RootsChat.Com

England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Devon => England => Devon Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Bill749 on Wednesday 20 February 08 15:37 GMT (UK)

Title: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: Bill749 on Wednesday 20 February 08 15:37 GMT (UK)
I'm looking for information on my (probable) gt. gt. grandma, born in Exeter in about 1835.

Does anybody have access to baptisms for the area please?  Or maybe the census (1841/51)?

I'm pretty certain she married my gt. gt. grandfather, Thomas SNELL, at St Saviour, Southwark, in 1856 - they had their first 2 children: Alice Maria (gt. grandma); and Thomas, at St Olave, Southwark, in 1858.

I'm wondering if her father, like Thomas, may have been a mariner.

TIA

Bill
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 20 February 08 15:52 GMT (UK)
Hi

on IGI we have this christening (extracted)

Mary Ann LEARY, St Sidwell , Exeter... 4 May 1834
parents; Henry Leary and Mary

will look further
deb  :)
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 20 February 08 16:12 GMT (UK)
Hi again

the only Mary A on 1851, b 1834/5 in St Sidwell, Exeter is a mary A Leavy , servant ... possible mistranscription.

siblings of Mary A Leary d/o Henry and Mary are also on IGI;

James LEARY ... 24 feb 1833
samuel LEARY ... 17 April 1836 St Stephens

deb

Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 20 February 08 16:21 GMT (UK)
Hi Bill

found them in 1841 under LENRY

Kings Alley
St Stephens, Exeter

Henry Leary 35 OSTLER Y
Mary Leary 30 Y
Mary Ann leary 7 Y
Samuel Leary 5 Y
Harriet Leary 1 Y

No James ... maybe died?

deb
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 20 February 08 16:22 GMT (UK)
IGI , Extracted

marriage:
Henry LEARY = Mary POLLARD
3 Oct 1831
St Paul, Exeter

deb  ;D
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 20 February 08 16:39 GMT (UK)
I think Henry Leary may have died ... June q 1845, Exeter as I cannot find him in 1851.

There is a marriage of a Mary Leary to a Joseph Holloway in sept 1847, Exeter ...I tried to find this couple in 1851 and the only oneI could see was a Mary Hollowsy b c 1798....

will look further

deb
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: Bill749 on Wednesday 20 February 08 16:48 GMT (UK)
WOW!!!!!

Thanks Deb - that is excellent stuff.

Bill
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 20 February 08 16:55 GMT (UK)
Hi Bill ;D

Still cannot see them in 1851... Harriot Leary was reg in Exeter ...but cannot find her or her brothers and mother  :-\

some more IGI for you: extracted

chr: Henry LEARY
30 Sept 1804, St Sidwell, Exeter
Parents ... John Leary and Ann


a Possible for Mary POLLARD ..
28 Feb 1808 St Paul  ( which is where they married)
parents; Ezekiel Pollard and Wilhelmina

deb
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: Bill749 on Wednesday 20 February 08 17:01 GMT (UK)
Hi Deb

Have found "Harriot" on freebmd, along with a William who was born and died in Dec 1837.

There is also a Louisa in Jun 1839 and Sarah in Sep 1839 - can't be the same family!

Bill
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: Bill749 on Wednesday 20 February 08 17:02 GMT (UK)
They may have moved to Southwark by 1851?

Bill
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 20 February 08 17:03 GMT (UK)
 ;D

Ezekiel POLLARD = Whilelmina SPICER
26 Jan 1807
St Mary Major

Ezekiel POLLARD
birth: 23 Sept 1787 St David , Exeter
parents; Ezekiel Pollard and Elizabeth

Ezekiel POLLARD = Elizabeth SPICER SAILSBURY
24 Sept 1780 St Paul , Exeter

deb
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 20 February 08 17:09 GMT (UK)
Hi again Bill

Have found some siblings for your Henry Leary (1804) = Mary Pollard

IGI extracted:

Daniel Leary 15 Feb 1801
John Leary 7 april 1799
Samuel Leary 20 apr 1803
Samuel Leary 21 Dec 1809
James Leary 21 Dec 1809 ... possibly twin to Samuel

cannot find the marriage of parents ..yet!

deb
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: Bill749 on Wednesday 20 February 08 17:15 GMT (UK)
 ;D ;D ;D
Looks like Ezekiel and Wilhelmina (what names!) were probably cousins.

