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Research in Other Countries => Canada Lookup Request => Canada => Canada Lookup Requests Completed => Topic started by: geniecolgan on Saturday 02 February 08 07:01 GMT (UK)
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Hi Everyone :)
I am trying to trace the family history of William Woods from a few facts and the childhood memories of an orphan as told to his son. The start of his story is very sad and there is little to go on so any help would be appreciated.
From Willie’s memories:-
He “came to Canada on a boat with his parents, his brother James and possibly a younger sister”.
He was “at his mother’s graveside funeral before he and his brother were given away by his father” :'(
He was “picked out of a line-up at the orphanage by his adoptive father”.
Facts:-
Willie and his brother James were at the Loyal True Blue Orphanage, near Picton, Ontario.
James Woods was about two years younger than Willie and was never adopted.
In 1910 Willie Woods was sent by train with a label pinned to him saying he was Master Willie Woods, being sent to Mr. Henry Thistlethwaite, Norwood, Ontario.
He is on the 1911 census, living with the Thistlethwaites, as adopted son, Wilfred W. Wood, age 9.
His adoptive family renamed the lad Wilfred Ernest Thistlethwaite and he was raised as their natural son.
He died in his 90’s and was survived by his wife and children.
In 1964 when Willie was applying for his old age pension he contacted The Loyal True Blue & Orange home in Richmond Hill, Ontario to try and establish his proof of age.
According to their records:-
Registered as - William Woods.
Date of Birth - Jan 1 1901.
Place of Birth - Wales.
Date of Admission to the Home – Sept 19 1907.
Former Residence – Nipigon, Ontario.
Father – Charles Woods, Nipigon, Ontario
Mother – Deceased.
Date of Discharge – Mar 19 1910.
Adopted by – Mr. Henry Thistlethwaite, Norwood, Ontario.
All leads welcomed.
Thanks,
Genie
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Hi Genie on www.freebmd.org.uk there is a birth at Newport (Wales) in the March Qtr 1901 that might just be him, with these details you can purchase the certificate.. Also he should be on the 1901 census, if you can get someone to do a look-up for you.
Happy Hunting
Shirley
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HI Genie,
So, perhaps we should be looking for a death of a female Woods in the Nipigon area in 1907.
There is quite a distance between Nipigon and Picton :-\
Do they know what happened to the brother James at all?
Karen
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Hi Genie,
This may be a tough one with the limited information about the parents.
Nipigon is in the Thunder Bay District. As Karen said, this is a fair distance from Picton. There are a few Charles WOODS living there in 1911. Probably the most interesting is one living with his brother John and family. Still no conformation that this is him.
I searched for a death of a female WOODS in the area of Thunder Bay / Rainy River, still nothing seemed to fit.
Back in Wales, I searched for two brothers born in the same area that may fit. I came up with this:
James Woods 1902 Apr-Jun Merthyr Tydfil Breconshire, Glamorgan, Mid Glamorgan
William Woods 1900 Jan-Mar Merthyr Tydfil Breconshire, Glamorgan, Mid Glamorgan
When going to the 1901 Wales Census, the parents names were John & Johanna. Still no fit?
James WOODS went on to marry on 4 Dec 1922 to Maudie Garton in York. Sadly, he could not list his parents.
I imagine you alreadly have Wilfreds marriage on 9 Feb 1923 in Peterborough to Alberta Kelly. If not, let me know and I will pass on the info.
If you can add any further information to the puzzle, that may help. I searched the passender lists and could not find any WOODS with a Charles, James and William listed together. Any chance the father used a middle name?
Hope that hepls in some way,
Nancy
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Shoot, Archives Canada is down for the day :(
Karen
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Hello you lovely people :)
I'm doing this for my friend, the son of Willie and I've checked with him for any additional background but there is nothing he can add except that Willie & James did stay in contact.
James was placed with the Thistlethwaites sometime after Willie but he ran away. Then he went back to the orphanage until he was of age to be independent.
Hi Shirley,
thanks for the BMD ref. I have looked and found 4 possible Welsh Williams in the time frame so we are not ready to buy a cert. yet :-\
Hi Karen,
Yeah, I wondered about Nipigon myself :-\ .... it's a long way from Picton. In fact in those days I don't think there was much around Nipigon at all. Why would a man take his wife and children there ???
It crossed my mind that the boys were sent to Picton because that was where there was space for the kids at that time :-\
Finding the death reg. of the mother would be a great help.
Perhaps they were on their way out west and she got ill and died :o ..... or.... from what Nancy has found.... it may be that Charles had family in that area.
Tis a great puzzle ::)
Hi Nancy :)
thanks for the info on the marriages. I didn't have them and they add nicely to the picture. Yes please ;D...... send me the details you found.The rest of it is tough indeed >:(
If we could just find them on a boat or find the mother's death we'd have something to work on.
I'm going to copy this and go over it with Willie's son.
Thanks very much guys. You're great :-*
Genie
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Hi Genie,
Here's the marriage info:
James Woods
Born: On (?????)
Age: 20
Father: Woods
Mother: Woods
Spouse: Maudie Garton
Age: 20
Birth Place: England
Father: George Brooks
Mother: Beatrice Garton
Marriage: 4 Dec 1922
Place: York
County: York
***** Did you have the Brides name prior to today as the birth location does not match?
___________________________
Wilfred E Thistlethwaite
Born: England
Age: 22
Father: Henry A Thistlethwaite
Mother: Amelia Jane Lobb
Spouse: Alberta Kelly
Age: 17
Born: Ontario
Father: Frank Kelly
Mother: Sarah Derbyshire
Marriage: 9 Feb 1923
Place: Peterborough
County: Peterborough
District: Peterboro
Hope that helps,
Nancy
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Hi Nancy,
Good stuff ;D
The marriage info helps because it shows that James was about 2 years younger than Willie.
I didn't have the brides names and I will run through all this with Roger, Willie's son, ASAP to make sure we have the right ones.
Just wish we could find their mum's death. That might confirm that the orphanage info was correct if she died in the Nipigon area.
Can anyone tell me what there was in and around Nipigon 1905 - 1907, other than a railway stop ???
It still boggles my mind to think of those poor kids being shipped about like that.
Any more input welcome and thanks again.
Genie ;D ;D
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Can anyone tell me what there was in and around Nipigon 1905 - 1907, other than a railway stop ???
Not even a Tim Horton's, how barbaric ;D
Karen
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Hi Genie,
Nipigon was famous for it's fishing and still is today. It looks like the main industry in the area at the turn of the century was the logging industry and a paper/pulp mill. And despite it not being mentioned when I did a history lookup, there is always the furrier industry. The Hudson Bay company employed a lot of people to purchase pelts from.
Nancy
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Hi Everyone,
Update
I've just been on the phone with Willie's son and I think I've convinced him to join us on here :D :D :D
It seems that Nancy has tracked down Willie's first wife :)
..... but more sad news.... she died in childbirth :'( :'( :'(
More to come tomorrow when, I hope, Roger joins us.
You are all so good, He's is most impressed :D
Genie
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Death Registration for:
Alberta Thistlewaite
Place of Death: Weston Hosptial
Age: 22 years
Place of Birth: Ontario
Father: ....... Kelly, born England
Mother: ........Derbyshire, England
Informant: Wilford E. Thistlewaite
Address: 334 Dufferin Street
Place of Burial: Norwood, Ontario
Date of Death: August 3, 1928
Primary Cause of Death: Broncho Pneumonia
Did an Operation precede Death: Difficult Labour, breach extraction (?)
Reg. NO. 005697
Karen
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That's her Karen :D
Apparently she had huge babies.... ouch :o
...and the last one killed her :'(
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Death Registration for:
Baby Thistlethwaite
Male
Weston Hospital
Date of Birth: July 27, 1928
Father: Wilford Thistlethwaite, born Canada
Mother: Alberta Kelly, born Ontario
Informant: Wilford Thistlethwaite, 334 Dufferin Street
Place of Burial: Prospect Cemetery
Cause of Death: Prematurity
Date of Death: July 28, 1928
Reg. No. 005306
Karen
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Yes!!!
Another hit :D
Boy oh boy.
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Border crossing for Wilford, May 14, 1929, Lewiston Crossing
Accompianied by 1/2 sister Helen, age 20
AGe: 28 years
Occupation: Truck Driver
Place of Birth: Norwood, Ontario
Race: England
Destination: Buffalo, New York
Going to Join Uncle John Anderson, 72 Alban Street
Purpose of Coming: Visit, one month
Height: 5'6"
Complexion: Dark
Hair: Brown
Eyes: Gr.
Father: Henry, Norwood, Ontario
Karen
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He also crossed over at Lewiston in 1922, occupation farm lab., mother Mrs. Henry Thistlethwaite, destination Rochester, New York, he is 21 years old.
Karen
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It's nice to see that the two boys were able to stay in touch and were even living together in the 1920's.
The address shown on the death of Willie's wife, 334 Dufferin St., is where James was living in 1922 when he was married.
Lesley
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National Archives Canada is still down but a search on findmypast gave at least two possibilities. I couldn't check them as I don't have a membership but the best choices for a search on a Charles Wood, travelling with a William Wood between the years 1903 (when James was born) and 1907 when we know the mother died in Canada were:
Charles Wood age 24 arrived 1904 from Liverpool to St. John N.B.
Charles Wood age 30 arrived 1904 from Liverpool to St. John N.B.
Hopefully the National Archives site will be up again soon so we can check the lists.
dollylee
* ignore this post please............neither of these would be right
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Could this family work?? ???
1901 Wales Census, Bridgend, Glamorgan
Charles Wood 41 Head Painter born Barrow in Furness Lancs
Kate Wood 39 Wife born Glamorgan Cowbridge
Henry Wood 6 Son born Edinburgh
William Wood 8mths Son born Glamorgan Cowbridge
William Wood birth registered in Bridgend Sept qtr 1900.
James Wood birth registered in Bridgend March qtr 1903.
Lesley
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Wow! Lesley..... they certainly look most promising.
If that is them, I wonder waht happened to Henry?
Yet another good lead.
Thanks.
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Charles Wood 41 Head Painter born Barrow in Furness Lancs
Kate Wood 39 Wife born Glamorgan Cowbridge
Henry Wood 6 Son born Edinburgh
William Wood 8mths Son born Glamorgan Cowbridge
That's quite a mix of locations. Charles from Lancashire, Kate & William from Wales and Henry from Edinburgh, Scotland?
I would think that the location for Henry is incorrect if this is the family. He was probably born in Eglwysilan which borders Glamorgan and Monmouthshire. It's the only parish that would fit unless the family moved around a lot? If this is a transcrition error, than the only birth I found that may fit is:
Births Sep 1894, Woods Archibald Henry Cardiff 11a 391
I could not find a death that fits this individual.
Nancy
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In 1964 when Willie was applying for his old age pension he contacted The Loyal True Blue & Orange home in Richmond Hill, Ontario to try and establish his proof of age.
According to their records:-
Registered as - William Woods.
Date of Birth - Jan 1 1901.
Place of Birth - Wales.
Date of Admission to the Home – Sept 19 1907.
Former Residence – Nipigon, Ontario.
Father – Charles Woods, Nipigon, Ontario
Mother – Deceased.
Date of Discharge – Mar 19 1910.
Adopted by – Mr. Henry Thistlethwaite, Norwood, Ontario.
I may have found a possible death for the mother but it doesn't quite fit the above data:
Name: Edith Wood
Died: 29 Oct 1907
Location: York
Gender: Female
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1884
Birth Location: England
Address: 612 Wellington Ave (Very Poor Image-address may be incorrect?)
Occupation: Housewife
Informant: Charles Wood
Cause: Mitral Stenosis-Edema Lungs - 10 Days
If this is correct, the children were given up prior to their mothers death? There is a chance that Edith became ill and the Doctors told Charles that she would not survive. Preparing for the worst, he may have arranged their care prior to her death. This is all speculation though?
Nancy
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Update:
It looks like the above is probably incorrect. I found a child born linked to the death:
William Charles Wood
Birth: 30 Sep 1907
Gender: Male
County: York
Father: Charles George A Wood
Mother: Edith Underhin (Andrews crossed out)
Address: 612 Wellington Ave
Occupation: Labourer
***** I doub't that Charles would have named two children William.
Nancy
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If this is correct, the children were given up prior to their mothers death? There is a chance that Edith became ill and the Doctors told Charles that she would not survive. Preparing for the worst, he may have arranged their care prior to her death. This is all speculation though?
Nancy
Oh dear! that's an unpleasant thought but possible I suppose.
You know ... I still can't figure out how Nipigon comes into the picture :-\
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Hmmm ...... the more details we see on that one Nancy, the more doubtful it becomes.
As you say, they wouldn't have had two sons named William :-\
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Not totally caught up on this thread, but saw that William became Wiford...when adopted...
Could the boy's name have been Wilfred William or William Wifred? Is it normal
to change a forename when adopting a child who is already named? I am wondering
if the nickname Willie might have been used, and the home perhaps thought it short for William...
more pure speculation...but stranger things have happened.... ;D J.J.
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Hi JJ,
Willie was married under the name of Wilfred Ernest Thistlethwaite.
He was always know as Willie to his brother James and his children.
Genie
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Sorry, I was going by the Wilfred W. Wood entry on the 1911...( can't see the split view) Just thought it odd that he would be listed with his old surname but a new forename...
There's this freeBMD entry as well...but the date doesn't match...
Births June Q. 1901
Willie John Woods
Pontypridd vol.11a p.666
There's also a Willie Ernest Woods...but born in England.
Boy, finding the mother's death would surely open this one up... There's no telling which information is correct even if it is on a document...ie. Charles may have said Wales as being his own place of birth. Was anyone able to compare the information left at the Picton Orphange for James?
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Boy, finding the mother's death would surely open this one up... There's no telling which information is correct even if it is on a document...ie. Charles may have said Wales as being his own place of birth. Was anyone able to compare the information left at the Picton Orphange for James?
Hi J.J.,
By the time Willie started to try and prove his age, the orphanage in Picton was long closed and the records , such as they were, had been moved to the Richmond Hill Home.
We have no infomation on James and contact has been lost with his family since Willies death.
The story goes that, from the time of his adoption and renaming, Willie chose his own birth date but this was from his childhood remembrances so is not ironclad.
So, you are right, finding his mother's death would open this tough one.
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atth2o
Would it be possible for you to check the 1901 Census for Wales looking for:
George Charles Woods who would be married to either Ada Adeline Davies
or Emily Porter…………George Charles married one of them July, Aug.,
Sept. 1892. He was married in Cardiff, Glamorgan, Monmouthshire.
Hopefully they have a son William George Woods b. 1901 Jan. - Mar. Newport M, Glamorgan Gwent, Monmouthshire.
And with a miracle they then had another son James, hopped on a boat and
came to Canada.
dollylee
Genie I got an email back from the Thunder Bay Genweb and the lady there said she would check for any information they have in Nipigon for Charles Woods including his wife and family. I think the cemeteries have been checked but she is going to do that again.
dollylee
** please forgive me if this George has been checked before I have read this post so many times I am not even seeing the words anymore ;D
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dolly,
thanks for that :) At this point I'm stalled :-\
Hope the Thunder Bay lady finds something.
