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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: nudge67 on Thursday 14 February 08 23:28 GMT (UK)
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When Ancestry released the advertisement promoting their convict records, it said that approx. 22% of Aussies have convict ancestry. Let's see if we get that sort of percentage here.
For the record, count me as a Yes: Richard Rees, convicted for stealing 2 sheep in 1841, sentenced to 10 years transportation.
Please, only vote if you are Australian.
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Proudly, I have two! Sarah Perry and Thomas Johnson, who eventually married Sarah's daughter. Sarah stole a length of cloth - off the top of my head, can't recall what Thomas was convicted for...
MarieC
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Proudly 7 Convicts on my tree...so far :P Like Jack Thompson said on "Who do you think you are," Finally a real Australian link :D
Mike.
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Lucky you Mike!
I've got two - Mary Holmes stole some clothes and then tried to sell them on to a girl who turned out to be a grass. Mary wore some of the stolen clothes to her trial ::) Joseph Danks, who became her husband, stole some geese and then a horse.
My g-g-grandfather John Haynes ended up in Darlinghurst Jail in Sydney for a while for not paying costs in a court case he was embroiled in... but I haven't counted him as one of my convicts as I'm assuming we are talking about transported convicts :)
Prue
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OH has one so far. Hannah Williams stole 1 cotton handkerchief, value 3 shillings, 1 silk handkerchief, value 5 shillings, and 1 flannel apron, value 2 shillings. The complaint was made on the "fifth day of May in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred". For said crime, she was given 7 years. She later married Michael Murphy, a marine on the Sirius, first fleet.
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Sadly....I have none! :'( :'(
Only one on the tree because he married my ggg-grandfather's sister, so he doesn't count. He stole a lamb and then sold it. ::)
.....dee
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My GGreat Grandfather, Benjamin Walters, stole 1 linen bag to the value of sixpence & 1 other bag to the value of sixpence, did hold seven hundred copper pieces, to the value of 60 shillings, and one thousand, four hundred & forty pieces of copper, being half-pennies to the value of sixty one shillings & eight pence & 2 promissory notes to the value of 1 pound.
My GGGreat Grandfather, Richard Wise, was charged with the theft of 30 gallons of rum from a hoy (small barge or river sloop,) on the Thames. My other GGGrandfather George Jubb & his brother Thomas were convicted of "White Collar" crime (fraud) & came out with Governor Bligh.
The other's I'm still waiting for the paperwork to come back from the UK TNA as to their crimes & trials etc :D
Mike.
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Definitely 2, possibly 3, third one is yet to be confirmed.
I'm not at home and can't remember the exact details off the top of my head but the 2 confirmed are two of my ggg grandfathers, they are:
William Smedley:
Parkhurst Exile aged 14 (when convicted, 17 when transported), ship Thomas Arbuthnot in 1847, convicted of burglary I think, married an Irish Famine Orphan, they had sixteen children and both lived to a ripe old age.
and
Thomas Appleby:
Aged 20, ship Surrey in 1836, had been a soldier and I think he was convicted of theft although I haven't found much info so far (not sure where to look?). Ended up being employed on a Property near Canberra called Lanyon and apparently was put in charge and did very well.
I posted a thread about multiple convict ancestors a couple of months ago which you might find interesting.
You can see it here: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,272059.0.html
- Belinda.
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Thanx for he link Bellejazz
Sorry to unwittingly restart a conversation that had only just concluded. Happens when you are a newbie.
There is one 19th century ancestor of whom I have no info other than he was William Bowyer, possibly a butcher by trade, who fathered my great grandmother in 1883.
I have found several William Bowyers present in Australia during the 19th century, some of whom were convicts. He could be one of those.
Another ancestor, James Peter Vivian (~1805-1890) from Redruth in Cornwall was a "Remittance Man" according to family folklore. I understand that as generally being someone effectively exiled for having done something morally or financially embarrasing to the family, but not necessarily illegal, sent to the colonies to make good. I would love to know what he supposedly did.
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Sorry to unwittingly restart a conversation that had only just concluded. Happens when you are a newbie.
No drama!
