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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Renfrewshire => Topic started by: poppysmum on Saturday 09 February 08 18:11 GMT (UK)
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Hi
Needing help again :P please!
I can't find my steels after 1861 (apart from john)
In 1851 at Rankin Stree, johnston, I have
Robert Steel 46 Quarrier born abbey
Isabella Steel 34 born kilbrachan
Arche Steel 18 " "
Elizbeth Steel 8 born abby
martha 3 born abbey
John Steel 1month born abey (e is my direct relative)
In 1856 Robert dies age 52. His death certificate is signed by his son James Steel.
In 1861 I have Isabella Steel 43 millworker
Elizabeth Steel 18 mill worker
Martha Steel 13 mill worker
John Steel 10
Isabella Steel 6
I can't find what happens to isabella, her maiden name is mcnish but i can't find her death ertificate and the oly one i can find in 1871 is John. Also I can't find Arche (he might have died but on the 1855 birth certificate it says that the couple have 4 girls and 1 boy living and 1 girl dead) maybe Arche is a girl? :-\
I can't find the family in 1841 either
I know I'm asking a lot but sometimes another pair of eyes can help :)
Thanks, Caroline
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Hi Caroline,
I think this is them in 1841. Isabella's age looks a bit suspicious so possibly a mistake there. All born Renfrewshire.
Address: Rankine St, Johnstone, Renfrewshire
Robert Steele, m, 34, coal miner
Isabella ", f, 51, -
James ", m, 15, cotton piecer
Mary ", f, 13, cotton carder
Robert ", m, 11, cotton carder
Archd ", m, 7, cotton carder
Isabella, f, 20, cotton beamer
Like you, I can't find a death for Isabella. Have you checked for re-marriages, or deaths under her maiden name?
hume24
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Looking at the 18151 census, Arche is male and the image shows Arch with l or d at the end, so possibly short for Archibald
Barbara
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hi
thanks for the help and advice
i've looked for a remarriage for isabella and i can't see anything that looks likely.
I've tried looking for an isabella steel/e death withot the maiden name but no luck.
Her son john marries in 1872 and puts her as deceased.
I think i've just found the family ion 1871 without isabella so surely she must have died by then :-\
3 ludovic square, johnstone
Elizabeth Steel 29 head flax mill worker
Martha Steel 13 ( amistake) sister flax mill worker
Isabella steel 15 sister flax mill worker
John Steel 20 brother iron planer at works
Marion Steel 1 neice (illigitimate daughter of martha)
I'm assumoing that isabella has died now, do you agree?
caroline
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Hi again,
It certainly looks like Isabella has died by then, especially since Elizabeth is now head of the household. However, I'm still not seeing a death for her. :-\ Have you tried the Johnstone MIs? Robert's stone (if he had one) may mention Isabella and possibly she is buried beside him?
hume24
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i don't know where i would find them ???
i thought i had a clue when martha marries in 1873, she calls her mother bella (deceased), i tried searching for bella but nothing.
The only thing i can think of is a spelling mistke on her death certificate, i've had a few others died in the poorhouse and the govener has registred the death and not known the parents names so maybe this could have happened here? not very likely i know but she can't just have fallen off the earth!
I know from his death ertificate that robert was buried in johnstone churchyard but when i tried to google it i couldn't find it.
caroline
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ok, the plot thickens!
I thnk I may have found Isabella's death certificate ??? I just looked for a Mcnish dieing between 1861 and 1871 in Johnstone, renfrew. Only one, Isabella Mcnish age 50 in 1867.
Bingo I thought!
However, this Isabella is single and the certificate is signed by James Steel, stepbrother.
Wht on earth ??? ???
Her address is Rankin Street, Johnstone which is where the family were living in 1856 and she is a mill worker which is what she is on the census.
So, what do i think?
Help!
Caroline
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Extremely confusing, Caroline. :-\ There's just too many coincidences (names, location, age) for it not to be her. Were parents' names given on the certificate, that you could use to confirm?
This could just be a case of bad registration. Pushed to the limits, of course. ;D
hume24
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On the death certificate of Mary Steel (my great grandmother, b: 30 Aug 1828) it shows her mother’s maiden name to have been Isabella Robertson.
A Robert Steel married an Elizabeth Robertson on 19 Jul 1823 in Kilbarchan and had the following children:
William (b: 1824)
James (b: 1826)
Mary (b: 1828)
Robert (b: 1830)
Archibald (b: 1833)
This roughly agrees with the 1841 census for the Steel family in Rankin Street, suggesting that the Isabella, aged 20, listed in the census is Elizabeth, the wife of Robert.
The LDS site lists an Isabella Robertson Boyd being born on 21 Sep 1821 in Maxwelltown, Abbey (Paisley) to Robert Boyd and Isabella Robertson. This might be her if the other Isabella, aged 51, listed in the 1841 census is Isabella Steel’s mother. The LDS site also shows the marriage between Robert Boyd and Isabella Robertson, with the date given as ‘about’ 1820 in Maxwelltown, Abbey (Paisley).
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Hi,
It's been a while since you replied to me. it IS the same family, I have old family papers that state that James's first wife was Elizabeth Robertson, and that their children were James, Archibald and Robert. Isabella married James in 1843 at Paisley. Elizabeth obvisouly died between 1833 and 1843.
Looking forward to hearing from you,
CAroline
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Caroline:
I am interested in swopping information about the Steels! A Personal Message has my contact details.