Bill
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 20 February 08 17:18 GMT (UK)
eeekkkk MY Mistake ....  :-[ :-[

Ezekiel POLLARD = Elizabeth SAILSBURY NOT SPICER ... Thats what happens when everything is scribbled down ...sorry  :P

deb  ;D
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: Bill749 on Wednesday 20 February 08 17:44 GMT (UK)
Easily done, Deb

BTW,

SAILSBURY

That is SAILSBURY and not SALISBURY?  I've not come across that name before.

Bill   ;D
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: Bill749 on Wednesday 20 February 08 17:51 GMT (UK)
Looks like it is not so uncommon - just found loads of 'em on Freebmd!

 :-[
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 20 February 08 18:09 GMT (UK)
Hi Bill

yep ..I also looked at her surname twice ... definitely is Sailsbury on IGI.  It seems like they spell it the way you would say Salisbury ...

Have to pop out will be back soon ... will keep looking for them in 1851. Also can you give me the References for Mary Ann Snell nee Leary

deb  :)
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: Bill749 on Wednesday 20 February 08 18:49 GMT (UK)
If, and I'm pretty sure it is, this is the right Mary Ann, she married Thomas SNELL at St Saviour, Southwark, in the June qtr of 1856 (1d 17) - I will probably have to obtain the marriage certificate to confirm it.

They had a total of 7 children in the East End of London between 1858 and abt 1877 - my gt. grandmother, Alice Maria, seems to have been the eldest (along with a possible twin brother).

Bill
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 20 February 08 20:30 GMT (UK)
Hi Bill

Found Harriett LEARY in 1861

9 High St, St James , Clerkenwell
Harriett leary single 21 general servant b Exeter , In the home of Joseph Debnam a hosier.

So she must be somewhere in 1851 with her mum ...eekkk why can't I find them ... will keep searching!

deb  :)
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 20 February 08 20:43 GMT (UK)
Hi again Bill

Have found some siblings for your Henry Leary (1804) = Mary Pollard

IGI extracted:

Daniel Leary 15 Feb 1801
John Leary 7 april 1799
Samuel Leary 20 apr 1803
Samuel Leary 21 Dec 1809
James Leary 21 Dec 1809 ... possibly twin to Samuel

cannot find the marriage of parents ..yet!

deb

Hi again

Found the above Samuel Leary in 1861

4 Collins Place , St James Clerkenwell
samuel LEARY head mar 51 compositor b Exeter
Mary wife 37 b Exeter
Hannah dau  unm 28 housemaid b exeter
William son 17 light porter
Ellen 12
Alfred 11
Frank 9
Agnes 1
Emily


I also found a James LEARY , b 1836 Exeter, living with his wife , Sophia (25) at 27 Holloway St, Trinity , Exeter. he is a shop porter.

Now , your Mary Ann Snell nee Leary had a brother James b 1836 , but he was not on the 1841 census ... maybe I should check to see if he was with grandparents?

I think we really need 1851 to see if there are anymore siblings for Mary Ann ...

deb
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: Bill749 on Wednesday 20 February 08 21:39 GMT (UK)
Quote
Now , your Mary Ann Snell nee Leary had a brother James b 1836 , but he was not on the 1841 census ... maybe I should check to see if he was with grandparents?

He died shortly after birth.  :'(

I'm going to have to start a whole new chapter in the family history now - I didn't know anything about the Leary family a couple of hours ago, until I went looking at Freebmd and did a quick process of elimination on the possible marriages for Thomas SNELL!

ed. OOPS!  That was Alice Maria's brother James - next generation!