It's not really the same conversation anyway as mine was about multiple ancestors and yours is just asking how many rootschatters have a convict ancestor and with the addition of the poll it's all very interesting to see.
I'm happy to see any topics on convicts given it is such an interesting subject :)
Anyway, I just thought you might be interested to see that thread.
- Belinda.
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I have none - I claim my husband's first fleeter - but for this thread I voted no.
Trish
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It's a good thread, Nudge! And yes, different from the last one! 'Twill be interesting to see how the poll goes.
Mike, Jack Thompson actually called them "Australian Royalty"! I like that. I'll be watching the reruns, including his programme!
MarieC
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Several convicts in the family tree and the family is proud of them. All made good lives for themselves and their children in Australia.
Third great grandparents:
John Pike, convicted 1797 of "stealing kitchen utensils including two copper stew pans, a gin cask and a delft bowl, total value 11 shillings from Henry Richards (the elder); 2 waistcoats worth 10 shillings from Frederick Richards". Once he had served his time, John married fellow convict Jane Ferralty/Ferriday.
Jane Ferriday, convicted 1806 of a felony crime: "stealing the value of 40 shillings in a dwelling house", sentenced to death, commuted to life in NSW. Family history says she was part of a gang that robbed coaches.
John James Robert Peake, convicted 1808 of forged bank notes, sentenced to 14 yrs in NSW. Married Elizabeth Buckam or Elizabeth Alcock, daughter of convicts Robert Alcock and Sarah Buckham.
Anyone with ancestry in Australia dating prior to about 1850 would likely have some convict ancestry. The closer to 1800 the higher the likelihood!
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I thought I had one.... he was one of the Exiles. Transported for stealing a pair of trousers he was only sixteen. Turns out he was not my William at all. :(
I still think I may uncover one on my husband's side one day.
His father was born in Tasmania....no information has ever been found for his birth, parents or anything.
So perhaps one day we will find a convict in our family.
Sarra :)
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Yes, I too posted my convicts in the other thread, but this is thread appears to be a poll, so will put my vote in too.
Here is my reply to the other thread;
I'm extremeley lucky, being one of those rare direct blood descendants of 8 convicts;
1) Sarah Dorset "Lady Julianna" (2nd Fleet) 1789
2) Mary Harrison "Mary Ann" (2nd/3rd Fleet - debatable) 1791
3) Edward Robinson "Admiral Barrington: (3rd Fleet) 1791
4) George Smith "Fortune" 1806
5) Mary Clark "Woodman" 1823
6) Wlliam McCready ""Recovery" 1823
7) Thomas Sarjeant "Maquis of Hastings" 1827
8) Stephen Williams "Eleanor" 1831
plus quite a few more who married into the family of direct blood ancestors. Also, lucky enough to have Robert Watson, a 1st Fleet crewman abaord the "Sirius".
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I have one that I know of.
He was transported to VDL - Port Arthur for stealing 20 pigeons in the company of others.
He had missed being transported previously for break and enters and 18 years worth of misdemenours. He was widowed and left behind 2 young children never to be seen again.
He remarried at 44 and fathered 5 children and died at 78.
Was gaoled at 68 for beating his wife up!..
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Seems he'd never got over his miscreant ways, Minnie!! ;D ;D
MarieC
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Poor sod was dead for 4 days before anyone found him. I think he was outcast by the family after he assaulted his wife. There was a coronial enquiry.
At least with convicts you can trace them ;D.
I've just been given some certificates to peruse from the family and my grandmother has recorded her father with a different name to the one on the birth certificates, also her Mum has had different surname to her birth registry. No wonder we hit brick walls. :o :o :o
Cheers Barb
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Poor sod indeed!!! :o :o
As you say, at least with convicts you CAN trace them! (Unlike some others I could mention in my ancestry! >:( )
You've got some nice conundrums there with your certificates!
MarieC
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It is interesting that the poll count has the no vote slowly catching the yes vote. RootsChat members seem to have more convicts than the 22% mentioned by ancestry. I had thought it would be higher so our vote is interesting.
Trish
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I may have more, but with names changing - who knows.
A distant rellie of mine has ancestors who changed their name in Australia after the marriage!! in early 1900's - figure that one? ???
