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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Fife => Topic started by: beansgram on Monday 11 February 08 03:55 GMT (UK)
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hello everyone, does anybody have adam drylie born in 1856 in their tree if so do you know who his parents are. he was married to margaret boyd they had 7 children that i have verified and he died in a mining accident at lumphinins #11 mine when a slab fell on him july 9, 1900. the dunfermline press has the story on line. but with all the variations of spelling for the name drylie i have been unable to connect him to any of the other families in my tree. and before you ask the first born son is named peter and the second born daughter is named catherine. any help is appreciated thanks all beans
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Hi bg
The civil records for the period 1855 to 1875 are on the IGI so he should be there somewhere - or have you decided the birth was not registered? Is 1856 from the age at marriage given on the marriage record or do you know for certain that he was born in that year? Could he have lied about his age?
Is the marriage certificate on SP? (1877 as per the IGI) It should contain the parent names.
A search on the igi for the surname Drylie indicates many many of the folks with this name come from Dunfermline - would it be possible that his parents married after his birth & he was registered with a different name? You can check all the births registered in Dumfermline for the required years via the batch C114241
Trish
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hi trish the igi does not have any adam drylie born in 1856. the marriage of adam drylie and margaret boyd on 4-27-1877 at north church dunfermline lists his age as 21 her age as 19. the film does not list parents. there is a center near my house. i have gone there a few times for info. there is info available at the center that is not online. but not in this case. i have tried the sp a couple of times for other names and have a difficult time navigating that site. so this family is a dead end. things would be alot simpler for all of us if the names didnt have so many variations in spelling. beans
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The marriage is very easy to find on SP - Margaret Boyd and Adam Drylie - both spelt correctly
I suggest you read up on using SP - it is a very useful site - especially for civil records
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,43916.0.html
They married at Willwood Colliery Dunfermline after banns and according to the rites of the Church of Scotland - 27 Apr 1877
Parents of the Groom Peter Daylie Coalminer and Catherine Daylie M.S. Wilson
Parents of the Bride John Boyd coalminer and Elizabeth Boyd M.S. Hunter
Trish
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1871 Census
Seems there may be a second marriage? or confusion re mother?
1871 census - Fore Rowe, Dunfermline Landward
Adam Drylie 15 son coal Miner Dunf Fife
Ann Drylie 9
Euphemia Drylie 7
Helen Drylie 2
Janet Drylie 13
Peter Drylie 40
Peter Drylie 5
Jessie Stuart 34
1861
Adan(transcription) 4 son born Dunfermline
Janet 3
Peter 30
Peter 1
Sarah 25 wife?
(all surname Drylie)
Marriage - IGI
Peter Drylie married Jessie Stewart 15 Dec 1856 Dunfermline, Fife
Could be worth getting the census images - ancestry transcriptions are not the best
Wonder where is Catherine Wilson?
Trish
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Here is an interesting birth on the IGI
ADAM WILSON 08 JUN 1856 Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland
Mother: CATHERINE WILSON
No father listed
C114241 1855 - 1875 6035516 REGISTER Film 6900808
I wonder if Catherine died between Jun & December?
Trish
Edit: there are 2 records for death of Catherine Wilson in 1856 but I have run out of credits. There is also a birth of a Helen Wilson, mother catherine in Dunfermline in 1857 on the IGI ???
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hi trish i will try the sp again i am not very computer literate and so i did not do well the last time. and i am not sure who sent me the info and i have not verified it yet but catherine wilson died in the dunfermline poorhouse in 1899. maybe they divorced and and she reverted to her maiden name. and perhaps peter remarried. this is the family i am currently working on. what ever info i find i will post and where i got the info. i am sure there are others out there who have this family in their tree. thanks for your help beans
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hi trish i will try the sp again i am not very computer literate and so i did not do well the last time. and i am not sure who sent me the info and i have not verified it yet but catherine wilson died in the dunfermline poorhouse in 1899. maybe they divorced and and she reverted to her maiden name. and perhaps peter remarried. this is the family i am currently working on. what ever info i find i will post and where i got the info. i am sure there are others out there who have this family in their tree. thanks for your help beans
Hi beans
You seem to be getting the hang of the internet well - your knowledge can only get better :) but it was your comment here
i have tried the sp a couple of times for other names and have a difficult time navigating that site. so this family is a dead end.
