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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: whiteroselass on Tuesday 29 January 08 19:19 GMT (UK)

Title: Frank and George Cardwell
Post by: whiteroselass on Tuesday 29 January 08 19:19 GMT (UK)
I have a photo taken from a local newspaper in 1918 recording the deaths in action in France of
Frank Cardwell dob 1900  Doncaster Vol 9c p878  Killed in action 4/9/1918
Edward Cardwell dob 1895 Doncaster Vol 9c p880 Killed in action 20/7/1918

Would it be possible to inprove the quality?

Also if anyone can help with more information regarding the 2 boys I would be most grateful.  They were cousins both serving with the Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry (KOYLI's)
Title: Re: Frank and George Cardwell
Post by: cheshiremog on Tuesday 29 January 08 23:01 GMT (UK)
From Soldiers Died in the Great War

62067 Private Frank Cardwell K.O.Y.L.I 5th Btn
born - Doncaster
enlisted - Doncaster
Died of Wounds 14/09/1918
Theatre of War - France & Flanders
Formerly 5/124153 T.R. BARTN

(T.R. = Training Reserve ?)
(BARTN ?)
Title: Re: Frank and George Cardwell
Post by: cheshiremog on Tuesday 29 January 08 23:04 GMT (UK)
From Soldiers Died in the Great War

18081 Private Edward Cardwell KOYLI
b. Doncaster
enl- Doncaster
Killed in Action 20/7/1918
Theatre of War - France & Flanders
Title: Re: Frank and George Cardwell
Post by: cheshiremog on Tuesday 29 January 08 23:20 GMT (UK)
Did your newspaper clippings have a write up too ?
These are often one of the best sources of information.

Frank died of wounds so was probably taken to one of the casualty clearing stations at Boisleux St Marc near Sunken Road Cemetery.

As for your photos - you need to go back to the home page on rootschat and post your photos into the 'photograph restoration' page and the photo experts will do their best to fix them.

How sad - two young cousins from the same family.  It was a slaughter of lambs.

Do you have their details on the 1901 Census ? If not - let me know and I will try to find them.

Title: Re: Frank and George Cardwell
Post by: whiteroselass on Wednesday 30 January 08 19:12 GMT (UK)
Thanks for all your help, I will post the photos on the restoration site.
No I do not have information from the 1901 census.  Would really appreciate your help with this.
I agree about Lambs to the slaughter, they were cousins of my Grandmother, I can't bear to think what is was like for the families, not just mine but hundreds like them.
Title: Re: Frank and George Cardwell
Post by: cheshiremog on Thursday 31 January 08 19:54 GMT (UK)
1901 Residence St James, West Ward, Doncaster - 38 Prospect Place

Frank Cardwell Head Mar 30 Iron Wheel Linisher b. Yorks, Doncaster
Annie E    Wife Mar 27 b. Gainsboro',Lincs
George H   Son 5 b. Doncaster
Emma   Dau  1     b. Doncaster
Frank  Son 1  b. Doncaster
Elizabeth Trollope Boarder Mar 30 b. Doncaster
Lilly Trollope Boarder 3 b. Doncaster

RG13/4413

I think a linisher finished rough metal - smoothed it to finish it - I think metal linishing is an engineering term.
Title: Re: Frank and George Cardwell
Post by: cheshiremog on Thursday 31 January 08 20:11 GMT (UK)
1901 - Residence St George's North Ward, Doncaster - 16 Factory Lane

William Cardwell Head Mar 42 Loco Engine Painter b. Doncaster
Annie Wife Mar 29 b. Leeds, Yorks
Edward son 6 b. Doncaster
Marian dau 3 b. Doncaster
Leonard son 18mos b. Doncaster
Henry  son 3mos b. Doncaster

RG13/4410
Title: Re: Frank and George Cardwell
Post by: cheshiremog on Thursday 31 January 08 20:27 GMT (UK)
1891 Residence 33 Baker Street, Doncaster RG12/3864

Quite a collection for you !  :D

John Cardwell Head Mar 55?  53? Engine Fitter b. Leeds, Yorks
Emma  Cardwell  Wife  56 b. Doncaster
Frank   Cardwell  Son  20  Wheel Turner  b. Doncaster
Milner Cardwell   Son 17  Butcher's Apprentice b. Doncaster
Tom ?  Cardwell  Son  13 Scholar  b. Doncaster
Fred  Cardwell  Son  10 Scholar b. Doncaster
Lillian Cardwell  8 GRAND DAUR b. Doncaster
Laura SMITH Dau  Mar 21 b. Doncaster
Agnes SMITH G/Daur 10 mos b. Doncaster
Edith Barker G/Daur 4 Scholar b. Yorks, Fairburn