Barb
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One of my convicts also changed their name, but not until several years after the marraige. Three of their children are listed on the Queens orphanage list in Hobart, they skipped to Victoria, not sure if the name change was to stop the children being taken or because she skipped the state without permission. We never knew she was a convict, but once I found that out, I also found her sister, another convict, sentenced 2 years before her. My GGgranny was only 16 when convicted for stealing clothes and silver plate. She lived to a ripe old age, but never did learn to write, she signed her husbands death cert with a cross as her mark!! Poor little thing... we have no idea how hard it must have been, to be sent across the world at such young ages, or in some cases as mentioned above, leaving behind children never to see them again.
I am very proud of my two ladies, they survived a great deal
Lones
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Just a tongue in cheek pondering :P
Should we be entitled to compensation for our ancestors being sent out to a foreign land to face the elements etc never to be able to go back to our homeland ??? ;D
Barb
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Good thought Barb
BUT what if they said, "Okay come back!" Do you have an umbrella and cough medicine? Not this little black duck, I'd rather stay here!! ;) ;D ;D
Lones 8)
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Yep - I think they did us a favour, actually! No compensation needed here! ;D
Lones, I too have a woman convict who had to leave children behind in England, and never saw them again. She remarried here and had more children - but how she must have missed those little ones! :'(
MarieC
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I must say doing research, is in itself a huge history lesson.
My Nana had a difficult time in her lifetime, she never moaned about it, had a fantastic sense of humour and even though she's been gone now for over 23 years I feel her "presence" every day.
I thank them everyday for making our lives so comfortable and the ones who willingly put their lives on the line to fight for our country in the wars.
We are truly the lucky country. ;D
Barb
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Just a tongue in cheek pondering :P
Should we be entitled to compensation for our ancestors being sent out to a foreign land to face the elements etc never to be able to go back to our homeland ??? ;D
Barb
I'm not sure how much compensation prisoners are entitled to ? But if they were wrongly convicted :D
Then again - mine were free settlers - all voluntary :(
I would love them to say come back - the drama of getting a visa!
Trish
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I would love them to say come back - the drama of getting a visa!
Trish
;D ;D Good point Trish, but would you want to live there all year round?? :-\ :-\ Brrrrrrrrrr
Lones
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I know he was GULTY - he admitted it. ;D
Funny how many ways one can spell Hibberd. Hibbert, Hebbard, Hibbard, Herbert. I had them all as a kid!!!
Looked for a guy with an easier name - got it but even that gets spelled wrong! ;D
A lot of names changes in our tribe, make it real easy.
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Oh, I think most of them did commit the crimes they were convicted of - trouble is, some of them were such minor offences for such a sentence to be imposed!
I haven't recently tried to go to England for longer than six months - but have never had any trouble getting into England! Yes, the question is - would one want to stay there through the winter?? ??? ???
MarieC
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;D ;D Good point Trish, but would you want to live there all year round?? :-\ :-\ Brrrrrrrrrr
Lones
I was spoilt - my almost 12 months in England was February- December & it was an early Spring - before the end of February the daffodils were out! It snowed a few weeks after we left.
MarieC - no visa problems for a stay of less than 6 months (although I have heard this may change) - but for longer than 6 months - took a few months to sort it.
Trish
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Hi
My convicts were:
Edward French. Born 1826. Son of William French,arrived March 1854. Married 15 Apr 1863, York,to Mary Leahy, born 1837.
Mary (O) LEAHY arr. per" Mary Harrison" 24 Jun 1862 Daughter of Thomas Leahy. Born 1828.
Edward French: Single,farm labourer.Convict of Chelmsford. 4 Mar 1850.Burglary, previous convictions.
10 years arr" Sea Park" 5 Apr 1954 (2850) TL. 5 Apr 1854 Exp. June 1861.
Sea Park, departed London, England, 1 January 1854, and arrived in Fremantle, Western Australia, 5 April 1854.
Father of the above:
William French: married, innkeeper. Convicted in Oxford, 13 Jul 1850, burglary. 7 years covicted; sent to Australia per" Pyrenees", 28 Jun 1854. 615 T/L 28 Jun 1851 C.P Jun 1853.
