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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Midlothian => Topic started by: charlotteuk on Wednesday 13 February 08 22:11 GMT (UK)
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I have someone living in Edinburgh in 1861, who is described as being born c 1851 in New North. I haven't been able to find this area and wonder if it was a reference to the New town? Or could it possibly be Leith?
Does anyone have any ideas please?
Charlotte
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Doesn't ring any bells with me, and I live in Edinburgh. Could it be a badly written "Leith North", "New Town", or "View Forth"? Not sure if View Forth (a street) existed then, but will have a look.
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Just checked. View Forth is shown on the plan surveyed in 1851 - one or two quite posh-looking houses.
Can't think of any other possibles - sorry!
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Thanks for your help Henry7, I think an address of View Forth as you described, would seem unlikely in this case if it was a wealthy area in 1851.
Charlotte
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Hi Charlotte
Could you post the details of the census and maybe we can go and see what it looks like :)
Gadget
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oops, its actually the 1871 where its described as New North. ( I've been looking at so many!)
I was looking at a John McQuade 685/04 023/04 003.
Charlotte
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Hi Charlotte
I've looked at the image
The sheet has New North on the Top and has been allocated to the Edinburgh St Giles district. The address is Old Assembly Close. All of the children (John's siblings) are down as being born New North down to 2-3 mth old daughter Jane.
So New North is part of St Giles and includes this street.
Gadget
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The description of the area from the header page is:
High Street (South Side) No 168 and Old Assemby Close, excluding the front tenement entering by No 4.
Note. This district does not include Conn's Close
I can't find Old Assembly Close on a quick look at the maps.
Gadget
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No problem now! Old Assembly Close is still there - a narrow entry which runs south from the south side of the High Street, east of St Giles' Cathedral and west of South Bridge.
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My A-Z of Edinburgh is in Scotland (of course!) but here's a map which shows the vicinity:
Click for Map (http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&X=325500&Y=673500&width=700&height=400&gride=325537.60354801&gridn=675386.094699002&srec=0&coordsys=gb&db=freegaz&addr1=&addr2=&addr3=&pc=&advanced=&local=&localinfosel=&kw=&inmap=&table=&ovtype=&keepicon=true&zm=0&scale=5000&right.x=712&right.y=210)
Gadget
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Hi All,
There was a New North sub-parish in Edinburgh. Could this be it?
Tom
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Hi Tom
Hi Charlotte
I've looked at the image
The sheet has New North on the Top and has been allocated to the Edinburgh St Giles district. The address is Old Assembly Close. All of the children (John's siblings) are down as being born New North down to 2-3 mth old daughter Jane.
So New North is part of St Giles and includes this street.
Gadget
The description of the area from the header page is:
High Street (South Side) No 168 and Old Assemby Close, excluding the front tenement entering by No 4.
Note. This district does not include Conn's Close
I can't find Old Assembly Close on a quick look at the maps.
Gadget
No problem now! Old Assembly Close is still there - a narrow entry which runs south from the south side of the High Street, east of St Giles' Cathedral and west of South Bridge.
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Hi Gadge,
Thought you were talking "Districts "rather than "Parishes, I was thinking of a"Quod Sacra" parish.
You may think I was missing the obvious but I have read it again, and your previous posts were not clear to me.
Tom
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Tom
I was quoting from the census entry that Charlotte found them on.
The top of the page has New North written on it (I.e. the district of Edinburgh) and the header at the front of that book describes the area.
We now know where they lived and where born - probably down to Street/Close level.
Gadget
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Hi Gadget
I googled and was given the information on this being a sub-parish. just never connected it to the census district, but I suppose parishes were the basis of the census.
Tom
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Hi Tom
It is described as a Civil Parish (as opposed to Ecclesiastical) in the Parliamentary Burgh of Edinburgh and the Royal Burgh of Edinburgh. The GROS categorises it as Edinburgh St Giles District.
Quad Sacra is crossed out.
I think Charlotte just wanted to know what part of Edinburgh it was.
