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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Jane MB on Friday 08 February 08 21:54 GMT (UK)
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Sydney Manley b Aug 1879 in Hemyock Devon. Was a miner in the Rhonnda a widower with 2 small boys. joined the RE as a sapper.
Enlisted 19.2.1916
Home 23.5 to 8.6 1916
BEF 9.6 to 12.7.1916
Home 13.7.16 to 27.11.1916
BEF 28.11 to 10.1.1917
Home 11.1. to 20.9.1917
no longer fit for duty discharged 20.9.1917
He was mine gassed on 7.7.1916
I have his red service book serial no 542 and character certificate no 158206.
I also have 2 of his medals (not his silver war badge), some spare unused ribbons, his original medal letter and box and the 1914 Christmas tin. Wonderful!
I really want to know which company he belonged to and to find out where he served and what happened on 7.7.16
(I got his medal card downloaded from the national archives but it gave no useful info)
Also he met my nan in Rainham Kent and took her back to Wales in 1920 (she was still in Rainham in June 1919 as her daughter was buried then) Why was he in Kent. What is the hospital route from the front?
Do you think he was gassed twice? ( family rumour thinks this is so)
Any help would be appreciated.
thanks Jane
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Hi Jane !
This is from the Museum and may give you something to peruse while you're waiting for a definitive answer about your Sidney
http://www.remuseum.org.uk/corpshistory/rem_corps_part14.htm
Annie :)
Can you post his medal card Jane ?? ... somebody here maybe able to read something on there we may have missed !!
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Hi
Its possible he was in one of the Tunnelling Companies.Can you look on the rims of the medal there should be his name and number if you can post them we can find his Medal Index card and maybe find his unit...They should be on the Medal Rolls at Kew but you need his MIC for the reference.
** The MIC you have its the numbers next to his Medals listings that you need you will then have to visit or pay a researcher at the NA to look up the Rolls and this will give his unit.
Ady
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Already got it!!!!
158206 ;D
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=4096558&queryType=1&resultcount=69
At a glance on SDGW the lads with similar numbers are all Tunnellers with 175 TC or 257 TC
Theres a few Welsh Miners amongst them.
The Medal Index card will give you the references for his "Pair " British War and Victory Medal plus the SWB List which can be checked to give reason for discharge(Which you already know)
http://www.1914-1918.net/tunnelcoyre.htm
This will give you an insight to Tunnellers
Ady
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Hello Jane,
Following on from Ady, the war diaries for the two Tunnelling Companies are at the NA.
175 TC; April 1915 to August 1917; WO 95/404
257 TC; June 1916 to March 1919; WO 95/552
The embarkation date for Sydney's first stint ties in quite well with 257 TC.
Phil
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hello
Thank you all for the help.
I have this copy of his medal index card. Using the numbers on the side of his medals 158206. I hav ethe box which contained letter of riband for Victory medal with same number on it.
I don't know if the index card gives more info that would be helpful. I'm not sure how to read it all.
I will try to copy his service record book too, as this may tell you more than me!!
from Jane
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hello
What is the SDWG
These are the pages of his service book, red folder.
Perhaps I have missed something.
Jane
I can't seem to do this. I tried both pages but it rejected. Then only one and it still rejected. They are jpeg. Do I need to save them as something else?
I will try a photo of him. This worked. I will have to investigate more.
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Hi Jane
He was entitled to British War and Victory medals plus SWB
The numbers next to these on the card refer to the original rolls at the NA which will give you his unit and dates served abroad which you pretty much have.
Theres about a 30% chance his service papers survived but at present "M" surnames not online so its a visit or pay researcher to check em for you.
The War diaries can be ordered from the NA its rare an" other rank" is named but it may confirm your gassing theory if you get the date he was gassed it may have mention of casualties...id go with 257 TC.
Ady
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SDGW is a contemporary document (Soldiers Died in Great War) not as comprehensive as CWGC by any means but relatives provided info and it was produced in the 20s
It has place of birth enlistment and residence plus date of death how died and sometimes other remarks but not family stuff.
Great photo.
Ady
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Hi
Thanks
I only recieved the photo last year just before xmas, as a cousin was sorting out Sidney's eldest son's belongings after his death. Also a couple of other old photos -fab!
The date for his gassing was given in the red folder. Which I can't seem to copy on here.
"Coduct very satisfactory. Mine gassed on active service BEF 7-7-16
a very good miner"
signed W ? Holloway Lt
in official blue ink l/c R.E. RECORDS
My father believes he was gassed twice. Is that why he went out and came back!
He says that Sidney had a complete disdain for officers, as they had been told to do things that all the experienced miners knew was unsafe and his colleagues had been killed or injured like himself. He resented these young officers, and I suppose as an older man did not take too kindly to being told what to do by people who knew nothing about life below ground!
He hated the war and all that involved. In fact on his two medals the ribbons have been swapped over and have been like that for a long time. Is this a way of sticking 2 fingers up at the establishment! (do excuse my language)
He spent the rest of his life suffering with dermatitis and excema. With the last years of his life being completely smothered in it. With a bedtime routine of ointment and bandages, and then all the sheets etc being washed the next day. A hard job for my Nan on the old copper!
with thanks Jane
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Hi Jane,
Firstly BEF stands for British Expeditionary Force.
The main Royal Engineers Barracks was at Chatham. Rainham is near Chatham. I found an old photo of my Great Uncle Jack just over a week ago. he had written on the back some details of his service in R.E. throughout WW1. As it was the day before I was going to the National Archives anyway - I took his details and was lucky enough to find his record in the 'Burnt-Out' series. Was really pleased as we also found my husband's grandad who like your man, had been gassed. He couldn't smell or taste properly for the rest of his life and when he died as an old man still had a piece of shrapnel in him. Back to my Great Uncle Jack - he was in the Cable Company so don't know whether he would ever have met yours.
If you like reading, and if you haven't already read it - I thoroughly recommend to you Birdsong by Sebastien Faulkes. It is an excellent novel, and there is a fair bit in it about the tunnellers who as previously mentioned on a post above were often miners in civvy life.
Best of luck with your research.
Jane
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Found this in a book "Tunnellers" by Capt Grieve
-Spring /Summer 1916
"257th TC left base General Base Depot at Rouen in June for Bethune Capt Hannay being in charge.Attached to the 3rd Aussie TC for a few days instruction they took over the line Winchester to Sign Post Lane(Probably trench names) soon after their arrival No3 Section under 2nd Lt JB Templeton repelled an attack near the Ducks Bill assisting 5th Gloucesters at the request of the Infantry Company commander"
Gives you a rough idea where they were operating
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page 1 of his service record book
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page 2 of his service record book
AT LAST!!!!! I have cracked it!