Pyrenees, departed Torbay, England, 2 February 1853, and arrived in Fremantle, Western Australia, 30 April 1853.
Samuel LAW: Parkhurst lad. Arr per" Orient" 20 March 1848, Western Australia. Left Parkhurst 23 Nov 1947.(England) For 3 years, June 1848 was indentured as a farm servant to William HOWELLS.
Received a good report for the following December.
Marrried 20 Mar 1852 Mandurah.W.A.
Convicted "stealing a Purse and six Pounds of Money" - Stafford on 6 Mar 1845.
Sentenced to 7 yrs Transportation. Sent first to Millbank then to Parkhurst on the Isle of Wight. Then to W.A. as an Apprentice Coach Worker per "Orient".
Arr W.A. 23 Mar 1848. Served several masters over next several years (Had difficulties with masters). AJCP reels 441 - 449 (CO18/58 etc). Spent time as a "Puller" with the Harbour master (Oar Puller) & as a Sawyer with Yelverton.
Father of the above:
William French: married, innkeeper. Convicted in Oxford, 13 Jul 1850, burglary. 7 years covicted; sent to Australia per" Pyrenees", 28 Jun 1854. 615 T/L 28 Jun 1851 C.P Jun 1853.
Pyrenees, departed Torbay, England, 2 February 1853, and arrived in Fremantle, Western Australia, 30 April 1853.
Samuel LAW: Parkhurst lad. Arr per" Orient" 20 March 1848, Western Australia. Left Parkhurst 23 Nov 1947.(England) For 3 years, June 1848 was indentured as a farm servant to William HOWELLS.
Received a good report for the following December.
Marrried 20 Mar 1852 Mandurah.W.A.
Convicted "stealing a Purse and six Pounds of Money" - Stafford on 6 Mar 1845.
Sentenced to 7 yrs Transportation. Sent first to Millbank then to Parkhurst on the Isle of Wight. Then to W.A. as an Apprentice Coach Worker per "Orient".
Arr W.A. 23 Mar 1848. Served several masters over next several years (Had difficulties with masters). AJCP reels 441 - 449 (CO18/58 etc). Spent time as a "Puller" with the Harbour master (Oar Puller) & as a Sawyer with Yelverton.
Assizes Records for 1853 Prisoner Records:
Entry 15 for the Lent Session 1853:
John PAGE setting fire to cow house at Hornton, Oxfordshire, England. Aged 22 yrs.
Date of warrant for arrest:1 March 1853.
Trial at the Lent Assizes for the County of Oxford, Holden at the County Hall, Oxford. Thursday, 3 March 1853.
John PAGE was indicted on 4 accounts.(Oxford Assize papers 1853.)
15. Felony = 15 years Transportation.
John was transported in a married state & left behind 1 spouse & one child - Esther PAGE nee UPTON & John Henry PAGE b. 24 Oct 1852.Oxford, England.
JHM PAGE was trasported without his family.
Either Esther remarried or returned to her home village with young John Henry & never saw JHM PAGE again.
Velcro
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Well, I'm only about 5 years too late but I just found this, lol. I have 10 convicts - 5 Irish and 5 English. The youngest was 13 year old William Leeming from Preston, Lancs. He later married Mary Curran who was transported herself at the age of 16 from Galway.I have 2 sisters sent out a couple of years apart from Cork, Ireland. Catherine was sent to VDL in 1852 and Bridget (my 3xg GM) followed 2 years later. Although they both ended up in Tassie, I have no idea if they had contact with each other once there. Bridget herself married a convict - George Brown and they moved to Victoria. I'm currently researching my Halfpenny family from Tipperary. Thomas and wife Mary (4 x g GP's were both sent out to VDL, although separately, and Mary was accompanied by 5 of their 6 daughters. Their daughter Ellen, my 3 x g gm married John Smith, a convict from Worcestershire. Then there is Edward Rhodes, whose wife and child both died whilst he was incarcerated, and he remarried in VDL, only to have his new wife also die at quite an early age, although she did give birth to 2 daughters first, one of them being my line.