Gadget
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Old Assembly Close isn't marked on the map (above) but lies just east of and parallel with Borthwick's Close, which is named.
The National Library of Scotland website contains a large-scale plan surveyed in 1851, which shows all the buildings in great detail.
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Thanks Gadget, Henry7 & tidybooks. I now have a very good idea of the area referred to in the census, especially as I finally managed to visit Edinburgh earlier this week and its all fresh in my mind.
Unfortunately, as this also confirms that the McQuade children were born in the St Giles area it looks like my search continues.....
Charlotte
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So who are you looking for, Charlotte? We might be able to help :)
Gadget
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Edinburgh Parish Church (later known as St Giles' Church, or Cathedral nowadays) was until some time in the late 19th century divided internally into three churches - High Church, Old Church and New North Church. New North Parish was the area immediately south of the church - a rectangular area bounded by High Street on the north, Blair Street on the east, Cowgate on the south and George IV Bridge on the west.
At the time of the 1841 and 1851 censuses, the "old town" part of Edinburgh Parish was divided into 10 Quoad Sacra parishes - Toolbooth, High Church, Trinity College, St John's New North, Tron, Old Church, New Greyfriars, Old Greyfriars and Lady Yesters. Most of these show up within St Giles registration district in the post-1855 censuses.
ADP
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Thank you ADP for the explanation about the division of old Edinburgh, I had just presumed it had always been just St Giles.
Thank you for your offer of help Gadget. I spent a time in the search room in Edinburgh during my visit but wasn't able to find anything positive. I am looking for James McQuaid (also known as McQuade, McWade)
He moved to live in Swansea but gives his birthplace as Leith, unfortunately his age is unreliable. He gives his age as 49 in 1901, 39 on his marriage in 1893 and on his death in 1915 he was recorded as 57. this means he could have been born roughly 1852-1858. He gives his father's name as Thomas and as being deceased by 1893. Although there are several James Mcquaids I haven't been able to find one in the Leith area whose father was called Thomas.
Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Charlotte
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I'll have a think and look about, Charlotte :)
This seems familiar - have you had another thread on him that I've either read or contributed to?
Gadget
PS - when was he in the first census in Swansea?
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Hi Gadget
I have only been able to find him on the 1901 Wales census, and yes I have posted about him before but nothing recently. I really haven't been able to get any further with my searches.
Thank you
Charlotte
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Was he a bachelor on his 1893 marriage cert ? It seems a bit old - pity it wasn't in Scotland :-\
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He was described as a bachelor, but I have widened my search to include otherwise.
The other thing that puzzles me is why he would move from Leith to Swansea?
Charlotte
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I've found and interesting birth in 1857 of a Catherine McWade, b. Leith. Father Francis McWade, a painter and mother Frances, m.s. Rogers. Not yours but interesting.
What occupation did it state for James and what for Thomas?
Edinburgh to Swansea seems an odd trip. Maybe he made it in stages. Have you searched intervening places on earlier censuses.
Gadget
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Gadget, you might not be that far out with Francis (or Francisco to his friends!). From 1861:
Francisco McQuaid 40, house painter jrnman, b. Ireland
Edward McQuaid 14, b. Ireland
Ann McQuaid 11, b. Edinburgh
Francis McQuaid 8, b. Edinburgh
James McQuaid 6, b. Edinburgh
Address: 7 Steads Place, Leith
Monica :)
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I think I'm missing a link here. Just realised, who is Thomas? Is that the name for father on James's 1893 MC?
Monica
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Thanks Monica :)
We need to get the occupation from Charlotte but it was the only McQuade (variations) family that seemed to be having children in Leith in the 1855-1860 peiod.
No sign of a Thomas with a James on the 1861 either, however you spell the name.