1881 Residence 30 Baker Street, Doncaster

TOM ? Cardwell  Head 45 Engine Fitter b. Leeds
Emma Cardwell wife 46 b. Doncaster
Alice  Cardwell Dau 18 unm Domestic Servant b. Doncaster
John T ? Cardwell 17  unm Grocers Errand Boy b. Doncaster
Laura Cardwell dau 11 unm scholar b. Doncaster
Frank Cardwell son 10 scholar b. Doncaster
Arthur Cardwell son 8 scholar b. Doncaster
Milner Cardwell son 7 scholar b. Doncaster
Tom Cardwell son 3 b. Doncaster
Fred Cardwell son 9 mos  b. Doncaster

Still looking for William born about 1859  !!  Yes there were even more!!
Title: Re: Frank and George Cardwell
Post by: janan on Thursday 31 January 08 20:35 GMT (UK)
Hi
Have you already seen these from the Commonwealth War Graves site?

http://www.cwgc.org/search/certificate.aspx?casualty=284861

http://www.cwgc.org/search/certificate.aspx?casualty=611370

Jan ;)
Title: Re: Frank and George Cardwell
Post by: cheshiremog on Thursday 31 January 08 20:42 GMT (UK)
1817 Residence 30 Baker Street Doncaster

Tom Cardwell Head Mar 35 Engine Fitter b Yorks Leeds
Emma Cardwell Wife Mar 36 b. Doncaster
George H  Cardwell 13
Alice 9
John T 7
Agnes 5
Arthur 3
Lorra 1
Frank 1mo
John Cardwell Father 65 Coachbody Maker b. Yorks, Wakefield

All children are sons or daus, all born Doncaster

But where is William Cardwell father of Edward Cardwell born 1895 ??
Title: Re: Frank and George Cardwell
Post by: cheshiremog on Thursday 31 January 08 21:12 GMT (UK)
Sorry one above should read 1871!

1861 explains more:-

1861 - Res- West St. James Street Doncaster
Tom Cardwell Hd Mar 25 Engine Erector?
Emma  Wife  26
Emily dau 7
George H son 3
Lilley dau 8 mos
Mother and all children b. Doncaster

1861- Res - No 13 Mill ?  Street, Doncaster
John Cardwell Head 56 Coach maker Journeyman b. Wakefield
Mary Ann Cardwell wife 55 b.Notts Newark
Elizabeth Cardwell dau unm 23 Gen Serv b. Leeds
Emma Cardwell dau unm 20 Gen Serv b. Leeds
Cornelius Cardwell  Son unm 18 Labourer Ind b. Sheffield
Arthur Cardwell son 16 Apprentice Moulder b. Sheffield
William H Cardwell SON 1 b. Doncaster
Sarah A Palfreyman Nurse-child 3 mos b. Doncaster

Very interesting - I would be surprised if William H Cardwell was the son of Mary Ann aged 55 ! There is a 'nurse child' in the house - have not seen this before ?  Which of the females were 'nursing' her - if that's what it means - was William H the son of John & Mary ? Or was he the son of Tom & Emma  and should have been listed as a grand son ?  Or was he maybe the son of one of the daughters - Elizabeth or Emma and to save embarrasment he was listed as a son rather than grandson? As William H was born 1859 you should be able to get his birth certificate if you are interested.

My - Tom & Emma had a lot of children ! That should keep you going on FREEBMD for a while!

I have checked the 1891 again and it definately says 33 Baker St (not 30) and the head is John.  On the 1881 & 1871 is says 30 Baker Street and the head is Tom.  Wonder if he was a John.T ?

If you need any help just give me a shout! :D
Title: Re: Frank and George Cardwell
Post by: whiteroselass on Friday 01 February 08 19:22 GMT (UK)
WOW.  What a response, I do have quite a bit of information regarding the family but you have filled in alot of missing pieces in the jigsaw.  With so many in the families it is easy to be sidetracked.  There are alot of interesting facts coming to light,  and I will work through all you have sent.

