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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Denbighshire => Wales => Denbighshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: fridayjan on Sunday 03 February 08 18:12 GMT (UK)

Title: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: fridayjan on Sunday 03 February 08 18:12 GMT (UK)
Hi,  I wonder if anyone can help me?  This is a bit of a long story, but I'm stuck on my Jones' around 1828.

My gt gt grandfather was Edward Jones, b1828 in Llanferrog or Ruthin (depending on which census you look at).  He married Ann Jones (b1827 in Caenarvon) in Liverpool in 1848.  Edward's father on his marriage cert is John Jones, a Blacksmith.

I have a scribbled piece of paper where my mum (b1927)  has written some notes after talking to an aunt of hers (b1892), and the name Bontuchel is mentioned, together with "Wesleyan church".  By coincidence, while researching my family tree I've made contact with a 3rd cousin, who was told a tale that whenever one of their Jones relatives got married they went on honeymoon with the whole family to ..... Bontuchel!!  We think they went to stay with cousins.

This note also says "Gt grandfather Jones, Rhewl, buried in Ruthin, Florida Street".

We're planning a trip over to Ruthin to the records office at some point, but I just wondered if anyone could point us in a particular direction in our searching.  We would be looking for information on Edward's siblings and parents, although as yet I don't know what his mother's name was.  Any help/advice would be gratefully received!!

Thanks,

Janet
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 03 February 08 18:42 GMT (UK)
A warm welcome to Rootschat and Denbighshire,  Janet  :)

One of the places that you will have to visit is the Denbighshire archives in Ruthin jail  :)

http://www.denbighshire.gov.uk/en-gb/DNAP-6ZQKTQ

You might also want to visit the Clwyd Family History Society Centre at Cefn Mawr:

http://www.clwydfhs.org.uk/centre.html

It's a trip from Ruthin but has many records. Wrexham also has some good resources:

http://www.wrexham.gov.uk/english/heritage/archives/index.htm



Warm Regards


Gadget
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: fridayjan on Sunday 03 February 08 22:01 GMT (UK)
Gadget,

Thanks for your suggestions.  I'll have a look at the websites you suggest.  Looks like I've got some planning to do!!

Best wishes,

Janet
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 03 February 08 22:07 GMT (UK)
Hi again

if you Google Bontuchel, there are quite a lot of links - it's in the Clocaenog Forest which is just to the SW of Ruthin.

Som of my ancestors lived around there - Bronbanog and Cyffylliog  :)

Gadget
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 03 February 08 22:14 GMT (UK)
Just found it on a map for you  :)

Click Here (http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&X=308000&Y=357000&width=500&height=300&gride=&gridn=&srec=0&coordsys=gb&db=&addr1=&addr2=&addr3=&pc=&advanced=&local=&localinfosel=&kw=&inmap=&table=&ovtype=&keepicon=&zm=0&scale=25000&up.x=259&up.y=8)

Gadget
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: Peterej on Sunday 03 February 08 23:18 GMT (UK)
Hi Janet

Do you have the family in any cenuses?

I can see an Edward Jones in the 1851 born Llanfwrog aged 23 Agric Labourer with wife Anne born Caernarvon aged 24 , son John aged 2 and daughter Jane 6 mos both born in Lancaster with the family living in Ysceifiog which is in Flintshire.
Does that sound like them?
Although Llanfwrog is now very much part of Ruthin it was originally a separate parish. St Mary's church which is on the outskirts of the town has quite a large graveyard. The main church(St Peters) and graveyard in Ruthin is in the middle of the town.
There is a Wesleyan chapel in Ruthin called Bathafarn and it is on Well Street. Have a look at www.valeofclwydheritage.org.uk.english. The chapel is coincidentally described as the 'Edward Jones Memorial Chapel' and was opened in 1869. I see on 'googling' that there is/was a Methodist chapel in Bontuchel (not sure about a graveyard).
I do not remember a Florida Street in Ruthin.
Bontuchel is just over 3 miles on the Llanfwrog side of Ruthin. Rhewl is about 2 miles on the Denbigh side.
The views of Ruthin from Llanfwrog graveyard are beautiful. Both my parents are buried there. The town itself is very pleasant with all roads leading up to the square with some very interesting architecture.

