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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: sue7 on Sunday 27 January 08 14:05 GMT (UK)

Title: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: sue7 on Sunday 27 January 08 14:05 GMT (UK)
While I realize that I don't own my ancestors, the absolute gall of some people make my blood boil, yesterday while doing a search on ancestry I came across my grandmother on someone else's tree,  (she passed away two years ago)

On checking this tree closer my whole line back from her was on it,  This person I worked out was something like a step 16th cousin twice removed, (am exaggerating slightly)

why would he bother with putting my ancestors on this tree, certainly it wasn't relevant to his research,

So I ask the question is it ego or what?

Sue ???
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: nanny jan on Sunday 27 January 08 14:19 GMT (UK)

I've found something similar with one of my ancestors;  I think some people just like collecting names!



Nanny Jan
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Heather D on Sunday 27 January 08 16:39 GMT (UK)
Or maybe less about collecting names but more about enjoying the thrill of chasing branches to see how far forward you can bring them? I do it myself ...I like adding pieces to the jigsaw!

While I can understand someone being puzzled by this approach I don't really get why anyone would be angered by it.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is, what we consider relevant to the research probably depends on the individual approach to the research itself.

Heather

Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Garethboxing on Sunday 27 January 08 16:58 GMT (UK)
I agree with Heather. What's to get upset about? I've followed some fringe lines in my own family simply because I found them interesting; others I've not bothered with.

We're all doing this for our own pleasure (aren't we?). If some people are "name-collectors", good luck to them. Why should it make any difference to anyone else?

  Gareth
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: liverpool annie on Sunday 27 January 08 17:10 GMT (UK)


I understand what you're saying Sue ..... we are very protective of our own family and research .... it's a bit of a jolt to see someone else have it also !

I think my problem is ... I'm a little private!!  ::) and tend to save my information and I don't like to share unless I know  people are REALLY related to me .... I hate the thought of my family hanging out there on the internet for all to see !! .... silly isn't it ? but I can't help it !!

Must be me age !!  :D

Annie  :)

PS Hi Heather !
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Lydart on Sunday 27 January 08 17:22 GMT (UK)
If they have living people on it, then complain by emailing the site ... they are reluctant to remove living people in my experience, but if you quote child protection laws and that sort of thing, you'll find they do eventually co-operate !
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 27 January 08 17:27 GMT (UK)
We have to accept that we are all connected to others by a web of kinship and affinity and none of our ancestors are just 'ours'.

As long as they don't put living people up, as Lydart says, there is nothing that can be done.

You have to admire all that work though  ;)

Gadget
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Roobarb on Sunday 27 January 08 17:30 GMT (UK)
I'm guessing that what maddens you Sue is because someone else seems to be taking the credit for your hard earned research.(http://www.smilieshq.com/smilies/char1/character0187.gif) (http://www.smilieshq.com)
 Makes me angry too.     (http://www.smilieshq.com/smilies/mad0009.gif) (http://www.smilieshq.com)
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: panda40 on Sunday 27 January 08 17:45 GMT (UK)
Ancestry have a link that when an individual appears in your tree and the other persons you can import there tree info into yours. Not sure if it works the opposite and they automatically get your tree as well. So you may only have been after one distant relative and gain 50 surplus ones as well. I have opened up a couple of these trees to see what research the person has done and they have very cleverly included the wrong place of death for every individual eg instead of Dover Kent it says Dover Delaware USA. So the tree owner knows if someone has included their research rather than doing the work themselves. Quite a clever trick that might be worth including. Personally I much rather do the the research myself then risk using someone Else's that may include mistakes. I have had my tree borrowed and I have a few known errors put in deliberately by myself to prove its my tree and not theres. The most comprehensive one is on my computer not on the internet.
regards panda
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Heather D on Sunday 27 January 08 18:38 GMT (UK)

PS Hi Heather !

Hi Annie  :-*

On topic ...

If I've misunderstood and someone has copied Sue's tree or added living relatives without permission, it's bad manners and I apologise .....but if they've simply been researching a branch themselves with only a distant connection, I'd say they had every right to do so?