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Hi
I am Willys son, my friend Genie posted details of my father as we have them.
I want to thank everyone who has so far found info.
We have never had any documentation before and this is very helpful, it makes it seem so real to see these things.
It seems you have the right man.
The marriage certificate for him to Alberta Kelly is correct. He was married twice, Alberta his first died in child birth.
His second wife was Helen Bowman of Toronto.
The big problem has always been finding records of his birth in what we have always been given to understand as Wales.
The marriage certificate for his brother is also correct.
James Woods married Maud in toronto.
The certificate was reversed by the clerk I guess, at the time.
It shows his wife being born in England and James Woods as being born in Toronto and it should be the other way around.
The only info we have states that they were actually born in Wales?
Willlys son.
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Hi Willys Son ;D
so glad you could join us and welcome to RootsChat.
Everyone has done very well thus far and with you on board..... who knows..... we may eventually find your Gt. Granny :)
Genie
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Hello Willy's son, pleased to meet you.
What about the younger sister? Any thoughts at all what may have happened to her?
Karen
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Hi Karen
Thanks you so much for this.
The sister was purely a memory on the part of my father.
He told me in his words that he always thought he could remember a sister which may have come over with them as a tiny baby and might have been born in Canada.
Unfortunately this was always only a vague memory and he could never be certain and did not know a name if she ever existed.
As so often happens in families even though my father and his brother kept contact they did not get along and were never close.
My Uncle Jim died while I was fairly young. I was probably about 20 something.
During the limited communication with his daughters (he had 4) we never discussed history and I don't think they had any interest.
My father was so bitter against his Dad for putting him in an orphanage that I couldn't talk to him about it.
He remained bitter until he died and it was tremendously emotional for him to even think about it.
Thank you.
Willys son
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;D welcome, willys son !!!!!! ;D
Oh, boy...posting went boing again...seems to happen when others post at same time...I forget to hit shift for a new page so that won't happen...(almost happened again but I was smarter this time...)
To make a long story short then, I found the home ( first I looked through all the Picton transcriptions... but then got smart & googled)
so from Olive Tree.... transcriptions of 1901 census... I got the proper district to look through....Hallowell
but no James to be found in there at the time of the 1911....
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SplitView.jsp?id=133642
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SplitView.jsp?id=133643
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O.K. I wasn't smart at all, because I quickly copied, but didn't get it all... so the actual information was cut out...the links now on page above... I also had a head count of 27 I think on first page alone...second page 37...so a lot of children with few adults!
:-\
here's the Olive Tree site complete with images of the facility from the era
http://www.rootsweb.com/~ote/orphans/loyal-true-blue-orphanage.htm
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while looking through the area, noticed some fostered children, so he might have been fostered out....?
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Arghh! You just missed Willys Son J.J. :(
He's new to forums and doesn't have broadband but I know we'll all be gentle with him ;D
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:P He just needs to look at my messed up postings and laugh... :P
yes, genie...we could scare him away with all of this speculation...but we have often brought some things to light while doing just that...
We like to gig, dig, dig!
Still listening ( & hoping) for the sound of metal.... :D ;) J.J.
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J.J.
I'm sure he'll catch on ;D
In the meantime, speculation is good..... as long as you don't have money on it ;D
Keep diggin ;D
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So, what years would we guess Charles and his wife were born c1878 +/- 5 years :-\
I'm wondering if Charles maybe went to war when it broke out?
Also, I'm stiff confused over the Nipigon/Nippising that's allot of land in between.
Karen
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Looking at the Nipigon 1911 census compared to the 1901, so many names that are all new ten years later...was there a border crossing there, or a military base or something? J.J.
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Well you would cross over into Minnisota, ya ;D International Falls, MN
Karen :)
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atth2o
Would it be possible for you to check the 1901 Census for Wales looking for:
George Charles Woods who would be married to either Ada Adeline Davies
or Emily Porter…………George Charles married one of them July, Aug.,
Sept. 1892. He was married in Cardiff, Glamorgan, Monmouthshire.
Hopefully they have a son William George Woods b. 1901 Jan. - Mar. Newport M, Glamorgan Gwent, Monmouthshire.
And with a miracle they then had another son James, hopped on a boat and
came to Canada.
dollylee
Hi All,
Checked the census with no luck on this one. Checked both WOOD & WOODS.
All the Charles & Georges married to Ada, Adeline or Emily. Even checked all the William's to make sure there were no parents missing. Can't seem to link those names together. :-[
Hello Willie's Son,
Glad you could make it on the list and that the marriages fit. Transcription errors do happen so anything you can remember will be helpful. Any idea of an occupation that your grand father may have had? Little tid bits can help in possibly ruling out an individual (or ruling them in?).
If we all work at this long enough, we'll find your family for you. :D
Nancy
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Could this family work?? ???
1901 Wales Census, Bridgend, Glamorgan
Charles Wood 41 Head Painter born Barrow in Furness Lancs
Kate Wood 39 Wife born Glamorgan Cowbridge
Henry Wood 6 Son born Edinburgh
William Wood 8mths Son born Glamorgan Cowbridge
William Wood birth registered in Bridgend Sept qtr 1900.
James Wood birth registered in Bridgend March qtr 1903.
Lesley
Hello All,
I think this one that Lesley found could be promising so I'm moving it forward for reference.
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Hi All,
I just checked all the WOOD/WOODS births in Ontario 1903-1907 for girls possibly born here. I than checked the mothers names for a death in case she was registered under her maiden name. No luck :-[
Nancy
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I also checked the Border crossings and found this one but can't seem to find a census to match this family?
Name: Charles A Wood
Arrival Date: Apr 1910
Age: 37
Birth Date: abt 1873
Birth Country: Wales
Gender: Male
Race/Nationality: Welsh
Port of Arrival: Buffalo, USA
Married,
Residence: Hamilton,
Notes: (Wife) Elizabeth Wood, #64, Moorland Road, Cardiff, Wales,
To Cleveland, Ohio
Could be a clue but could also mean nothing. ???
Nancy
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There a Charles Woods born 1884 in England, living out in New Westminister, BC in the 1911. He gives his year of immigration as 1904 :-\
Karen
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We seem up to our necks in Charlies so what's one more?
Charles WOOD , 29 , widower , millwright , from Woodstock , s/o Amos WOOD & Mary COLL , married Francis Jeannette PRUEW , 23 , from Woodstock , d/o William PRUEW & Hannah LEE , witn: H.V. GOSLING & Annie PRUEW from Woodstock , 9 Sept 1908 at Woodstock. Oxford County
Charles is found on the 1881 English census as born 1880 in Bradford, York, England .
He is about the right age and a widower.....but Woodstock?? And this certainly doesn't help us find William's mother.
dollylee
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Hello
Just a thought. Could his wife have been unhappy living in the wilderness and left him and the boys to return to Wales? Forget this reread thread and she was marked deceased on Orphanage files. Maybe the husband remarried and the second wife did not want to look after the kids. I will see if I can find a possible marriage for Charles & Elizabeth.
That might work then for :
I also checked the Border crossings and found this one but can't seem to find a census to match this family?
Name: Charles A Wood
Arrival Date: Apr 1910
Age: 37
Birth Date: abt 1873
Birth Country: Wales
Gender: Male
Race/Nationality: Welsh
Port of Arrival: Buffalo, USA
Married,
Residence: Hamilton,
Notes: (Wife) Elizabeth Wood, #64, Moorland Road, Cardiff, Wales,
To Cleveland, Ohio
Linda
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Has the brother James been found on the 1911 census? I can't seem to find a match in the Picton area which is where the Loyal True Blue Orphanage is? I can find a possible match in the Sacred Heart Orphanage:
District: Toronto West
District Number: 128
Sub-District: Ward 6
Sub-District Number: 95
Place of Habitation: 1830 Queen H W
If this is where the brother is, there is a Anna Woods listed with him?
Genie, Can you verify if you have the census please. If you have it, can you please post it. Thank you
Nancy
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1911 Sacred Heart Orphanage
James Woods age 5 born 1906 Ontario
Anna Woods age 7 born 1904 Ontario
Both are Roman Catholic, and of Irish decent.
Lesley
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1911 Sacred Heart Orphanage
James Woods age 5 born 1906 Ontario
Anna Woods age 7 born 1904 Ontario
Both are Roman Catholic, and of Irish decent.
Lesley
You wouldn't think the father would take them to The Loyal True Blue Orphange run by the Orange order if they were Irish Catholic :o
Karen
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Here is a Charles Albert Wood, born Cardiff, Wales 1874 who signed up in Montreal, PQ and his next of kin is a friend :-\
http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc018/680887a.gif
http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc018/680887b.gif
K
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Going with that border crossing, there is a marriage for
Charles Albert H Wood and Clara Elizabeth Betts in Cardiff in 1900
K
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Hi Everyone,
I may be wrong, but I really do think the boys were born in Wales. Apparently Old Willie was sure of that.
I wouldn't think they were Catholic either, as I'm thinking the same as Karen about the Loyal True Blue home.
Lots good of things to think about. Did Charlie go to war or cross the border?
Willys Son certainly has a lot to read when he get back on here ;D ;D ;D
I'm going to his place tomorrow to give him some pointers and coach a bit :o .... that should get him confused ;D
Good stuff guys ;)
Genie
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Hi, Nancy..still no James found..and the orphanage posting for the 1911 census is back here I'll link to the reply....and it was a protestant run facility...all were listed as Anglican...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,283110.msg1669958.html#msg1669958
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Nancy,
I only have the 1911 census for Willie, no James yet.
P.S.
Here's the link
http://www.rootschat.com/links/02o3/
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and oh...why not one more....as this one ( b. march 22 1874....) was living in Rainy River at time of signup and is from Clarence Ont.
gives sister Annie Heatherington / Ottawa as NOK. Signed up in Pinewood, Ont. The child Willie was noted as being born Wales...but we need to be open minded about all other possibilities for places of birth for the parents etc... so just in case something fits....
http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc018/687720a.gif
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well, may have proven myself wrong, in 1881 there's only one listed in Clarence & he's Irish as well, and actually born 1871...No Annie in household though... :P
J.J.
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I think we really won't crack this unless you go back to the home and ask about James' records as well.
http://my.tbaytel.net/tbayogs/index.html - you could try the Thunder Bay genealogical society. They say "Newspaper and burial indexes will be searched for free."
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I have contacted them already jorose. They are to look for any evidence of Charles Wood and family living in the area. They are also looking for deaths and checking cemetery records for a ____ Wood/Woods as we don't have her first or maiden name.
They are also checking to see if Charles Wood was an informate in any deaths, as well as any Newpaper articles or obituaries. It has been two days now but over a weekend for us so I am still hoping she will reply.
If not I will get back to her again.
dollylee
** I have contacted the Thunder Bay genealogicay society, but NOT the home as somewhere in this thread it was closed.
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Also, for what it's worth (and it may be nothing) I found a Charles Wood in the 1881 British Census who could be of the right age. It was the same Charles Wood as in the marriage of the 29 year old widower I had listed above. In 1911 he is working as a Millwright at a Hydro Electric Company in Woodstock. Nipigon also has a large Hydro Electric System so there may be some connection.
This Charles Wood was born in England and had an older brother Fred/Frederick who may possibly be the same one who can be found on the 1911 Canada Census as being found in the Thunder Bay/Rainy River District living in Port Arthur which became part of the City of Thunder Bay. I am unable to read his occupation on the Census. Nor really read the time of immigration altho I think it sas 1897.
None of this of course helps us find out the mother's name unless the Thunder Bay Society finds some information.
All it may support is that Fred is in fact the brother of the Charles remarried in Woodstock
as a widower age 29 in 1908 . It does nothing to point this to the Charles we are looking for other than the possible Hydro Electric connection which might have placed him the Nipigon in 1907.
If only Charles had listed the mother's name rather than just saying she was deceased on the orphanage papers....and there is also the possibility that not all the information given was correct.
dollylee
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Well hopefully Genie will go over to Willy's son house today and we will get some little tidbit.
Genie, you'll have to invite Willy's son to our meet again in August, same time same place ;D
Karen
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Border crossing for Wilford, May 14, 1929, Lewiston Crossing
Accompanied by 1/2 sister Helen, age 20
AGe: 28 years
Occupation: Truck Driver
Place of Birth: Norwood, Ontario
Race: England
Destination: Buffalo, New York
Going to Join Uncle John Anderson, 72 Alban Street
Purpose of Coming: Visit, one month
Height: 5'6"
Complexion: Dark
Hair: Brown
Eyes: Gr.
Father: Henry, Norwood, Ontario
Karen
Hi Karen
First thanks for all the work your doing.
You are really turning up good facts.
Notation says accompanied by half sister Helen that is in fact my Mother. She was Helen Bowman and as far as I know or am actually finding out she ran away with my Dad when she was 15.
This may have been a lie they told the border crossing to get thru.
She was born Feb 6 1914.
There is a reference to going to visit an Uncle John Anderson who is someone I have never heard of, but will check with my older sister and see if she knows of him.
Roger ;D
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Hi Genie,
Here's the marriage info:
James Woods
Born: On (?????)
Age: 20
Father: Woods
Mother: Woods
Spouse: Maudie Garton
Age: 20
Birth Place: England
Father: George Brooks
Mother: Beatrice Garton
Marriage: 4 Dec 1922
Place: York
County: York
***** Did you have the Brides name prior to today as the birth location does not match?
___________________________
Wilfred E Thistlethwaite
Born: England
Age: 22
Father: Henry A Thistlethwaite
Mother: Amelia Jane Lobb
Spouse: Alberta Kelly
Age: 17
Born: Ontario
Father: Frank Kelly
Mother: Sarah Derbyshire
Marriage: 9 Feb 1923
Place: Peterborough
County: Peterborough
District: Peterboro
Hope that helps,
Nancy
Hi Nancy
Once again thanks for all this.
The reference to James marrying Maudie Garton is correct but the birth places have been reversed by the Clerk I believe.
Maudie was born in Ontario and was the daughter of the family living at 334 Dufferin where James and my Dad lived with his first wife as roomers and James was born in England (Wales).
All of the details of my father's first marriage to Alberta Kelly are correct other than his birth place which is shown as England.
I suppose the clerk put that or my father may have said that rather than trying to explain Wales.
Roger
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HI Roger,
Where was Helen Bowman born?
Karen
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Also, for what it's worth (and it may be nothing) I found a Charles Wood in the 1881 British Census who could be of the right age. It was the same Charles Wood as in the marriage of the 29 year old widower I had listed above. In 1911 he is working as a Millwright at a Hydro Electric Company in Woodstock. Nipigon also has a large Hydro Electric System so there may be some connection.......
dollylee
Good shot.
I think all in this posting makes a lot of sense.
