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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Simon and Chris on Saturday 16 February 08 07:00 GMT (UK)

Title: Names in Victorian England
Post by: Simon and Chris on Saturday 16 February 08 07:00 GMT (UK)
Here's an interesting factoid...

Having transcribed about 50,000 census entries from 1861 in Sussex - about half of them female - we have found just ONE girl called Victoria.  Victoria had been Queen for nearly a quarter of a century by now; why haven't parents named their daughters after her?  Any suggestions? ???
Title: Re: Names in Victorian England
Post by: kerryb on Saturday 16 February 08 07:50 GMT (UK)
Simon and Chris

Having so much family in Sussex, you got me checking and thinking.  I've got two Victorias in Sussex, one born 1839 and one born 1854 but yes that is it.

Perhaps they just weren't Royalists in Sussex and the reasons for picking children's names had other significance for them.  ;D ;D

Kerry
Title: Re: Names in Victorian England
Post by: Mean_genie on Saturday 16 February 08 08:17 GMT (UK)
Looking back over many years of researching in census/BMDs etc, I agree that there don't seem to be as many Victorias as you might expect, and a search on FreeBMD shows that nearly 15,000 girls were given Victoria as their first name, which is not all that many as a proportion of the whole. I suspect that the real reason is that most people stuck to the age-old habit of using family names, and didn't start striking out on their own until late in the century.

Mean_genie
Title: Re: Names in Victorian England
Post by: mazwad on Saturday 16 February 08 09:34 GMT (UK)
I was thinking the same thing as in my family the sames names are used all the time until WW2.  In some ways it makes it easier as you can make an educated guess as to the parents names from the children but it becomes very confusing when you refer to them to other people.

Title: Re: Names in Victorian England
Post by: MarieC on Saturday 16 February 08 10:16 GMT (UK)
Yes, I too have found lots of reuse of family names.

But I read somewhere (maybe on here!) that Beatrice became very popular after Queen Vic named a daughter Beatrice, and that a lot of girl babies were named after Princess Beatrice.

This could explain a mystery for me, because my grandmother was Beatrice, and I haven't been able to find it earlier in the family.  I'm thinking this might have applied even in Oz!  (Her mother was born in London.)

Does anyone else have Beatrice appearing as a name in Victorian times?

MarieC
Title: Re: Names in Victorian England
Post by: Siamese Girl on Saturday 16 February 08 15:33 GMT (UK)
I can think of two family Beatrices - always abbreviated to Beattie.

Perhaps people just didn't like the name Victoria then? It seems to have been more popular in recent times. Albert certainly caught on!

Carole
Title: Re: Names in Victorian England
Post by: Jean McGurn on Saturday 16 February 08 17:33 GMT (UK)
Was Albert popular before or after the Prince Consort died?

Perhaps people though it wasn't right to name their children after the Queen whilst she was still alive. I think most people in those days revered the monarchy in as much as they though she was the Mother of England.

Jean
Title: Re: Names in Victorian England
Post by: kerryb on Saturday 16 February 08 17:46 GMT (UK)
Perhaps people though it wasn't right to name their children after the Queen whilst she was still alive. I think most people in those days revered the monarchy in as much as they though she was the Mother of England.

Jean
Jean

That is what I wondered but how does that compare to other royal names at the time of other monarchs?

For instance I have a number of Elizabeths born at the time of Elizabeth I reign.  But then perhaps royalty was seen in a different way then.

Kerry
Title: Re: Names in Victorian England
Post by: Mean_genie on Saturday 16 February 08 22:15 GMT (UK)
It's difficult to compare the two, and not just because they are 400 years apart. Elizabeth was a popular Christian name for girls long before Elizabeth I was queen, whereas there were very few Victorias around before Queen Victoria came to the throne.

Looking at the English 1851 census, there were 137 Victorias born in the 10 years before 1837, and over 1,000 born in the ten years after that. Even allowing for soem deaths and emigrations in the older group, that is a noticeable jump, although the actual numbers are still quite low.

There were a lot more Alberts around to start with, but it definitely seems to have grown in popularity after ther royal marriage, and then again after the Prince Consort's death.

Victoria never seems to have caught on in Scotland, though.

Mean_genie
Title: Re: Names in Victorian England
Post by: trish251 on Sunday 17 February 08 02:24 GMT (UK)
I've always been a royalist - maybe it came from my family? My grandmother b1893 has the middle name Victoria and her husband's sister b. 1886 was a Victoria (actually a Victoria Adelaide). The name was repeated a number of times in the next 2 generations - I don't know if that was because of the Queen or because of my grandmother.  ???

Trish

Title: Re: Names in Victorian England
Post by: MarieC on Sunday 17 February 08 09:30 GMT (UK)
Any more takers for Beatrice - other than Carole??

MarieC
Title: Re: Names in Victorian England
Post by: kerryb on Sunday 17 February 08 09:33 GMT (UK)
None in my family tree at all Marie!

Kerry
Title: Re: Names in Victorian England
Post by: adee7 on Sunday 17 February 08 12:26 GMT (UK)
Three in my tree are named Beatrice -- born 1892, 1900, and

1912.