Heather
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 27 January 08 18:41 GMT (UK)
Hi Heather

Yes - I agree with you. I assumed from Sue's first posting that it had been separately researched and she was wondering why they were on the person's tree as they were only distantly related.

Lifting people's work is a very different matter.

GAdget  :)
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: forthefamily on Sunday 27 January 08 19:02 GMT (UK)
I have seen at least seven different trees on Ancestry belonging to other people that share common ancestors with my OH. They are all doing their own research and it is interesting to see where their families branch off from ours.

One of the tree owners has a code for the last names of their tree members but Ancestry still matched birth date, death date etc to the tree I was working on so that's how I discovered it.

You have to be careful not to "accept" a match. I did this when I first started building my tree. The match was someone I had in my tree. By accepting this "match" I inadvertently also matched every one on the other tree which was not my intention. I ended up with this huge tree populated by people that weren't mine  :o :o :o

It took a lot of work to untangle the mess I made for myself  ;D  I'm sure this happens to people all the time but they may not know how to reverse the wrong entries or probably can't be bothered.

I also know someone this has happened to and they just abandoned the first tree and started again which I think was the wrong thing to do. It will leave the wrong impression for someone finding it later.

The most bizarre tree is one that has my OH's GG Grandfather...just him and no one else. I cannot fathom why they would even include him in their tree...I've looked and looked and just don't get it. The best part is this tree goes back to ancient Rome . I showed the OH and he was amazed because he didn't know he was related to one of the Caesars.... ::) ::) ::) ::)

mab

Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Tephra on Monday 28 January 08 08:51 GMT (UK)



I can't even find my own people never mind anyone elses...........   ::) ::) ::)


Barbara
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: LoneyBones on Monday 28 January 08 10:46 GMT (UK)
Quote
The best part is this tree goes back to ancient Rome
Now that's something I'd like to see.  :o
I've recently read about the family tree of the Chinese sage Confucius, which has been recognised by the Guinniss Book of records as the longest recorded genealogy.

I think the history of the Roman Empire alone would negate a successful genealogy.
But some people are very resourceful ;D
Cheers,
Leonie.
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: behindthefrogs on Monday 28 January 08 13:08 GMT (UK)
Quote
I think the history of the Roman Empire alone would negate a successful genealogy.
Cheers,
Leonie.

I don't understand this statement.  I would have thought that the Roman naming rules which included three levels of names instead of the two which we use would aid genealogy. 

The preanomen which belonged to the individual tended to follow family preferences while the nomen identified the family and the cognomen the branch of the family.  As the cognomen was often the preanomen of a significant ancestor you can almost draw their trees from their names alone.

Of course some of the emperors like the Caesars broke the rules for reasons of pure vanity.

David
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Boongie Pam on Monday 28 January 08 13:24 GMT (UK)
I got bored one day and got hold of all the parish records of a parish my family hailled from.  All the BMD!  With the census and these records I extended a branch well beyond any connected family to me.

Some of these folk aren't even blood related.

A descendent of those trees could be angry at me for publishing their tree.

But where does your tree finish and another start?  I've helped many people with those trees get started on their journey.  We would never have had contact if I didn't publish those extended trees.  I've had photos from them in return of graves, churches, pubs  ;)

I would never publish info on the recerntly deceased or living as that is a different matter.  But I don't even mind if anyone takes my tree and uses it.  Why should I?  It's from publicly available info.  They'd be mad not to have their own journey through the ages - that's the fun bit.

Pam
 :)
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Jayson on Monday 28 January 08 15:24 GMT (UK)
Forgive me, I know this may sound a bit daft but when I first started researching I didn't realise how many relations I actually had living.  I always thought of my family consisting only of parents, grandparents, uncles, etc.  Making contact with a distant cousin through genealogy was at first a real thrill, now of course it happens so regularly that it's become as mundane as the making of a pot of tea.

Now, I often research the individual histories of the people who married into my family, & what a pleasurable diversion it has proved to be even though they aren't strictly speaking my ancestors.