Good luck with your research

Regards

Peter

Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: liverpool lass on Monday 04 February 08 09:34 GMT (UK)
Hi Janet,
I am also tracking 'Jones' in this area, particularly around Clocaenog and Ruthin. If you come across Owen Arthur Jones b 1872/3 I would love to compare notes!
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: fridayjan on Monday 04 February 08 21:48 GMT (UK)
Peter,

Thanks for your help.  Yes, the Edward Jones you mention in 1851 is the one I'm presuming is "mine"!!  The ages fit with the family on later census' (not sure that's the correct pleural but nevermind!) and I'm presuming that Lancaster should read Liverpool, Lancashire.  I have Jane's birth certificate which confirms she was born in Liverpool and Edward married twice - with both certificates stating his father was John, a Blacksmith.  Both marriages were in Liverpool, the 1st in 1848 and 2nd in 1871.  I'm hoping I've got the correct family, especially as the information my mum recorded seems to fit.

I'll have a look at all the websites that've been suggested and then plan the big day out in Ruthin!

Thanks again,

Janet
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: fridayjan on Monday 04 February 08 21:49 GMT (UK)
Hi Liverpool Lass,

I'll keep an eye out for Owen on my travels!

Janet
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: cnerys on Monday 04 February 08 23:19 GMT (UK)
Hi Liverpool lass,
Owen Arthur Jones 1872 was born in Barmouth, he married Mary Evans of Trawsfynnydd. My great auntie's husband's parents :)

Kind Regards
Nerys
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: kinged on Tuesday 05 February 08 14:12 GMT (UK)
Hi Janet,
There used to be a blacksmiths in Bontuchel, and still maybe, and i think the family were called Jones and are I believe are still living there.
Frank.
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: fridayjan on Tuesday 05 February 08 21:29 GMT (UK)
Hi, Thank you all for your help and suggestions - lots for me to chase up!

I googled Jones/Bontuchel/Blacksmith and found some interesting things, especially an entry from curious fox which I've responded to.  I've also had a quick look at the 1851 census for Bontuchel - and guess what - there are umpteen John Jones - I can see this isn't going to be easy!!

Janet
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: liverpool lass on Wednesday 06 February 08 19:18 GMT (UK)
Hi Nerys, Long time , no hear!
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: cnerys on Wednesday 06 February 08 19:44 GMT (UK)
Hi Liverpool lass :)
I have been unsuccessful in having any contact with my relations/your relations i.e. Delyth /Hefina so have left that side of my tree alone for a while. I'll have to try Hefina's daughter again and see if she's researched any further on her nain's side. I think Owen & Mary would be her 4 x ggrandparents.

Being cheeky, I am also trying to find someone who classed himself as being born in Bontuchel in 1844 with a common name. Robert Roberts, I can't find him in the 1851 or 1861 census in Bontuchel and he's in 1871 with his wife and family. I don't know if anyone can advise me whether he might be under Gyffylliog or maybe Ruthin?


Best wishes
Nerys
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: kinged on Thursday 07 February 08 17:13 GMT (UK)
Hi Nerys.
It depends what records you are looking for if it is church records that you are looking for the most likely I woiuld think would be Cyffylliog as country folk tend to stick to country churches; although another alternative would be Llanfwrog church which is on the edge of Ruthin near the junction to the Bont uchel road.
Bont Uchel now comes under the parish of Llanynys, but I doubt if anyone from Bont would use the Llanynys church.
Frank
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: cnerys on Thursday 07 February 08 21:23 GMT (UK)
Hi Frank,
Thanks for that information. It might help a great deal to enable me get Robert Robert's birth certificate. There's a possible one on the CFHS :).
Kind Regards
Nerys
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: Paul on Thursday 07 February 08 22:38 GMT (UK)
Hello Janet,
I had a look at Llanfwrog and Ruthin baptisms 1825 - 1835.
The only Edward Jones with a father John was Nov 16 1828 in Llanfwrog but John was a Labourer. I didn't come across a John Jones Blacksmith.


Paul.
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: Paul on Thursday 07 February 08 22:44 GMT (UK)
Hi Liverpool lass :)
I have been unsuccessful in having any contact with my relations/your relations i.e. Delyth /Hefina so have left that side of my tree alone for a while. I'll have to try Hefina's daughter again and see if she's researched any further on her nain's side. I think Owen & Mary would be her 4 x ggrandparents.

