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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: donnellysearch on Sunday 27 January 08 15:03 GMT (UK)
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Hi, With a little help (well loads really) from people on here we have managed to trace our family back to Ireland but have very little information to go on from there.
we know we are looking for Arthur Donnelly likely to have been married around 1830-38 to Catherine nee looks like murray. We know for sure that they had a son they named James while in Ireland between 1836-1839 and possibly a son called peter.
Assuming that the main way to travel from Ireland to Scotland was by cattle boat the only information we have to go on is the names. We can also only be sure that James travelled across as his parents don't appear to have been recorded in Glasgow for deaths.
Arthur is recorded to have been a farmer.
Any suggestions how to move on from here appreciated
thankyou Jenny
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Hi
The name Donnelly is very common in the Sandyford, South Dublin area and that would be where I'd begin, as you have nothing definite to work from.
Many family members were/are farmers, whilst others worked as stone masons in the local quarries.
The church in Sandyford is St. Mary's, although it is also referred to as Sandyford R.C. in www.dublinheritage.ie
09-01-1831 - Donnelly James baptised at St Mary's Church.
06-05-1838 - Donnelly Petrus (Peter?) Sandyford R.C.
20-09-1840 - Donnelly Catharina (Catherine) Sandyford R.C.
also
22-06-1845 - Donnelly Arthur baptised at St Mary's Church.
I would suggest checking the Parish Registers for Sandyford/St Mary's and see if any of these are your folks, or just to eliminate them.
Cheers
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Sorry LH but I disagree. The surname Donnelly is very common is many parts of Ireland and it would be foolish to start searching in any area without a better idea of where the family might have lived in Ireland.
No records were (or are kept) of travel between Ireland/Scotland/England & Wales. Civil registration began too late to find births and marriages for this family so once you find out where they lived (parish if not townland not just county or 'Ireland') you need to see if the church records still exist and look for the family there.
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Thanks to both of you, It seems that once you reach Ireland at that time it all gets very tricky. I checked out the suggestions but unfortunately the dates don't run to match who I'm looking for.
You have confirmed for me that without more information our search will be a long one.
Maybe with time Ireland will collate it's information for web access like scotlandspeople have but for now journeys to Ireland to scoure the libraries and church records one by one or pay £15 odd for each possible match seems the way to do it and thats just not practical for us.
Whoever decides to collate and scan all these old images for web use would make a goldmine for the country.
Thanks for your help
Jenny :(
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We knocked a brick out the wall Arthur was from Derry.
Griffiths valuation from here thanks for your advice so far
Jenny
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here is a will index for an arthur donnelly from derry might be worth checking out if you know his approximate date of death
Title:
Forename: Arthur
Surname: Donnelly
Alt Surname:
Date Of Death: 22/12/1885
Date Of Grant: 16/05/1891
Effects: Effects £81
Registry: Londonderry
Full Abstract:
The Will of Arthur Donnelly late of Leitrim County Londonderry Farmer who died 22 December 1885 at same place was proved at Londonderry by Robert Cushely of Tammaran in said County Farmer one of the Executors.
(you can request a copy of the will from proni cost about 5 pounds)
vito
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Where did you find that vito?
I find the Irish part of my search a little confusing. The dates are roughly what we'd expect as his sons married in Glasgow around 1855 and he wasn't present so we assume he was still in Ireland but even the churches I've looked at won't search as far back as we'd expect him to have been married around 1835.
I'm a little confused by the Griffiths valuation If anybody can advise me here was it only done on landowners? Being a farmer does that mean he was likely to have owned the land or could he have just worked on somebody else's farm or would that make him a farm laborer.
were there no records at this time that took down the names of spouses or children?
I will defiantly try to find that vito but a link would be great to the site you used.
Many thanks
Jenny
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In the 1800s very few people in Ireland owned 'their' land- most were tenants. Griffith's Valuation (the full, printed version) will give names of both the tenant and the landlord (immediate lessor). For County Londonderry Griffith's Valuation was c1859.
PRONI has just recently put the Will index information on their website (www.proni.gov.uk).