Jayson
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: sue7 on Monday 28 January 08 16:25 GMT (UK)
Hello Everyone :(

Nice to read all the different points of view to my post,  and maybe I am being a little to sensitvie,  but researching is certainly different in my book to copying a whole bunch of names and sticking the lot in your tree,

Of course as we all research we come across ancestors that are ours in other trees,  the difference being you check and recheck data, 


Sue
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: forthefamily on Monday 28 January 08 17:54 GMT (UK)
I'm with you....I find someone and go off on little tangents of investigation. My OH says I'm crazy to be spending so much time researching a second or third cousin but it's just interesting to see how the whole picture fits together.

It's not just the people either. If you want to get it right you need to know something about where they lived and how they lived. That way they become more than names and dates.

If I do find an ancestor in another tree I take a look but I rather depend on my own research than someone else's. That's the whole point...the research is the fun part.

mab
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: ndedross on Monday 28 January 08 18:25 GMT (UK)
I don’t see that we have the right to question the objectives of anyone’s research. If they want to stack names, then fine, that is their right. Some people seek links to ‘famous’ people past or present, that’s ok.

If you publish a tree, then expect it to be copied. What is irresponsible is for publishers to ‘insert’ information they know to be incorrect. That wastes a lot of time.

For my part, I am more interested in how my ancestors lived, so the tree is merely a guide of some events. I research witnesses, neighbours, colleagues, etc to see who my ancestors associated with, worked for, etc. The important result for me are the resulting ‘books’ I have written on each of my main lines; that tie in the social, cultural and economic background in which they lived.

I wish I could get back to Roman times, but I am pretty sure I’d find that my lot were all Agricultural Labourers, even then!

Nigel
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: meles on Monday 28 January 08 18:31 GMT (UK)
I agree, Nigel.

This discussion comes up time after time after time. And many people get so angry.

But for me the bottom line is, if you put your family tree on a publically accessible site, then it's up for grabs.

If you don't want your tree to be copied, then don't publish it.

But, of course, you run the risk of never being in touch with relatives.

It's your choice.

meles
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Mum44 on Monday 28 January 08 18:49 GMT (UK)

Agreed, Meles

I think what makes people angry is perhaps that they feel their hobby is being diminished by people who don't apparently take it as seriously as they do.  Some of us - myself included - relish the graft of researching and  the high you get when you find him at last!  (often been "shushed" at in a library for that and once in a record office!)

Because that's how we get our satisfaction we resent others having the result without the sweat, forgetting that it was our choice to do it that way. And there is also - in my opinion - intense satisfaction when you can present your work to someone who had very little before, knowing that you did it.

Through my tree on GR I recently found a 4th cousin, who had lost touch with his father's family decades ago - he was so pleased to have the details and knowledge of his uncles and cousins.  Lovely feeling for me too.

Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Tephra on Monday 28 January 08 23:54 GMT (UK)




I'd love to be able to find just one branch of my family on some tree or other........ I do like to research for myself and do take it very seriously, but if it was handed to me on a plate I certainly wouldn't complain.

After all, One mans research is another mans tedium - we're not all the same. 


Barbara


Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Mum44 on Monday 28 January 08 23:59 GMT (UK)

Well, no, neither do I when it happens - occassionally does - and although I always check all the data before I accept it, it would be very cocky to refuse it because it wasn't me who'd done the spade work
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: forthefamily on Tuesday 29 January 08 01:27 GMT (UK)
I don't know if someone talked about this but there are people who seem to want as many names as possible on their tree...and as someone mentioned I shouldn't question their methods and aims... and that's cool...... but sorry I just don't understand the mindset. Sorry  :-\

My own experience with Ancestry that I referred to before where I accidentally acquired a whole bunch of people just because I "accepted" a valid family member match makes me laugh. Because of that , my OH is apparently related to...get this....