Thanks again.

Chris
Title: Re: Frank and George Cardwell
Post by: whiteroselass on Friday 01 February 08 20:21 GMT (UK)
Hi Cheshiremog
Tom and Emma did have loads of children but they lost the following as children

John Thomas  1859 - 22/6/1863
Lilley               1860 - 19/6/1863
Agnes             1866 - 1872
Arthur             1872 - 1885
Tom                1875 - 1877

I agree it is a mystery as to where William Fred was in 1871 - he was my greatgrandfather and his daughter Marian my grandmother.  He would have been 12 at the time and maybe gone to stay with relatives - they maybe needed the room!!!!!.
Title: Re: Frank and George Cardwell
Post by: cheshiremog on Saturday 02 February 08 13:49 GMT (UK)
Hi Chris
On the 1861 William H (also lokked like William F) is with his grandfather John.
On the 1871 he is with his sister??  Jane and her husband Leonard Outwin.  I had to look at three census to get Jane & Leonard's surnames and still not entirely sure as very hard to read and often mis-transcribed.  Looks like Outwin.

1852 Q1 Double Marriage:-
Jane Cardwell m. Leonard Outwin in Doncaster
on same page
Mary Ann Cardwell m. Alexander Mackie

1861 Doncaster 21 Cemetery Road

Leonard Outwin Hd Mar 32 Locomotive Fitter b. Yorks Clayton
Jane   wife 29 b. London ??
Kate Dau 7 b. Donc
John Henry Son 4 b. Donc
Lucy Dau 2 b. Donc

1871 Doncaster South Union Street
Leonard Ontwin? Hd Mar 41 Carriage Fitter b. Yorks, C??
Jane wife 39 b. Middx London
Kate dau 17 unm b. Donc
John H Son 14 Farmers Servant b. Donc
Lucy Dau 12 scholar b. Donc
Leonard son 6 scholar b. Donc
WILLIAM H? F? CARDWELL nephew 11 Scholar b. Donc
Thomas Schofield Lodger 63 Shoe Maker b. Yorks Fishlake
Title: Re: Frank and George Cardwell
Post by: cheshiremog on Saturday 02 February 08 13:54 GMT (UK)
Don't quite see where Hane Cardwell fits in - especially as she is born in London ?  Do you know ?  Odd that William Cardwell is with his grandfather on the 1861 and with Jane in 1871?

1881 Res Shoreditch Hackney London
Jane Oulwin?  Widow 49 b. Shoreditch Middx
John Henry son 24 Labourer Road b. Donc
Lucy Johnston dau mar 22 Labourer's Wife b. Donc
Leonard  son 16 upholsterer b. Donc
George Baker 21 lodger b. Middx
Emma Johnson (yes says Johnson not Johnston) grand daur 1 b. Donc

On the 1861 Cemetery Road seemed to be populated by engine drivers & loco fitters and their families - so perhaps homes provided by their employers ?
Title: Re: Frank and Edward Cardwell
Post by: whiteroselass on Saturday 02 February 08 18:07 GMT (UK)
I dont have William Fred Cardwell as having a sister Jane, but he has an Aunt Jane(1831), who is the sister of his father Tom (1836). I have their parents as John Cardwell(1805) and Mary Ann Roadhouse(1806).

The only Mary Ann Cardwell(1866) I have is the daughter of Cornelius (1842) and Jane (1841), Cornelius being another brother of Tom and Jane above. This Mary Ann is not the one you found the marriage for as the marriage was in 1852.

This plot thickens. The Cardwells are relatives on my fathers side,  I am also researching my mothers side and my great grandmother on that side was a Wagstaff and I have also found connections to Shoreditch London with that side.

The reason Cemetery Road seems populated with engine drivers etc is that I live in Doncaster and the 'Plant' works, up until a few years ago were a major engine building works, the home of the Flying Scotsman and the Mallard, so no real surprise there.  Doncaster is on the main East Coast line half way between London and Edinburgh.

Thanks again, I need to really study all this and try to get things in some semblance of order.  Why did they have to have such large families and move about.  Going back to the Wagstaffs in Shoreditch, one of the Wagstaffs married a Sarah Toogood whose Uncle was a Colonial Export Merchant and one of his daughters was born in Sydney NSW!!!!.