If my grandfather was widowed in 1907 he could certainly have remarried in 1908 and I often wondered why the different place like Nippigon. If he had a relative (brother) living there this could explain why going that far.
Thanks for your efforts, seem to be a good lead.
Roger
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Hi Karen
My mother was born on Brock Avenue in Toronto.
Her Mother was Annie Bowman and father Ed Bowman.
We have a birth certificate for this.
Just don't have it on hand.
My main interest is trying to get info on Dad's history prior to going intro the orphanage.
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I was just curious as I have Bowman's in my tree, my grandma was a Bowman :) (she was born in Guelph)
Karen
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On that Charles Wood marriage in Woodstock that Dolly found, Charles lists his parents as Amos Wood and Mary Coll, but when you look at the census he, Charles is with his parents in 1881, 91 and 01, but the mother's name is Rhoda on the census and there is a marriage in Bradford, Yorks of Amos Wood and Rhoda Muff in 1868.
Karen
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Hi Dollylee & all...
There is a birth ( unlisted source) on the IGI - for an Emma Hannah Wood to Amos E Wood and Mary Anne Coll in Oxford Ontario...in 1869....
and there doesn't seem to be a marriage for that couple in England...
However as you've noted, no other Charles Wood come up under head of household as Amos...(no Emmas either-sheesh) ( in 1881)
This doesn't take away from your find, though...re: Hydro work, as that makes lots of sense.... & you never know, Charles might still have been born Canada, but married and had children in Wales
I do perhaps see Amos E. ( Woods) in 1901, widowed with only parents (WENTWORTH & BRANT N.) but no sign of same in 1881...
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census/ViewFrame.jsp?id=109393&highlight=18
I second the motion that mother's name should have been put on the document...My hubby's grandfather was just as forthcoming with his own father's name..it was listed as "dead"...
Ahhhhh, but then would we be having all this fun? ::) J.J.
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Hi, Willy's son et al...
Did anyone ever see this publication called "Lobb Family" ?
Listed as a publication under the name Thistlethwaite...there is some information listed under Wilfred, but likely all that you have already, but you never know if there may be some little extra thing of note...
http://www.ogs.on.ca/ogspi/160/e160t009.htm
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Hello
There is this birth, which would be not to far from Picton. Aggie could be known as Kate.
Cora Viola Woods
Born September 19, 1905 in Northumberland County
Parents: Charles A Woods & Aggie Kerr
(This looks like the same Charles found by Nancy in border crossings of 1910 and he was Welsh, so if one and the same, this birth puts him with his earlier wife near Picton and the Orphanage)
So far, I have not found an Ontario marriage for Charles Woods and Aggie Kerr, could it be in Wales or England?
I think it may be a good possibility for a sister. Willy remembers something of a sister. Being at a grave for his mother, then taken to an orphanage. He mentions a train ride to the adopted parents. There wasn't a mention of a long train ride to the orphanage, so the family could have been near Picton at the time. Maybe Charles and family were on route to Nipigon as their final destination.
Linda
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For those searching for a death...Aggie could also be a nickname for either Agnes or Agatha...J.J.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nevermind...Good thought but...here is Aggie with Chas. A Woods & 2 children...in 1911
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/View.jsp?id=138213&desc=1911
The Charles also says born Ontario...
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SplitView.jsp?id=138212
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At this point could we just pause for a minute and state what information we KNOW to be true? Have we been able to verify any of the information we have?
dollylee
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I sure didn't mean for the above post to sound negative. I am sure we are all going cross eyed trying to chase all these Charlie's around and it's getting confusing keeping track of all or which ones we have checked out.
I got a reply from the Thunder Bay Genweb lady and I was surprised to find that she didn't have the actual transcripts from the cemeteries. She only had the one that I had already checked on-line but she did remind me that most lists are headstone inscriptions so if there is no headstone there is no record. She also checked death records in the time frame but there was nothing although she said deaths often went unrecorded.
So I am sorry willys son we seem to have hit another dead-end.
dollylee
Having said all that has anyone checked out William Wilfred Woods 4 months old, born Lambeth, Administrative District: London, Civil: Lambeth out on the 1901 UK Census?? I don't have access but the Wilfred and age made me curious.
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I checked the 1901 for William Wilfred Woods age 4 months. His parents were Henry George and Jessie Woods. Too bad cuz the name and age were perfect!
I also checked the Canadian Border Crossings again. I found a Charles Wood born 1861 trying to enter the US in 1915 at Niagara Falls. He is a widower, born in England, and has no relatives in Canada. His occupation is plasterer. He was not allowed to enter the US, it doesn't say why.
The details for this Charles seem to fit with the family that was in Bridgend Wales in 1901. On that census Charles was born about 1860/61 and was a painter. I have had many ancestors who changed back and forth every ten yrs between plasterer and painter.
Still can't find any matching deaths though.
Lesley
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I also checked the Canadian Border Crossings again. I found a Charles Wood born 1861 trying to enter the US in 1915 at Niagara Falls. He is a widower, born in England, and has no relatives in Canada. His occupation is plasterer. He was not allowed to enter the US, it doesn't say why.
The details for this Charles seem to fit with the family that was in Bridgend Wales in 1901. On that census Charles was born about 1860/61 and was a painter. I have had many ancestors who changed back and forth every ten yrs between plasterer and painter.
Still can't find any matching deaths though.
Lesley
Lesley,
that border crossing attempt looks pretty good.
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Hi
J.J. asked me to join the hunt too :)
I've found a possible trio crossing in 1906 which could fit the Bridgend family:
27 September 1906
Liverpool to Quebec - Ship: Kensington, Dominion Line
Kate Wood, 30, wife
William Wood, 6
John Wood, 2
Unfortunately, I can't find Charles - maybe he went before - and Kate's age is a little less.
Gadget
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Good for you Gadget !!! What resource were you using because they sure aren't listed on findmypast....and it's a nightmare to scroll through the hundreds of non transcribed lists held at the National Archives of Canada.
Really well done.
dollylee
sure seems like they are the likely couple....let's hope we can find more information on them now.
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Good for you Gadget !!! What resource were you using because they sure aren't listed on findmypast....
dollylee
They sure are Dolly ;D ;D ;D
Gadget
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I see that on the 1901 census, son Henry, aged 6, was born Edinburgh. I'll go check for a birth/marriage up there.
Gadget :)
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are you serious??? I have checked that damn thing every which way from Sunday...just did it again....I must be blind.
There are a couple of WOOD M no age coming the same route in 1905 (where is my memory when I need it?) but unless he was in for a suprise with little James he had to have been with her until about mid year 1903 more or less for conception which could have him leaving sometime after 1903....Right?? don't shut me down again ;D ;D
dollylee
p.s. just found them on the untranscribed index at the National Archives....it must be your Welsh blood....you are like a bloodhound lmao
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This 1901 family look as if they have been around a bit ::) The house seems to also be a lodging house. I can't find a good match for Charles in Eng or Wales or Scotland on the 1891 :-\
Gadget :)
-
Here is the link to the original:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/02oh/
It does say she is going to meet her husband but a lot of the rest of it is kind of blobby.
re your last post............see what we have been going through??? lol Is it possible to do a marriage search with just the wife's first name?? Although, at this point we can't be sure his first name is really Charles now can we?
dollylee
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Oh and Hi Gadget....haven't "seen" you for awhile.
dollylee
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Hi Dolly
It does look as if I've stumbled on possibly the right family. The ships list image on FindMyPast didn't have a separate category for Wales - just lumped them with England (my Welsh blood boiling ::) ) but yours has them as Wales! Same ones though :D
I think that we'd have to go through all the Wood and Woods to find a marriage. Not up with Canadian BMDs - can you find a death for a Kate/Catherine/Katherine Wood(s) around that time?
Gadget
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WE sure can but Canada didn't seem all the interested whether you reported a death or not. Might take a while as there is no really comprehensive site.
If you have a membership to findmypast could you check out:
Wood Charles H. 35 M 1904 Liverpool to Quebec and view the image?
If not I can start trolling through the non transcribed versions.
This last visit to findmypast I realized I was looking for WoodS....it seems to go either way on this post.
dollylee
Thanks again for getting us going somewhere with this !!!
-
It's 4:15 a.m. here and I am losing steam...I forgot to tell you we have been looking for a death of a "generic" female woods in the right time frame and have not been able to find anything yet. Hope the first name helps.
-
I'll take a look. I checked Wood and Woods right from the start :)
I thought that you must be up early for Canada, Dolly - I remember the Rosemarie days :D :D :D
Gadget
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The 1904 one has him as single and a farmer. Don't think that's him somehow :-\
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Not up Early....up LATE...........hubby's golfing in Mexico so I am taking advantage of the added computer time ;D ;D
dollylee
If you have read the whole thread you will see that we have Charles Wood/s coming out of the Woodwork (no pun).....you may have just found another to add to our collection.
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There's a Charles A Wood, labourer, aged 39, Steerage
17 April 1902, Liverpool to Quebec (Montreal) , Ship Parisian, Allan Line
On his own :-\
Gadget
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Hello
There is this birth, which would be not to far from Picton. Aggie could be known as Kate.
Cora Viola Woods
Born September 19, 1905 in Northumberland County
Parents: Charles A Woods & Aggie Kerr
(This looks like the same Charles found by Nancy in border crossings of 1910 and he was Welsh, so if one and the same, this birth puts him with his earlier wife near Picton and the Orphanage)
Linda
Just been reading this!
Charles A Woods :o :o :o
Not sure about the Aggie and Kate - never come across it before - Aggie - Agnes, etc. Kate - Catherine/Kathrine/Catriona, etc.
Maybe Agnes and Charles didn't marry :-\ Kate came over with the two boys the year after.
Gadget
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Well, don't make me do math tonight...lol but doesn't that leave her alone to concieve James? Besides I think that may be the Charles A that has had us running in circles before.
Not meaning to be rude but did you try:
Wood Charles H. 35 M 1904 Liverpool to Quebec and view the image?
dollylee
I have found a Catherine Woods in a cemetery very very close to the orphanage, might explain why he put them in that one. Unfortunately you have to ask for a request to get information on death date, family etc.
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Wood Charles H. 35 M 1904 Liverpool to Quebec and view the image?
dollylee
Yes:
The 1904 one has him as single and a farmer. Don't think that's him somehow :-\
Think it's getting a bit late/early for you Dolly!
Gadget
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So
What we have is
a 1901 census in Bridgend,
a possible family - Kate, William and John travelling from Liverpool to Quebec in 1906 - right age for Willie. Right nationality
a grave for a Catherine Woods near the orphanage
But no definite Charles leaving UK yet
The Charles A could be him - he could have gone back to arrange for a passage or whatever. My Burgesses used to pop across the pond earlier than that :-\
Gadget
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Afraid you are right Gadget....sure not thinking straight.
It would be lovely to find a marriage for Charles and Kate/Catherine/Katherine. Our death indexes are dismal and even as late as 1907 the wife was often listed in a cemetery with her maiden name.
Off to bed..........I am sure willy's son will be thrilled that it's seems you have nailed them down......except for Charlie but he doesn't make it easy.
Goodnight.
dollylee hmmm but that would mean a birth with another woman before they came over...what man would chance the two women meeting? Or am I too tired and just not understanding lol
Goodnight
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In case you're still there, I've been playing with the destination for Kate and the boys. It was all smudged.
Anyone care to take a guess? Sure looks as if it could be Picton to me!
Gadget
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Dolly has gone to bed now but has sent me details of a marriage that looks very promising:
Sept Quarter 1892, Cardiff, vol 11a, page 542
Charles Wood
on the same page is a Catherine Meara - definitely Meara, I've checked the GRO page!
Haven't found a suitable one yet but there was this Henry, aged 6 on the 1901, born Scotland.
Have to be out for a while now.
I hope we've given you enough ammo to get going ;D
Gadget
PS - it sounds Irish to me, so might be worth checking O'Meara as well ;)
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Ah, but then we''ve been looking for a Kate with a James & William, but I thought I had looked for just the initials as well...Who knows what we miss...but that looks awefully promising....I would never poopoo the name John as being turned to James...If they'd lost the first boy and called this one John James....Middle names get reversed all the time....
Well...I think I have looked for Wood/Woods in the censuses about 9,000 times... ;D Wow, if someone can find a death for a Kate, Katherine, Catherine....but then I am sure everyone's looked already as well...but are doing it one more time just to be sure...haha
;D Thanks for joining us, Gadget...so many heads have to get us somewhere...and more of the bloodhounds may be coming today...
I love this site...you are all looking so hard...and I know we don't see all of that work on here, but we know its being done behind the scenes...
;D Hugs to all, J.J.
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:P Ah...missed that we now have a page seven...I also sent that marriage to Lesley for her search files as she has been working closely on the Kate/Charles connection...
Finger's crossed...Maybe we are close! ;)
Hope so...For Dolly's sake... ;D ( Can you put that hair back in now?)
J.J.
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Hi JJ
Did you notice that on the unindexed version of the Kate an boys going over, John is just J.
The original image that I looked at on FindMyPast was a different layout to the one that Dolly found. Obviously there were at least 2 lists for that ship :)
Gadget
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I have found a Catherine Woods in a cemetery very very close to the orphanage, might explain why he put them in that one. Unfortunately you have to ask for a request to get information on death date, family etc.
Where did you find that? And what cemetery?
Karen
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Good Day to you All,
I'm just catching up on the action since I was last here.
Welcome aboard Gadget ;D and thanks for helping out.
I'm sure that's them you've found coming over on the Kensington in 1906. It would fit very nicely.
There's a lot more stuff you folks have found that I have to study a bit but as we've been buried in snow, I've been a bit tardy on here :-[ ;D
Willys Son is probably shoveling too, so please bear with us....
I'll be back :) ;D ;D ;D
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geniecolgan's Initial query - condensed - with additions
From Willie’s memories:-
“came to Canada on a boat with his parents, brother James (possibe younger sister)He was “at his mother’s graveside funeral before he and his brother were given away by his father”
He was “picked out of a line-up at the orphanage by his adoptive father”.
Facts:-
Willie and his brother James were at the Loyal True Blue Orphanage, near Picton, Ontario.
In 1910 Willie Woods was sent by train with a label pinned to him saying he was Master Willie Woods, being sent to Mr. Henry Thistlethwaite, Norwood, Ontario.
1911 census, with the Thistlethwaites-adopted son, Wilfred W. Wood, age 9. His adoptive family renamed him Wilfred Ernest Thistlethwaite
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SplitView.jsp?id=135468
In 1964 Willie contacted The Loyal True Blue & Orange home in Richmond Hill, Ontario for proof of age.
Registered as - William Woods.
Date of Birth - Jan 1 1901. Place of Birth - Wales.
Date of Admission Home – Sept 19 1907.
Former Residence – Nipigon, Ontario.
Father – Charles Woods, Nipigon, Ontario / Mother – Deceased.
Date of Discharge – Mar 19 1910.
Adopted by – Mr. Henry Thistlethwaite, Norwood, Ontario.
James Woods was about two years younger than Willie and was never adopted.
