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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Pilgarlic on Sunday 27 January 08 22:12 GMT (UK)
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Hello
I have ansestors with the surname MOUCHET. I have not come across this surname before. Would anyone know if it is an English surname. If not, could it be French ?
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It comes from the French Mouche, a nickname from the housefly, denoting a small light person, an insignificant one, or an irritating one. Mouchet is a French diminutive.
FRom "The Oxford Names Companion"
Stan
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One of the earliest entries for MOUCHET and variants on the IGI is for Jacob MOUCHETE baptised about 16th July 1643 at Threadneedle Street French Huguenot Church, London.
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Thanks to both of you for that. I have French blood in me ! :o
The earliest i have gone back is Samuel Mouchet. He is named on his daughter Sarah Mouchet's marriage cert in 1848 St Mary, Newington and deceased.
IGI has a Samuel Mouchet baptised 1801 Westminster, London son of Abraham Mouchet. Problem is that a friend of mine gave me an extract from 'The Ancestor' Vol 5 1903 stating that the children of Abraham all died unmarried and without issue.
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One of the earliest entries for MOUCHET and variants on the IGI is for Jacob MOUCHETE baptised about 16th July 1643 at Threadneedle Street French Huguenot Church, London.
If the Mouchet family were French Huguenots then you could contact the Huguenot Society
http://www.huguenotsociety.org.uk/family/
Stan
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Thanks for the link stanmapstone. I will definately contact The Huguenot Society. :)
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St Mary Lambeth parish registers have no coverage on the IGI and the family seem to be connected with Lambeth.
1851 census HO107 1573 folio 67
18 Regency Place Lambeth
William Joseph Head Married Porter to wine merchant Surrey Lambeth
Sarah Joseph Wife Married Bonnet maker Surrey Newington
Sarah Mouchet Mother Widow 59 Bonnet maker London Cripplegate
Caroline Mouchet Daughter 23 Unmarried Bonnet maker Lambeth Surrey
Civil registration for Mouchet in Lambeth up to 1851
Deaths Jun 1838
Mouchet Mary Ann Lambeth 4 216
Marriages Jun 1846
Mouchet Henry Lambeth 4 256
Births Mar 1848
MOUCHET Sophia Sarah Lambeth 4 250
Births Sep 1850
Mouchet Caroline Frances Lambeth 4 264
and
Deaths Sep 1849
Mouchett Thomas Lambeth 4 324
1851 census HO107 1573 folio 71
8 Regency Square Lambeth
Henry Mouchet 29 Head Married House painter Surrey Lambeth
Sophia Mouchet 27 Wife Married Boot binder Surrey Lambeth
Sophia Mouchet 3 Daughter Surrey Lambeth
Caroline Mouchet 8 Months Daughter Surrey Lambeth
Prerogative Court of Canterbury will
Will of Henry Ann Mouchet of Lambeth , Surrey 03 October 1788 PROB 11/1171
The only baptism in the St Mary Newington baptisms on the IGI
CAROLINE MOUCHET
Birth: 14 MAR 1797
Christening: 24 APR 1818 Saint Mary, Newington, Surrey
Father: HENRY MOUCHET
Mother: MARY
The earliest Mouchet Prerogative Court of Canterbury will
Will of Samuel Mouchet of Collombier Burgess of Neufchatel , Switzerland 02 December 1766 PROB 11/924
Regards
Valda
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Thanks Valda. Your a star. So much information there. Excellent !
The 1851 census family of William Joseph is my family.. The thing that stands out for me is the fact that he is a 'Porter to Wine Merchant'. My earlier post above gives my reason why i am unsure that his father in law Samuel Mouchet was the son of Abraham Mouchet. The thing is that Abraham Mouchet was a Wine Merchant in St Martins Lane, Westminster. :o
Is 'The Ancestor Vol 5 1903' correct ? What is the Ancestor Vol 5 anyway ?
Paul
P.S A lot of Mouchet's are from Westminster on the IGI.
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You can order Prerogative Court of Canterbury wills direct from The National Archives. An electronic copy costs £3.50
Will of Abraham Mouchet, Wine Merchant of Saint Anne Westminster , Middlesex
03 December 1793
PROB 11/1239
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/
The children of Abraham and Lucy Mouchet from the IGI's index of St Anne's Soho baptismal registers.