Chris
Title: Re: Frank and George Cardwell
Post by: cheshiremog on Saturday 02 February 08 18:14 GMT (UK)
Hi Chris
Glad if it was of help
At least you have lots to go on plus other relatives who keep popping up on the census.
If you need anything else - just let me know

Mog
Title: Re: Frank and Edward Cardwell
Post by: whiteroselass on Saturday 02 February 08 19:43 GMT (UK)
You mentioned earlier about newspaper articles regarding the 2 young Cardwell soldiers Killed in Action.  Just thought you might be interested in the entry,

Doncaster Gazette, 27 Sept 1918

Mr & Mrs Cardwell of ^ Milton Street, Doncaster have been informed thet their younger son Private Frank Cardwell K.O.Y.L.I. died in a hospital overseas on September 15th form wounds recieved in action 2 days previously.  A sister at the hospital, in a sympathetic letter, say he did not suffer much pain and was so good a patient.  He was buried today, she adds, with all military honour, in our little cemetery just near here, right on the top of the hill.
The deceased was only eightenn years and eight months old and was educated at the Christ Church School.  Before enlisting he was employed at Messrs Woodhouse's brass foundry, Hexthorpe.  He joined up in January last and went to the front in June.
His cousin private Thomas M Cardwell, 67 Cemetery Road, Doncaster, was recently reported to be prisoner in Germany.



It is nice to know he was not alone at the end.

Title: Re: Frank and George Cardwell
Post by: cheshiremog on Saturday 02 February 08 22:09 GMT (UK)
Such a typical story - so young and not at the front very long.
Tragic.

Here is Thomas M on the 1901 - son of Milner

1901 Residence Bentley with Arksey? Doncaster - Millgate

Milner Cardwell Head Mar 27 Labourer b. Doncaster
Violet A      Mar 24 b. Notts Bawtry
Thomas M Cardwell son 3 b. Doncaster
Title: Re: Frank and George Cardwell
Post by: janan on Monday 04 February 08 10:41 GMT (UK)
Hi Whiteroselass

Have you seen this?

http://www.twgpp.org/information.php?id=412309

Jan ;)
Title: Re: Frank and George Cardwell
Post by: whiteroselass on Monday 04 February 08 21:54 GMT (UK)
Thanks Janan
That is brilliant, I have ordered a copy.  Unfortunately I could not find his cousin Frank but have emailed and asked if they have it.

You people never cease to amaze me.

Regards
Chris
Title: Re: Frank and George Cardwell
Post by: janan on Tuesday 05 February 08 11:20 GMT (UK)
Happy to help Chris :D

I was on there looking for one of mine and thought of your Cardwells.

Jan ;)
Title: Re: Frank and George Cardwell
Post by: whiteroselass on Friday 08 February 08 19:44 GMT (UK)
Hi Mog
I have just received William Fred Cardwell's birth certificate.  He was born 5/12/1859 to Elizabeth Cardwell.  Elizabeth is the daughter of John Cardwell and Mary Ann (Roadhouse) so he was the Grandson and not the son.  There is no father named on the birth certificate, so who my Great Great Grandfather was is another matter!!!

Thanks for your detective work
Title: Re: Frank and George Cardwell
Post by: bj102uk on Tuesday 22 February 11 21:50 GMT (UK)
think this may be my family now try jackson hatfield council
Title: Re: Frank and George Cardwell
Post by: symbol_of_hope on Wednesday 14 December 11 15:41 GMT (UK)
this is brilliant but i seem to have some different dates for some people. god knows though, so many cardwells moving about it's hard to keep up.
Title: Re: Frank and George Cardwell
Post by: rkitch on Sunday 10 August 14 12:02 BST (UK)
Frank Cardwell was my great uncle (my grandmother Elsie Cardwell's brother). His name is on the cenotaph in St James' Church, Doncaster.
Title: Re: Frank and George Cardwell
Post by: whiteroselass on Sunday 10 August 14 18:03 BST (UK)
Thank you for this, I will be there to take a photo asap.
Chris
Title: Re: Frank and Edward Cardwell
Post by: whiteroselass on Sunday 10 August 14 18:04 BST (UK)
In my previous posts I put Frank & George, it should have been Frank and Edward.  Oooops
Title: Re: Frank and George Cardwell
Post by: rkitch on Sunday 10 August 14 18:34 BST (UK)
I should have said war memorial inside church. Attached is a picture taken from internet.