Being cheeky, I am also trying to find someone who classed himself as being born in Bontuchel in 1844 with a common name. Robert Roberts, I can't find him in the 1851 or 1861 census in Bontuchel and he's in 1871 with his wife and family. I don't know if anyone can advise me whether he might be under Gyffylliog or maybe Ruthin?


Best wishes
Nerys

Hi Nerys, I couldn't see him in Gyffylliog or Ruthin Baptisms but there was a Robert Roberts June 22 1845 S/O John & Linda in Llanfwrog.

Paul
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: cnerys on Thursday 07 February 08 23:05 GMT (UK)
Hi Paul,
Thanks for that, it might prove interesting. One of Robert's daughters named her illegitimate son John Herbert Roberts and I had thought that maybe Robert's father might be a John, will look into it :)
Kind Regards
Nerys
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: Paul on Thursday 07 February 08 23:17 GMT (UK)
If you have an idea someone might be somewhere let me know I don't mind having a look in the PR's

Paul.
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: fridayjan on Friday 08 February 08 10:19 GMT (UK)
Hi Paul,

Thanks for looking for the baptisms for me!  I've nothing else to go on, but I suppose it's possible that John could have been a labourer in 1828 and, by the time Edward was 1st married 20 years later, in 1848 he was a blacksmith.

I had looked on the IGI and found a baptism for an Edward Jones (birth 30.3.1828) at Mwrog Street Particular Baptist, Llanfwrog with parents John and Elizabeth - is this the one you found too?

I'm a bit stuck now!!  I'm away on holiday next week but on my return I'll try and get my head round all the information I've been given and arrange a trip over to Ruthin and Bontuchel.

Thanks again for your help,

Janet

Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: Paul on Tuesday 19 February 08 16:48 GMT (UK)
Hi Janet,  I had a look in the Wesleyan Chapel, Mill St, Ruthin. Births and Baptisms 1813-1837.
 The only Edward Jones I could see was the S/O John & Mary. Wrexham. Miner. Born, May 29 1831. Baptised, June 9 1831 :(

Paul
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: Peterej on Tuesday 19 February 08 19:19 GMT (UK)
There is a John Jones - a Smith - in the township of Bodyngharad Isa part of Llanfwrog in the 1841 census
(HO 107/1404/12) with a large family not including an Edward unfortunately. There is a son Robert also a Smith.
Let me know if you want the details. The mother is Elizabeth.
There is also an Edward Jones living in Mwrog St Llanfwrog as a servant born 1826.

Peter
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: Peterej on Tuesday 19 February 08 19:24 GMT (UK)
I have spotted a baptism of an Edward Jones (in IGI - Clocaenog) on the 5 Sept 1824 with parents John & Elizabeth.
Perhaps it is an age problem.

Peter
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: fridayjan on Tuesday 26 February 08 20:43 GMT (UK)
Hi Peter and Paul,

Thanks for all the information. :)  This isn't easy is it??!!

The John Jones and family you mention in Bodyngharad Isa sound interesting.  On the 1851 census, IF I have the correct Edward Jones, his birth place is listed as (what looks to me like) Llanferrog (maybe Llanfwrog?) which could fit.

The baptism for an Edward on the IGI which I mentioned in an earlier message, has parents John and Elizabeth, and is at the Mwrog Street Particular Baptist - all information that would "fit" with the 1841 census information.

I suppose my best bet is to try and find the baptism I mention, and then see if I can link that with any of the siblings in the 1841 census.  In all the later census' I've found for "my" Edward, his given age indicates he was born in 1828/29.  I think the ages in the 1841 census are round up/down, so the one who was a servant in Mwrog St Llanfwrog could be the one I'm looking for.

Does all this make sense?  The other option is that this is the wrong family and I'm heading off down the wrong branch!!   ???

Janet
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: Peterej on Wednesday 27 February 08 00:17 GMT (UK)
It isn't is it!
I suffer from the Jones problem and am struggling.
However you know Edward's father was John and a Smith. You know he is from Llanfwrog ( that is I think is what it says in 1851). Other children in the 1841 entry I found were baptised in the Mwrog Street chapel (David and Enoch as examples). There is an Elizabeth born after 1837 so it may be worth buying the birth cert. On the minus side there seems also to be another set of John & Elizabeth Jones in Clocaenog.
I think you may have to check all the baptisms with John & Elizabeth as parents and connect them to family names. Also do any of the wedding witnesses names coincide?
If you can find the death where was he living and who did the notification?

