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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: lillian66 on Saturday 02 February 08 19:40 GMT (UK)

Title: The Kings Liverpool Regiment
Post by: lillian66 on Saturday 02 February 08 19:40 GMT (UK)
Hi All

Does anyone know where I can find out more about The Kings Liverpool Regiment??

I have two great uncles who were both killed in WW1 serving in this regiment and would like to try and find where they would have been fighting.

Does anyone know of a regimental website??

Thanks
Title: Re: The Kings Liverpool Regiment
Post by: richard64 on Saturday 02 February 08 19:52 GMT (UK)
The Liverpool Museum has a WW1 database for this regiment. I used it once and it was very user friendly

I think this should be the link but if not try google.


http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/mol/history/citysoldiers/research/

Wikipedia has a lot of background info on the regiment.

Richard



Title: Re: The Kings Liverpool Regiment
Post by: lillian66 on Saturday 02 February 08 20:27 GMT (UK)
Hi Richard

Thanks for the link.  I will give it a try.

Helen
Title: Re: The Kings Liverpool Regiment
Post by: mmm45 on Sunday 03 February 08 02:00 GMT (UK)
Helen
If you know their Battalions which you may get from CWGC or Soldiers Died you could follow their war through this link

http://www.1914-1918.net/kings.htm


Ady



Title: Re: The Kings Liverpool Regiment
Post by: harribobs on Sunday 03 February 08 10:49 GMT (UK)
why not post their name and lets see what we can come up with

Title: Re: The Kings Liverpool Regiment
Post by: lillian66 on Sunday 03 February 08 19:46 GMT (UK)
They were private Thomas Shaw 1st & 9th Bn (331412) and private William Henry Shaw 13th Bn (18968).

Thanks for all your help so far

Helen
Title: Re: The Kings Liverpool Regiment
Post by: millymcb on Sunday 03 February 08 21:13 GMT (UK)
When I was researching a soldier from the King's Liverpool I e-mailed the Liverpool Museum (at the website RIchard gave you) and they very kindly sent me some information from their database. 


They sent a really helpful factsheet with lots of info sources, websites and further reading.  Also they sent a list of what war diaries are available and sheet with details of where the various battalions were on certain dates.

You could mail them or if you PM me with your e-mail address I could forward them to you. 

Milly
 :)

Title: Re: The Kings Liverpool Regiment
Post by: millymcb on Sunday 03 February 08 21:21 GMT (UK)
Here's info about those two Battalions from the Liverpool Museum document they sent me....


THE 1/9TH

1/9th Battalion T.F.
4.8.14 
57 Everton Road, Liverpool: South Lancs. Bde. West Lancs. Div.

13.8.14
to Edinburgh-Brigade was on Forth Defences.

Oct. 1914
to Tunbridge Wells.

13.3.15
landed at Havre and to 2nd Bde. 1st Div.

12.11.15
to 3rd Bde. 1st Div.

7.1.16
to 165th Bde. 55th Div.

1.2.18
to 172nd Bde. 57th Div. Absorbing 2/9th Bn.

11.11.18
172nd Bde. 57th Div. France; Hellemmes, east of Lille.



THE 13th..

13th (Service) Battalion.
Formed Oct. 1914 at Seaforth, Liverpool-K3-to Salisbury Plain; Army Troops 25th Div.

Nov. 1914
to Bournemouth in billets.

Feb. 1915
to 76th Bde. 25th Div.

May 1915
to Aldershot.

27.9.15
landed at Havre.

15.10.15
76th Bde. to 3rd Div.

23.10.15
to 8th Bde. 3rd Div.

4.4.16
to 9th Bde. 3rd Div.

11.11.18
9th Bde. 3rd Div. France; Le Grand Sart, east of Le Quesnoy.


Milly
Title: Re: The Kings Liverpool Regiment
Post by: andycand on Sunday 03 February 08 22:11 GMT (UK)
Hi

The link below may be helpful

http://www.regiments.org/regiments/uk/inf/008KingL.htm

Andy
Title: Re: The Kings Liverpool Regiment
Post by: harribobs on Sunday 03 February 08 23:46 GMT (UK)
soldiers died has Thomas down as 9th battalion and CWGC as 1/9th,

he has a territorial number as well so i suspect you have confused 1/9th as meaning he was also in the first battalion. without getting too technical, it's just that the 9th was split into different battalions (1/9th, 2/9th and 3/9th) and he was in the 1st/9th

this means you don't have to be looking into the 1st battalions where abouts ;)


Title: Re: The Kings Liverpool Regiment
Post by: robbo46 on Saturday 16 February 08 14:28 GMT (UK)
Brief History of Kings Regiment

The King's Regiment (Liverpool) was a regiment of the British Army. Having been formed in 1685 and numbered as the 8th in 1751, the regiment was one of the oldest in the army. As the city regiment of Liverpool, the King's was one of only three regiments affiliated to a city in the British Army (the others being the Royal Fusiliers and the Manchester Regiment). After 273 years of continuous existence, the regiment was amalgamated with the Manchesters in 1958.