that I disagreed with - while people are still answering your queries & you are still looking - it may be your current "brick wall" but hopefully not a dead end ;D
You are so lucky living near an LDS centre - a big advantage for family history & I have always found the folks at my centre very helpful - I wish it was closer
good luck
Trish
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hi trish my biggest problem is remembering the difference in us dollars to british pounds i kind of went over board because i forgot the difference and equated dollar to pound which was not good for my bank account. i tried the faqs and it mentioned a payment portal but i still cant get it to convert to dollars so i know what i am spending. the search on the site is only difficult for one of the families i am researching as you know from other posts the variations on the name drylie are a problem.the perfect example is my 3x great grandfather whom nobody but me [as far as i know] lists him with his parents. on the igi his name is listed as drylaw however somebody sent me the actual bans of marriage that list his name as peter drylie the son of david drylie and helen tod. the birth on the igi is an extracted record so i can understand the reluctance but with the actual marriage bans that should have been the end of it. do you know what 12 pounds would be in american dollars? and thanks for the reply alot of the info i am trying to verify was sent to me by others and has no verification so i am trying to do that before i pass the info on. beans
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Here you go Beans !! ;D
http://coinmill.com/GBP_USD.html
Annie :)
PS .... I know the feeling !! ::)
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hi annie thanks for the help now i know in advance what i am spending thanks for the link beans
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Hi Annie and beans
I also have some currency problems (from Australia!) so I always buy my credits in lots of 30 - the minimum. Trouble is the exchange rate varies every other day!! - so I just pick on a figure that I know is more than it will be and use that to watch the pennies!
At the minute I say $15AU = 30 credits. The US $ is slightly better than mine, so you could probably work on $14 = 30 credits
But then I see Annie has provided the conversion and it is currently $11.71 (but the credit card charges a little extra) so about $US12 would cover it at the minute. Probably better to use Annie's link
Trish
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hi trish the lds center closest to me is open on weekends which makes it extremely accessible for people who work all week the hrs weekdays is lmited and i am usually at work so the saturday hrs are great they will also make appoints for sundays for people with a work schedule that makes regular hours immpossible i spend alot of time on saturdays at the center. it is a fascinating place did you know that only a fraction of their records are available on line at any given time. so just because you dont see it there doesnt mean the lds doesnt have it. i know that you are a more senior member but let me know if there is something i might be able to find at the center for you next time i go. i would be happy to look up for you beans
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That's a very kind offer beans - many thanks. I have seen some of the information they have available & do go to my Centre occasionally, although since I keep finding more information online - not as much as I used to go. If anything comes up - I'll certainly ask
Trish
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Hello "Beans",
I am aware of an Adam Drylie born about 1856 who married Margaret Boyd on 27th April, 1877 at North Church, Dunfermline. He married when he was about 21 then. A reasonable solution to the problem would be to do a search of the Death Certificates. Because of the time of his death, i.e post 1855, any such Death Certificate would show the names of his parents.
I certainly know Lumphinnans, which is just outside Cowdenbeath in Fife. My Gran Livingstone lived there in Sligo Street, as did her brother Joseph Livingstone.
Because of that approximate birth date of 1856, one wonders whether your Adam was the brother of Janet Stewart Drylie who was born on 6th November, 1857 at Dunfermline and Peter Drylie who was born on 3rd November, 1859. That middle name of Janet's enables me to state quite unarguably that those two individuals were the children of Peter Drylie and Janet Stewart. It's a bit of a long-shot, but is certainly well worth exploring.
I had also looked at an Adam Drylie who was born on 18th September, 1861 to Robert Drylie and Janet Brewer. However, I have tended to hesitate on that because since he was born on 18th Sept. 1861, he would have been under the age of 16 at the time of his wedding.
Do any of the names that I have given you strike a chord?
Kind regards,
Tom.