The last of my convicts is Charles William Smith who was the only one not sent to VDL, but ended up in Fremantle upon his arrival in Australia. I have to say though, that the English convicts are far easier to research than the Irish. Although the Irish convict records are just as immaculately kept as the English, it is harder to find information on them prior to their arrest, and also a lot more expensive.
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Hi Angel Eyes, I have PM'd you. We have convicts in common.....
Cheers
Lones
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Some years on and I can now lay claim to a convict....at least on behalf of my children! :D
Edward Tuckwell, brickmaker, aged 19, transported to Tasmania in 1828 on board the Roslin Castle for 7 years for stealing 7 fowls.
By the 1840s he was in South Australia, and the story from there is a tangled web indeed! ::) ;D ;D
Dee :)
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Dee I found a convict for hubby who ended up in South Australia. The family thought he was a free settler. He was apprenticed to a surveyor who surveyed the rivers - and obviously the rivers didn't stop at the borders so when the surveyor entered SA our convict was given a free pardon because there were no convicts in SA.
Our convict conveniently forgot how he got here until I found him on "The John" at the age of 13.
So keep looking at unravelling that history. Until the mid 1990's I found that most people tried to hide their convict ancestors.
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I've got two that I have found.
17 old boy who pickpocketed a hanky in London and got transportation for life. 1832.
21 year old young women who stole a dead hare in Glasgow and got 7 years. 1846.
Both ended up in Tasmania, were married and had my ggg grandfather.
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My claim to a convict was my 4th Great Grandfather Henry Gentle who was born in Stotfold in 1795. He married a local girl and raised a family. In 1831, he was involved in the Stotfold Riots and also stole a loaf of bread. He was convicted at Bedford and sentenced to be hung. The sentence was commuted to 14 years transportation. First he was placed on the hulk Justitia at Woolwich before being transported to Australia on the Letitia. During the voyage, the crew mutined, so it was quite an eventful trip. He seems to have still got into trouble in West Maitland, Australia, where he is convicted of drunkeness and he has his Ticket of Leave revoked. He is also in Court for damaging a neighbours fence, but is found not guilty. At the age of 69, he is crossing the Hunter River after what appears to be another drink, where he falls in the river and drowns while mooring up the boat.
Quite a character and quite a life.
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I've got a 'pigeon pair'.
My 3xgf Nathaniel Francis Watson born c1816 Staffordshire was convicted of stealing a piece of meat and shipped out in 1833 prior enduring the hulk ship 'Euryalus' for 18 odd months; he served his 7 year sentence to the day, (once arriving on our shores), married and raised a large family and from the beautiful wording on his and wife's headstone, they had a long and loving relationship.
My 5xgm Lydia Parker (a widow) nee Childs born c1765 Dorset, was convicted of stealing and arrived in 1801. She ended up marrying in Sydney, 1802, Thomas Barber, and their daughter Ruth born 1809 makes me a very proud 7th generation Australian.
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I have a few
I thank them for their misdeeds which had them sent to God's country.
William Harris - stealing
Mary Ann McCash stealing Apron - married William in Aust.
Agnes Scott McCash Mary's mother - Transported to Tas.
John Taylor - theft
Samuel Washburn - Battle of the Windmill Canada, Transported on the Buffalo to Tas. married
Agnes Scott McCash (step ancestor).
Dorliz
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Being a new import, I have none, but OH has two, GGF & GGM
Benjamin Hamilton, Irish Protestant, transported for 7 years for stealing cows, 1827
Margaret Manning, Irish Catholic, transported for 7 years for stealing from mistress, 1830
Benjamin left a wife and child in Ireland, but married Margaret in Sydney, at the Catholic cathederal, in 1848, after all the children, 4 of, were baptised. :o :o
AC
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I'm lucky enough to have a few convicts ancestors... My 6 x great-grandmother was Elizabeth Cole, a First Fleet convict from Devon, convicted of stealing "a woman's stuff gown" valued at 7 shillings and other goods valued at 5 pounds and 9 shillings, and sentenced to 7 years. Her future husband and my 6 x great-grandfather was Richard Cornelius Burrows, a Second Fleet convict, who was given a death sentence for sheep stealing but commuted to 7 years. Their daughter Ann Burrows, my 5 x great-grandmother, married Sylvester Lush, also convicted of sheep stealing and given a death sentence commuted to life, transported on the "Calcutta" and part of the first group of settlers and convicts who founded Hobart. Ann and Sylvester's daughter Sarah Lush, my 4 x great-grandmother, married James aka John Fisk who was convicted of stealing and sentenced to 14 years. After Sylvester passed away, Ann married John Vale, convicted of stealing and given a life sentence but was a free man by the time they married. Ann's other daughter Ann Elizabeth Lush also married a convict, John Hollman.