Bill
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: Bill749 on Wednesday 20 February 08 21:50 GMT (UK)
Quote
William son 17 light porter
Ellen 12
Alfred 11
Frank 9
Agnes 1
Emily

I'm guessing these were born in Clerkenwell?  Did you see an age for Emily?

Bill
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: Bill749 on Wednesday 20 February 08 22:35 GMT (UK)
Quote
Found the above Samuel Leary in 1861

4 Collins Place , St James Clerkenwell
samuel LEARY head mar 51 compositor b Exeter
Mary wife 37 b Exeter
Hannah dau  unm 28 housemaid b exeter
William son 17 light porter
Ellen 12
Alfred 11
Frank 9
Agnes 1
Emily
Looks like Mary was Samuel's second wife - she couldn't be Hannah's mum!

There is an apparent marriage between Samuel LEARY and Mary Ann LEARY in Clerkenwell in March 1851 (3 81) - did he marry a cousin?  Or a sister-in-law?

There is a death in Clerkenwell of Grace LEARY in June 1848 (3 91) - was she Samuel's first wife?

Bill
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 21 February 08 14:19 GMT (UK)
Quote
William son 17 light porter
Ellen 12
Alfred 11
Frank 9
Agnes 1
Emily

I'm guessing these were born in Clerkenwell?  Did you see an age for Emily?

Bill

Hi Bill ...sorry about that ...

The children were b Middlesex and Emily was 1

I am trying to find samuel leary b c 1810 in the 1841 and 51 ... where has this family gone ?

will persevere....also I wonder who Mary Ann Leary , who married Samuel, was ...will investigate ...

deb :)
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 21 February 08 16:38 GMT (UK)
Hi again Bill

Well, I have searched and searched for both families in 1851 , with no luck. I wonder if the pages are missing ...it seems strange that we cannot find Mary Ann (= Thomas Snell) and her Leary family in 1851 AND Samuel Leary + Family in 1851....

also I am struggling to find Samuel on the 1841 ...at least we found your Mary Ann in 1841 ..under Lenry ... I will keep looking for them.


I did find this on 1871... Samuel Leary b c 1810, Exeter possible brother of Henry Leary ...your Mary Ann leary's dad ..., his family

St James Clerkenwell
44 Collier
Mary A LEARY head wid 47 formerly compositor's wife b Devon Exeter
Alfred son unm 21 printer compositor b Middlesex , St Pancras
Agnes H  dau 13 bookfolder b Clerkenwell (BMD = Agnes Hannah)
William Leary nephew 15 printer compositor b Hackney.

Re the second wife of Samuel , Mary Ann poss. Leary .... who married 1851 ... That would then make her the mother of only Frank , Agnes and Emily and  possibly Alfred.

Also If Mary Ann Leary (2nd wife of Samuel ) married in 1851 , that would have made her 27... so she could have married a Leary previously.  If her maiden name was Leary ..there is a possible IGI extracted christening for Exeter ...mary Ann Leary being the daughter of a DANIEL LEARY .... ! Samuel and henry had an elder brother DANIEL b c 1801 .... If this is her , then Samuel may have married his niece ... so I am thinking that she was most probably Mary Ann Leary nee ?? ...

I hope I am making sense


deb  :)
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 21 February 08 17:18 GMT (UK)
hi

IGI has most of Samuel and Mary Ann Leary's children christenings. They all took place (except for Emily) at Old Church, St Pancras on 14 Oct 1854...these are their birthdates:

Ellen Leary 17 may 1847
Alfred John Leary 6 may 1849
Frank James Leary 26 april 1851
Agnes Hannah Leary 3 dec 1857 ...i must have mistranscribed her age on 1861


Emily Leary chr. 10 july 1860, Pentonville , d/o Samuel Leary and Mary Ann

Still having no luck in 1841 for Samuel ... arrgghhhh

deb :)

Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 21 February 08 17:47 GMT (UK)
wooooohoooooo  :o

found them in 1841;