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Hello "Beans",
I am aware of an Adam Drylie born about 1856 who married Margaret Boyd on 27th April, 1877 at North Church, Dunfermline. He married when he was about 21 then. A reasonable solution to the problem would be to do a search of the Death Certificates. Because of the time of his death, i.e post 1855, any such Death Certificate would show the names of his parents.
I certainly know Lumphinnans, which is just outside Cowdenbeath in Fife. My Gran Livingstone lived there in Sligo Street, as did her brother Joseph Livingstone.
Because of that approximate birth date of 1856, one wonders whether your Adam was the brother of Janet Stewart Drylie who was born on 6th November, 1857 at Dunfermline and Peter Drylie who was born on 3rd November, 1859. That middle name of Janet's enables me to state quite unarguably that those two individuals were the children of Peter Drylie and Janet Stewart. It's a bit of a long-shot, but is certainly well worth exploring.
I had also looked at an Adam Drylie who was born on 18th September, 1861 to Robert Drylie and Janet Brewer. However, I have tended to hesitate on that because since he was born on 18th Sept. 1861, he would have been under the age of 16 at the time of his wedding. Incidentally, the Christian Name of Janet can be interchanged to Jessie!
Do any of the names that I have given you strike a chord?
Kind regards,
Tom.
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hi tom this is one of the "errors" sent to me by somebody else that i am now trying to verify. they listed his parents as catherine wilson and peter drylie however there is an adam listed on the 1771 census with peter drylie and "jessie stewart" . comebody suugested that maybe catherine died after giving birth but that isnt true because she died in 1899 at the poorhouse in dunfermline. if peter did remarry then he took his son with him because adam is listed on the census as 15 and jessie or janet stewart is i think it said 34 i will have to go back and look. the only thing about this adam that i am 100% certain of is that he was married to margaret boyd and that he died in a mining accident and his son john was a witness at the iquiry according to the dunfermline press. so i will have to buy some credits to find adams death certificate and see if it lists his parents and if so who they were. he died july 9 1900. it has also been suggested that catherine and peter married after adams birth as the igi has an extracted record for an adam wilson born june 8 1856 to catherine wilson no father listed. what do you think? this is antoher one of those super puzzle. beans
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Hello "Beans",
I'm trying hard to piece together the bits and pieces that you're posting. Surely you're talking about a Census that was held in the year 1871 and not 1771! If I'm correct, then Adam shown as aged 15 would have been born in the year 1856, which ties in perfectly with what I've already suggested. It would also tie in very nicely with a marriage between Adam marrying Margaret Boyd on the 27th April, 1877, since he would have been 21 years old at the time of his marriage.
It looks quite likely that his parents were Peter Drylie and Janet (or Jessie) Stewart.
Kind regards,
Tom.
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hi tom yes it was the 1871 census. and if you followed the above replies trish went on sp and found the marriage of adam drylie to margaret boyd listing his parents as catherine wilson and peter drylie and her parents as john boyd and elizabeth hunter. and if you follow the naming patterns adams first born son is named peter and the second born daughter is named catherine but since the mother catherine wilson didnt die until 1899. catherine died in the dunfermline poorhouse and the only adam drylie on the census is for birth at 1856 is the one listed with peter and jessie is this peter his father and jessie his stepmother or is this a different adam altogether. and if this peter is his father why isnt he with his mother she was still living at the time? or is this actually the adam wilson born 6-8-1856 to catherine wilson and she married peter after adams birth was registered? beans
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It would be useful if you actually read what I found Tom; as beans is confused enough already without adding more confusion - and the information related to young Adam is somewhat confusing.