Gadget
PS -Thomas is the name on the marriage cert but you never know with info given :-\
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Not much help with the 1901 Census in Swansea. Children showing as born in Swansea:
James McQuade 49, general labourer, b. Leith Scotland
Mary E McQuade 40, b. Bridgend, Glamorgan
Catherine A McQuade 15
Ethel McQuade 9
Annie E McQuade 7
Mabel L McQuade 2
Lizzie H McQuade 1
I assume at least daughters Catherine and Ethel may have been from a first marriage for wife Mary?
Monica
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I was wondering if they could be a first marriage of James :(
It's a difficult surname to wildcard - i ended up with a page of McLeods at one stage ::) So if anyone is looking for McLeods b. Edinburgh in the 1850s ............. ;D
Gadget
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No chance of James son of Fransisco being the right one :'( I can see him right through to 1901 in the later part with wife Bridget....I was warming up to him ::)
Monica
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Here are the two earlier threads:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,196041.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,196440.0.html
Gadget
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Thanks Gadget, I was just about to go looking for them. Still doesn't show what father's occupation was. Let's see when Charlotte pops back.
The only McQuade (and obvious variants) births showing in Swansea from 1885-1910. These fit with a marriage date of 1893:
Births Sep 1894
McQuade Annie Elizabeth Swansea 11a 893
Births Sep 1897
McQuade Willie Swansea 11a 990
Births Sep 1898
McQuade Mabel Letitia Swansea 11a 1021
Births Mar 1900
McQuade Lizzie Annie Swansea 11a 1030
Births Sep 1901
McQUADE Emily Swansea 11a 1033
No more clues there.
Monica
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From the marriage index, his wife was Mary Elizabeth Lawrence, if that's any help. I'm thinking of turning in now :-\
Pills and aches :(
Gadget
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Poor you :-*
I saw the Lawrence ref. The first daughter at least was registered under surname of Lawrence.
I found this family in Thornaby, York, England in 1881....can't as yet find them in the earlier censuses:
Jas. MC QUADE Head 27 b. Scotland Puddler
Mary MC QUADE Sister 25 b. Scotland
Rose MC QUADE Sister 21 b. Durham, England
John MC QUADE Brother 14 b. South Stockton, York, England Moulder (Iron)
Margaret MC QUADE Sister 11 b. South Stockton, York, England
John MC QUADE Nephew 5
Annie MC QUADE Neice 2 m South Stockton, York, England
Monica
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Interesting :)
If he was a puddler, it could explain his move to Swansea - Iron and Steel industry, etc.
Have you tried Yorkshire - Middlesbrough area for the 1871?
Gadget
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:'( Just found them in 1871 - indexed as McDeide - father John and mother Jane....
Monica
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:'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
I'll have a look in the morning if you haven't found them.
Gadget
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Thank you for your continued efforts MonicaLesl & Gadget.
James McQuade's wife in Swansea was born Mary Jenkins, and was a widow at the time of her marriage to James with daughters Catherine & Ethel Lawrence.
I have found the 1881 Thornaby Jas. Mcquade before, but discounted him for some reason - will have to delve into my notes and check.
Charlotte
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Hello Charlotte :)
Could you tell us what occupation James puts down for his father on the marriage certificate, please. We can't move on very much without it.
Thanks
Gadget
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Unfortunately there is no occupation stated for his father as he is noted as being deceased.
Charlotte
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And I assume that you've found that the only Thomas McQuade (alts) dying in Scotland at or before the marriage date was
1893, Thomas McQuade, aged 66, Newington
Gadget
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I had overlooked the death of Thomas McQuade (due to searching up until 1883 instead of 1893!) Thank you for bringing it to my attention Gadget. As James McQuade married in September 1893 it would seem a possible link.
However, I still have been unable to find a birth of a James where Thomas is the father. Interestingly, I have found that Thomas & Jane (above & of St Giles) had a son Edward in 1859 that I can find no other record of. I am still searching to see if I can find him with his grandmother or aunts in Leith!
Thank you MonicaLesl, for finding the Stockton McQuade family. I finally ruled them out after finding the 1871 (recorded as McQuide) gave the father's name as John.
Thank you once again for your help.
Charlotte