Islington , Finsbury
Thornhill
Samuel LEARY 30 compositor NO ..transcribed as born in county  ::)
Grace 30 No ...transcribed as GEAN
Louisa 3 Yes
Samuel 1 Yes

you were spot on with Grace as the 1st wife  ;D

deb

ps ..can't find the marriage ... :-\
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: Bill749 on Friday 22 February 08 02:22 GMT (UK)
Quote
IGI has most of Samuel and Mary Ann Leary's children christenings. They all took place (except for Emily) at Old Church, St Pancras on 14 Oct 1854...these are their birthdates:

Ellen Leary 17 may 1847

 ??? ??? ???
Ellen was born before Grace died!  Was she really the daughter of Samuel and Mary Ann, or did the vicar just assume the children all had the same mother, as they were brought for baptism at the same time?

Alfred and Frank were born before he married Mary Ann.  ::) ::)

Hannah was missing from the family in 1841 - she would have been about 8, so may have been visiting family elsewhere.

Quote
If this is her , then Samuel may have married his niece
  :o :o
I'm sure that would not have been legal!

This is really wonderful Deb - I can't thank you enough for all your efforts.

Bill
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: deb usa on Friday 22 February 08 03:08 GMT (UK)
Hi Bill

thank goodness you are here ...Okay Grace died 1848...some of the kids were born after ...but why the christenings all on the same date ,,, was something going on ?

Maybe they were all mary ann's but they could not christen them immedaitely as he was married to Grace ...

eeekkk ...it's late here ... i need to rethink ...all of the IGI christenings were extracted ...

deb

addec ..I have seena Hannah in 1841 as a vistor in Devon ...right age ...
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: deb usa on Friday 22 February 08 13:32 GMT (UK)
Hi Bill

just summarizing so that we can see it at a glance :

We have these sons ...children of John Leary and Ann

Daniel Leary 15 Feb 1801
John Leary 7 april 1799
Samuel Leary 20 apr 1803
Henry Leary 30 Sept 1804 = Mary Pollard (d/o Ezekiel Pollard and Wilhelmina Spicer)
Samuel Leary 21 Dec 1809 = 1. Grace ?? and 2 Mary Ann Leary
James Leary 21 Dec 1809 ... possibly twin to Samuel

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Henry Leary (1804) and Mary Ann Pollard had ;
Mary Ann LEARY, St Sidwell , Exeter... 4 May 1834 = your gt gt grandmother
James LEARY ... 24 feb 1833 , St Sidwell
samuel LEARY ... 17 April 1836 St Stephens
Harriot Leary bc 1840
(1841; all but James living in St stephens, no sign of them in 1851)

---------------------------------------------------------

Samuel Leary (1809) = Grace ??
they had:
(1841 census);
Hannah b c 1833 (on 1861 with family in Middlesex, 1841 possibly a visitor in Devon)
Louisa b c 1838
Samuel b c 1840
no sign of them in 1851

In 1848 Grace Leary, the mother, dies.

in mar q 1851 Samuel Leary remarries to Mary Ann Leary

by 1861 they are in Middlesex with these children:
William 17 , bc 1844  s/o Grace
Ellen 12 , bc 1849..her birthdate belows would make her Grace's daughter , but christened as d/o Mary Ann the 2nd wife  :-\
Alfred 11, b c 1850 ...Samuel and Mary Ann are not married at this stage, Grace is dead ...birthdate below shows he was born May 1849  :-\
Frank 9, bc 1852 ..He is born April 1851 (see below) , just after Sam and Mary marry
Agnes 3 b c 1858
Emily 1, b c 1860


IGI has most of Samuel and Mary Ann Leary's children christenings. They all took place (except for Emily) at Old Church, St Pancras on 14 Oct 1854...these are their birthdates:

Ellen Leary 17 may 1847
Alfred John Leary 6 may 1849
Frank James Leary 26 april 1851
Agnes Hannah Leary 3 dec 1857 ...i must have mistranscribed her age on 1861
Emily Leary chr. 10 july 1860, Pentonville , d/o Samuel Leary and Mary Ann

In 1871 , Mary Ann is a widow;
St James Clerkenwell
44 Collier
Mary A LEARY head wid 47 formerly compositor's wife b Devon Exeter
Alfred son unm 21 printer compositor b Middlesex , St Pancras
Agnes H dau 13 bookfolder b Clerkenwell (BMD = Agnes Hannah)
William Leary nephew 15 printer compositor b Hackney.