James was placed with the Thistlethwaites sometime after Willie but he ran away. Then he went back to the orphanage until he was of age to be independent.
Orphan home found on 1911 - no James
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,283110
1901 Wales Census, Bridgend, Glamorgan
Charles Wood 41 Head Painter born Barrow in Furness Lancs
Kate Wood 39 Wife born Glamorgan Cowbridge
Henry Wood 6 Son born Edinburgh
William Wood 8mths Son born Glamorgan Cowbridge
William Wood birth registered in Bridgend Sept qtr 1900.
James Wood birth registered in Bridgend March qtr 1903.
Lesley
Marriage information for the boys William & James - by Nancy :
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,283110.0.html
Willy's son joins us...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,283110.30.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,283110.30.html
Canadian Border Crossings- I found a Charles Wood born 1861 trying to enter the US in 1915 at Niagara Falls. He is a widower, born in England, and has no relatives in Canada. His occupation is plasterer. He was not allowed to enter the US, it doesn't say why.
The details for this Charles seem to fit with the family that was in Bridgend Wales in 1901. On that census Charles was born about 1860/61 and was a painter. I have had many ancestors who changed back and forth every ten yrs between plasterer and painter.
Still can't find any matching deaths though. Lesley
I've found a possible trio crossing in 1906 which could fit the Bridgend family:
27 September 1906
Liverpool to Quebec - Ship: Kensington, Dominion Line
Kate Wood, 30, wife
William Wood, 6
John Wood, 2
Unfortunately, I can't find Charles - maybe he went before - and Kate's age is a little less. Gadget
Here is the link to the original: http://www.rootschat.com/links/02oh/
It does say she is going to meet her husband but a lot of the rest of it is kind of blobby. dollylee
also from dolly:
Sept Quarter 1892, Cardiff, vol 11a, page 542
Charles Wood on the same page as a Catherine Meara
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lots of other information found, but this seems the promising one...
so we'll concentrate on this find...
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Where did you find that? And what cemetery?
Karen
OCFA No information given...I long for the old days when they first put them on line completely as transcribed.
Wood, Catherine cemetery: Bethel/Doxsee Sophiasburg Prince Edward County Q-P8072
dollylee
ready to post but waiting for another poster ....ahhh, it's J.J. what a great job !!!
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Hi Dolly
Hope you are refreshed :)
I've been scavenging for Catherine Meara/O'Meara and variations but nothing that jumps out. My latest theory is that this might have been a second marriage and she would turn up as something else on the 1891. Found a poss marr ref to a Catherine Mara in Glamorgan 1888 - Davies or O'Neil :-\
Gadget :)
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Oh, you're looking at the Catherine O MARA in Roath, Glamorgan, Wales on the 1881, parents William & Bridget......born 1862? That looks promising as well...sorry, can't post numbers, by back button now erases all information...
(Gadget, you're the techie is that flash doing that? Both browsers all of a sudden started doing that about a month ago! >:( )
There also this on the BMD for births..
Births June Q. 1862 for Cardiff
Catherine Marrah vol. 11a, p.216
Nothing quite falling into place on this puzzle, yet, huh? :P ;) :D J.J.
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I've been going around Scotland, England and Wales looking for them 1891-1861
The ref for the Catherine O'Mara is:
1881 RG11/5284 F 66 P 7
On laptop so my typing and speed are much slower :(
The Charles on the 1901 was born Barrow in Furness, Lancashire - can't find anything that jumps out :(
Gadget
PS - no probs with my A*y
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Wow! ...... You guys :-* :-* :-*
This is great, I'm so happy for Willys Son (there's no smiley for a round of appause) but you know what I mean ;D
Genie :)
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There is one Chas. Wood born in Engalnd of the correct age...boarding in Cardiff St Mary with the LANCEY family...but says Somerset birth? Occupation Sawyer
RG11 p. 5278 / f. 76 Page 33
also checked and Catherine isn't on BMD as born O Mara or O'Mara...Only a few are transcribed or mistranscribed at all...such as Flanahan ( Fanahan) I feel sorry for whomever has to seek out the rest of that family from the census...
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Not sure about that J.J. He was a sawyer. Charles was a painter/plasterer :-\
-
Right:
Births -
William Wood, Sept Q, 1900, Bridgend, 11a page 819
James Wood, Mar q, 1903, Bridgend, 11a, page 937
I shall order these two and we should get some firm info in a week - OK :)
Gadget
Added - should be with me on 14th Feb :D
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Wow, Gadget, you spend so much on this site, already :-*
Can't see any births on BMD for a Charles Wood/Woods in Ulverston ( not as a second name either, unless I am doing something worng?) :P no sign of one in England 1881 born Barrow ?
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Methinks this Charlie was a bit of a sliipery type ::)
How come they wouldn't let him into the states ???
..... and Willie said he gave him away :(
-
Genie
Did Willie tell his son anything about any memories in Wales - or the trip to the boat or anything like that at all?
I have a good memory - I can remember significant things that happened to me from about 18 months old. This journey must have been traumatic for him.
Just wondering :-\
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J.J. I'm fairly sure that Barrow in Furnace was in the Ulvetston Reg. Dist.
Back to my memory for UK geography ::)
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A couple of Charles Wood in Ulverston 1868 (Charles James Wood) and 1869 ( Alfred Charles Wood*) but none earlier. Nothing in Barrow.
Gadget
* Alfred Charles= Charles Alfred = Charles A - just thinking allowed :-\
Added - Ulverston and Barrow were separate I think - I did check on Genuki
Updated - Barrow was in Ulverston until 1876
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Genie
Did Willie tell his son anything about any memories in Wales - or the trip to the boat or anything like that at all?
I have a good memory - I can remember significant things that happened to me from about 18 months old. This journey must have been traumatic for him.
Just wondering :-\
I know no more than is on here already. I asked Roger and that's all he could get out of the old man.
-
Just checked - Barrow was in Ulverston until 1876
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J.J. did I thank you for the recap? Lovely job :)
-
Genie
Did Willie tell his son anything about any memories in Wales - or the trip to the boat or anything like that at all?
I have a good memory - I can remember significant things that happened to me from about 18 months old. This journey must have been traumatic for him.
Just wondering :-\
Gadget,
I have early memories back to about 18 months old too but mine were probably because the adults were uptight about bombs and it transferred to me.
However, apparently, Willie was very old by the time Roger was able to ask him questions and would get very upset so you can imagine, the questioning was not comprehensive.
One thing he was very sure about was that he came from Wales and he was bitter to the end about his father.
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I'm not surprised - poor lad, being put in an orphanage and left to be chosen from a line. It's horrifying to think of :'( :'( :'(
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I'm not surprised - poor lad, being put in an orphanage and left to be chosen from a line. It's horrifying to think of :'( :'( :'(
That's why I thought RC would like a shot at laying a few ghosts and I was right :)
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Just been doing some calculations -
James Wood, Mar q, 1903, Bridgend, 11a, page 937
and
There's a Charles A Wood, labourer, aged 39, Steerage
17 April 1902, Liverpool to Quebec (Montreal) , Ship Parisian, Allan Line
On his own :-\
Gadget
It is just possible if James was born early on in the quarter - or even in the previous year and a late registration !
Gadget
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Gadget
Do you get a final destination on FindMyPast?
I checked the ship out in the National Archives for final destination but couldn't find Charles A.
I found a Sam going to Winnipeg
a James going to Montreal
an Alex going to Toronto
but came up empty on a Charles. Perhaps someone else could look??
http://www.rootschat.com/links/02op/
I am starting to think I need new glasses.... >:(
dollylee
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I had a look too my eyes are worse than yours Dolly ;D
I see Sam and Alex but didn't see Charles.
I'll have another go a bit later.
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I hope nobody minds if any of their hard work got left out of the update reply...
Just thought since this one seems to have a direction, maybe we'll take the ball & run with it. If any clues end up pointing another way, we can redo it...or if it stays on track, we can just copy and paste it and add new infomation.
I do not know the districts on the BMD so when they say "from" or "up to" I follow the blue links to see what the registration districts were before, or next.
:P ;D so I am a nincompoop...but not a total one!
J.J.
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Hi Dolly
Here's a small portion of the sheet which lists Charles A Wood. He is on page 6 of 13 and is travelling Steerage. Your link just has 'Second Cabin' on it.
Gadget
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That was page one of the manifest.... steerage for Canada started on page 9, sorry I didn't mention that.
I finally found him but am having trouble cropping the page (never had this problem before) but when I go to open it it says something about the wrong file type. I've done it many times before
So here is the url with him. He should be on the page you open, if not he is on page 10, pages selected in upper right corner.... he's on the 26th line down, has lost 10 years of age and is a steel worker. The page is crooked but there are lines and that's the way I read it....
http://www.rootschat.com/links/02os/
dollylee
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I see him Dolly - don't think he was ours. he was a Steel Worker from Durham going to Sault Ste Marie :(
Gadget
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Have the rest deserted us?? I hope they are just off working on it by themselves hoping to come in and scoop us.... ;D ;D
Nothing would make me happier and I'm sure willy's son wouldn't mind either. ;D ;D
Thanks Gadget.
dollylee
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I think that Charles must be one of the slipperiest fish that I've come across. I've been searching for him everywhere on censuses and BMDs - nothing that really fits until that 1901 one :-\
Maybe they're waiting for the certs to come through!
Gadget
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Right - tackling this in a different way!
I've looked for Wood/Woods in the Ulverston area in 1861. The onle couple who were having children were:
Sunderland Terrace, Ulverston
RG9/3168 Folio 14 Page 22
John Wood, 27, Butcher, b. Cumberland, Drigg
Sarah, 23, b. Lancashire, Kirkby (?)
Fanny, 7 months, b. Ulverston
There is also an interesting possibility:
?Sontergate, Ulverston
RG9/3168 Folio 76 Page 12
Betsy Wilson, wid, 51, Laundress, b. Lancs, ? Egeton cum Newland
James, s, unm, 22, shoemaker, b. Lancs, ?Greenodd
Thomas,s, unm. 20, brush maker (app), b. Lancs, Greenodd
John, s, unm, 16, clogger (ap), b. Ulverston
James C Wood, boarder, 2, b. Ulverston*
Gadget :)
* another one to scrap - the C is for Christopher :(
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A friend of Ernest's perhaps???? ::) ::) Wouldn't anything be easier than finding Ernest??
Have you wondered about the gap between Henry's birth 1895'ish and Charles 1901'ish?
dollylee
no need to answer....it was a rhetorical question
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Hi, Willy's son et al...
Did anyone ever see this publication called "Lobb Family" ?
Listed as a publication under the name Thistlethwaite...there is some information listed under Wilfred, but likely all that you have already, but you never know if there may be some little extra thing of note...
http://www.ogs.on.ca/ogspi/160/e160t009.htm
Hi
Thanks for this.
It is a reference to me and one of my brothers.
I tried to access the website but can't seem to get all.
I will have to get together with Genie next week and get her to help me.
Take care
Roger
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Genie
Did Willie tell his son anything about any memories in Wales - or the trip to the boat or anything like that at all?
I have a good memory - I can remember significant things that happened to me from about 18 months old. This journey must have been traumatic for him.
Just wondering :-\
Hi Gadget
Thanks for all your doing, it's very exciting and I think some info seems to be getting close.
Unfortunately when I tried to talk to my Dad about what he really remembered I either got extreme bitter anger from him about his Father putting him in a "home" or extreme emotion and crying about his Mother dying. He said he could remember standing by the gravesite when she was buried and that it was the most alone feeling in his life.
So was not able to discuss much.
He said he thought he had vague memories of the boat trip but nothing concrete.
I know not much to go on.
Thanks again for all your doing.
Roger
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Roger, did you mean you have seen the publication already? There are some people trying to find it for us....in the Quinte Branch of the Ontario Genealogical Society Research Library. They said they hope to have something for us by after the weekend...
If you have seen the publication...please let me know so I can tell them to not go to the trouble?
Oh, is there another listing with you in it? This is the one they are looking for :
THISTLEWAITE f@ca.on.people_in_books_category-Lobb Family
THISTLEWAITE Albert page 8
THISTLEWAITE Amelia Jane {LOBB} 1869-1961 pages 5,7,8
THISTLEWAITE Henry pages 5,8
THISTLEWAITE Wilfred page 8
Hi, Willy's son et al...
Did anyone ever see this publication called "Lobb Family" ?
Listed as a publication under the name Thistlethwaite...there is some information listed under Wilfred, but likely all that you have already, but you never know if there may be some little extra thing of note...
http://www.ogs.on.ca/ogspi/160/e160t009.htm
Hi
Thanks for this.
It is a reference to me and one of my brothers.
I tried to access the website but can't seem to get all.
I will have to get together with Genie next week and get her to help me.
Take care
Roger
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Hi Roger
I will try and find as much as possible for you on this side of the pond .
I'm Welsh originally and I have cousins in Canada and I have lived over there. I would love to solve the puzzle for you. For your father's memory and for you.
By very best wishes and thoughts
Gadget :)
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Hi Gadget
I apologize, I am new to this and am floundering around.
I don't think I have what your talking about.
When I read your mesage earlier I tried to access the site on your mesage but couldn't do more than read the names but couldn't get past that.
I really need Genie here holding my hand and leading me thru.
So I don't think the info your waiting for is something I have already and I sincerely hope I don't have you doing something for nothing.
Thank you for all your doing.
Roger
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Hi Roger
Was it a link that J.J has put up about the Lobb family?
I;ve ordered the two birth certificates of the William and James who we think might be your father and uncle. I'll get them next week.
Gadget :)
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I really need Genie here holding my hand and leading me thru.
LOL, she's probably still digging out from the snow ;D
Karen
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Hi Karen,
I've just dug my car out ;D
' Been on the phone with Roger, he tells me you maybe distant cousins on his mother's side :o ;D
What fun ;D
Got to get to the post office right now. Back later.
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Roger, O.K. great....Hopefully it is more than a wee reference...
One never knows how extensive or simple this information may be...
Well, you may be related... isn't that something, Karen...?
Genie...welcome to the world of the dirty old white stuff...!!!
Gadget, you are a saint to spend your money on this project...
Lesley...nice work, hopefully we are on track...
Dollylee put your hair back in & get some sleep...
Nancy, ( she found the marriages, & more) where are you?
Hello and big old chilly hugs to all & anyone else I may have missed.... ;D J.J.
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OCFA No information given...I long for the old days when they first put them on line completely as transcribed.
Wood, Catherine cemetery: Bethel/Doxsee Sophiasburg Prince Edward County Q-P8072
dollylee
Hi All,
Unfortunately not the right Catherine. :'( This Catherine Wood died August 20, 1872 age 2.
Oh well, back to the drawing board!
Lesley
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Awww to bad.
Are you in Ontario Lesley?
dollylee
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Oh, phooey...just the bare basics!