I should add, Church and civil bdm and associated information provide what most folks call unarguable (if there is such a word) information. Naming patterns and the like are secondary sources perhaps but I am perfectly happy about arguing against them as definite proof - when there is NO bdm information to back them up. I will also argue against church and civil records at times and can provide many examples of where it is incorrect. I could even resort to my father's comments, which eternally used to upset my mother as he stated "no-one can be 100% sure as to who is their father". I accept that this was said without the knowledge of current DNA - but this was not available in the 1800s - being the time you are making unarguable statements which can well be argued. (And to make my position clear I have absolutely NO wish to argue/discuss anything with you - I simply point out for Beans' benefit that there are MANY possibilities in genealogical research)
Summarising what I found to date
it appears(not yet known as fact) that Adam Drylie was born to Catherine Wilson & registered as Adam Wilson. Why he went to live with his father and his father's wife is unknown, but in a similar fashion as to why things happen today, it may well relate to money & Catherine probably had no money & needed to support herself & had no way to do this while looking after her son. Adam appears to have lived most of his life with the Drylie name. There may be some information from kirk sessions, there may be further information, such as an RCE on Scotlands people, but when Adam married he gave his mother as Catherine Wilson NOT Janet/Jessie Stewart, so he must have been told something about his birth if he is the same Adam living with Peter and Jessie.
The known FACTS
Adams marriage states he is 21 and his mother is Catherine Wilson
There is NO civil registration for Adam Drylie in the correct time period
There is a civil registration for an Adam Wilson at the correct time period - mother Catherine, father not listed on the IGI (extracted) record.
1871 Adam Drylie is listed living with Peter and Jessie
1861 Probably Adam Drylie living with Peter and Sarah (Sarah may well be a BAD ancestry transcription, this can be checked at SP)
No census record has yet been found for Adam Wilson in 1861/1871 - some possibilities for Catherine Wilson
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Hi Beans
I do not think it likely that Catherine Wilson and Peter Drylie ever married. The dates for the birth of Adam and marriage of Peter and Jessie do not fit with that happening.
I would suggest you talk to the folks at your LDS centre and see if they have any kirk session information available on microfilm for the given time - I have a feeling this may have to be checked in Scotland (I don't know if it was ever filmed) but the LDS folks should be able to find anything that is available.
Trish
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Trish,
Nobody has requested you to enter into an argument with me on RootsChat, especially "Beans". I have simply taken the somewhat "sketchy" information that "Beans" has given me and tried to assist her as I have done in the past. I'm sure that she will acknowledge that the assistance given by me over a period of time has assisted her very well. The same goes for the information that I have given to many other people.
Perhaps if you were to spend a few days in a law court you may find out what is arguable and what is not. However, enough of this petty bickering. Tell me, would you consider that information gleaned from the Fife Wills Sheriffs Court, Fife Register of Inventories SC20-50-6 is REASONABLY ACCURATE or not? "Beans" had another problem that she appears to be struggling with, and that is the relationship between Archibald Cook and Jean Melville. Again, the "facts" as you refer to them, can be looked at in a number of ways, as you should know.
I took the trouble to find that an Archibald Cook married a Jean Melville on 19th August, 1808 at Kirkcaldy in Fife. Now, the Fife Register of Inventories states that an Archibald Cook died on the the 13th January, 1832 at Kirkcaldy at the age of 88 and that he was the husband of Jean Melville.
A bit of simple arithmetic tells me that he would have been born around the year 1744 and so I searched for such a birth. I found that a John Cook married a Helen Thomson on the 8th January, 1726 at Wemyss in Fife, which is near to Kirkcaldy.
Children:
Catherine Cook born 5th January, 1727 at Wemyss, Fife
Ann Cook born 18th February, 1729 at Wemyss
Ann Cook born 20th May, 1731 at Wemyss
Ann Cook born May 1732 at Wemyss
Helen Cook born 4th November, 1734 at Wemyss
John Cook born 29th August, 1738 at Wemyss
James Cook born 5th February, 1741 at Wemyss
Archibald Cook born 25th May, 1744 at Wemyss.
Although that information looks FAIRLY REASONABLE on the surface, one could look at the great age difference between Archibald Cook and Jean. As I understand it, Archibald would have been 64 years at the time of his marriage to Jean and Jean only 33! . Archibald, as we're told, was 88 at the time of his death and Jean would have been 57! Of course it's all quite possible, but as I keep saying, it really needs to be closely examined before accepting it as fact - wouldn't you agree?