I wonder who William belongs to, ?  maybe one of Henry Leary (1809) and Mary Pollards grandchildren ... will look

deb  :)
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: Bill749 on Friday 22 February 08 14:29 GMT (UK)
HI Deb

I'm not at all worried about "bulk" christenings - they were not uncommon; my grandmother was baptised on 29th April 1885, along with 3 brothers and a sister.  I have always thought it might have been a way of saving money!

Grace died when Ellen was just one year old, so Samuel would have needed someone to look after the baby - Hannah was 15, but may not have been living at home at the time - so he would have turned to a close friend, neighbour, or family member (the latter seems likely in this case) who could move in and act as "housekeeper".

It was also not uncommon for such a "housekeeper" to quickly become rather more than just a nursemaid for the children!  In this case it seems to have happened before wife no. 1 was cold in her grave, as Alfred was born about one year after Grace's death.

There is, of course, another possibility to consider here, particularly if Mary Ann was a widow: if she were widowed during her pregnancy she, also, would have needed someone to take care of her unborn child, and it would have suited both of them to marry - allbeit illegally - as soon as possible!

The plot thickens!!

Bill
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: deb usa on Friday 22 February 08 14:31 GMT (UK)
Hi Bill ..

Wish I could find more on your Gt Gt Grandmother's direct  family ...I will keep looking ...

Further to : Samuel Leary and Mary Ann Leary's family:

1881
Finsbury, Islington
10 Denmark st
Mary A Leary head wid 57 b Exeter
Alfred J Leary unm 31 compositor b St pancras

1891
Mary A Leary is by herself , wid, 67 and living on her own means

1901
New Maldon Surrey
Rosemont
Henry Rheinlander head mar 51 photographer b Bethnal Green
AGNES wife mar 43 b St Pancras
Edam son 14 b Bansbury?
Arthur son 10 b "
Ethel dau 5  B   "
MARY A LEARY m-i-l wid 77 Living on own means b exeter

Agnes Hannah LEARY = Henry Charles RHEINLANDER
sept q 1879 St Pancras

death:
Frank James LEARY ; Dec q 1861 Clerkenwell

can't find Alfred James Leary in 1881/91 ...nor a death

deb

oops just seen your post ..will post this and read yours :)
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: Bill749 on Friday 22 February 08 14:51 GMT (UK)
Quote
Bansbury?

Probably Oxon (Oxfordshire), Banbury.

Quote
Edam

FreeBMD has:
   Edgar Alfred, Mar 1887
   Arthur Henry, Dec 1890
   Ethel Agnes, Jun 1895
All Islington

Bill
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: deb usa on Friday 22 February 08 14:53 GMT (UK)
Hey Bill ...

I think I have found the Family of James LEARY , Possible Twin of Samuel b 1809...ie; Your Henry's other younger brother ....

do you want me to do this side too ?? ;D

deb :D
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: Bill749 on Friday 22 February 08 15:06 GMT (UK)
Phew Deb!  ::)

I can hardly keep up with typing up this family!!   ???

If you are happy to keep looking I am happy to keep receiving - you never know when something interesting may turn up (not that it isn't all very interesting).  After all, we still don't know who Mary Ann (2nd wife of Samuel) was, do we?

Many, many, heart-felt thanks for your efforts.  :)

Bill
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: Bill749 on Friday 22 February 08 15:35 GMT (UK)
Gt gt grandma, Mary Ann (= Thomas SNELL) died aged 40 in Sept 1/4 1874.  Thomas later married Elizabeth Caroline SAUNDERS (nee BEER), a widow from Dover, who was my gt grandfather's aunt, and she became step-mother to Alice Maria.