It notably saw active service in the Second Boer War, the two World Wars, and the Korean War. Nine Victoria Crosses (VC) were awarded to the regiment, the first in 1900 and the last in 1918. An additional two VCs were awarded to Royal Army Medical Corps officer Noel Godfrey Chavasse, who was attached to the Liverpool Scottish during the First World War.

The regiment was referred to variously as L'POOL R, the Liverpools, KLR and the King's. The usage of "L'POOL R" and "the Liverpools" was most prevalent from the 1880s to the 1920s.

In 1881, under the Cardwell-Childers reforms, the British Army's structure was substantially reorganised: most regiments were amalgamated, given city or county affiliation and the regular, militia, and volunteer battalions were integrated into one regimental structure. Thus, on 1 July, the two battalions of the 8th (The King's) Regiment of Foot became the 1st and 2nd Battalions, The King's (Liverpool Regiment). The 8th King's had been associated with Liverpool since 1873, when the regiment was allocated to the 13th Brigade Depot in Liverpool. Many of the non-regular militia and volunteer battalions that existed in Lancashire and the Isle of Man became reserve battalions of the regiment. By 1908, the regiment was one of the largest in the British Army. Some of the battalions maintained individual distinctions, such as unique titles, cap badges, uniforms, and honorary colonels.

The 1st King's were based in North West England during the period of the army's reforms — its time there was not entirely peaceful. While based in Salford Barracks, Manchester, the battalion was subject to a bomb attack by "Fenians". The barracks sustained some structural damage as a result of the explosion, which killed a child and badly wounded its mother.[1] The battalion was also called upon to help quell riots that broke out following a mineworkers' strike. In 1882, the battalion was posted to Ireland, based in the Curragh. Though the posting was overall uneventful, the battalion did help reestablish order during four riots in Belfast following the defeat of the 1886 Home Rule Bill in the British Parliament. About fifty people died during the disturbances. The battalion returned to England three years later.


on the 1 July 2006 the Kings were amalgamated with the KORB & QLR to make the Duke of Lancaster's Regiment  see web site www.army.mod.uk/lancs/index.htm
Title: Re: The Kings Liverpool Regiment
Post by: ike on Monday 18 February 08 11:48 GMT (UK)
so could you tell me what the 5th bn "The Kings" was please
Title: Re: The Kings Liverpool Regiment
Post by: mmm45 on Monday 18 February 08 12:29 GMT (UK)
Ike are we talking Great War period??
If so 5th Batt was a Territorial Batt of the Kings Liverpool Regiment there were 1/5th,2/5th and 3/5th Batts of a number of Territorial units

1/5th were the first line Territorials who went overseas first the 2/5th would be training,unfit lads or lads who didnt take Imperial Obligation to go overseas

Hope it helps

Ady
Title: Re: The Kings Liverpool Regiment
Post by: ike on Monday 18 February 08 15:49 GMT (UK)
thanks for that, only on his death cert it has 5th bn"The King's" [liverpool reg]
then were it says rank it has posted RFN 18 KLR   he was killed at passiondale 31 July 1917 ypes. his body was never found and his name is on the menin gate
Title: Re: The Kings Liverpool Regiment
Post by: harribobs on Monday 18 February 08 16:44 GMT (UK)
thanks for that, only on his death cert it has 5th bn"The King's" [liverpool reg]
then were it says rank it has posted RFN 18 KLR   he was killed at passiondale 31 July 1917 ypes. his body was never found and his name is on the menin gate

i am very surprised that his rank is recorded as RFN, ie rifleman, if he was in the kings he would have been a private, if  he had been in the KRRC, he would have been a rifleman

why not post his details?
Title: Re: The Kings Liverpool Regiment
Post by: ike on Monday 18 February 08 17:19 GMT (UK)
hi there
 thats on his death cert.  i dont know only whats on there, the was a ag lab and worked with horse before he joined up  what do the letters  RFN 18 KLR mean please
Title: Re: The Kings Liverpool Regiment
Post by: mmm45 on Monday 18 February 08 17:40 GMT (UK)
Hi
Rfn is short for Rifleman which is a rank used by the Kings Royal Rifle Corps