ANNE MOUCHET
Birth: 25 JAN 1757
Christening: 20 FEB 1757 Saint Anne Soho, Westminster, London
Father: ABRAHAM MOUCHET
Mother: LUCY
ABRAHAM JOHN MOUCHET
Birth: 05 JAN 1760
Christening: 20 JAN 1760 Saint Anne Soho, Westminster, London
Father: ABRAHAM MOUCHET
Mother: LUCY
SUSANNA MOUCHET
Birth: 30 OCT 1761
Christening: 15 NOV 1761 Saint Anne Soho, Westminster, London
Father: ABRAHAM MOUCHET
Mother: LUCY
JOHN ADELBERT MOUCHETT
Birth: 19 APR 1768
Christening: 13 MAY 1768 Saint Anne Soho, Westminster, London
Father: ABRAHAM MOUCHETT
Mother: LUCY
SARAH MOUCHET
Birth: 26 APR 1770
Christening: 29 MAY 1770 Saint Anne Soho, Westminster, London
Father: ABRAHAM MOUCHET
Mother: LUCY
DANIEL MOUCHET
Birth: 24 APR 1771
Christening: 03 JUN 1771 Saint Anne Soho, Westminster, London
Father: ABRAHAM MOUCHET
Mother: LUCY
If Samuel was the son of this Abraham then he would have been considerably older than his wife Sarah who from the 1851 census was born circa 1792.
A porter to a wine merchant is a very different class from what you would expect of a wine merchant's family. By 1861 William Joseph was a mason's labourer (1871 unemployed painter) so it looks as if William took what labouring jobs he was able to get and if so a porter to a wine merchant at the time of the 1851 census is not really significant compared with Abraham Mouchet's trade at the time of his death which was some some 58 years earlier in circa 1793.
Certainly Abraham John Mouchet married and had at least one child.
ABRAHAM MOUCHET
Birth: 16 FEB 1792
Christening: 30 MAR 1792 Saint Anne Soho, Westminster, London
Father: ABRAHAM JOHN MOUCHET
Mother: MARY
John Adelbert probably had at least two as Sophia was with her younger unmarried sister Susanna A on the 1851. Both were unmarried and annuitants. Susanna left a PCC will showing she and her sister had some inherited wealth to support them.
SOPHIA ADELBERT MOUCHETT
Christening: 11 JUL 1798 Saint Andrew, Holborn, London
Father: JOHN ADELBERT MOUCHETT
Mother: SOPHIA
Will of Susanna Adelbert Mouchet, Spinster of Saint Mary Islington , Middlesex 08 October 1855 PROB 11/2221
Daniel Mouchet also appears to have married and had children.
SOPHIA MOUCHET
Birth: 20 MAY 1797
Christening: 14 JAN 1798 Old Church, Saint Pancras, London
Father: DANIEL MOUCHET
Mother: SARAH
DANIEL MOUCHET
Birth: 16 NOV 1798
Christening: 13 JAN 1799 Old Church, Saint Pancras, London
Father: DANIEL MOUCHET
Mother: SARAH
JOHN ADELBERT LAWRENCE MOUCHET
Birth: 13 JUL 1799
Christening: 13 OCT 1799 Old Church, Saint Pancras, London
Father: JOHN ADELBERT MOUCHET
Mother: SOPHIA
Regards
Valda
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Hello Valda
I am really impressed and thankful for the research you have been doing on the Mouchet's. So much information ! :)
I should of said that on the IGI Samuel Mouchet was born and baptised in 1801 Saint Martin In The Fields, Westminster to parents Abraham John Mouchet and Mary. Not Abraham Mouchet and Lucy. This would make him only about nine years younger than wife Sarah. Apologies for not adding Abraham's middle name in my previous posts.
Yes - i see what you mean about William Joseph and his occupation's putting him in a different class to Abraham John Mouchet & Abraham Mouchet's occupation of both being Wine Merchants. By the way, on that marriage certificate it gives Samuel Mouchet's occupation as a Painter.