Well, I hope what I have to pass on to you is not disappointing. I will list it here and if it is of interest, I can forward the complete pages from which this information is drawn. It is from the Lobb family history which states:
1) Henry Thistlethwaite married Amelia Jane Willis and they had two adopted children. The page lists all of Amelia Jane’s family
2) On another page it repeats this marriage, gives full information for Amelia Jane and says that she married Henry Thistlethewaite on October 27, 1902. She is buried at the cemetery at Norwood, Ontario. Their adopted children are named Wilfred and Albert...
That's it...so there was another adopted son Albert I am sure Roger knows of already...and Amelia ...so, she was married before, then...to a Willis? I seem to remember from Wilfred's marriage - surname Lobb...because I remembered a brother-in law-Lobb was in the household 1911 census. That is neither here nor there...I am blathering on....a bit disappointed, but one can't expect the world in one's lap....
Anyway...If you want copies of those pages or any others from the publication....I'll p.m you the contact info.
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Hi Dollylee,
Yes, I'm in snowy Southern Ontario. Where your street gets plowed 2 days after it snows!
The cemetery lookup was courtesy of R. H. at the Quinte Branch of the OGS. He replied to my request very quickly and he was very helpful.
Lesley
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UPDATE:
geniecolgan's Initial query - condensed - with additions
From Willie’s memories:-
“Came to Canada on a boat with his parents, brother James (possibe younger sister) He was "at his mother’s graveside funeral before he and his brother were given away by his father” He was “picked out of a line-up at the orphanage by his adoptive father”.
Facts:-Willie and his brother James were left at the Loyal True Blue Orphanage, near Picton, Ontario. In 1910 Willie Woods was sent by train with a label pinned to him saying he was Master Willie Woods, being sent to Mr. Henry Thistlethwaite, Norwood, Ontario.
1911 census, with the Thistlethwaites-adopted son, Wilfred W. Wood, age 9. His adoptive family renamed him Wilfred Ernest Thistlethwaite
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SplitView.jsp?id=135468
In 1964 Willie contacted The Loyal True Blue & Orange home in Richmond Hill, Ontario for proof of age.
Registered as - William Woods.
Date of Birth - Jan 1 1901. Place of Birth - Wales.
Date of Admission Home – Sept 19 1907.
Former Residence – Nipigon, Ontario.
Father – Charles Woods, Nipigon, Ontario / Mother – Deceased.
Date of Discharge – Mar 19 1910.
Adopted by – Mr. Henry Thistlethwaite, Norwood, Ontario.
James Woods was about two years younger than Willie and was never adopted. James was placed with the Thistlethwaites sometime after Willie but he ran away. Then he went back to the orphanage until he was of age to be independent. Orphan home found on 1911 - but no James - still haven't located on 1911
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,283110
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1901 Wales Census, Bridgend, Glamorgan
Charles Wood 41 Head Painter born Barrow in Furness Lancs
Kate Wood 39 Wife born Glamorgan Cowbridge
Henry Wood 6 Son born Edinburgh
William Wood 8mths Son born Glamorgan Cowbridge
Found by Lesley: Gadget has sent for certs! Finger's crossed!
William Wood birth registered in Bridgend Sept qtr 1900.
James Wood birth registered in Bridgend March qtr 1903.
Marriage information for the boys William & James - by Nancy :
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,283110.0.html
Willy's son joins us...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,283110.30.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,283110.30.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Canadian Border Crossings- I found a Charles Wood born 1861 trying to enter the US in 1915 at Niagara Falls. He is a widower, born in England, and has no relatives in Canada. His occupation is plasterer. He was not allowed to enter the US, it doesn't say why.
The details for this Charles seem to fit with the family that was in Bridgend Wales in 1901. On that census Charles was born about 1860/61 and was a painter. I have had many ancestors who changed back and forth every ten yrs between plasterer and painter.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Found a possible trio crossing in 1906 which could fit the Bridgend family:
27 September 1906
Liverpool to Quebec - Ship: Kensington, Dominion Line
Kate Wood, 30, wife
William Wood, 6
John Wood, 2
Unfortunately, I can't find Charles - maybe he went before - and Kate's age is a little less. Gadget
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here is the link to the original: http://www.rootschat.com/links/02oh/
It does say she is going to meet her husband but a lot of the rest of it is kind of blobby. dollylee
also from dolly:
Sept Quarter 1892, Cardiff, vol 11a, page 542
Charles Wood on the same page as a Catherine Meara
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Still no death information for the mother....
Lots of other information found, but this seems the promising one...
so we'll concentrate on this find...
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Good point on the name thing J.J., I wasn't thinking at the time. I changed it to initials.
He's very, very helpful. He even looked through the 1871 census in that area for Catherine Wood.
Lesley
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Evening Genie,
I haven't had a chance to read thru all of the postings here, but I am wondering if there are still any family members still residing in Nipigon or are buried there? I am willing to go to Nipigon (abt an hour away from Thunder bay) when I go to Thunder Bay next. Let me know. In the mean time I finish reading throught the postings.
JDC
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Hi JDC,
I'll give you time to read the thread, In the meantime I've PM'd you ;D
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Roger, O.K. great....Hopefully it is more than a wee reference...
One never knows how extensive or simple this information may be...
Oh, phooey...just the bare basics!
Well, I hope what I have to pass on to you is not disappointing. I will list it here and if it is of interest, I can forward the complete pages from which this information is drawn. It is from the Lobb family history which states:
1) Henry Thistlethwaite married Amelia Jane Willis and they had two adopted children. The page lists all of Amelia Jane’s family
2) On another page it repeats this marriage, gives full information for Amelia Jane and says that she married Henry Thistlethewaite on October 27, 1902. She is buried at the cemetery at Norwood, Ontario. Their adopted children are named Wilfred and Albert...
That's it...so there was another adopted son Albert I am sure Roger knows of already...and Amelia ...so, she was married before, then...to a Willis? I seem to remember from Wilfred's marriage - surname Lobb...because I remembered a brother-in law-Lobb was in the household 1911 census. That is neither here nor there...I am blathering on....a bit disappointed, but one can't expect the world in one's lap....
Anyway...If you want copies of those pages or any others from the publication....I'll p.m you the contact info.
Hi JJ
Thanks for this,
actually Wilfred (my father) was adopted and then his first wife Alberta kelly had 3 kids.
The first died in child birth.
The second, Albert survived and the third died and she died a week later.
Her kids were all very large, something like 12 to 18lbs.
So my dad could not take care of Albert once Alberta died and he took Albert to his adopted parents with the thought to get him again when he married my mother, but his adopted parents asked to keep him as they were alone and wanted the company.
Hope this explains some of that.
Take care
Roger
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Hi all you great people,
Everything your doing is so appreciated.
It makes my Father's past seem real. Till now it just always seemed a vague unreal thing.
I am going to call the True blue lodge on Monday and see what if any records they have for Uncle Jim.
My father's brother.
Ity seemes he is the only blood relarive we had on Dad's side.
If they have something maybe there would be more than what they gave for Dad.
As far as we know both were put in the home at the same time but only my father was adopted which seems funny.
My father said he asked them to take Jim as well some time after he was adopted but I dont know when. They did but
Uncle Jim was rebellious and ran away but I don't know if he went back to the home then or what happened.
It is my guess he would have been mid teens or so when that happened and may have just stayed on his own.
Roger
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Hello Everyone :D :D :D :D
Postman has just dropped this birth cert through the door.
Especially for Roger on Valentines day!
12 July 1900 at Eagles Lane Cowbridge
William Wood
Father - Charles Wood (painter journeyman)
Mother Kate Ann Wood formerly Trott
Informant Charles Wood, father, Picton Cottage, Llanblerhian
the same for James - born on 24th January 1903 at 16 the Rhiew, Bridgend
Dolly did PM me a while ago saying that she'd found a possible Wood-Trott marriage :)
Genie - I'll scanthe ceerts and e-mail them to you. If Roger is on dial up it might take a while for him to download. What do you think?
Gadget :D
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Excellent Gadget, that was really kind of you to do that for Roger, I'm sure he will be over the moon!!
Karen
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I'll leave it up to you all now, if you have the UK records, etc.
I'm off for the foreseeable future. I just stayed around for this :)
By all - it's been nice working with you.
Gadget
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Here's a marriage.........
Ann Kate Trott
Charles Wood
April/May/June 1898
Glamorgan, Gwent, Monmouthshire
Volume 11a
Page 343
Karen
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That fits Karen :D
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1881 Census.........
Henry Trott, age 35, Road Labourer,
Ann Trott, age 27, tollgate keeper
Ann K. Trott, age 4, scholar, born Glamorgan, Cowbridge
Henry W. Trott, age 5, scholar, born Glamorgan, Cowbridge
Civil Parish: Cowbridge
I can't make out where Henry and Ann the parents were born :-\
Karen
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Ok, so Henry Trott was born in North Petherton, Sommerset, England
so, here he is on the 1871.......
Henry Trott, age 20, born Petherton Somerset, labourer
he is a border at George Smart's house
Civil Parish: Bedwellty
Town: Ebbw Vale
County: Monmouthshire
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Just popped back with a little bit or extra thinking.
On James Cert, Charles was the informant so he was in Bridgend until at least 3rd February 1903.
I think a bit more searching :)
Gadget
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This looks like Henry on the 1861 with his family........
John Trott, head, widow, age 73, Thatcher, born Somerset Cruch St. Michael
John Trott, son in law, age 31, thatcher, born West Mouthton
Sarah, daughter, age 34, thatcher (wife), born North Petherton
Samuel J, grandson, age 14
Henry, grandson, age 10
Mary Ann, granddaughter, age 7
John, grandson, age 5
Frank, grandson, age 3
grandchildren born North Petherton
Civil Parish: North Petherton
County of Somerset
Karen
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Think I might have found Henry and Ann's marriage. i used to live down there :)
Henry Trott and Ann Addicott are on the same page:
Bridgwater, Somerset, March q, 1872, vol 5c page 627
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Found this death June 28, 1906 in Toronto, County of York
She is born England, 45 years old, married :-\
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Yes!!!!
Boy! you're doing great Karen ;D
where did you get that? I'd like to get the image for Roger.
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She was 39 on the 1901, Karen.
However, that was before she and William and James left on the one that i found :-\
Gadget
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I got it off ancestry.ca the only problem with these early death certificates is they give no information >:(
She is living at 380 Montrose Ave., Toronto
Died of Valvular (?) Dis of Heart 4 days
PM your email to me and I'll forward the original.
Karen
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Genie, perhaps Roger could call a few of the cemeteries in Toronto, Prospect is a big one, maybe he could find this Ann Wood buried somewhere and they may have further information?
Karen
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Good point Karen.
I've spoken with him this morning and given him the "heads-up".
I expect him on here sometime today.
I'm saving all images for him as I have high-speed, I can put them on a stick or disc for him to load off-line :)
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Genie, perhaps Roger could call a few of the cemeteries in Toronto, Prospect is a big one, maybe he could find this Ann Wood buried somewhere and they may have further information?
Karen
Hi Karen
That is a good thought and I will get on to it.
Thanks again for all this.
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Ok, so looking at census Ann Addicott's parents are Job Addicot and Ann.....
There is a marriage for Job Addicott and Anne Langford in 1828 in North Petherton.
Karen
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If Ann Kate's mother was Ann Addicott, she would have been born circa 1854.
At the moment, I've only found this:
Bridgewater, Mar q, 1856, v. 4c, p 476
Mary Ann Addicott
will have another look.
I'm not supposed to be here now ::)
Gadget :D
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We also have:
Ann Addicott, Bridgwater, Sept q, 1848, vol 10, page 360
:-\
-
Aha, how about this
Anna Jane Addicott, Bridgewater, Jun, 1854, Vol 4c, page 468
:)
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Wow, What fabulous news, Gadget...you are just such a genealogy gem... ;D Roger will be so happy....
UPDATE:
geniecolgan's Initial query - condensed - with additions
From Willie’s memories:-
“Came to Canada on a boat with his parents, brother James (possibe younger sister) He was "at his mother’s graveside funeral before he and his brother were given away by his father” He was “picked out of a line-up at the orphanage by his adoptive father”.
Facts:-Willie and his brother James were left at the Loyal True Blue Orphanage, near Picton, Ontario. In 1910 Willie Woods was sent by train with a label pinned to him saying he was Master Willie Woods, being sent to Mr. Henry Thistlethwaite, Norwood, Ontario.
1911 census, with the Thistlethwaites-adopted son, Wilfred W. Wood, age 9. His adoptive family renamed him Wilfred Ernest Thistlethwaite
http://automatedgenealogy.com/census11/SplitView.jsp?id=135468
In 1964 Willie contacted The Loyal True Blue & Orange home in Richmond Hill, Ontario for proof of age.
Registered as - William Woods.
Date of Birth - Jan 1 1901. Place of Birth - Wales.
Date of Admission Home – Sept 19 1907.
Former Residence – Nipigon, Ontario.
Father – Charles Woods, Nipigon, Ontario / Mother – Deceased.
Date of Discharge – Mar 19 1910.
Adopted by – Mr. Henry Thistlethwaite, Norwood, Ontario.
James Woods was about two years younger than Willie and was never adopted. James was placed with the Thistlethwaites sometime after Willie but he ran away. Then he went back to the orphanage until he was of age to be independent. Orphan home found on 1911 - but no James - still haven't located on 1911
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,283110
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1901 Wales Census, Bridgend, Glamorgan
Charles Wood 41 Head Painter born Barrow in Furness Lancs
Kate Wood 39 Wife born Glamorgan Cowbridge
Henry Wood 6 Son born Edinburgh
William Wood 8mths Son born Glamorgan Cowbridge
Found by Lesley: Gadget has sent for certs! Finger's crossed!
William Wood birth registered in Bridgend Sept qtr 1900.
James Wood birth registered in Bridgend March qtr 1903.
Marriage information for the boys William & James - by Nancy :
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,283110.0.html
Willy's son joins us...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,283110.30.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,283110.30.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Canadian Border Crossings- I found a Charles Wood born 1861 trying to enter the US in 1915 at Niagara Falls. He is a widower, born in England, and has no relatives in Canada. His occupation is plasterer. He was not allowed to enter the US, it doesn't say why.
The details for this Charles seem to fit with the family that was in Bridgend Wales in 1901. On that census Charles was born about 1860/61 and was a painter. I have had many ancestors who changed back and forth every ten yrs between plasterer and painter.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Found a possible trio crossing in 1906 which could fit the Bridgend family:
27 September 1906
Liverpool to Quebec - Ship: Kensington, Dominion Line
Kate Wood, 30, wife
William Wood, 6
John Wood, 2
Unfortunately, I can't find Charles - maybe he went before - and Kate's age is a little less. Gadget
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Here is the link to the original: http://www.rootschat.com/links/02oh/
It does say she is going to meet her husband but a lot of the rest of it is kind of blobby. dollylee
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
New Feb 14th ♥ Gadget returns with good news...