Great grandad (Alfred Albert BEER) and gt grandma (Alice Maria SNELL) were step-cousins.

I only discovered this complicated relationship fairly recently, after puzzling for 20 years about how they came to meet.

Now, with your help, I have not only got her mother's maiden name, but have gone back 2 further generations on her mother's father's line and 3 on her mother's mother's line!!  8)

I now have a tree, starting from John Leary, born in the 1700s, which shows 9 generations of his descendents down to my sisters new great grandchild, born last week.  :)  (I can trace her ancestors back 16 generations on 2 lines!)

Bill
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: deb usa on Friday 22 February 08 15:37 GMT (UK)
 ;D ;D ;D
a new occupation here ....:)  re; James Leary b c 1809/10 brother of Samuel (twin?) and your Henry

1841
Goldsmith st , St Paul , Exeter
Jas LEARY 30 bakers J (ourneyman) Y
with other people

1841
Pancras st, St Pancras
Louisa LEARY  25 baker Y
James 6 Y
Ann 4 Y
Louisa 2 Y
William 1 month Y

James LEARY = Louisa GULLICE
26 jan 1835 Holy Trinity , Exeter
IGI ext


1851
St Pancras , Exeter
New building
James LEARY head mar 41 Journeyman Baker
Louisa wife 36
James 15 errand boy
Ann 13 errand girl
Louisa 11 scholar
William 9    "
Samuel 7   "
Elizabeth 4
Mary Ann 2
all born Exeter

1861
4 Darby building
James LEARY head mar 61 baker (journeyman)
Louisa wife 44 occ: errr it looks like sextoness ...  :-\ :-X ;D
Louisa dau 22 dressmaker
Samuel 17 Printer comp. app .... heres the other family's occ. coming into play
Mary 12
Henry 10
Alfred 6

1871
Waterbeer Lane , Pancras st
James LEARY head mar 62 baker
Louisa 57 ...no occ.  :-\
Mary A 22 dress maker
Henry 19 smith
Alfred 16 compositor


Henry James Leary b 1810, died june 1877 Exeter

phew , deb  :)

the family is GROWING !!!
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: deb usa on Friday 22 February 08 15:46 GMT (UK)
Okay ...this is what we have found so far on the Leary side

Daniel Leary 15 Feb 1801
John Leary 7 april 1799
Samuel Leary 20 apr 1803, died 12 Apr 1804 (IGI ext)
Henry Leary 30 Sept 1804, occ; ostler = Mary Pollard (d/o Ezekiel Pollard and Wilhelmina Spicer)
Samuel Leary 21 Dec 1809 occ Printer compositor = 1. Grace ?? and 2 Mary Ann Leary
James Leary 21 Dec 1809 occ; Baker ... possibly twin to Samuel = Louisa GULLICE

now for John and Daniel ..LOL

deb

Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: Bill749 on Friday 22 February 08 15:54 GMT (UK)
Quote
errr it looks like sextoness

Seamstress?

Quote
Louisa LEARY  25 baker Y

I'm guessing this should have said "Baker's wife", as she appears to have been a seamstress (one daughter later became a dressmaker) in the later census.

Quote
Henry Leary b 1810, died june 1877 Exeter

Can't quite work out where he fits in at the moment!  Getting brain overload!!  ::)

Bill
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: deb usa on Friday 22 February 08 16:21 GMT (UK)
hi Bill

def. looks like sextoness ... LOL


Quote
Henry Leary b 1810, died june 1877 Exeter

Can't quite work out where he fits in at the moment!  Getting brain overload!!  ::)

Bill

ooops ...should be JAMES LEARY died 1877 not HENRY  :-[

deb
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: Bill749 on Friday 22 February 08 16:45 GMT (UK)
Hi Deb

Some of those old census returns can be difficult to read can't they?