I am going to order and download that Will of Abraham Mouchet 1793 in a moment. Very exciting. I hope i will be able to read it ? I am not all that great at reading old hand writing !
Many thanks again valda. I need to take all this info in !
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There is an Abraham and Mary Mauchet, aged 80 and 75 (ages rounded down to the nearest 5 years) living in Anderson's Walk, St Mary, Lambeth in the 1841 Census. Abraham claims Independent Means. Both were NOT born in Surrey.
Reference HO107/1057/6 page 6.
I would say it is probable that these are the Abraham and Mary you have found on the IGI, christening a Samuel.
In case you don't have the Joseph family, they are at Regency Place, Lambeth in 1841. Same street as 1851. HO107/1055/1 page 37....
Francis Joseph 70 Laborer
Sarah 50
Mary 20
John 19 Carman
William 17 Barman (not Carman)
Robert 11 Shopboy
James 8 Shopboy
Alas, no sign of Samuel.
Nigel
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There are two more Mouchet brothers in the 1841 Census, that tie into Abraham John and Mary.
Rose Cottages, Bolingbroke Gardens, Battersea
Abraham 45 Artist, not born in Surrey
George 30 Author, not born in Surrey
HO107/1046/2 Page 10
Abraham matches the christening in 1792 at St Anne Soho
George could be the one chistened in 1803 at St Martin-In-The-Fields - he just lied about his age, as an author might to in his vanity!?
Both are to Abraham John and Mary Mouchet.
Abraham John married St Anne Soho 30 Mar 1791 to Mary Stedman.
Nigel
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Thanks Nigel
More Mouchet info coming my way. This is excellent news. :D
I have never been able to find Abraham John and Mary Mouchet on the 1841 census. I see that Ancestry.co.uk has their surname as MARCHEL ! Another breakthrough :D
Yes i agree these are the same Abraham John and Mary on the IGI. The most interesting fact is that they have moved into my families area of Lambeth. Also the two sons George and Abraham have moved south of the river. They are both unmarried which seems to back up the Ancestor Vol 5 1903 extract. I am beginning to wonder if my Samuel was an outcast of the family if he was a son to Abraham John ?
I have seen the 1841 census of my Joseph family before. Thanks anyway.
Here is the extract from The Ancestor Vol 5 1903 -
' The children of Mary Stedman and A. J. Mouchet all died unmarried and without issue. The last survivor was their only daughter, Mary Ann Mouchet, who was born 19 June 1793 and died 12 Mar 1886 in full possession of her faculties'
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It would be interesting to understand the context of the Ancestor extract, and who submitted it.
The concern is the lack of a marriage for Samuel, and no Samuel or Sarah in the 1841 Census. I use British Origins transcript which more complete (they claim) than Ancestry - and certainly offers much better search capability.As an aside, I found Daniel's (AJ's uncle) family remnants in Plymouth in 1841 (maybe a Navy connection?).
Perhaps it would be worth searching the burial records for St Martin's, to see if Samuel died an infant? I'll be doing that for my ancestors (Gallaway), same timeframe, later this year. I've made a note to look out for Mouchet.
Nigel
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Hello Nigel
The extract is taken from the ANCESTOR Vol 5 1903 ' RUSSELL FAMILY OF NEW BOND STREET' written by Aleyn Lyell Reade.
Mary Stedman's mother was Joanna Russell. Aleyn was a decendent of Mary Stedman's sister Anne Stedman who married James Read.
The start of the document states that ' The following pedigree represents my entire knowledge of the Russell family'
Yes i have never been able to find Samuel Mouchet or wife Sarah on the 1841 census either. Yes the St Martin's burial records may be worth a look at. Daniel's family in Plymouth ! Very interesting. According to Ancestry.co.uk newspaper records he was Wine Merchant and became bankrupt in 1797. Thanks for making a note on the Mouchet's. I hope you come up with something in the future.
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Is this Sarah in 1841?