Kings Liverpool Regiment used Private as the same rank...5th KLR didnt lose anyone on 31st /7/17 according to SDGW but 18th KRRC lost 54 lads casualties
If you post his surname we can help you out here.
 :)
Title: Re: The Kings Liverpool Regiment
Post by: ike on Monday 18 February 08 17:47 GMT (UK)
he was albert brown 235283 it says on his death cert 31/7/1917 age 35 which is wrong and killed in action place B.E.F Frances   found him on cwgc site and sent for his death cert,  its getting confusing now
Title: Re: The Kings Liverpool Regiment
Post by: mmm45 on Monday 18 February 08 17:52 GMT (UK)
Here we go
Born Middlesborough,Enlisted Norwich Resident Southacre Norfolk
Formerley 1983 Yorkshire Regiment

Ady -he was listed as 18th KLR.
Title: Re: The Kings Liverpool Regiment
Post by: ike on Monday 18 February 08 18:02 GMT (UK)
thats my g/dad, so was he a riffleman then i only have what on his cert.
do m you mean he was formeley in the yorkshire reg first
Title: Re: The Kings Liverpool Regiment
Post by: mmm45 on Monday 18 February 08 18:12 GMT (UK)
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=1639729&queryType=1&resultcount=1

Heres his Medal Index card to download it costs£3.50 it MAY contain other info.

Soldiers Died says he was in the Yorkshire Regiment first but may not have gone overseas with them as there is no MIC to say so...It also looks like a possible Territorial number for the Yorks Regiment.

CWGC,sdgw and his MIC all have him as Private am not sure if Riflemen existed within the Yorks Regiment(Green Howards)Its basically a Rifle Brigade rank of Private.

Ady
Title: Re: The Kings Liverpool Regiment
Post by: ike on Monday 18 February 08 18:21 GMT (UK)
thanks so it means his death cert is all to cock them
Title: Re: The Kings Liverpool Regiment
Post by: mmm45 on Monday 18 February 08 18:36 GMT (UK)
Ive just looked on the GRO Overseas war deaths which is probably what the death cert has been taken from and he is indeed listed as Rfn Brown his number is the same are you in possession of his medals they should have number on the rim

I wouldnt say it was to cock and the SDGW/CWGC uses only stuff that were supplied by relatives at the time.

Death Certs for war deaths in my dealings have never given me anything more than CWGC/SDGW has so i rarely get them

If you do download his Medal Card there may be several codes on there so post it online im sure someone will decypher it for you.
Title: Re: The Kings Liverpool Regiment
Post by: ike on Monday 18 February 08 18:46 GMT (UK)
got a print out of 6 on a sheet just know and hes got by the look of it a victory and a british medals nothing else on it  name rank,..  pt  no.  l'pool  thats it
H/2/102B47 [roll] page 7709 [that the vic]  and the other one has  dito what does it all mean   no i dont have his medals, it was just by chance i found this posting never thought there would be anything wrong
Title: Re: The Kings Liverpool Regiment
Post by: mmm45 on Monday 18 February 08 19:23 GMT (UK)
Hi
Yes thats right you get 6 MICs on one print out the one with 235283 in the Regimental number box is your grandads

If it just says Victory and British War then he didnt deploy overseas til 1916 as no 1915 Star issued the numbers and letters next to it refer to the actual Medal Rolls at Kew which would give actual join up date,date overseas and possibly battalion number

They arent available online you have to visit or pay an reasearcher to get you info.

ive looked at his Yorks Regiment number with the lads who died on SDGW and its close to a 5th Batt Yorks Regiment probably  2/5th Yorks Regiment (second line Territorial unit  in UK.)...They were broken up and posted in July 1916 to fill casualties from 1st of July Looks like he was posted to KLR for overseas duties

Ady
Title: Re: The Kings Liverpool Regiment
Post by: ike on Monday 18 February 08 19:27 GMT (UK)
thank you i will copy all this down for my records.
Title: Re: The Kings Liverpool Regiment
Post by: mmm45 on Monday 18 February 08 19:31 GMT (UK)
http://www.1914-1918.net/Diaries/wardiary-18liv.htm

Ike this should top it off for you it covers his battalions movements prior to him falling in action near Hooge

They were the 2nd Liverpool Pals and theres a book on them

Ady
Title: Re: The Kings Liverpool Regiment
Post by: ike on Monday 18 February 08 20:36 GMT (UK)
thanks was going to send a copy of his cert but cannt do it on personal message
Title: Re: The Kings Liverpool Regiment
Post by: ike on Tuesday 19 February 08 09:04 GMT (UK)
thanks for all you have done to sort things out,   would he have been east or west yorkshire or just yorkshire.
Title: Re: The Kings Liverpool Regiment
Post by: mmm45 on Tuesday 19 February 08 16:32 GMT (UK)
Hi Ike
It looks as though he was in the Yorkshire Regiment more commonly known as "Green Howards" my great uncle was KIA with the 6th Batt Yorks Reg in 1917.

Your Grandad being from Middlesborough it would be his local Regiment their HQ been at Richmond.

Ady