William Wood - 12 July 1900 at Eagles Lane Cowbridge
Father - Charles Wood (painter journeyman)
Mother Kate Ann Wood formerly Trott / Informant Charles Wood, father, Picton Cottage, Llanblerhian
Same for James Wood - born on 24th January 1903 at 16 the Rhiew, Bridgend
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Henry Trott and Ann Addicott are on the same page:Bridgwater, Somerset, March q, 1872, vol 5c page 627
also a submitter on LDS! May want to try & contact if any info on there...
- Marriage Ann Addicott / Feb. 10 1872 Parish Church, North Petherton
Henry Trott, age 35, Road Labourer,
Ann Trott, age 27, tollgate keeper
Ann K. Trott, age 4, scholar, born Glamorgan, Cowbridge
Henry W. Trott, age 5, scholar, born Glamorgan, Cowbridge
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ann Kate Trott / Charles Wood
April/May/June 1898
Glamorgan, Gwent, Monmouthshire
Volume 11a Page 343
Possible death information for the mother....!!!
Death June 28, 1906 in Toronto, County of York for ann Ann wood age 45
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,283110.msg1690192.html#msg1690192
image does look too say wood Ann K -
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
She was creative with her age on all documents....latest find:
Anna Jane Addicott, Bridgewater, Jun, 1854, Vol 4c, page 468
I know there is more but have to run....continue later ...great work everyone!
-
New Feb 14th ♥ Gadget returns with good news...
William Wood - 12 July 1900 at Eagles Lane Cowbridge
Father - Charles Wood (painter journeyman)
Mother Kate Ann Wood formerly Trott / Informant Charles Wood, father, Picton Cottage, Llanblerhian
What I love, J.J., is that we have given Willie a birthday for the first time really in his life. he's not 1 January 1901 but a birthday boy
Happy birthday Willie for all those birthdays he didn't have.
12 July 1900
and
He should have got his pension 6 months earlier :)
Gadget
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only Ann Addicott that fits:
1861
High Street, North Petherton
RG9/1622 Folio 71 Page 6
Ann Addicott, head, widow, 52, ? labourer,
Richard, 16, ag lab
Joseph, 13, ag lab
Ann, 12, ag lab
Edward, lodger, unm, 28
Job, lodger, unm, 20
All b. Somerset, North Petherton
Gadget
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"Found a possible trio crossing in 1906 which could fit the Bridgend family:
27 September 1906
Liverpool to Quebec - Ship: Kensington, Dominion Line
Kate Wood, 30, wife
William Wood, 6
John Wood, 2
Unfortunately, I can't find Charles - maybe he went before - and Kate's age is a little less. Gadget "
I don't think so Gadget if the death date of June 28, 1906 is correct. ;D
Great job Gadget !!! We should have gone with that Kate Trott/Charles Wood marriage when we first found it....but it seems it's all coming together now....except we still don't have Charles Wood on his ship over :(
Gotta go......don't have a card for my Valentine and he's talking me out to dinner :D
dollylee
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Dolly - think your early mornings and my mid-mornings got a few thing together :)
She was 39 on the 1901, Karen.
However, that was before she and William and James left on the one that i found :-\
Gadget
i'm not convinced , either - think that more inveastigation is called for
Happy V day. Have a good evening out. I'm suffering - dentist :(
Gadget
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Sorry to hear that Gadget....you do spend a lot of time with that Dentist...lol
It's so damn cold here my car won't start and I have had to call my daughter to come and pick me up. Second time this winter....perhaps it's not the cold but the car.
All of this is off topic so I might as well say HAPPY VALENTINE'S DAY to all as well.
dollylee
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I've had another look on the passenger lists, Dolly - K/Kate etc and Ann, etc. and the only one is the one I found and you found further info on. I'm doubting the burial record as our Kate.
And, if they were bound for Picton/Kingston, how come she was in Toronto :-\
Gadget
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;D Happy Valentines...you wonderful people you! ;D Gadget I agree it is so great that this important information has come to light. It has opened up new generations and introducing some new ancestors for Roger.
karen, that does look like an AnnK all written together, that's for sure...I can also see how a "d" with such a flourish could pass for a"ds"
so frustrating as can't always get on.... ::) computer problems big time...anyway, earlier I couldn't see the next part of the submissionon LDS Fam search but some parents are listed for that Ann...
but Roger this is a SUBMISSION so not reliable, we do use the information as possible stepping stones, though as names sometimes are reliable, but dates aren't. In this case no names were left on site. There is an exact date listed, which might make it plausible...but don't see information on submitter to check with about documents...
Ann Addicott born about 1849
Parents listed as Edward Addicott & Anne Ingram
Married Henry Trott ( no parents listed) Feb. 10 1872, Parish Church, North Petherton
However there are other submissions for even an earlier birth of an Ann / other siblings listed....Amelia, Louisa, Job, William, Richard, Joseph
As it is we figured was getting on to a ripe age when she had the boys, There is a birth 1848...but age 54/55 is a stretch. Not impossible, though and if Charles was many several her junior, he'd never know her true age...so now I am curious, are these on a census together, or is that bits of them farmed out on the 1861...
My head hurts
( but then, what else is new?)
I thought I'd better not update more information until more positive results...
HUGS TO ALL!!! J.J.
Just looked back at Gadget's 1861 and it seems to look like the family that matches above...not that it absolutely proves a match to our Ann.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,283110.msg1690939.html#msg1690939
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Possible death information for the mother....!!!
Death June 28, 1906 in Toronto, County of York for ann Ann wood age 45
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,283110.msg1690192.html#msg1690192
image does look too say wood Ann K -
Happy Valentines everyone!!
Sorry to be a downer, but, I'm not sure about this death for Ann. I did see this one before but I had ruled it out for a few reasons. I thought it said Ann K as well, but it is a cross mark after the name. Each entry on the page has it. The biggest thing was the date though. This was before the family came from Wales. The last thing was that I found an Ann Wood same age, from England, on the 1901 census in Toronto with husband Frederick.
Lesley
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Hi Lesley,
the death in 1906 and the passage over later that year does throw a spoke in the wheel.
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Hi all
I think Dolly and I came to the same conclusion last night - see posts before J.J.s summary. It seemed strange that she could be dead 3 months before the boat set off from Liverpool. I also noticed that there were a lot of Wood/Woods.
I'm sure they would have been somewhere nearer the orphanage.
Gadget
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Following on from the 1861:
1851
HO107/1924 Folio 259 Page 7
North moor Green ?Drove, North Petherton
Ann Addicott, 40, widow, labourer
Job, 12, labourer
William, 9
Richard, 7
Joseph, 5
Ann, 2
all born North Petherton
I'll check the 1841. Husband should be around then.
Gadget
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:D
I think J.J. is correct with the Edward Addicott and Ann Ingram:
1841
HO107/953 Book 7 Folio 24 page 14
Near Moorland House, North Petherton
Edward Addicott, 30-34 Lab
Ann, 30-34
Amelia, 12
Edward, 10
Louisa, 8
Job, 2
William, 3 mths
all born County
The must have married late 1820s by the age of Amelia
Gadget
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Just trying to get the tree sorted:
William Wood b. 12 July 1900, Cowbridge, Glamorgan
Parents - Charles Wood and Ann Kate Trott (m. June Q, 1898, Newport, Glamorgan)
Ann Kate Trott - b. Mar Q, 1877, Brigend (v 11a, page 575)
Parents - Henry Trott and Ann Addicott (m. March q, 1872, Bridgewater, Somerset)
Henry Trott -
Parents possibly John Trott and Sarah
Ann Addicott
Parents possibly Edward Addicott and Ann Ingram
Gadget
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A Map of the North Petherton/Bridgewater area:
Click here (http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&X=330000.208501139&Y=130000.826675921&width=700&height=400&gride=329772.208501139&gridn=136949.826675921&srec=0&coordsys=gb&db=freegaz&addr1=&addr2=&addr3=&pc=&advanced=&local=&localinfosel=&kw=&inmap=&table=&ovtype=&keepicon=true&zm=0&scale=200000&up.x=361&up.y=10)
and of the Cowbridge area:
Click Here (http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&X=300000.65639265&Y=180000.865674016&width=700&height=400&gride=299561.65639265&gridn=174673.865674016&srec=0&coordsys=gb&db=freegaz&addr1=&addr2=&addr3=&pc=&advanced=&local=&localinfosel=&kw=&inmap=&table=&ovtype=&keepicon=true&zm=0&scale=200000&down.x=358&down.y=421)
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Just here for a second because I can't sleep. Can't say I have been really following Kate's ancestors, or parents at least but I did notice her father's name was Henry.
Not sure if Wales followed the English Naming Traditions of sons: father's father's name oldest born, mother's father's name second born or not. But this does lead some credence to the fact that poor Kate may have NOT been with Charles when Henry was born. (explains unusual place of birth, no wedding date before birth, other sons following 6 years later & the use of Henry for a name) might explain why no birth for Henry Wood/s can be found, also might explain why Henry didn't make the trip over with them. If Henry was 6 in 1901 by 1906 at the age of 11 he may have gone to natural father, thought he was old enough to stay...not wanting to go...or didn't want to go with Charles.
Did we (meaning any of you) look for a death of a fairly young Henry Trott?
If this makes no sense I could be sleepwalking. If it does maybe I can stop thinking about it and go to sleep ;D
Anyway I leave it with you and go off to bed.
dollylee
p.s. If it's ridiculous......it was typed by my sub-conscious (sp?) because it really doesn't have anything to do with anything does it as he would only be a half brother at best.
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A marriage for Edward Addicott and Ann Ingram from Somerset Marriage index (FHO):
30 December 1827, North Petherton
No other details
Hi Dolly
I had wondered about the Henry! I can't find a birth record for a henry Trott (variations) or Wood(s) in Edinburgh.
Wales did at one stage follow a similar naming pattern but (we also had patronymics as well!) but not as rigid at that time. Also, Kate's family were from Somerset so :-\ I've been trying to find Ann/Kate (alts) and family on the 1891 - no luck so far in Eng Wales or Scotland - or her family.
Given the age discrepancy (Kate b. 1877 and Charles b.c. 1860) , I'm wondering if Charles had married before.
Gadget
PS - I looked for a death of Henry (Wood(s) and Trott) but the only ones were for someone born circa 1900 :(
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Good Luck Gadget and Dolly!!
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I've had a quick look through the thread and don't think this has been found before - not surprised really as they were indexed as Flett but quite clearly Trott:
1891
RG12/4453 Folio 6 Page 6
Globe Inn, Cowbridge
Henry Trott, 45, Licensed Victualler, b. Somerset, North Petherton
Ann, 34, b.Somerset, North Petherton
Ann K, 14, scholar, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge
Henry W, 10, scholar, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge
Sarah A, 5, scholar, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge
Susannah, 3, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge
And 15 lodgers
How he got from being a road labourer and she a Toolgate keepeer in 1881 to having a pub/lodging house I'm not sure but it must be them!
Also - maybe that's how Ann Kate met Charles :-\
Also, on the 1901, Charles and Kate seem to have a lodging house at The Rhiew - a very long list of boarders after the family.
Gadget
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Now here's a turn up for the books:
in 1901:
RG13/5047 Folio 25 Page 41
Trott's Lodging House, Cowbridge
Henry Trott, 60, Coal Merchant and Lodging House Keeper, b. Somerset, North Petherton
Ann, 50, b. Somerset, North Petherton
Henry W, s, 20, saddler, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge
Annie, d,15, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge (Sarah A on the 1891)
Minnie, d,13, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge (Susannah on 1891)
Henry Wood, Grandson, 2, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge
So is this the same Henry who is down as aged 6 with Charles and Kate and a duplicate entry (it often happened) or what :o ??? ??? :o
Gadget
Added - still concerned about Ann (mother) she's down in the censuses as born 1851-54 :-\
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There are quite a few <name> Henry Wood in the Cardiff/Bridgend/Newport area 1896-1900, so not sure.
There is also a very interesting one which might fit the 1901, aged 6 one:
Charles Henry Wood, Newport, June q, 1896.
So which is what and what is which ???
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This looks like Ann Addicott in 1871:
RG10/2384 Folio 80 Page 10
Roadside or Readside, Lyng, Bridgewater, Somerset
?Innperona Hillman, wid, 60, Dairy woman, b. Somerset, ?
George Hillman, s, 28, Dairy man, b. Somerset, ?
Francis Hillman, s, 20, Dairy man, b. Somerset, ?
Ann Addicott, serv, 20, Servant, b. Somerset, North Petherton
The handwriting is terrible!
Before that, there's only the ones I've found :-\
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I believe this to be Charles on the 1891 Wales census
Wales, Glamorgan, Eglwysilan
Household # 180
Address: looks like Porrott Inn
John Jenkins Head
Barbara Jenkins wife
Barbarra Jenkins daughter
Charles Wood age 21 single boarder born Devon England occupation may be employed as coal Haulaur?
William Preston boarder
Linda
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Good Day Everyone,
I've been recapping and I think Nacy made a good point, we can rule Ediburgh out for Henry's birth place...
......I would think that the location for Henry is incorrect if this is the family. He was probably born in Eglwysilan which borders Glamorgan and Monmouthshire. It's the only parish that would fit unless the family moved around a lot?
Nancy
There are quite a few <name> Henry Wood in the Cardiff/Bridgend/Newport area 1896-1900, so not sure.
There is also a very interesting one which might fit the 1901, aged 6 one:
Charles Henry Wood, Newport, June q, 1896.
So which is what and what is which ???
These seem to fit together with Charles being in Eglwysilan, what do you think?
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What is more interesting is the 2 year old Henry Wood living with Ann Kate's parents on the 1901.
Gadget
Now here's a turn up for the books:
in 1901:
RG13/5047 Folio 25 Page 41
Trott's Lodging House, Cowbridge
Henry Trott, 60, Coal Merchant and Lodging House Keeper, b. Somerset, North Petherton
Ann, 50, b. Somerset, North Petherton
Henry W, s, 20, saddler, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge
Annie, d,15, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge (Sarah A on the 1891)
Minnie, d,13, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge (Susannah on 1891)
Henry Wood, Grandson, 2, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge
So is this the same Henry who is down as aged 6 with Charles and Kate and a duplicate entry (it often happened) or what :o ??? ??? :o
Gadget
Added - still concerned about Ann (mother) she's down in the censuses as born 1851-54 :-\
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Gadget
Personnally I would rule that Henry aged 2 out as son of Ann Kate (Annie). She would have been 13 having him and about 12 when she got pregnant. Probably another siblings child I would think.
Linda
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Linda
Ann Kate's maiden name was Trott. She married Charles Wood in 1898. The Trott family have a grandson listed with them as Henry Wood. Are you suggesting that they had another daughter who married a Wood ?
Gadget
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Gadget
Personnally I would rule that Henry aged 2 out as son of Ann Kate (Annie). She would have been 13 having him and about 12 when she got pregnant. Probably another siblings child I would think.
Linda
Yes but.... you know what family nicknames are like.
If they Called Ann Kate Kate and Sarah Annie.
Am I making sence ???
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I think Linda is getting very confused. Ann Kate (as Kate) was married in 1901 and living with Charles . This is most likely their son.