Elizabeth Browning - 14th Cousin 3 times removed
George Orwell - 12th Cousin 4 times removed
Edward Jenner - 10th Cousin 7 times removed
Robert Hobart - 8th Cousin 7 times removed
John Tilly - 5th Cousin 12 times removed
Edward Tilly - 5th Cousin 12 times removed
Issac Newton - 5th Cousin 12 times removed

These were all famous people in their day and if my OH were related to them I'd think we'd know about it  :o :o :o :o :o :o

mab ...climbing off her soap box  ;D


   
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: LoneyBones on Tuesday 29 January 08 04:05 GMT (UK)
Quote
Quote
I think the history of the Roman Empire alone would negate a successful genealogy.
Cheers,
Leonie.


I don't understand this statement. 
Actually I was thinking more of the records lost in the upheaval of wars rather than the records that were saved.

On another note, (and speaking generally) we each have 4 grand-parents, 8 great grandparents, 16 g-great grandparents, 32 g-g-great grandparents........
surely no-one thinks that by the time we get back that many generations our ancestors are exclusive???
Cheers,
Leonie.
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: forthefamily on Tuesday 29 January 08 04:16 GMT (UK)
LoneyBones  ;D

Exactly.

mab
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Tephra on Tuesday 29 January 08 04:18 GMT (UK)

On another note, (and speaking generally) we each have 4 grand-parents, 8 great grandparents, 16 g-great grandparents, 32 g-g-great grandparents........
surely no-one thinks that by the time we get back that many generations our ancestors are exclusive???
Cheers,
Leonie.



And that's it in a nutshell isn't it........     ;D ;D ;D


Barbara

Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Erato on Tuesday 29 January 08 04:23 GMT (UK)
This issue seems to come up over and over again and I find it hard to understand why it does.

Genealogy is a hobby for me and so is shell collecting.  The same kind of pointless discussions come up among shell collectors.  Some people have small, very focused collections – just one or a few  families, all their shells in perfect condition – gem quality specimens.  Many of them purchase shells from dealers.  Others, and I am one, collect anything including total trash – broken shells, beach worn, whatever.  Different people have different goals for shell collecting.  Some collect them almost as art objects.  In my case, I collect everything, never buy shells, am interested in them as living animals as well as dead specimens, and attempt to document the species’ distribution among other things.  Purists would find my collection revolting, but so what.  It’s a matter of taste and interest, not a matter of one way of collecting being  the right way and any deviation being wrong.

The same holds for genealogy/family history.  It’s a hobby and people’s interests, goals and approaches to it vary.  What is there to get upset about?
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: LoneyBones on Tuesday 29 January 08 05:11 GMT (UK)
Absotively, posolutly  ;D
Horses for courses.
Just imagine the alternatives.....
Zero population growth to start with  :-\, doing housework   ::)(for the non-population) watching TV :o ..............
Life would be so boring.   ???
Cheers,
Leonie.
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Boongie Pam on Tuesday 29 January 08 10:39 GMT (UK)
I like the discussion - it's a confessional for me.  I'm a name collector  :)

I do it because I want to make contact.  I'm pals with so many distant rellies - in fact not even related really!

But I've had brickwalls come tumbling thanks to witnesses at weddings, notifiers on death certs.  These people aren't related but when I research them I see some distant connection that helps me place my ancestors geographically.  And lo the wall comes a tumbling.

It really helps in the 1800 to 1845 period because of the, I've moved back into the middle 1700s thansk to strangers that touched my ancestors lives.

I think our ancestors knew more of their distant relatives than we do now because they didn't adopt soap opera characters!

P :)
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: LoneyBones on Tuesday 29 January 08 11:00 GMT (UK)
Just imagine if I never researched wedding witnesses  ???
I would never have found my g-g-grandfather Yeatman!!!
Great grandfather Yeatman was a brickwall til I got the marriage cert. and researched the witness Henry Monk. Turned out to be his b-in-law. led me back to the parish records and there were the whole family. Yeatman wasn't in the FreeBMD yet but Monk was  ;D
Let's hear it for sideways research.
Cheers,
Leonie.
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: sue7 on Tuesday 29 January 08 11:41 GMT (UK)
Hi Everyone
Well after reading all the posts I must say I am really embarrassed I actually brought it up, :-[ :-[ :-[