Hope that makes sense at this late hour.

Peter
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: moe1939 on Monday 08 September 08 19:55 BST (UK)
This is my first entry so this may even go into space  ;)

My grandmother in Heywood Lancashire was a Jane Jones b. 1868 Ruthin she had 10 siblings two born in Heywood 8 born in Ruthin.
ELLEN 1874,THOMAS A.1879 born in Heywood.

ELIZABETH 1869, MARY 1872, KATE 1871, ANN 1860, MARGARET 1862, JOHN 1858, ROBERT 1864, WILLIAM 1856, born in Ruthin.

Jane's parents were William Jones 1831 Llanfwrog and Ellenor ? 1834 Denbighshire

William Jone's 1831 siblings............Robert Jones 1821, David Jones 1834,
Enock Jones 1836, Elisabeth Jones 1838. all born in Llanfwrog

William Jones 1831 parents John Jones 1791 and Elisabeth ? 1796 both born in Llanfwrog.

I was wondering if you are able to help me with these people.

Thanking you in advance ....................Moe.
 
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: hiraeth on Tuesday 09 September 08 04:52 BST (UK)
Hi everyone
These are the Mwrog Street Chapel Christenings for John Jones & Elizabeths sorted by occupation,

John Jones (smith) & Elizabeth - Bontuchel, Cyffylliog Parish
Mary    26.11.1817   10.12.1817
Robert    21.08.1821   10.09.1821
John   03.08.1823   28.08.1823
Henry   14.02.1826   28.02.1826
Edward   30.03.1828   25.04.1828
Isaac   31.03.1830   21.05.1830
William   13.03.1832   06.04.1832
David   11.05.1834   30.05.1834
Enoch   03.02.1836   25.03.1836


John Jones (lab) & Elizabeth – Porth Ogof Llanelidan Parish
Jane       17.06.1819   21.07.1829
Margarett    01.01.1822   27.01.1822
John      01.06.1824   28.06.1824* Sgubor Uchaf  Llanelidan
Enoch      01.07.1827   26.07.1827
Abel      29.08.1829   15.09.1829
Isaac      13.05.1833   21.06.1833**Groes Bach  Llanelidan
Sem      03.12.1835   05.01.1836**Groes Bach  Llanelidan
Joseph      11.03.1832   10.10.1836++Gwegil y Bryn Llanelidan
Martha      09.09.1836   10.10.1836++Gwegil y Bryn  Llanelidan

It looks as if fridayjan and moe1939 may well be related :)
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: fridayjan on Wednesday 15 October 08 22:03 BST (UK)
Hi Hiraeth, Moe1939 and everyone else who has helped with this,

Sorry to have taken so long to reply - I've just got back from holiday, but before that I was very involved with my Dean family from the Leeds area and my Skelly's from Scotland/Liverpool.  My poor brain can't cope with more than one complicated family at a time  ;) ::).

I've just had to re-read the two pages of responses to try and get my head around all the information you've given me, and what I was after in the first place!!

As you say, the christenings for John Jones' family in Bontuchel certainly look like they fit the bill for both me and Moe1939  :D :D.

I'm trying to sort out all my "Dean" information at the moment, but will certainly come back to the Jones' ASAP.  Thanks again for your continuing help.

Best wishes,

Janet
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: fridayjan on Wednesday 22 October 08 20:52 BST (UK)
Who was I kidding when I said I'd sort out my Dean's before coming back to my Jones'   ;) 

I couldn't resist and have spent time over the last few days tracing lots of new Jones and Roberts relations to add to my tree.  Again, thank you all for your help and suggestions.

After advice from Hiraeth, I sent to the Ruthin Records Office (in Wrexham) for the birth certificate of Elizabeth Jones - and what a good service - I sent the request on Monday and received the certificate today (Wednesday!!).  She must be the right one - born 2.9.1838 at Bontuchel, Llanfwrog to John Jones (Blacksmith) and Elizabeth, formerly - wait for it ......... Elizabeth Jones!!!!  ::) ::)  That helps narrow things down!! 

I wonder if anyone could have a look for a marriage between John Jones and Elizabeth Jones before 1817, when their first child was born?  In the 1851 census both John and Elizabeth list their birth place as Llanynys.