Best regards
Robert
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james steel married helen slight of musselburghthey moved to edinburgh where adam was born then to paisleyand ayrshire where the other children were born
james steels mother was elizabeth traill her mother was charlotte laird and her family were traill de holland aristocrats of the area.of orkney
marji
if you would like further info, email me on pm and i can invite you to view my traill tree on ancestry.
marji.
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Thanks Robert, got your message, I will get on and let you know the information that I have. Are you on ancestry?
Marj, are you related to this family as well? I'm not sure who adam is, would you be able to explain it to me?
Thanks :))
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Caroline: not on Ancestry. I have been using familysearch.org. Your earlier post suggests that we are not at the bottom of this mystery. I have Robert Steel marrying Elizabeth Robertson in 1823, with James being born in 1826. This conflicts with your family papers.
Marji: The reason why I have chosen Robert Steel as James Steel’s father is that Robert’s mother is possibly Bethia Craig. The name Craig appears as a middle name in later generations of the family. I accept that this evidence is thin, but there are many James Steel’s in the area to choose from at that time.
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The family papers have Elizabeth as being the first wife and Isabella as being the second.
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OK, but wives of whom: Robert or James? Your earlier post says James....
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Hi,
Ok, I'm obviously getting myself into a muddle with the generations and names so I will copy out exactly what information I have and then hopefully I will be clearer :-[
James Archibald Steel married Mary Craig
Children - james b.31 mar 1799 Abbey Paisley Renfrew
Robert b. Feb 1804
married Isabella McNish (b. Feb 1816 Middle Grennock, her parents were Robert Mcnish and Dorothy Mc Taggert) 14 Jul 1843 Paisley
Robert died 6 may 1856 Johnstone Renfrew.
This was the second marriage of Robert Steele, First marriage is thought to be to a Elizabeth Robertson. (Still working on this area)
Children - * James
* Archibald b, 10 Apr 1833 Kilbarchan Renfrew
* Eliza b Dec 1843 Abbey Paisley
Martha b 1848
Girl b.
John b. 1850 Johnstone
Isabella b. 1850 Johnstone
Girl
* 1st marriage and still at home 1851.
I am descended through John who married Annie Thomson in 1872.
I have tried to wtite it out exactly as it is written, so they are not my words. The information was sent to my granpa in the early 80s from a Cannadian woman, most of the children of john and Annie emigrted to Canada but my great granny was sent back to Scotland after her mother died which is why this branch is Scottish!
I really hope that this matches 'your' Steeles and that it makes sense :))
Caroline
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I HAVE JAMES STEEL MARRIED TO HELEN SLIGHT PERER S;LIGHT WAS HER CAUTIONER AT THEIR MARRIAGE WHILT ANDREW STEILLE WAS JAMES CAUTIONER.BEING HIS FATHER THEY HAD TWO CHILDREN BEFORE THEY MARRIED GORGINA OR GEORGIA, AND THOMAS I THINK, BY THE TIME ADAM CAME ALONG THEY HAD MOVED TO EDINBURGH, THEN MOVED TO AYRSHIRE WHERE THEY HAD A BUILDING FIRM AND WHERE GEORGE BLANCHARD STEEL MET AND AND GOT MY GRT GRRAN PREGNANT BY THE WAY I FOUND HIS DEATH IN EBGLAND IN 1945BUT CANT REMEMBER WHERE.,MYSTROKE HAS A LOT TO ANSWER FOR.
MARJI
ALSO ALEXANDER HAD A SISTER MARY AND A BROTHER JOHN JOHN WAS A REVEREND AND MARY LOOKED SFTER HIM WHEN HE BECAME UNWELL
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Caroline:
That’s excellent. Thanks. I think we are beginning to unravel this knot.
My records show Robert Steel (b: 8 Feb 1804, Abbey) having the following children:
William Steel – b: 10 May 1824, Abbey. Died before 1841.
James Steel – b: 18 Aug 1826, Abbey
Mary Steel – b: 5 Aug 1828, Abbey, d: 7 Jan 1905, Johnstone, m: Henry Logan 21 Jan 1850, Abbey. Also known as Mary Craig Steel.
Robert Steel – b: 3 Apr 1831, Kilbarchan
Archibald Steel – b: 10 Apr 1833, Kilbarchan
Eliza Steel – b: ~1843, Abbey
Martha Steel – b: ~1848, Abbey
John Steel – b: ~1851, Abbey
Isobella Steel – b: 6 Jun 1855, Abbey
This list has been compiled using the census data for 1841-1871, plus the LDS site. It corresponds reasonably well with the list from your Canadian connection.
The 1841 census is interesting. It shows Robert Steel (34, stonemason), Elizabeth Steel (51), James Steel (15), Mary Steel (13), Robert (11), Archibald Steel (7) and Isobella Steel (20) living together in Rankin St. So Elizabeth Robertson was still alive in 1841, but must have died pretty soon after that. The 16 years difference in age between Robert and Elizabeth is surprising. (I have yet to confirm this). Isobella Steel (20) is a mystery. The name carries on to the 1851 census, but there it must refer to his second wife - who this time is aged 12 years younger than him. The Isobella Steel of the 1841 census is maybe the daughter of a relative. Does that sound plausible?
My line comes down through Mary Steel and Henry Logan. They had 10 children, the youngest of whom was my grandmother.
Best Regards
Robert
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Hi,
John and Annie Steeles daughter Martha (my g. grandmother) married a Milne.