Census details were collected every 10 years just like England but unfortunately most of the early ones were destroyed by fire or deliberately pulped once population statistics for each townland were noted. First complete census for all of Ireland is 1901. 1911 and 1901 census are being put online (just started last month with 1911 Dublin)- see here for details: www.census.nationalarchives.ie
However, 1831 census for part of County Londonderry did survive (Barony of Coleraine, City of Londonderry, Barony of Loughlinsholin, Barony of Tirkeeran) but it was more a religious census listing townland, head of household, number of males and females in household, and how many were E.C. (Established Church i.e. Church of Ireland), Presbyterian, R.C., other.
The main source of family information in 1800s would be church records. In order to find them (of they survived) you need to know religion and where the family lived (parish if not actual townland not just the county).
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Is it possible that once I get an address I could work out the Parish does it work by radius of the church itself ?
I know they were RC and I have seen the lists you mentioned but it says that in all of Derry Londonderry there was only one Donnelly family with 8 family members given how common the name was one name search came back with a total of 657 Donnelly's residing in Derry at the time so i thought for sure that the list couldn't be complete.
Also on the Griffiths valuation it mentions two Donnelly's one in Ballyscullion the other in Maghera. So including the death above and searching every free record I can find for this time I still only have 4 Donnelly's to go at.
I think it may be better odds to win the lottery Saturday.
I'm not giving up i just question the entirety of the documents.
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Is it possible that once I get an address I could work out the Parish does it work by radius of the church itself ?
The townland is the 'address' so once you have that information you can find out what the civil parish was and figure out where the nearest church was, etc.
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Ok get that now, thanks I need a dummies guide to Irish geaneology i think.
thanks
Jenny
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See here for explanation of what townlands are:
www.ulsterancestry.com/ulster_townlands_by_county.html
http://www.rootschat.com/links/02lv/
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Hi right i think Im starting to get it,
If i'm right the majority of these old townland names have been forgotten and those that have the information charge. £25 one site i saw for a hand sketch of how to get to one of the few known to them. So what I really need if i could find one or use of one is this ordanance survery map 1833-46 which is scaled 1 mile to 6" so I can use the page references from that link up there.
Is this possible? Does anybody know where one can be viewed online?
i'm looking for
Kirley Maghera Derry o/s ref 35,36
and
Town Parks, Magherafelt Derry os ref 41,42,47
I see magherafelt is a place name still used but all the borders have changed and I can't find Maghera at all on modern day maps but to be honest after google earth and multimap failed i went back to looking for old maps.
thankyou
Jenny
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Hold on here a minute Jenny.
The townlands still exist. In some places like County Londonderry in the 1970s road names were brought in as the postal address but the townlands are still there.
Maghera is still a small town/village which should show up on GoogleEarth (just checked to make sure-yes, still there where A29 (from Coleraine/Garvagh) intersects with A42)- just type 'Maghera' into GoogleEarth.
If you are looking at a modern map Maghera show also show up on the road between Coleraine and Cookstown.
Think you are making things more complicated than they need to be.
To get a good map of Maghera and Magherfelt area see:
http://ireland.kiwicelts.com/irishMap/ireMap.html
That site will allow you to see outline of townlands and modern road map at same time.
And here's the Ordnance Survey map site which might help:
www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/getamap
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found maghera thankyou I've decided to give it a rest a while. Researching Scotland I found easy In areas and place names I understood with scotlandspeople holding nearly every record I needed. Irelands records are just too fragmented for the dates I need It's taken me all day just to find out if maghera and magherafelt still exist let alone the townlands within them.
I'll leave Arthur Hugh Peter Catherine and James to somebody with more time and resources.
thanks to all of you I know for certain that our roots are from Derry and probably from Maghera and Magherafelt and without the help of people on this site i'd still be wondering how to start.
best of luck with all your searches
Jenny
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Hi Jenny
I have just found this post and see it is quite old. But I thought I would try and contact you anyway. The Kirley Donnelly's are my mob. I don't know if you have managed to progress your research but I have spent quite a few years now trying to piece together the Donnelly's from in and around Kirley. You haven't mentioned too much about the Arthur you are looking for but I can tell you the Arthur from Kirley died in 1872 and is buried in Maghera. Perhaps this may rule him in or out? Kind regards