As 2 of her children became dressmakers, I think we can be pretty confident it was dressmaker - I can't imagine her digging graves in the local churchyard!  ;D

Bill
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: deb usa on Friday 22 February 08 17:32 GMT (UK)
Hi Bill

Okay ...this is what I have done ... I tried to find Mary Ann Leary 2nd wife of Samuel in 1851 ...no luck.

So I have been through all the male Leary marriages 1814-1851 in Devon and then Middlesex ... Phew!

I found this marriage ..
Mary Ann Allen = Denis LEARY
mar q 1847
Kensington

Mary Ann always says she was born 1824 , Exeter...

I found a Mary Ann Allen with her parents James and Maria  bc 1826 (rounded down ?)...she was 15 in 1841 living in St Paul , exeter.

then IGI extracted
Mary Ann ALLEN
chr; 12 sept 1824, St Paul, Exeter
parents; James Cloade Allen and Anna Maria


there are 4 possible deaths of Denis Leary between 1847-1850 

It doesn't help that I can't find any of these people in 1851 ...that may solve all the mysteries... :-\

anyway ...what do you think?

deb
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: deb usa on Friday 22 February 08 17:45 GMT (UK)
arrgghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh  ::) ::) ::)

Just found Mary Ann Allen in 1851 with her parents  :-\ :-\

back to the drawing board

deb :'(
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: Bill749 on Friday 22 February 08 18:11 GMT (UK)
Hmmmm!

Certainly does look like Sextoness!!  This is defined as a female sexton, or wife of a sexton.  Maybe her husband was a sexton in his spare time?

A Sexton was responsible for the care and upkeep of the church and sometimes for ringing the bells and digging graves - still doesn't seem a very likely job for a woman in the 1860s.  ??? ??? ???

Looking through various census returns for 1861 (Google search) reveals a number of widows listed with this occupation!  ::) ::) ::)

Bill
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: deb usa on Friday 22 February 08 18:18 GMT (UK)
 :o

well I learn something every day ...I have never come across a sextoness ...I didn't even know what it meant ...so thanks for the lesson .... ;D

Maybe after baking bread and goodies all day , they needed some fresh air and exercise.  ::)

bbs ...have to pop out...

I have found Daniel leary and family .... Daniel = older brother of Henry and brothers ...

deb
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: deb usa on Friday 22 February 08 18:40 GMT (UK)
eeekkkk MY Mistake ....  :-[ :-[

Ezekiel POLLARD = Elizabeth SAILSBURY NOT SPICER ... Thats what happens when everything is scribbled down ...sorry  :P

deb  ;D

Hi one more thing before i pop out  ;D

I found this on IGI ....I wonder if this is her ...

Elizabeth SALISBURY
31 Aug 1761
St Thomas the Apostle
parents; John Salisbury and Jane

the surname has many variations ...Salesbury/ Salsbury/ Sailsbury etc

will look further

deb
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: Bill749 on Sunday 24 February 08 14:14 GMT (UK)
Having seen a copy of the census entry, I have to agree that her occupation is almost certainly Sextoness.

I have never come across this before - I can't imagine that a woman would have been given the job of grave-digging though - probably just a sort of care-taker for the church.  I had a picture in my mind of a large, muscular woman wielding a shovel!  :o ;D

Bill
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: Bill749 on Sunday 24 February 08 14:23 GMT (UK)
Quote
Elizabeth SALISBURY
31 Aug 1761
St Thomas the Apostle
parents; John Salisbury and Jane

Unfortunately, unless one of the parties was a minor, we don't get fathers' names on marriage entries before civil registration in April 1837, so it is difficult to be sure.

We might be lucky and get witness names that would suggest a possible parentage if we had the original registers to look at - I think I will have to plan a few days in Devon this summer!

I've already booked a trip to Norfolk to search for further evidence of great grandad's family but, looking at the surname map mentioned on another thread, I've found that SNELL was also aparently a Devonshire name!

Looks like I might have some west-country blood in me after all my 'andsome!   ???