HO107/1055/1 Folio 40 Page 29 (transcribed "Menhart")
Ryeney? Place, Kennington First, Lambeth, Surrey
Sarah M.....? 50 Bonnet mk Y
Sarah 15 Y
Henry 15 Painter Y
Caroline 10 Y
/
Joseph? 30 Hatter? Y
Harriet? 30 Y
Sarah? 10 Y
Joseph 10
Harriet 10
Wilfred/Alfred? 10m Y
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Hello CatOne
I do believe you have hit the jackpot for Sarah Mouchet and family in the 1841 census. Fantastic ! Thanks.
They are living at Regency Place as in the 1851 census. A Caroline and Henry are in the family which nicely fits with the Caroline and Henry who are named as witnesses to the marriage of Sarah Mouchet and William Joseph. Also the mum Sarah being a Bonnet Maker.
The big thing that stands out to me is the age of Alfred being 7 months. If this is a son this would put the father Samuel Mouchet's death in 1840 or 1841.
There are two Sarah's, two Joseph's and two Harriet's in the family. I wonder if this is a mistake ?
I can't believe i originally only asked if Mouchet was a French surname ! Thankyou to all of you who have helped me so far with the Mouchet's.
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Hi Paul,
Catone looks to have delivered!
The bottom 6 people look to be Joseph & Harriet as husband and wife with their children. Therefore Caroline (aged 10-14) is the last of Sarah and Samuel's children, suggesting he died over 10 years earlier?
On your original question....
Look at this, and enter Mouchet in the search - http://www.geneanet.org/ There are over 7000 entries mostly in France.
Cheers,
Nigel
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Hi Nigel
Yes of course you are right about Joseph & Harriet as husband and wife. Good spot :)
According to the 1851 census Caroline was born in 1828. This does indeed suggest that Samuel died about 1827/28. More pieces to the puzzle !
Thanks for the link to Geneanet. Wow. Mouchet is definately French. There are only 3 Mouchet entries for the United Kingdom. A lot of info to go on via the French lines if i can make a connection.
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If Joseph senior of the 1841 census really was a Mouchet aged approximately 30 (1841 census adult ages over 15 were ususally rounded down to the nearest 5) then his birth would be circa 1811 just therefore possibly the son of Sarah Mouchet but not a possible for a husband Samuel who was born (if baptised the year of his birth) in 1801. FreeBMD has no examples of a Joseph Mouchet or Mouchett in the civil registration index (very good coverage up to about 1910). No Harriet(t) Mouchets either or Wilfred or Alfreds. That may mean that family might not have actually been Mouchets and if so the ditto on the 1841 census could have been a mistake.
Regards
Valda
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You may be right Valda about Joseph & Harriet not being Mouchet's. I have been searching this evening but can't find them at all on any other census year.
I keep thinking about this baptism record you found for me yesterday -
CAROLINE MOUCHET
Birth: 14 MAR 1797
Christening: 24 APR 1818 Saint Mary, Newington, Surrey
Father: HENRY MOUCHET
Mother: MARY
I am struck by the names Caroline, Henry and the district being St Mary, Newington as we have now found that Caroline and Henry Mouchet were siblings of my Sarah Mouchet. Was Caroline a sister and Henry a father to my Samuel Mouchet ?
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CAROLINE MOUCHET
GEORGE ROBBERDS
Marriage: 26 APR 1818 Saint Giles, Camberwell, Surrey
1841 census HO107 1055/1 folio 36 page 20
? Place Kennington Lambeth
George Robburds 45 ?
Caroline Robburds 40
Mary Robburds 20
George Robburds 10
Jane Robburds 7
all born Surrey except George
George was a widower born London on the 1851 census, still in Lambeth, children all born Lambeth. On the 1851 census his occupation was a ? - silversmith.
Deaths Mar 1847
Robberds Caroline Lambeth 4 220
On the IGI coverage of St Mary Newington's baptisms only begins in 1813. There is really only very limited coverage of parish registers in the Southwark/Lambeth area for the period you are interested in. You will find more indexes for these parishes at the London Metropolitan Archives, though sometimes such indexes are handwritten and by year - as in the case of St Mary Lambeth.
Regards
Valda
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Thanks for that Valda. More pieces to the puzzle.
