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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Suziesmith37 on Friday 22 February 08 18:03 GMT (UK)
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Hiya
Researching my Great Grandad William Henry Thomas.
Died Louvain Belgium - 28th July 1916. No known grave.
Can anyone tell me if Louvain was under German occupation at that time?
I have looked at the WW1 campaign maps around that time and Louvain seems to be placed well behind the front line? (Not an expert - but appears that way)
Any help greatly appreciated.
Su
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Hi Su !
Can you tell us more about your William Henry ??
Do you have his death from CWGC ? ..... or did you get it from somewhere else ?
Do you have his service number at all ?? .... as you well know there are quite a few Thomas' !! ;D
Annie :)
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I have often wondered why 2 individuals in my family tree (female) have Louvain as a middle name!
Bill
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Hiya all
Some more details
SPTS/3143 William Henry Thomas (known as Harry)
'C' Coy 24th Bn Royal Fusiliers 2nd Sportsmans
Enlisted Redruth. DOB unknown but 23 when he died. Chasing a few leads here and awaiting certs,
We have no documents that give where he died all we know is Great Gran called Gran Louvain and someone informed her? We have a date of death as 28.07.1916, but on recently applying for a death cert (last week) were told it cant be traced?!? ???
If there are any details that I can give you please ask.
Thanks Su
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I thought this maybe of interest ! but it's still not answering your question properly I'm afraid ::)
It was in 1914 !! ....... :-\
http://www.firstworldwar.com/battles/louvain.htm
Annie :)
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To Bill 749
My Grandmother called Eilleen Louvain too! Unfortuantely G Grandad never got to see her - lovely lady.
Su
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Thanks Annie
Everything of use and indeed the Sacking of Louvain was a horrible part of WW1.
Appreciate all donations ;)
Su
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You probably have all this but just in case ! :)
Medal card of Thomas William H
Royal Fusiliers 3143
Private
Royal Fusiliers Spts/3143
Private
Date
1914-1920
http://www.rootschat.com/links/02s1/
THOMAS, WILLIAM HENRY
Rank - Private
Regiment/Service - Royal Fusiliers
Unit Text - "C" Coy. 24th Bn.
Age - 23
Date of Death - 28/07/1916
Service No - SPTS/3143
Additional information
Son of Mrs. C. Truman, of Barry's Lane, Padstow Cornwall husband of Ethel Thomas of 9 Hyr Bellevue Redruth Cornwall.
Casualty Type - Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference - Pier and Face 8 C 9 A and 16 A.
Memorial - THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
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Hi Annie Thank you again
A little tale - vivited the CGWC site last month and found the record. Um'd and ah'd about finding £3.50 for the medal card - decided in the end anything has to be a step forward.
Got and downloaded. Pleased to have something but dissappointed with info on it.
Sent a copy to my Auntie Anne(see a good name!) who sent a copy to My Uncle in Australia.
He then emailed her back as it reminded that he had the actual medals in his possession. - So now we all have a photo of them!
Thank you for helping (the info displayed will be of use to others looking in.)
Su
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hi all
have you seen this -
http://ww1cemeteries.com/In%20memory/In%20Memory%20Ext/roll_of_honour28.htm
ev
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Hi Ev
Yes iI have, but bless you and thank you for trying.
Have to admit eyes get a bit teary each time I see it.
Had the honour of visiting the Memorial at Thiepval last year - so many names and each with its own story.
Spoke briefly to a lovely gentleman there and he came to see three brothers!
Are there any WW1 map experts out there who knew what the British Army were doing in Louvain at that date?
Cheers Su
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Can I ask a question ? ::) ..... why do you think your William Henry died in Louvain Belgium ?
The Battle of the Somme was fought in Picardy France ..... and as he is remembered on the Thiepval Memorial and the date of his death .... I would assume he died there ..... !
Annie :)
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Np Annie ask away.
The Theipval Monument is for people who died in WW1 but there are no known graves for them.
It is a terrific reminder of the losses.
On an optimistic note, whilst we were visiting we noticed that some of thenames had been erased - due to the remains being found and at last laid to rest in a proper grave.
All I know re: Louvain is that my Great Grandmother Ethel was told that he had died there.
Finding written records is a tad more difficult, but I have other threads of British soldiers who had died and were buried there around that time - so something was going on!
Su
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24th Battalion (2nd Sportsmans)
Raised in London by E. Cunliffe-Owen on 20.11.14. To Clipstone Camp June 1915, as part of 99th Brigade, 33rd Division. Taken over by War Office on 1.7.15. To Kandahar Barracks, Tidworth, August 1915. Landed at Boulogne 17.11.15. Moved with 99th Brigade to 2nd Division on 25.11.15. To 5th Brigade, 2nd Division on 13.12.15. On 11.11.18 located north of Le Quesnoy, France.
http://www.1914-1918.net/royalfus.htm
If you scroll down to the 24th Battalion and follow the links ......you'll come to this .......
http://www.1914-1918.net/2div.htm
This will show you all the battles the 24th Battalion were engaged in ! check them out and see what you can find !