I must admit I'm a bit confused with all the place names - people seem to change between Llanynys, Llanfwrog and Gyffylliog from census to census!

Mary Jones (the eldest daughter of John and Elizabeth) marries John Roberts, a Saddler, and this would fit with the scruffy piece of paper mentioned in my first message, where my mum had written "Saddlers and Butchers Shop in Ruthin".  I've found them in a Saddlers at 29 Clywd Street, Ruthin - which according to Googlemap is now a Butchers!

Janet
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: cnerys on Wednesday 22 October 08 22:56 BST (UK)
Janet,
I think I have looked at this John Roberts and Mary trying to find the parents of my 3x great grandfather Robert Roberts. My Robert Roberts was born 1844 Pontuchel. The only Robert Roberts that I could find from Gyffylliog was living with John Roberts 'saddler' and family, but I'm sure I have traced the son that is mentioned on the 1851 census is himself a saddler in later census. I have no idea what my Robert Roberts was in his early years, but he is classed as an Ag lab on the later census. This is my brick wall and I can't see me breaking it down at all.

Happy hunting
Kind regards
Nerys
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: fridayjan on Thursday 23 October 08 10:20 BST (UK)
Hi Nerys,

Have you seen the Robert Roberts in 1851, born 1843, son of Edward and Margarete?  His birth place is given as Gyffyliog.

There are also a couple of R Rs in the 1861 census born in Llanfwrog, one the son of John and Sinah (born 1845) and one the son of Gabriel and Anne (born 1844) - although I couldn't find the son of Edward and Margarete!

Janet

Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: moe1939 on Monday 27 October 08 17:07 GMT (UK)


After advice from Hiraeth, I sent to the Ruthin Records Office (in Wrexham) for the birth certificate of Elizabeth Jones - and what a good service - I sent the request on Monday and received the certificate today (Wednesday!!).  She must be the right one - born 2.9.1838 at Bontuchel, Llanfwrog to John Jones (Blacksmith) and Elizabeth, formerly - wait for it ......... Elizabeth Jones!!!!  ::) ::)  That helps narrow things down!! 

I wonder if anyone could have a look for a marriage between John Jones and Elizabeth Jones before 1817, when their first child was born?  In the 1851 census both John and Elizabeth list their birth place as Llanynys


Janet


Hi Janet and all.

So Elisabeth 1796 married to John is also a Jones that helps.

I may have another my great grandfather William Jones 1832 (your Edward's brother) I believe his wife Ellinor 1834 was also a Jones b Bettws Merionethshire, if anyone can help me out on this it would be appreciated.

The 1841 census shows both John Jones 1791 and Elisabeth 1796 born in LLanfwrog.

My list of siblings of my William Jones  1832 married Ellinor Jones 1834.
Mary       1817
Robert    1821
John       1823
Henry     1826
Edward  1828 (your great grandfather)
Isaac      1830
David      1834
Enock      1836
Elisabeth 1838
Joseph     1842

As I said before if anyone is able to find Ellinor's maiden name it would be appreciated
and it could very well be another Jones.

Have a good day Moe.


Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: fridayjan on Monday 27 October 08 18:30 GMT (UK)
Hi Moe,

Do you know if your William Jones married to Ellinor was a Blacksmith?

After Hiraeth found all the children of John and Elizabeth, I looked for them on Ancestry, and found the family in 1851, where William is described as a Blacksmith (like his father).  I searched in 1861 and found a William Jones, born 1831 in Llanynys (which seems to be interchangable with Llanfwrog ???), a Blacksmith living with his wife Dinah (b1820 Clocaenog) and a couple of children.  In 1871 I can find Dinah (married, Blacksmith's wife) but with no sign of William.

I had presumed that this might be the William, son of John and Elizabeth, because of his profession as a Blacksmith, and the age is only a year out.

I'm wondering if we have two different William Jones born in the same area in 1831/32 one an Ag Lab and one a Blacksmith.

What do you think?

Best wishes,

Janet
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: moe1939 on Tuesday 28 October 08 11:33 GMT (UK)
I have William Jones 1832+/- occupations

1891 ironworks Heywood Lancs.
1881 ironworks Heywood Lancs.
1871 labourer Llanfwrog
1861 ag.labourer Llanfwrog
1851 blacksmith Llanfwrog

1851 his father John a blacksmith and farmer of 4 acres Isaac is shown as a blacksmith to.