Linda - just have a look through the info and dates again!
Gadget
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So was the daughter the Anne Kate who married Charles, then and we are looking for too old an Ann/Kate as that was her mother.....How interesting this has become....These mysteries are a marvalous puzzle....wish I had more time to do more than just read...by the time I read through again to make sense of it all I have to run....
:P
Looking forward to the next read later this evening...who knows what will be found!
Oh, wait....I saw another Anne Kate somewhere and wondered where she came in....
I'm looking back on that one before I go....
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I am now breaking my vow and coming in as my main persona again.
This is what we have from the Censuses:
In 1891:
I've had a quick look through the thread and don't think this has been found before - not surprised really as they were indexed as Flett but quite clearly Trott:
1891
RG12/4453 Folio 6 Page 6
Globe Inn, Cowbridge
Henry Trott, 45, Licensed Victualler, b. Somerset, North Petherton
Ann, 34, b.Somerset, North Petherton
Ann K, 14, scholar, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge
Henry W, 10, scholar, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge
Sarah A, 5, scholar, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge
Susannah, 3, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge
And 15 lodgers
Gadget
Ann Kate married Charles Wood in 1898
In 1901, the Trott family
Now here's a turn up for the books:
in 1901:
RG13/5047 Folio 25 Page 41
Trott's Lodging House, Cowbridge
Henry Trott, 60, Coal Merchant and Lodging House Keeper, b. Somerset, North Petherton
Ann, 50, b. Somerset, North Petherton
Henry W, s, 20, saddler, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge
Annie, d,15, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge (Sarah A on the 1891)
Minnie, d,13, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge (Susannah on 1891)
Henry Wood, Grandson, 2, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge
So is this the same Henry who is down as aged 6 with Charles and Kate and a duplicate entry (it often happened) or what :o ??? ??? :o
Gadget
In 1901, The Wood family:
1901 Wales Census, Bridgend, Glamorgan
Charles Wood 41 Head Painter born Barrow in Furness Lancs
Kate Wood 39 Wife born Glamorgan Cowbridge
Henry Wood 6 Son born Edinburgh
William Wood 8mths Son born Glamorgan Cowbridge
This last one is probably a wrongly recorded age for Kate (Ann Kate)
Gadget
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Yes it is confusing. And the Annie confused me there. But there is a problem with the birth years for Henry. Maybe one should look for second Wood Trott connection/marriage.
On both mine and my hubbys side sisters from one family have been known to marry brothers from another.
Linda
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On the birth certificates, the mother is given as both Kate Ann Trott and Ann Kate Trott. The father is Charles Wood.
Charles Wood married Ann Kate Trott in 1898.
Gadget
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I believe this to be Charles on the 1891 Wales census
Wales, Glamorgan, Eglwysilan
Household # 180
Address: looks like Porrott Inn
John Jenkins Head
Barbara Jenkins wife
Barbarra Jenkins daughter
Charles Wood age 21 single boarder born Devon England occupation may be employed as coal Haulaur?
William Preston boarder
Linda
Not sure about this one, Linda :-\
He was 41 on the 1901 and born Barrow in Furnace.
I've ordered the marriage cert so that we can at least get the parents and ages sorted.
You Canadians are going to have to give me a big party when I get over in the next couple of years ;D ;D ;D
Gadget
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If we really trusted census listings we'd think these were all separate families! ;D
Wow, Gadget...you're headed here? Make sure you look at the right scale of map before you come...haha
Hubby's cousin wanted to visit Montreal for the races...Only a little jaunt according to their map....
I told them we can fit around double the whole U.K. into our Province alone...still didn't sink in until the sore bum from travelling....
Bet you've decided to come mid-winter, what with all this talk about the cold and snow and such! :-X
What I saw was an Anne Kate Addicott : submission born perhaps to Kate's uncle Richard.?..just wanted to satisfy my curiousity...
There are many Addicotts covered on the IGI...saw no extracted, but many with complete dates....so that
should be fun for Roger to look through... and obviously submitted by his distant rellie as well, if a name can be found... J.J.
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J.J.
Gadget has lived in Ont. before so she knows the distances ;D
She's on for a good dinner at least for her help :D
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I remember going on the Rapido (was it?) from Montreal to Toronto. Got to Toronto to find no luggage where I'd left it.
Investigations found that because it still had the Montreal airport stickers on it, they'd taken it off at the airport station :'( :'( :'(
Had to wait hours for it to be put on the next train. Not nice.
I did get as far as Lake Huron once but I spent most of my time in Southern Ontario. Spent time in Montreal as well and loved it!
I'm trying to draw an annotated chart of where I'm at with Willie's family - not sure how long it will take me. i do wish they wouldn't tell fibs on censuses though :-\ They all did it. My Scottish lot were always lying about their ages and changing their names ::)
Gadget
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Henry Trott and Ann Addicott's known children (all Bridgend RD) :
Ann Kate - reg March q, 1877 - aged 4 on the 1881 census, 14 on the 1891 and 39 ::) on the 1901
Henry William - reg Dec q, 1880 - wrongly down as aged 5 on 1881 census when he was probably 5 months and listed after Ann Kate ::)
Sarah Ann - reg March q, 1886 - aged 5 on the 1891 as Sarah A but is Annie on the 1901
Susan Amelia - reg Sept q, 1887 - aged 3 on the 1891 as Susannah but is Minnie on the 1901
I still think the Henry Wood (2 and 6 on the 1901) are a duplicate entry and the ages are just wrongly entered in some way or other.
Gadget
PS - don't hold your breath waiting for this annotated diagram/chart - it could take a few days ::) ::) ::)
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I'll concentrate on the Trott line in the diagram. I've got some Somerset resources because OH has ancestors from down there and as I know the geography of down there and the Glamorgan area it should be fairly accurate.
Head getting muzzy though - the antibiotics are affecting me more than the symptoms they're supposed to cure :(
Gadget
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Thanks Gadget,
it will help us to sort things out but please get plenty of sleep and let the drugs do their work.
Roger and I have plans to get together next Tuesday PM our time. My agenda is to show him how to populate his tree with the findings.
We are both a bit boggled at the moment ;D ;D ;D
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Not surprised that you're boggled. It's an awful lot to take in. Roger's now got a great big family.
All those Trotts and Addicotts and Ingrams - not to mention the Woods :o
Gadget :)
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Ingrams ??? ooerr! I missed summat :-[
I'd better go back and take a look.
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A couple that J.J. found earlier and I picked up from the Somerset Marriage Index
A marriage for Edward Addicott and Ann Ingram from Somerset Marriage index (FHO):
30 December 1827, North Petherton
No other details
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Ah right! got it :)
J.J. sent the image to me so it's safe.
Pheww! that's a long way back tho and we will be working backwards (so to speak) ;D
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England calling Canada :)
I've done quite a bit of the summary but I've been held up ( by A being up and down )with doing some checks on three Trott birth registrations that I've found - need to check if they died before 1881.
Monday probably now...
Gadget
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so we're at a walk instead of a trot(t)??? ;D ;D
dollylee
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Well, just got my computer back up and running...but looking back at my goofy thought that we were looking for the OLDER Ann not the younger, duh...
::) anyhoo, I tried to redo the summary up to date in a word file, but is was a real shmozzle to me, so wouldn't really help anyone at this stage...especially with Gadget doing a complete layout... so
Think I'll butt out and just pop in once in a while to OHHH and Ahhhh ;D
J.J.
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so we're at a walk instead of a trot(t)??? ;D ;D
dollylee
What started as a walk in the Wood, developed into a Trott ;D
All in all, a wonderfull journey and Roger has his very own family ;D ;D ;D
Thank you all for your contributions :-* :-* :-*
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Pretty witty Dollylee ;D...didn't catch that until genie added her own wit... :-X J.J.
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and guess what - I think we've got a Trott marrying a Trott/Tratt (Henry's parents) ::) ::) ::)
Two Trotts = ?
Gadget ;D ;D ;D ;D
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FreeBMD ..... 5 names on the page for Q1 1842 Bridgwater.
John Trott, Harriet Trott, Elizabeth Gardener :-\
V 10 P 529
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No It's John Trott and Sarah Tratt in 1850 ;D
I checked the handwritten one just in case because Sarah's father was down in the 1861 as Trott ::)
This is turning into a magnum opus or something. I'm now on page 5 and haven't got to Ann Addicott and the Ingrams or done the tree bit yet ::) ::) ::)
What's taking the time is the checking and double checking and getting all the refs!
Patience is a virtue ;)
Gadget - who doesn't have much ;D ;D ;D
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Egad :o 5 pages.
Gadget , you are a marvel ;D
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no - just mad ::)
Added - think I'll call it a day now - it's 1.18 am here. I'll try to get it finished for you tomorrow :)
Gadget
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is Tratt the past tense of Trott?? :P
This thread gets curiouser and curiouser ;D
dollylee
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is Tratt the past tense of Trott?? :P
This thread gets curiouser and curiouser ;D
dollylee
No, no, no Dolly .... where is your English >:(
the tense is surely t'other way about......
as in... sat is to sit or sh .... Oh! never mind ;D :D ;D :D
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I'm having to split what I've written into 4 separate messages because of character restrictions for postings. I'll send Genie the full word document by e-mail.
I've yet to draw up the tree but will do that shortly.
Hope it makes sense.
Gadget
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William Wood (Willie Woods) most probably left Liverpool for Canada on 27 September 1906 on the Kensington, a ship of the Dominion Line, sailing to Quebec.
The passenger list includes Kate Wood, 30, wife, William Wood, 6 and John Wood, 2. It arrived Quebec on 7th October 1906 and lists Kate Woods, 30, William, 6 and J, 2, all from Wales and Kate joining her husband.
William Wood was born on 12th July 1900 at Eagle Lane, Cowbridge, Glamorgan:
Click for Map (http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&X=299000.65639265&Y=174750.865674016&width=700&height=400&gride=299561.65639265&gridn=174673.865674016&srec=0&coordsys=gb&db=freegaz&addr1=&addr2=&addr3=&pc=&advanced=&local=&localinfosel=&kw=&inmap=&table=&ovtype=&keepicon=true&zm=0&scale=5000&right.x=712&right.y=212)
The present day map shows it to be just off the High Street.
His father was Charles Wood, a painter (journeyman) and his mother was given as Kate Ann Wood, formerly Trott. Charles Wood was the informant and gave his address as Picton Cottage, Llanblethian. This is just to the South West of the centre of Cowbridge:
Click for Map (http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&X=298500&Y=174000&width=700&height=400&gride=299561.65639265&gridn=174673.865674016&srec=0&coordsys=gb&db=freegaz&addr1=&addr2=&addr3=&pc=&advanced=&local=&localinfosel=&kw=&inmap=&table=&ovtype=&keepicon=true&zm=0&out.x=5&out.y=14&scale=10000)
His younger brother, James, was born on 24th January 1903 at 16 The Rhiew, Bridgend. Father, Charles Wood, is now a painter and decorator (journeyman) and kate has had her first names reversed. She is recorded as Ann Kate Wood, formerly Trottt. Charles was the informant again and was living at 16 The Rhiew, very close to the Ogmore River and the town centre:
Click for Map (http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&X=291000&Y=180000&width=700&height=400&gride=290371.69773712&gridn=179869.19849535&srec=0&coordsys=gb&db=freegaz&addr1=&addr2=&addr3=&pc=&advanced=&local=&localinfosel=&kw=&inmap=&table=&ovtype=&keepicon=true&zm=0&scale=25000&multimap.x=322&multimap.y=184)
The GRO marriage index lists Charles Wood and Ann Kate Trotter on the same index page June Quarter, 1898, Newport (Mon), Vol. 11a, Page 343. (This is expected 21st Feb)
The information on the birth certificates, especially James’s, confirms this family on the 1901 census as being the correct one:
16 The Rhiew, Bridgend, Glamorgan
RG13/5050 Folio 37 Page 7
Charles Wood , head, mar, 41, Painter, b. Barrow in Furness, Lancashire
Kate Wood, wife, mar, 39, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge
Henry Wood, son, unm, 6, b. Edinburgh
William Wood, son, unm, 8mths, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge
And 13 lodgers
A thorough search failed to find either a Charles Wood or an Ann Kate Trott/Kate Ann Trott being born in either birth places (Registration Districts Ulverston and Bridgend) around the dates given in the above census (i.e. 1859 – 1862).
The nearest matches for Charles Wood are:
Charles James Wood, June Quarter, 1868, Ulverston, Vol. 8e, Page 750
Alfred Charles Wood, Sept. Quarter, 1869, Ulverston, Vol. 8e, Page 708
(Awaiting marriage cert to confirm if either are him)
The only Ann Kate/Kate Ann, and variations, Trott born in the area was:
Ann Kate Trott, March Quarter, 1877, Bridgend, Vol. 11a, Page 575
This Ann Kate has been identified with her family on the 1881 and 1891 censuses in Cowbridge:
1881
West Village, Cowbridge
RG11/5329 Folio 28 Page 50
Henry Trott, hd, m, 35, road labourer, b. Somerset, North Petherton
Ann Trott, wife, m, 27, tollgate keeper, b. Somerset, North Petherton
Ann K. Trott, d, unm, 4, scholar, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge
Henry W. Trott, s. unm, 5, born Glamorgan, Cowbridge
(Information about Henry had been wrongly entered on the census sheet. He was actually about 5 months old. See below)
1891
Globe Inn, Cowbridge
RG12/4453 Folio 6 Page 6
Henry Trott, hd, m, 45, Licensed Victualler, b. Somerset, North Petherton
Ann, 34, wife, m, b.Somerset, North Petherton
Ann K, d, unm, 14, scholar, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge
Henry W, s, unm 10, scholar, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge
Sarah A, d, unm, 5, scholar, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge
Susannah, d, unm, 3, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge
And 15 lodgers
/contd...
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And in 1901 the family are without Ann Kate
Trott's Lodging House, Cowbridge
RG13/5047 Folio 25 Page 41
Henry Trott, hd, m, 60, Coal Merchant and Lodging House Keeper, b. Somerset, North Petherton
Ann, wife, m, 50, b. Somerset, North Petherton
Henry W, s, unm, 20, saddler, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge
Annie, d, unm, 15, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge (Sarah A on the 1891)
Minnie, d,unm, 13, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge (Susannah on 1891)
Henry Wood, Grandson, 2, b. Glamorgan, Cowbridge
One of the problems here is the presence of two Henry Woods in the 1901 census: one with Charles and Kate, aged 6 and born Edinburgh and one with Kate’s parents, aged 2, grandson and born Cowbridge. Three possibilities come to mind. First, a double entry: Henry was staying with his grandparents but was also entered with his parents. A situation which is not unusual. However, there is an age and place of birth discrepancy and, if this is the case, which was the correct entry? Second, there were two Henry Woods, one the child of an earlier marriage of Charles and one the first child of Kate and Charles (m. 1898). Thirdly, it could be that Henry Wood was the son of one of Henry and Ann’s other daughters, who might also have married a Wood.