This Caroline (St Mary, Newington) and her father being named Henry is the avenue i will go down now. I reckon that there is more chance of my Samuel being more closely connected to this Mouchet family than the Soho, Westminster Mouchet family. I will try to visit the LMA this week and check the Parish records if i get a day off work. I have been there before so i am familiar with the set up there. I will let you all know if i find Samuel Mouchet's parents.
I have deleted Abraham John Mouchet as Samuel's father from my main tree. I have to go with that document stating that all the children of Abraham John Mouchet and Mary Stedman died unmarried or without issue.
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Hello again
Four years later and i am still searching for the baptism of my 4x G Grandad Samuel Mouchet. :(
I am now starting to think Samuel was baptised as Henry Mouchet in St Mary, Lambeth 25th Feb 1788 son of Henry Ann Mouchet & Mary (nee Rogers). Samuel's daughter Sarah born c1825 Lambeth is my 3x G Grandmother.
Here are some connections i have found with my Sarah Mouchet's family and Henry Ann Mouchet's family :
1. Henry Ann Mouchet's burial of record of 1788 in Bunhill Fields states his abode as White Hart Row, Lambeth. In 1841 my Sarah Mouchet & her husband (William Joseph) & family plus her mother Sarah are living in Regency Place which is in that same street.
2. Henry Ann Mouchet had a daughter named Jemima Mouchet b1786 & baptised St Mary, Lambeth 25th Feb 1788. Jemima marries John Robberds. A Caroline Mouchet mentioned earlier in the thread marries a George Robberds. So obviously this Caroline is related to Jemima. It turns out that in 1851 Caroline's (died in 1847) husband and family are living at 6 Bennet's Buildings, Lambeth. My Joseph family lived at No 4 & No 5 Bennets Buildings in 1861, 1871 & 1881.
3. Name connections : Henry Ann Mouchet's father was named Samuel. Siblings of my Sarah Mouchet were named Henry & Caroline.
Is it possible that Samuel was born Henry ?
P.S.
I have since looked at the Will's mentioned earlier in the thread plus Henry Ann Mouchet's Will and my Samuel is not mentioned. Henry Ann Mouchet made his Will in 1785 and names his two children as Mary Ann & Esther. His other children Jemima & Henry were not born then. I have still not found a burial for Samuel or a marriage to Sarah.
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Hi
On Caroline and Sarah's marriages they give the same information about their father - Samuel deceased painter. Does Henry, their other known and older sibling give the same information on his marriage and does Sarah's death certificate confirm she was the widow of Samuel?
What connection is Joseph Mouchet who married Harriet King, as a minor in 1827, to the family since he is with them on the 1841 census? Could he be the eldest child?
Regards
Valda
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Hello Valda
Sarah & Caroline's brother Henry marries Sophia Coleman on the 17th May 1846 in Kennington. He also names his father as Samuel. I found that marriage on the Family Search website index.
I have not got Samuel's wife Sarah's death certificate. That is an excellent idea. She died in 1852. I will definately order that now.
I have that Joseph Mouchet as an older sibling of my Sarah at the moment.
There is a Joseph Mouchat buried in 1848 Lambeth age 41. If this is him then his mother Sarah would of been about 15 when she had him.
There is also a Joseph Mouchat who was a witness to the marriage of Caroline Sarah Robberds (daughter of Caroline Mouchet) in 1840 Lambeth. His signature and spelling are different to the Joseph Mouchet who married Harriet King though.
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I am researching the Stiggers family and am looking at a direct connection with Joseph Mouchat who was married to Harriet King. They had two children both named Thomas. The first Thomas died in c1849 whilst the second Thomas was born in 1853. have not been able to identified what happened to Joseph Mouchat and the information you have is that he died in 1848 which does not tie in with the children's births . In Feb 1857 Harriet married John Stiggers. At some stage Harriet's surviving son from the first marriage changed his surname from Mouchat to Stiggers and he is my great grandfather!
I have done lot of research on Thomas Stiggers and have traced the family back to c1750 in West Kingsdown in Kent. I have thought for some time that I need to concentrate my research on the Mouchat's and I would be pleased to hear from you with any further info you have on Joseph Mouchat's ancestors.
I have number of Mouchat birth certificates I can copy to you if you wish but I can only do this after the first week in May as I am out of the UK at present.