"Beans", I'm sure, is simply trying to unravel quite a number of problems, and I'm doing my level best to help her. I'm sure that you're quite capable of giving her the benefit of your experience, but I see no reason why you would wish to criticise me. Why not look at the above details and use them as a foundation upon which to resolve the problem for her? I'm sure that she would appreciate that more than reading your last posting.
Tom.
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I do not agree with anything you say Tom and I will no longer be posting on the Fife board - how anybody called Cook has ANYTHING to do with this query is utterly beyond me
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Trish,
I thank you for your response, and if you had taken the trouble to READ what I have been saying on other postings, then you would know that "Beans" had asked me for assistance in addition to the one query that you are making so much fuss about. The Cook family is just as much a part of "Beans" family Tree as it is mine. She asked for some information on the Cooks, and I have given it. If you are unable to add to that information, then it's not much of a problem.
Tom.
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Adam Wilson was born on 8 June 1856, he is recorded as illegitimate, with mothers name Catherine Wilson (coal labourer)
Peter Drylie married Jessie Stewart on 15 Dec 1856. Peters parents were Adam Drylie (deceased) and Ann Hunter
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Hello again "Sancti"
It's nice to see that clear piece of information, and I'm sure that "Beans" will be extremely pleased to have it as well as other researchers on RootsChat. As a matter of interest, now that we know that he was illegitimate and who his mother was, do we have anything about his brothers and sisters?
That date you give is quite interesting, since I'm spending quite a lot of time helping "Beans" to fill in the gaps in her Family Tree. As you already know, parts of "Beans" Family Tree matches up with my own, and I have been able to give her the connections between the various Fife and Clackmannanshire families. That is probably something that others can't do, and it's really great that we can compare notes, so to speak!
If you managed to see the details about the Fife Sheriffs Court Index that I posted a short time ago, it may prove of some interest to you. I think the information on it is certainly worth taking a look at it, although some may disagree. "Beans" wanted some information, and I went out of my way to get it for her. At least we now have some information that Beans hadn't got before, and perhaps - just perhaps it may be possible to build on that.
All researchers on Rootschat appreciate, I know, your great help in matters like this.
Kind regards,
Tom.
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hi trish first off i am sorry to have caused and arguement between you and tom and i thank you for the imformation you foud it has helped me straighten out adams parentage. and i understand about how catherine might have not been in a position to care for her son my gr grandfather was killed on the railroad and my gr grandmother was pregnant at the time with their second child the first being my grandfather peter drylie silvis who ended up in an american orphange for awhile. he was later brought home by his grandfather. anyway i would hate to see you leave the fife board over all of this you have been extremely helpful to me and i appreciate it very much
hi sancti thank you also for your info it backsup what trish had found. i feel that the adam with peter and jessie is the same adam born to catherine wilson. can't help wondering how jessie felt about taking in her husbands illegitimate son. again thanks for your help
hi tom you also have been extremely helpful to me on many occassions and i do appreciate the help in sorting out the inconsistancies in my tree. i did not intend for this to cause a rift between more senior roots chat members and i think it will be a great loss of a valuable researcher if trish leaves this board as she has helped many other people not just me.
again i thank all of you for the help you have given me not just on this query but on all of the others as well beans
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1861 census
Office Row, Dunfermline
Peter Drylie 30 coalminer
Janet, wife 25
Adam son 4
Janet daur 3
All born Dunfermline
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Hello Beans
First Scottish Posting for me, hope it helps.
There's an 1851 Census entry as follows:
Wellwood Colliery, Dunfermline
Anna Drylie 45 Head Miners Widow Glasgow Lanarkshire
Peter Drylie 20 Son Coalminer Dunfermline
Ann Drylie 13 Daughter Scholar Dunfermline
Robert Drylie 10 Son Scholar Dunfermline
Adam Drylie 7 Son Scholar Dunfermline
Kind regards and peace
Gaie
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Hello Beans,
There's no need to apologise. As you can see from the above information from Sancti and the lady who is entering the Scottish Board, we are still all willing to assist you.