Bill
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: deb usa on Sunday 24 February 08 14:28 GMT (UK)
Morning Bill  :D

It does seem to be rather a strange occupation .... If she was just a caretaker of some sorts surely she would not have said 'sextoness' .  it also seems like they did not need the money as her husband is still a Baker and the older children are working. I wonder if it was her family's occupation ....

I know Louisa Gullice is not your direct line ...but I think it may be interesting to find out .

Would you still like the details of Henry (1804) , his other brothers ...ie Daniel and John?

deb :)

Ps ... I was born in Devon and my dad was born in Cornwall ...that's exactly how he speaks ...'ello me 'andsome  or 'ello me maid   LOL
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: Bill749 on Sunday 24 February 08 15:27 GMT (UK)
How-do Deb

Yes please - I always like to follow up siblings - you never know where they might lead.

My late mother-in-law's family were originally from Cornwall - via Co. Durham, so she didn't have a west-country accent; she was born in Washington (Co. Durham, not DC!  ;D).

Do you still have a Devonshire accent, or are you now an all-American girl?

Bill
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: Bill749 on Sunday 24 February 08 15:32 GMT (UK)
I don't think money would have been much of a consideration - a sexton would get paid a shilling or two for digging graves, and a few coppers for ringing the bells at a wedding but, other than that, I think it was pretty much unpaid!

The main tasks would have been preparing for the service, seeing to the lighting of the church, cleaning, arranging for repairs, obtaining supplies (candles, etc.) and generally looking after the maintenance of the fabric of the church.  This could easily be handled by a woman, as it did not involve any heavy work.  A local labourer could have been employed to dig graves as and when required.

Bill
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: deb usa on Monday 25 February 08 19:00 GMT (UK)
Hi Bill

Thought I would get busy with Daniel Leary b c 1801 , b/o Henry

1841
St Mary Major,Exeter
preston rd
Daniel LEARY 41 ag lab Y
Hannah Leary 40 N
Mary 17 Y
William 13 Y
Hannah 11 Y
Sarah 2 Y

1851
St Lawrence , Exeter
Daniel LEARY head 50 Blacksmith journeyman b Exeter
Hannah Leary wife 50 laundress b London
William son unm 25 baker's jouneyman b Exeter
George son 9 b Exeter
Charlotte dau 6 b Exeter

1861
St Lawrence
Gidleys buildings
castle street
Daniel LEARY head mar 60 Smith's labourer b exeter
Hannah wife 59 charwoman b London
George son 18 boot closer
Maria gr dau 8 b Exeter

cannot find Danile's marriage to Hannah ..will look further

deb  :)
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: Bill749 on Tuesday 26 February 08 00:45 GMT (UK)
Oh Boy!

This looks like a job for tomorrow - it's time I was in bed! (00:45)

Thanks Deb
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: S Kirkham on Wednesday 15 March 23 00:54 GMT (UK)
Hi

I have the Leary family in my adoptive dad’s tree.  I have photos somewhere of Henry Rheinlander.  I’ve visited Exeter and visited some of the Churches where the Leary’s were baptised.   I have a READ family tree on Ancestry.  My name on there is sandrakirkham1.   Charlotte Leary was my grandmother and I have photos of her too.

Would love to hear from you if you are interested. 

Sandra
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: Bill749 on Monday 19 June 23 20:02 BST (UK)
Hi Sandra
I would be interested in anything you might have to help me track down my Mary Ann - I haven't had chance to follow up on this line yet.
Bill
Title: Re: Mary Ann LEARY, c. 1835
Post by: S Kirkham on Thursday 04 April 24 01:09 BST (UK)
Hi Sandra
I would be interested in anything you might have to help me track down my Mary Ann - I haven't had chance to follow up on this line yet.
Bill

I’m so sorry I’ve only just seen this.   I found a Mary Ann Leary marriage to a Thomas Snell 21 Apr 1856 • Southwark St Saviour, England.   What else are you looking for?

Sandra