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Hello Stigs
Your info on Thomas Stiggers confirms that there must of been two Joseph Mouchet/Mouchat's living in Lambeth at the same time. The burial in 1848 must of been the other Joseph Mouchat and not your Joseph who married Harriet King. I don't know when your Joseph died. I can't find your Joseph & Harriet on the 1851 census either.
I am not sure how your Joseph is related to my Mouchet family. Your Joseph & Harriet and their children are living with my Mouchet family in the 1841 census. My Mouchet family in that census are mother Sarah and her three children Sarah, Henry, Caroline. Mother Sarah was born about 1792 in Cripplegate, London. Father Samuel Mouchet is not on that census. I presume he died before 1841.
I have not found a baptism, marriage or burial for father Samuel so far. I have not got any further back from him in the Mouchet line. I do however believe that our Mouchet's are related to Henry Ann Mouchet mentioned in a previous message in this thread. Henry Ann Mouchet's family came from Colombier, Neuchatel, Switzerland.
I would like to see those Mouchat birth certificates. I will send you a personal message with my email address.
Pilgarlic
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Hi
To receive and send Rootschat personal messages Stigs needs to make three posts on Rootschat.
See Rootschat information on personal messaging for further details
http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
Posting twice more on this topic will allow you both to communicate by pm.
Regards
Valda
Moderator
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FYI, I have just found a record from 1805 in the Bank Of England Will Extracts on FindMyPast which mentions Abraham John Mouchet and William Stedman.
It refers to 1200 pounds in the 3% consols in the names of Mary Grace of Park Street Grosvenor Square Widow (the Graces in Park Street are my interest) and William Stedman of Frith Street Soho Peruke Maker.
Essentially it records that by 18 November 1805 both Mary Grace and William Stedman had died but Probate on Stedman's PCC will (5 Mar 1805) was granted to AJ Mouchet (with rights reserved to William Reid), meaning that the funds were at Mouchet's disposal.
There may be some value for you in following up these leads.
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Thanks for that info horselydown86.
I will make a note of it for future research.
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I ordered the 1852 death certificate of Sarah.
It states that she was the widow of Samuel Mouchet a Painter. She died at 43 Regency Place, White Hart Street. Sarah is living at 18 Regency Place in the 1851 census.
Can someone please lookup number 43 Regency Place in 1851 to see who was living at that address. There may be a family connection there.
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I ordered the 1852 death certificate of Sarah.
It states that she was the widow of Samuel Mouchet a Painter. She died at 43 Regency Place, White Hart Street. Sarah is living at 18 Regency Place in the 1851 census.
Can someone please lookup number 43 Regency Place in 1851 to see who was living at that address. There may be a family connection there.
Hannah Waite, aged 70, lived at No. 43 in 1851. With her are 2 sons; Joseph, 37, a greengrocer, and Robert, 27, a light porter.
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Thanks for doing that lookup for me Susieroe.
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Just discovered this thread. My interest is in Sophia Auglin Mouchet who married Rev John Hambleton, the lived in Islington. In the 1861 census her two sisters Sophia Adelbert & Susanna Adelbert Mouchet were staying with the Hambletons.
Sophia Auglin was born in Jamaica in 1788, the other 2 sisters were born in London.
This thread seems to have missed census all info, certainly this one. From my researches, their parents were Daniel Mouchet & Sarah nee Cuthbert.
Some of this seems quite contrary to other posted here (parents of Sophia Adelbert & Susanna Adelbert for example).
I would love to hear comments on this.
Tony
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Six years later and i have finally found Samuel Mouchet's burial. He was buried on the 14th May 1836 at St Mark, Kennington, age 41, of Regency Place. That puts his birth abt 1795.
Also a Mary Ann Mouchet was buried there 27th May 1838 age 83 of White Hart Street. Mary must be the widow of Henry Ann Mouchet who died in 1788.
I am starting to believe that Samuel was the illigitimate son of that Mary. Also Caroline & Joseph Mouchet mentioned in this thread were possibly illigitimate children of Mary as well. (Samuel named one of his daughters Caroline).
Still looking for Samuel's baptism & marriage. It may take another six years though !