Annie :)
The Thiepval Memorial - the Memorial to the Missing of the Somme bears the names of more than 72,000 officers and men of the United Kingdom and South African forces who died in the Somme sector before 20 March 1918 and have no known grave. Over 90% of those commemorated died between July and November 1916.
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Thanks again Annie
Families are such a mystery!
Btw who is the little darlin in the photo?
Su
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Sometimes family stories are right ... and sometimes ... not quite !! ::) ::) ::)
That's my son when he was a cheeky chappie !! !!
Annie :)
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All the more fun to solve the mystery :)
Very cheeky!
Thanks again
Su
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hi all
from westlakes "battalions of the somme"
http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=92071&hl=24th+royal+fusiliers
one of the replies notes that they were at trones wood on 28th july
although he may have been wounded earlier and died on that day
ev
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Hi Ev
This is very interesting; trying to find new info is quite hard.
This also gives me a couple of avenues to chase - so thank you.
Su
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His SDGW entry for you Su:
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Thank you Atom12
I was given snippets of this info, but nice to have it in it's entirety!
The knowledge shared here is very generous.
Su
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Hi Su,
I just wanted to add that my middle name is Louaine. I was named partly after Louvain and my grandmother Louisa, she died the day I was born in 1944. My father was in the RAF and stationed in Louvain at this time. He told me that Louvain was badly bombed in the second world war, he stayed there until 1946 to help them clear up. Good luck with your research.
Sheila.
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Hi Louaine
What a beautiful combination to create a name!
It is great that people live on in this way.
Your father will have certainly left his touch on Louvain and it will be remembered as a good one.
Take care Su
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For some reason I could not find this post earlier today (numpty!)
So I posted a second on the Armed Forces General Bit as Louvain 1916 Pt II
Apologies for any inconvenience :)
Su
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I Su .... I found this ....
Your soldier was in the area of Trones Wood on the 28th July 1916 - the entry in the war diary of 'C' Coy 24th Bn Royal Fusiliers 2nd Sportsmans says ...............
"28th July Trones Wood - Relieved the 17th Bn Royal Fusiliers B company in the wood - the remainder of the battalion in LONGUEVAL ALLEY. Very hot day .... several casualties "
*Looking at some of the entries for the day previous and the day after - it looks like the casualties were caused by shell fire ......... the area they were in - was close to Delville Wood
I think thats what Ev said isn't it ??
Annie :)
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Thank you again Annie!
With all this information the pieces have come together for me now - what these poor souls had to go through!
With the gen and informed comments I think I have a pretty good visual of Harry's last days.
Thanks all
Su
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hi all :)
as atom 12 says KIA 28/07/1916
if this is correct then it would seem to narrow it down
from reading accounts of delville wood this was one of the most intense
actions of ww1
men defended trenches(if that) standing on the dead bodies of those that
went before :(
the germans lost as many men as the british
if i'm right in thinking it got called devil wood
ev
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Hi Ev
It certainly is making things clearer, I've read some eye witness accounts from around that time too.
I set out to understand and the picture is clearer, I knew from the outset that the 'Somme' was the worst point of WW1, but some of the stories - well it is just very difficult to put yourself in their place. Brave - just very brave.
Su
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hi su
the somme was just one of the worst points :(
but it wasn't all bad , two of the cheeriest men in my family research went
though ww 1 and survived
both of them always wore a smile :)
but was it the war that made them ?
one in RAMC was at gallipoli and then france and must have been at the
sharp end yet lived to 1963
he worked for the railways but when he retired he never got his watch
because his sevice was broken by the ww 1 :(
and still he smiled :D
ev
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Ev
We have a lot to learn from these people.
One of my Grandad's brothers sayings was - I used to moan that I didn't have no shoes - until I saw a man with no feet.
Simple but thought provoking.
The word was my G Grandad Harry was a cheerful soul too and I do like to think of him giving the men a laugh right up til the last!
Su :D
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It was great to see how many of the soldiers named their children Louvain.
My own mother was named Edith Louvain on Dec 15 1914 while her father Pvt. William Lawrence was out in Louvain. Thankfully he survived the war, heavens know how, but I have often wondered what he was employed as in the war effort to have come back in one piece. Prior to his enlistment he was a crane driver, so maybe he was employed as doing something on those lines while in Belgium.
In WW2 Edith's brother was serving out in Valerie in France and continued the family trait by naming his daughter Valerie.
T/Wessie