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Very proud to say my GG grandfather, Charles Beckley was sent to Van Diemen's Land on board the Eliza to serve 7 years for Machine Breaking, he was part of the Wiltshire Riots in 1830. He left his first wife back in England, and eventually married another English girl (my gg grandmother Maria Chowns) after settling in Geelong. Another GGG grandfather Robert Walker was about 18 when he was convicted for stealing lead from rooves, his father was a roofer in Birmingham, quess he tried to get rich the easy way!. He served his time in Tassie and finally settled in Geelong, married and lived to 92 years old.
My husbands' GG grandfather was Isaac Burnham. He was convicted of killing a horse that belonged to the man that may have possibly been his real father, (he was illegitimate and also went by the alias Mason, which was the name of the horse owner). The only witness to his crime was Mason's legitimate son. He arrived in Tassie to serve 14 years. He resettled in Victoria and married an English woman and raised a family.
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My 3rd great grandfather John Whitby born 1801 Melbourn, Cambridgeshire, England.
Convicted in Cambridge Assizes and transported as a convict to Australia on board the ship "Ocean" in 1823 ( unsure of crime committed )
His wife Mary Baker - may have been convicted at the Old Bailey on 17 August 1835 for the theft of 1 pair of shoes, value 1s. 4d
John Whitby married Mary Baker at Pambula NSW in 1839
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My Billy Blue was convicted of stealing 7 lbs of sugar from a ship he was unloading - he said it was for use in his chocolate making business - and got sent here for his troubles. He became Sydney's first water policeman! And he was a black man, we think from Jamaica / West Indies somewhere.
His wife was 'a fair Englishwoman' who got 7 years for stealing a ribbon and a petticoat.
They married in Sydney one month after their first child was born.
And on my mum's side I have a whole family from Ireland - 2 teenage boys and their parents. One (GGF) came first, then the others a year later and all convicted of the same crime on the same day, stealing someone's cloak. Theory has it that they probably did it to get a free passage, as they were model prisoners and hard to trace, whereas GGF was always into brawls etc. ;D ;D ;D
Dawn M
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I seem to have a few convicts and with my husbands ancestors we have quite a select group.
On my father's side I have a 6 x grandfather who was convicted of stealing 40 lbs of roofing lead and copped a 7 year transportation in 1801. of course he claimed he was not guilty! He married an older convict woman soon after he arrived here, I cant remember what she was transported for, but she died after a few years without producing any children. He then married another younger convict woman who arrived a few years after him and they had a family of seven children including a young daughter brought out by his convict wife who was convicted for stealing a coat.
The 5x grandfather on my mother's side was given a life sentence for stealing 6 sheep in Ireland and arrived here in 1825, three years after his elder brother who was transported for the same crime. His wife and family of seven children were brought out to join him a few years later. He was also tried and found guilty of murder some years after arriving here and had an additional penalty added .
My mother's grandfather who was born in Lisbon, Portugal was not charged with any crime but at 12 years old he was put on a ship in Lisbon as a "Cabin Boy' and left his country of birth never to return. he arrived in the Hunter River near Newcastle around 26 years of age and married the local Minister's 20 year old housemaid who had migrated from Sussex England, to the Hunter Valley a few years before with her father, mother and siblings.
The 5 time grandmother on husband's mother's line was found guilty of being a "Highwaywoman" and was transported for 7 years. She was recorded as being a thoroughly notorious woman when living in the Parramatta women's prison and her request to marry was granted as the minister considered that if he said NO, then the woman would run off and "live in sin" anyway.
That's all I can remember offhand but they made for good reading.