It looks like I need a copy of his marriage certificate.

Have a good day  ... Moe

PS  I am sure about William is married to Ellinor possably married in 1855 so that would delete William /Dinah.
The change from blacksmith 1851 to Ag. labourer 1861 could be he was working his father's 4 acres?? When he moved to Heywood his occupation was a moulders labourer in the ironworks maybe a throw back to blacksmith days.
Anyway I will let you know what I find out.

PPS I have confimation on William & Elinor... Married 1855 Llanfwrog St Mwrog and St Mary Ruthin Denbighshire C36/1/80 and her maiden name was also Jones.
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: moe1939 on Tuesday 11 November 08 18:47 GMT (UK)
Janet,
I think I have looked at this John Roberts and Mary trying to find the parents of my 3x great grandfather Robert Roberts. My Robert Roberts was born 1844 Pontuchel. The only Robert Roberts that I could find from Gyffylliog was living with John Roberts 'saddler' and family, but I'm sure I have traced the son that is mentioned on the 1851 census is himself a saddler in later census. I have no idea what my Robert Roberts was in his early years, but he is classed as an Ag lab on the later census. This is my brick wall and I can't see me breaking it down at all.

Happy hunting
Kind regards
Nerys

This may be of some use it was included in some information I received under John Jones/Elizabeth Jones Descendants

17. Robert ROBERTS (Mary JONES-2, John-1) was born in 1843 in Gyffylliog, Denbighshire, Wales. He
appeared on the census in Mar 1851 in Ty Gwyn (Bontuchel), Gyffylliog, Denbighshire, Wales. Recorded as
scholar in Mar 1851. He appeared on the census in Apr 1861 in Pengraig, Llanynys, Denbighshire, Wales. In Apr
1861 he is described as a Saddler. He appeared on the census in Apr 1871 in 35 Clwyd Street, Ruthin,
Denbighshire, Wales. In Apr 1871 he is described as Saddler employing 1 boy. He appeared on the census in
Apr 1881 in 29 Clwyd Street, Ruthin, Denbighshire, Wales. In Apr 1881 he is described as Saddler Master,
employing 2 men. He appeared on the census in Apr 1891 in 29 Clwyd Street, Ruthin, Denbighshire, Wales. In
Apr 1891 he is described as Saddler. He appeared on the census in Mar 1901 in 29 Clwyd Street, Ruthin,
Denbighshire, Wales. In Mar 1901 he is described as Saddler.
Robert ROBERTS and Grace JONES were married September quarter 1868 in Ruthin District, Denbighshire,
Wales.9 Grace JONES (daughter of * Thomas JONES and Grace EVANS) was born in 1846 in Llanfawr,
Merioneth, Wales. She appeared on the census in Mar 1851 in Llanfawr, Llanfawr, Merioneth, Wales.
(this is the best guess for a match for Grace Jones - there are 2 that might match, both with a father Thomas).


 

Have a good day Moe
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: cnerys on Tuesday 11 November 08 22:19 GMT (UK)
Hi Moe,
What a lot of information you have sent and sadly it has confirmed to me that the Robert Roberts son of John and Mary of Bontuchel Gyffylliog isn't the correct Robert Roberts for me. I know the whereabouts of him from the 1871 census, he is living with wife Jane and 2 children in Brookhouse Denbigh. I appreciate all the hard work you have put in - and typed out !!  :)
I am determined to find him though and will have to look at the other options again.

Kind Regards
Nerys
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: moe1939 on Tuesday 11 November 08 22:39 GMT (UK)
No problem ...as I said it was from a friend so my effort was strictly Copy and Paste  ;)
Regards Moe
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: moe1939 on Wednesday 19 November 08 14:13 GMT (UK)
Hi Janet

I received a marriage certificate for William 24 and Ellinor 21 on the 17 March1855 it showed William's father John- Labourer and Ellinor's father Morris- Labourer.
I have decided John (Blacksmith) and Elizabeth are not the ones I am looking for and have gone back to John and Margaret 1841 Llanfwrog census Dist 4 Page 9 showing
John Jones 45 Ag. Lab Margaret Jones 50, William 10, Lewis 5, Jane 3 this gives William's birth in 1831.

Have a good day... Moe


Hi Moe,

Do you know if your William Jones married to Ellinor was a Blacksmith?