A possible marriage entry for a Henry Trott and an Ann Addicott has been found which fits with their ages: Bridgewater, March Q, 1872, Vol.5c, Page 627.
The following births are registered for the Trott family (all Bridgend RD):
Ann Kate: March q, 1877
Henry William: Dec q, 1880 (possible marriage, December Q, 1905, Bridgend)
Sarah Ann: March q, 1886 - on the 1891 as Sarah A but is Annie on the 1901 (possible marriage, December Q, 1904, Cardiff)
Susan Amelia: Sept q, 1887 - on the 1891 as Susannah but is Minnie on the 1901 (possible marriage December Q, 1903, Bridgend)
However, if Henry and Ann married in 1872, there is a 5 year gap between the marriage and Ann Kate’s birth, which seems a rather long interval. Searches for other Trott births in the 1872-77 period show three in Bridgend: Albert John, 1874; Courtnay, 1875; and Alice, 1878. These three were the children of a John and Elizabeth Trott, also living in Cowbridge (East Village) in the 1881 census. Another Trott birth was registered in Bridgend in 1882 – Edwin who died in 1884.
The census information gives various possible dates of birth for Henry Trott (the 1901 gives circa 1840 and the 1891 and 1881 suggest a birth date circa 1846). However, his place of birth is consistent throughout as North Petherton, Somerset.
There are two possible Henry Trott’s in the earlier censuses:
1871:
53 Powell’s Row, Ebbw Vale, Monmouthshire
RG10/5325 Folio 28, Page:21
George Smarr(?), hd, m, 32, labourer, b. Wiltshire
Eliza, wife, m, 29, b. Chew Magna
William George, boarder, unm, 20, labourer, b.Corsley, Wilts
James Jones, boarder, widr, 48, labourer, b. Builth, Brecon
Henry Trott, boarder, unm, 20, labourer, b. Petherton, Somerset
This Henry is slightly younger (b.c. 1851) than ‘our’ Henry but is the only one showing as being born in Petherton . Following this one back to 1861, this family look a strong possibility:
Kings Cliff, North Petherton
RG9/1622 Folio 74 Page 12
John Trott, hd, widow, 73, Thatcher, b. Somerset, Creech St. Michael
John Trott, son in law, 31, Thatcher, b. Somerset, West Monkton
Sarah, d, mar, 34, Thatcher (Wife), b. Somerset, North Petherton
Samuel J, grds, unm, 14, scholar, b. Somerset, North Petherton
Henry, grds, unm, 10, scholar, b. Somerset, North Petherton
Mary Ann, grdd, unm, 7, b. Somerset, North Petherton
John, grds, unm, 5, b. Somerset, North Petherton
Frank, grds, unm, 3, b. Somerset, North Petherton
In 1851:
Overton, West Monkton
HO107/1923 Folio 299 Page 21
John Trott, hd, mar, 21, Thatcher, b. Somerset, West Monkton
Sarah, wife, mar, 24, b. Somerset, West Monkton
Samuel, s, unm, 4, b. Somerset, North Petherton
Henry, s, unm, 4 mths, b. Somerset, North Petherton
The closest birth registration for this Henry is Dec q 1850, Taunton, Vol. 10 Page 457. North Petherton was in the Bridgewater Registration District but fairly close to Taunton (which includes West Monkton).
By 1871 this family seems to have dispersed (which would tie in with Henry being in South Wales) and Sarah dead:
Sherston Lane, Thurloxton, Somerset
RG10/2383 Folio 13 Page 12
John Trott, hd, mar, 41, Thatcher (Master), b. Somerset, North Petherton
Mary A, wife, mar, 40, dressmaker, b. Somerset West Monkton
And a possible death for Sarah in the Mar Q, 1864, Bridgewater.
/contd...
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The other family ties in more closely with Henry’s age but not birth place.
1871
Rydon, North Petherton Somerset
RG10/2382 Folio40, Page 12
Thomas Trott, hd, mar, 40, Ag. lab, b. Somerset, Duncard
Jane, wife, mar, 50, b.Somerset, Martock
Henry, son, unm, 25, labourer, b.Somerset, Duncard
Elizabeth, d, unm, 10, b. Somerset, West Hatch
On checking the 1861, this is likely to be Donyatt, near Ilminster. In this census (1861) this Henry is born Broadway, just north of Donyatt.
Although John and Sarah are the most likely parents for Henry, his age is slightly younger than that given on later censuses. Henry’s marriage certificate is likely to be the only way of establishing who his father was and it is probably unwise to go back any further with this line until we have this evidence.
/cont....
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If the marriage of 1872 was correct, Henry’s wife was an Ann Addicott, born North Patherton between 1850 and 1857 according to her census ages. This should be verified by obtaining Ann Kate’s birth certificate (see above for reference).
The 1871 census has a probable Ann working as a domestic servant at a dairy in Lyng, near Bridgewater:
Roadside or Readside, Lyng, Bridgewater, Somerset
RG10/2384 Folio 80 Page 10
?Innperona Hillman, wid, 60, Dairy woman, b. Somerset, ?
George Hillman, s, 28, Dairy man, b. Somerset, ?
Francis Hillman, s, 20, Dairy man, b. Somerset, ?
Ann Addicott, serv, 20, Servant, b. Somerset, North Petherton
In the 1861, the only Ann that seems to fit is:
High Street, North Petherton
RG9/1622 Folio 71 Page 6
Ann Addicott, head, widow, 52, ? labourer,
Richard, 16, ag lab
Joseph, 13, ag lab
Ann, 12, ag lab
Edward, lodger, unm, 28
Job, lodger, unm, 20
All born Somerset, North Petherton
In 1851
North Moor Green ?Drove, North Petherton
HO107/1924 Folio 259 Page 7
Ann Addicott, 40, widow, labourer
Job, 12, labourer
William, 9
Richard, 7
Joseph, 5
Ann, 2
All born North Petherton
1841
Near Moorland House, North Petherton
HO107/953 Book 7 Folio 24 page 14
Edward Addicott, 30-34 Lab
Ann, 30-34
Amelia, 12
Edward, 10
Louisa, 8
Job, 2
William, 3 mths
All born County
If this is the correct family, a likely birth registration for Ann Addicott, Ann Kate’s mother, is September Q, 1848, Bridgewater, Vol. 10, Page 360. Also, there is a marriage for an Edward Addicott and an Ann Ingram on 30 December 1827, North Petherton in the Somerset Marriage index (FHO). This parentage would be confirmed by Ann’s birth certificate.
It seems unwise, at this stage to proceed any further back with Ann Kate Trott’s line until the following are obtained:
• Ann Kate Trott’s birth certificate
Ann Kate Trott, March Quarter, 1877, Bridgend, Vol. 11a, Page 575
• If the birth certificate confirms parents as above, Henry Trott
and Ann Addicotts marriage certificate
Henry Tortt, Bridgewater, March Q, 1872, Vol.5c, Page 627.
This marriage certificate would give the ages of the couple and their fathers’ occupations and these lines could then be further investigated.
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I've been trying to get a full tree up but it would make a very wide screen - and I hate those, so here's a direct line tree as far as we've gone.
Any ancestor before Charles Wood and Ann Kate Trott (in top green shading) should only be seen as probables at the moment - just pencilled in to await further info.
Regards
Gadget :)
I'll try another way of doing the full tree :-\
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Genie ~
If you'd like the Gedcom of what I've entered so far, let me know and I can send it - saves you and Roger a lot of typing :)
Gadget
Attached a sideways version of the full tree - green shading on the right denotes those who are probables only.
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Hi, I am Willie's son's brother, I live in the USA. Thank you all for the work you are doing, my sister and I have been reading some of your posts and are finding them very interesting. please continue, and if there is anything we can add we will let roger know. Thank you all again for your efforts!!! Larry & Jane
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Hi Larry & Jane :)
Welcome to RootsChat.
Nice to meet you.
I've got the Gedcom from Gadget and will be seeing Roger sometime this week when I will relay all Gadget's goodies to his PC.
Genie (long time friend of Roger) ;D
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Hi Gadget
I am new to RootsChat and don't real;y know how to do things properly. However, I am very interested in all your Trott data that I have just come across.
I have a very large database of Trott records, Births, marriages, deaths & census data.
I would like to hear from you (or any one else having Trott connections). :)
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Hi Yorick
Welcome to Rootschat :)
I don't have any Trotts but I know someone who does ;D
There seem to be masses in the SW and then a pocket in South Wales. Where is your main interest?
Have you seen the One Name Interest board:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,151.0.html
Gadget
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Gadget,
Thanks for your very prompt reply :)
I am a member of TONRG (Trott One Name Research Group) and hold and manage the main database (includes Tratts & Tretts etc.). Do a search for TONRG and see what I mean.
I am always looking for bits of info to add to or correct what I already have. I have already found the info about Henry Trott and Ann Addiscott useful (all due to orphan Willie ;D
Yes, Trott mainly came from Somerset/Devon area originally but a lot went to S Wales in the mid 19C.
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Think it was a two way flow. There were certainly many South Wales people in D & C as well. All those Williams and Jenkins, etc.
With the Bridgewater people, I was wondering if they just crossed over the Bristol Channel - do you know if this was the case? Otherwise it would have to be via Avonmouth, etc.
Gadget
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Thanks Gadget,
Any Trott info always useful. :)
I am off to bed now. Contact you again later.
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and curiouser and curiouser ;D ;D ;D
Blimey Gadget I can't believe the time and effort (above the research time) that you have put into this. Your generousity of both your time and pocketbook is just amazing. Willie's son and Willie's son's brother must be thrilled !!!!
J.J. made an excellent choice when she asked you to join in the hunt!
dollylee
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I like a challenging puzzle, Dolly, and the rest of you were nearly there - I just got the missing link at the right time ;D
We've still got the Wood line to do when that cert arrives, so put your feet up for a few days ;)
Gadget
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I certainly didn't mean to down play the participation of ALL the people who have had input on this thread. Many different people found different clues, spent time searching for clues or contributed in one way or another.
J.J. kept things on track with the updates and her observations and comments. She also found information that she sent on to others in pm's.
I was just really blown away when I saw the information all put together and the resulting tree and realized how time consuming that would be to do.
I should have put more thought into my last post and congratulated everyone for doing such a wonderful job.
dollylee
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;D Haha, don't worry about me...The main thing was to get the query solved... We all have our little victories in finding things or completing a query, but no matter what we all have the same goal....success. This was a bit of a stressfull one as none of our databases were working properly at the beginning...and even the findmypast site had a hiccup. I'll be more diligent and try again at different times of day now that i know ( Dollylee & I tried all sorts of combinations and it came up empty, so I imagine we weren't the only ones)...I think they go boom because there are hundreds of rootschatters attacking them daily!
I am very proud of how the helpers on the Canada board work so well together.... I got Gadget in because she is aces with her knowlege of Scotland & Wales ...both were mentioned on the census...and she just happened to connect with the data...and also was able to wrap her mind around the whole darn thing.
Hugs to all of you, J.J.
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Hi All
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Hi All
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Hi Roger ;D
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Hi Again
It seems I am hitting the wrong button and sending the posting before I am finished.
I think your all hitting on all 8 cylinders, it sure looks like you have got the right track.
Speaking for myself and the rest of my siblings we are thrilled. The only word to come close to describing the feelings.
And Gadget I think a dinner is in order.
Will have that on the agenda when you hit Canada.
I will be getting together with Genie in the next day or two, seem to have so much going on right now.
She will help me put this in order.
Take care
and Thanks again
Willys son
Roger
;D
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Hi Everyone -
I am Willie's son's sister - at least one of them - and I also live in the U.S. I want to add my thanks to everyone for all of the efforts and time spent on searching for information regarding our father and ancestors. I agree with my brother, we are thrilled. We are looking forward to receiving news that the right family has been found and of course, the proof in birth/marriage certificates, etc. And Gadget, if Willie's son promises you dinner while you are in Canada, I hope it will be at his home. It will be a better dinner than you will eat in any restaurant. Trust me, I know.
Jane
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Hi Everyone ;D
Today, we have received the marriage cert. of Charles Wood & Ann Kate Trott. Many thanks to Gadget.
The quest for Willys Son's ancestors continues .....
Please see topic:- http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,287716.0.html
I thank each and everyone of you who have helped so much.
I think Roger has the hang of things now so it's over to him.
As the quest has shifted back in time to the U.K. I am going to lock this thread.
Thanks Team Canada.
Genie ;D ;D ;D
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I have unlocked the topic due to a request from a new chatter here who would like to join in.
Please note that Genie who started this topic has since passed away.
I know there have been replies from other family members.
If you want to continue off-forum, please exchange email addresses on the personal message system, a post count of 2 and above is required for access to the system
http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
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Good morning.
My great granddad was James Charles woods. He came to Canada with his brother and parents. His mother died and the boys were placed for adoption. My granddad did not want to be adopted like his brother because he felt his dad was coming back. He married my great grandma Maude. Until last night I only knew the last name of the adoptive family. So words can not tell you how thankful I am for everything I have read so far..I would love to hear from others in the family to put more of this together. Thank you again
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Hi Girl ;D
Welcome to Rootschat ;D
Most of the people in this topic haven't been online here for ages but should receive an email notification that you have posted and hopefully come back soon.
If they don't you could try sending hem a personal message but both chatters need a post count of 2 and above, some don't have that.
Maybe though once you are in contact with one, your details can be passed on.
Hope this helps.
Dawn
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Dawn,
Thanks so much. I will do that.
Amanda
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I am floundering around on this site and not doing well, I used to have my friend to help but unfortunately for me and many people she has passed and I don't do well on my own.
Will try, I am looking to contact dawnsh and vgraham
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You are doing just fine!!! There are now many ads on here in between the important stuff... so harder to focus on what's what as we get older. So just try to focus on the reply button and the posts themselves. I almost quit the site myself, as I have an issue that makes busy visuals all run together... ::) :P
Yes, we all miss Jeanette as well. Joyful gal. She taught you well, though, and you've found the reply button. ;D Now you will be in touch with your distant cousin Amanda (username "Girl").
To see her post, scroll down to see the list of numbers in a row...that is the amount of pages on this thread...30. Hit the number 29 as that is the previous page where she replied. To contact her look at the instructions below.
Welcome to the Rootschat site, Girl! If either of you have more questions of researchers on this topic, as Dawn suggested continue on the next thread which was added for more searches. (Link below this paragraph) To speak with each other in private and to exchange email addresses, the personal message prompt is the little icon (denotes a sheet of paper with words on it) beside the little head, below the person's avatar....which is to the left of every reply/post which that person has made. I added an image below with a blue arrow pointing to the private Message ( P.M.) icon. If they are currently online it will be green as shown. The wee house icon between just means a website.
The new thread http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,287716.0.html
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J.J
Thanks so very much for the welcome. And I do agree it can become so overwhelming to navigate on line. But I can not say how thankful I am for all the information that everyone has pulled together here. It answers so many questions about granddad woods.
Amanda