The name Victoria shows up seven times -- often as middle

name.


Kathleen
Title: Re: Names in Victorian England
Post by: Mean_genie on Sunday 17 February 08 15:50 GMT (UK)
Pretty poor showing here. Out of 2094 names on my tree, 1 Victoria (middle name) and 3 x Beatrice, all in collateral lines of an English family I am related to by marriage. The same family has a few Alberts, but I  have none North of the Border, or across the Irish Sea

Mean_genie
Title: Re: Names in Victorian England
Post by: adee7 on Sunday 17 February 08 21:50 GMT (UK)
I have 18 Alberts (often as middle name) and 3 Albertas.   
 :)

Kathleen
Title: Re: Names in Victorian England
Post by: Trees on Sunday 17 February 08 22:13 GMT (UK)
Interesting observation I have only 1 Victoria 1 Vicky and 1 Vicki all three my contempories but 15 Beatrice (I've only checked first names) My oldest Beatrice was born 1717 the last 1916
Trees
Title: Re: Names in Victorian England
Post by: MarieC on Monday 18 February 08 02:21 GMT (UK)
Hmm!  So, Trees, some of your Beatrices predated the Princess!

I'm sure I have read that it was not a common name in England until Queen Vic gave it to her daughter.  And my Royalist ggrandparents, who mostly used family names for their children, must have had a reason for using it!

MarieC
Title: Re: Names in Victorian England
Post by: Qldsun on Monday 18 February 08 05:47 GMT (UK)
I have two Beatrice's, mother and daughter 1906 and 1930 in the UK.  Also have seven Albert's from 1873 to 1918 all in Oz.


Brian
Title: Re: Names in Victorian England
Post by: Mean_genie on Monday 18 February 08 07:03 GMT (UK)
I just looked at the Beatrices in the Ancestry censuses, and there is a very noticeable jump in the frequency of the name after the birth of Princess Beatrice, so you are right, MarieC

Mean_genie
Title: Re: Names in Victorian England
Post by: Trees on Monday 18 February 08 11:03 GMT (UK)
I should have added 7 of my Beatrices are born in the 1880s
Trees
Title: Re: Names in Victorian England
Post by: Mean_genie on Monday 18 February 08 11:39 GMT (UK)
Stop Press

I have just had an email from my mother, telling me that a young relative may have spoiled our family record as a 'Royalty-free' zone :o. She has just given birth to a baby girl and called her Tori. (Thinks: Maybe she doesn't know it's a diminutive of Victoria?)

Mean_genie
Title: Re: Names in Victorian England
Post by: Old Bristolian on Monday 18 February 08 12:52 GMT (UK)
Did any of the names of Queen Victoria's children's names become popular? I can only think of Leopold at the moment - that didn't I'm sure. Perhaps there was no great interest in the Royal family per se then. I have a feeling that there was a good deal of anti-royal sentiment until the Jubilee of 1897.

Also although we think of "Victoria & Albert", I've a feeling that they were baptised Alexandrina (Victoria) & Franz (Albert or Albrecht presumably)

Steve
Title: Re: Names in Victorian England
Post by: Gadget on Monday 18 February 08 13:04 GMT (UK)
No Victorias, and one Beatrice (5 years ago as a third name)

Gadget  :)
Title: Re: Names in Victorian England
Post by: suey on Monday 18 February 08 13:33 GMT (UK)

This is interesting, I've just had a look at my tree, the most popular name seems to be Elizabeth for the girls and James,George,William, John and Thomas for the boys. One Albert but he was born 1848

My husband has one family who were a bit Royal, one child was Victoria Maud Beatrice, then an Alice and another has the middle name Louise.
Again in his tree the most popular names were George and James for the boys and Mary Jane/Anne and Charlotte for the girls
One Albert in 1908...he's the only one though and I think they'd used up all the family name options by then.

Suey
Title: Re: Names in Victorian England
Post by: Tricia_2 on Monday 18 February 08 13:53 GMT (UK)
Any more takers for Beatrice - other than Carole??

MarieC
I have a Beatrice, born around 1885  ~ the year the princess married Prince Henry of Battenberg. I wonder if there is a connection???
Her daughter was also Beatrice.
Title: Re: Names in Victorian England
Post by: trish251 on Tuesday 19 February 08 03:46 GMT (UK)
I have two Beatrice's, mother and daughter 1906 and 1930 in the UK.  Also have seven Albert's from 1873 to 1918 all in Oz.


Brian

I have a few Alberts, but also some Herberts - as they were all known as Bert - took quite a while to discover who was who  :D

Trish
Title: Re: Names in Victorian England
Post by: MarieC on Tuesday 19 February 08 04:29 GMT (UK)
I just looked at the Beatrices in the Ancestry censuses, and there is a very noticeable jump in the frequency of the name after the birth of Princess Beatrice, so you are right, MarieC

Mean_genie

Thanks very much for that, Mean_genie!!  Really appreciate it.  I'd been puzzling over this given name for years, and I now think this is the likely explanation. 

MarieC

(PS  Now if only I could work out where Granny's second name Katharine came from!)