After Hiraeth found all the children of John and Elizabeth, I looked for them on Ancestry, and found the family in 1851, where William is described as a Blacksmith (like his father).  I searched in 1861 and found a William Jones, born 1831 in Llanynys (which seems to be interchangable with Llanfwrog ???), a Blacksmith living with his wife Dinah (b1820 Clocaenog) and a couple of children.  In 1871 I can find Dinah (married, Blacksmith's wife) but with no sign of William.

I had presumed that this might be the William, son of John and Elizabeth, because of his profession as a Blacksmith, and the age is only a year out.

I'm wondering if we have two different William Jones born in the same area in 1831/32 one an Ag Lab and one a Blacksmith.

What do you think?

Best wishes,

Janet
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: fridayjan on Wednesday 19 November 08 17:53 GMT (UK)
Hi Moe,

Thanks for letting me know about William and Ellinor.  I think I'll send for the marriage certificate of William Jones to Dinah Roberts in Ruthin, 1857 to see what that says.

Good luck with your searching.

Janet
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: fridayjan on Sunday 23 November 08 12:17 GMT (UK)
Hi Moe,

No luck with the other William either I'm afraid!  I sent for the certificate and it says his father is Edward, also a Blacksmith.  You never know, we may find he fits in somewhere.

Here are the details:

13.5.1857 at Ruthin Register Office,

William Jones, 24 yrs, Bachelor, Blacksmith of Llan Clocaenog, father Edward Jones, Blacksmith to

Dinah Roberts, of full age, Spinster, Baker of Llan Clocaenog, father Robert Roberts, Stonemason

Witnesses: John Davies and Anne Rogers

I'll keep looking, and hope to get over to Ruthin soon, although I suspect it's going to be in the New Year now.

Best wishes,

Janet
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: mrs pauline shone on Thursday 27 February 14 18:25 GMT (UK)
My g.g. grandfather was Joseph Jones b. 1832 Gwegil y Bryn. Father John Jones a labourer and mother Elizabeth Jones, formerly Roberts. Porth Ogof llanelidan

Joseph went to Stoke-on-Trent and married there, he worked as a coal miner. His son Arthur was my g. grandfather he was also a miner and died at only 30 years of age. His son William was my grandfather. His son Harold was my father.

If anyone could give information about John and Elizabeth that would be great.

Pauline
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: redvanman on Thursday 06 July 17 19:53 BST (UK)
Nine years on from the original discussion, I found this thread while making my own search for the same family.
Thanks to everyone who contributed - especially to Hiraeth for his lists of the John and Elizabeth Jones children, which saved me a lot of searching.
John Roberts, the saddler who FridayJan mentioned, is my g g grandfather. His son Robert and his grandson (also Robert) were both saddlers. The younger Robert was the subject of an article in the Liverpool Daily Post in 1951 when he was reportedly the oldest working saddler in North Wales (aged 78 at the time).
He was my grandfather and was still working well up into his 80s.
Alyn 
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: cnerys on Tuesday 25 July 17 17:08 BST (UK)
Hi Alyn,
I am glad you have found this article of value to you, it was interesting to read back what other people had replied to my original question. I have since still been unable to find out anything on my Robert Roberts b 1844 Gyffylliog/Bontuchel so that line of my ancestry is a bit of a brick wall at the moment.
Kind Regards
Nerys
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: louisehayes73 on Sunday 21 July 24 16:54 BST (UK)
Hi Nerys,

My name is Louise. My mum was Hefina Jones  Born in 1959 originally from Anglesey/Llangefni, she ran away to Liverpool at a young age, My Taid was called Huw Myfyr Jones Born 27 Mar 1923 Treangharad, Bodedern and my Nain was (Gertie) Gertrude Murphy Born:24 Oct 1923 Delvin, Ireland. My GG Nain Olwen Williams
Born:21 DEC 1883 Capel Pennant and GG Taid was William Jones Born:10 Jun 1882 Llanbedrog, Caernarvonshire, Wales.

I was wondering f you knew my mother.
Thank you  Louise x
Title: Re: Jones' of Bontuchel/Ruthin
Post by: cnerys on Saturday 27 July 24 22:13 BST (UK)
Hi Louise,
I'm sorry but I don't recognise any of the names or places that you mentioned in your message.
Kind Regards
Nerys