I don't consider myself some sort of Diva who and I certainly so share my information quite willingly, and I also have made some wonderful contacts through distant relatives,

Maybe its time for me to come out of my dusty cobweb room, surrounded by ghost's of the past in the form of certificates etc,

In finishing I must say nice to have a healthy discussion with Rootschatters and being a newbie, advice will be taken on board

Thankyou  Sue :)


Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: dollylee on Tuesday 29 January 08 11:57 GMT (UK)
Don't be embarrassed for bringing  it up.  It was a good question and brought out all the different reasons people do this.

It's some times hard to find someone you searched for forever and finally tracked down to be flung off on a far branch of another family tree.  Also, I some times grunt and stammer and swear because I am sure the other person didn't sweat the blood and tears I did in finding the relative and he is closer to me!!!  But that only reinforces all the right reasons to share when you can give sources and proof so others can check it out easily for themselves and be confident it is right.

I am at the point where I don't care if the found people are relatives of mine or not.....just that they are found.  Maybe I need a new hobby

dollylee
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Abiam2 on Tuesday 29 January 08 12:02 GMT (UK)
Have to join in here!

I am researching the family of my Great Great grand uncle which has led me to his widow's 2nd husband who, with his son from this marriage and his stepson from her marriage to my GGGrand uncle, discovered a large leg bone of a Diprotodon optatum!  The largest herbivorous marsupial known to haved lived - about the size of a hippopotamus and extinct for between 10 and 20,000 years.

If I hadn't continued along the new husbands line I probably would never have found this little nugget as it came to me under his name.  Which all adds to the story I am writing.  I shall go on hunting for his son although not a 'proper' relative because the story of all their lives is so interesting.

I enjoy the frustration and sometimes the excitement of it all and if someone copies my tree willy nilly then they are the ones missing out!

Regards, Abiam

PS.  The Dipro........ was in Australia.



Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Mum44 on Tuesday 29 January 08 12:27 GMT (UK)

Abiam - you echoed a thought I have often had - if someone has copied my tree, how on earth do they answer queries they may receive from the next person?

There are things I know because I did the research that aren't necessarily on my tree - the little things about circumstances and side-shoots - which don't affect the big picture but which mean a lot to me.  I keep those things in the files, and the person who uplifted the data doesn't have that - so what if another person asks about it ?  They wont know!

I only put blood relations on the actual tree - but believe me, there are hundreds of add-ons in the files !  Sadly, the add-ons seem to be the ones who hold the nuggets!
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: toni* on Tuesday 29 January 08 12:34 GMT (UK)



I can't even find my own people never mind anyone elses...........   ::) ::) ::)


Barbara

me either
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Roobarb on Tuesday 29 January 08 14:38 GMT (UK)

Abiam - you echoed a thought I have often had - if someone has copied my tree, how on earth do they answer queries they may receive from the next person?


They probably just ignore the queries, which is what I suspect has happened to me on a copuple of occasions when I've contacted people about someone in their tree. (http://smilieshq.com/smilies/rolleye0012.gif) (http://www.smilieshq.com)
                       
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: behindthefrogs on Tuesday 29 January 08 14:59 GMT (UK)
I have actually had replies of the following type on GR.

Sorry she is a fourth cousin twice removed and I know nothing about her.  Can I see your tree please to see how they fit in?

They must be joking!  Not that they would find out much as I only make brief details of direct ancestors and a few people for whom I desparately want more information publicly available and even then only if I feel there is a genuine mutual interest.