I have no intention of confusing you in any way whatsoever, but I'm sure that you will remember how you mentioned at some length Peter Drylie and "Jessie" Stewart in our private discussions. "Jessie" was a Halbeath lassie, and as you know, that's the place where my mother grew up as a little girl. It really is a small world, isn't it.
Sancti was kind enough to give you some excellent information on a couple of postings ago and I used that to see if there is anything else I could add to it. Naturally enough, you will have realised that the name Jessie was used as an alternative for the name Janet. As Sancti said, Peter Drylie married "Jessie" Stewart of Halbeath in the Burgh of Dunfermline and the marriage took place on 15th December, 1856.
I haven't gone into "every nook and cranny", but managed to find the following:
Janet Stewart Drylie born 6th November, 1857
Ann Drylie born 15th January, 1862
Euphemia Lyle Drylie born 8th April, 1864
Peter Drylie born 8th July, 1866
Helen Drylie born 7th April, 1869
Stewart Drylie born 9th August, 1871
James Drylie born 8th April, 1874.
Now, I simply don't know whether or not these individuals form part of your Family Tree or not - and as you now know, there were many, many Drylie's
living around the Dunfermline area of Fife!
I hope that the extra information that I gave you in response to a request helped you out, even though I "lumped it together" with other data to save time! That information is still "a work in progress" as you will see from my more recent postings.
Kind regards,
Tom.
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hi gaie and welcome to rootschat the adam in your reply would have been born to early i think that is the family of adam drylie and annie hunter. if so he married agnes nisbet. but thank you for the census info. beans
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Hello "Beans",
As requested I have been looking at the query you sent me about Robert Penman and Isabel Baxter and diidn't quite know where to place my answer. I hope that this is an appropriate place!
Robert Penman born 23rd May 1669 at Urquhart, Dunfermline.
Isabel Baxter born 17th September, 1671.
His father was William Penman and his mother, Lilias Kedglie.
Her father was James Baxter and her mother, Janet Greig.
Robert and Isabel married on 23rd July, 1687 at Auchterderran in Fife.
Childen:
William Penman born 24th October, 1693 at Dunfermline in Fife.
Henry Penman born 25th April, 1696 at Dunfermline. He married Christian DRYLIE on the 11th July, 1737.
Isabel Penman born 12th January, 1701 at Auchterderran in Fife. He married Janet PATON on 3rd December, 1719.John Penman born 17th January, 1703 at Auchterderran in Fife.
Jean Penman born 24th June, 1705 at Auchterderran in Fife.
Jannet Penman born 29th July, 1708 at Auchterderran in Fife.
Well, here's your opportunity to try out one of your shiny new LDS discs! Have a look on Disc Number 22 and see what you've got on the above. I will be most interested to see what turns above. In the meantime, I will continue to look at those "Black Holes" on your Family Tree as I promised to do - but promise to put things onto the correct threads, otherwise the Moderator, Pam, will get a trifle "miffed"! I'm only half kidding about that!
Kind Regards,
Tom.
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Hi Beans:
I looked up the 1861 census. It's much easier to find children than adults sometimes. I believe this is your Adam although it was transcribed as Adan:
Information removed due to copyright violation. See http://www.rootschat.com/forum/copyright.php for more details
RootsChat must deal with any breach of copyright by its members.
For some time the team of Copyright Editors has been removing breaches of copyright and sending detailed personal messages to the member that had posted the information. Due to the volume of posts and members this is now impractical. Messages in breach will simply be deleted and this notice posted. We apologise for any inconvenience caused but are sure you will appreciate the importance of this issue.
His mother's name was Sarah born about 1836 in Dunfermline and he had brothers and sisters: Janet aged 3 and Peter aged 1.
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AM NEW TO ROOTSWEB, BUT JUST A LITTLE CORRECTION TO THIS POST YOU ACTUALLY MENTIONED JANET BREWER, IT IS JANET BOWER THESE ARE MY G-G-G-GRANDPARENTS, ALL FROM THE HUNTER VALLEY REGION OF NEW SOUTH WALES, SOME ALSO IN QUEENSLAND, ANYWAY JUST A LITTLE BIT TO ADD
JUST A HOBBY