreeREG)

Cheers,
Trish :)
Title: Re: Father's name on marriage cert. But is he illegimate?
Post by: josey on Saturday 28 May 16 17:27 BST (UK)
Well done, Trish.... ;)

1861 ref; RG9; Piece: 3999; Folio: 5; Page: 4; and FWIW I think the name the enumerator has written is DUNIMORE not DUNSMORE, probably misread the DAL[L]IMORE written by member of the household.
Title: Re: Father's name on marriage cert. But is he illegimate?
Post by: trish1120 on Sunday 29 May 16 13:20 BST (UK)
Allthough the original post was old it may help someone else in the future :)
Title: Re: Father's name on marriage cert. But is he illegimate?
Post by: josey on Sunday 29 May 16 13:27 BST (UK)
I agree - new eyes are always useful & you never know when someone will make a search for one of the names  :)