David
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: dimmell123 on Tuesday 29 January 08 15:55 GMT (UK)
Hi Sue. I sympathise with your view and situation because, to some extent, 'lifting' names from some-one else's tree devalues the massive enterprise and effort (and sheer expense!!!!!!) some of us undertaken in order to get where we are.
I started out on Genes Reunited (ages ago) and was pretty excited, initially, especially when I found living family connections I hadn't known about. That has been a particular joy. Sadly, when ITV took GU over I saw things going down the pan and there was a huge furore about 'stolen trees'. I even came across one with over 220,000 names in it and was incandescant with rage when I noticed that my tree had been lifted wholesale, imported, and even a few significant names and dates changed slightly to make it fit. THAT was the moment when my tree went private!!!!!
I came across yet another living family member who had done some terrific research (and leg-work) and she introduced me to Ancestry. So I exported my gedcom, made my brother an editor (and we work together on it), and ensured that it was PRIVATE not public. As a precaution I deleted everything from the GU tree except myself with a silly name and rubbish dates and waited until this month for my sub to expire.
Why do I protect my tree this way? Well it is simple: I am a purist. I drive my brother to distraction because he is much more excitable than I and prone to flights of fancy. Generally, I allow nothing into my tree unless there are the required three pieces of primary evidence. Because our tree is verified in this way back to 1610 obviously there are some difficulties obtaining primary evidence for the earlier years but gravestones, newspaper reports, land taxes etc are all acceptable in my opinion. It doesn't just have to be certificates! Getting hold of such information has cost me a fortune and, of course, both of us now living well away from Northumberland we have to make expensive visits for periods to actively research various points.
Like many others I have the blinkers off and look sideways at my tree and this is because it fills out the picture and feeds my other main interest of social history. Quite often, the bloodline alone doesn't tell the whole story. If one comes across distant relatives in the process that is all part of the story. Three of mine are really 4th cousins once removed (two from the same branch, one from another) and their help has been invaluable. If it hadn't been for them I wouldn't have understood why some members of the family migrated away from the 'family seat' in Northumberland.
My view is simple: if one has information which needs protecting in any way make the tree private. You can always invite people in (even for a limited period). In Ancestry links still arise even if a tree is private. It just means the 'finder' has to approach the unknown owner for information. The control is then with the owner to decline or open it up. I am not interested in making a public show of what a wonderful job of work we have done (because we still feel we have only just scraped the surface) and I certainly don't want all the world to see some of our 'skeletons' we have unexpectedly uncovered.
This is only my way and I share it with you so you can see others face the same issues you have encountered. Sometimes there are decisions to be made and it would be better if some-one gave us guidance before we start because most of us just jump in with enthusiasm and then discover we have to unpick some bits!
David
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Jayson on Wednesday 30 January 08 09:47 GMT (UK)
What we are seeing here is what I would call "convenience genealogy".  We have convenience food don't we? So I suppose what people think is why slave away for hours on end when it's already nicely prepared & ready to go?  ;D ;D ;D

Jayson
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Ecneps on Wednesday 30 January 08 09:58 GMT (UK)
So I suppose what people think is why slave away for hours on end when it's already nicely prepared & ready to go?

They don't know what they're missing, that's their loss  :D :D

Barbara
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: trish251 on Wednesday 30 January 08 10:20 GMT (UK)

They don't know what they're missing, that's their loss  :D :D

Barbara

Couldn't agree more - they don't know the joys of this addiction  8)  8)

Trish
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: LoneyBones on Wednesday 30 January 08 10:26 GMT (UK)
I'm just glad the Morman church is happy to 'share' their research.
And I'm glad all the dedicated volunteers who transcribe for FreeBMD & FreeCEN don't think other people are 'lifting' their hard sweated work.
I'm also glad the dedicated volunteers who transcribe parish records don't seem to mind if others 'copy' their work.
Every fact we enter into our own files, no matter where we get it from, is someone elses work.  ::)
Even original certificates are someone elses work.
Leonie.

Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Jayson on Wednesday 30 January 08 10:38 GMT (UK)
I couldn't agree more, Leonie.  8)

Jayson
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Old Mother Reilly on Wednesday 30 January 08 10:39 GMT (UK)
Hi Rootschatters:

It seems we all have a slightly different approach: but then our circumstances and starting points and aims are all different too!

I keep my tree private - my wider family and friends have access on an invitation-only site, should they want it.  New research doesn't get on there until it's fully verified and, unless the people involved seem significant, only the main branches are added.  That doesn't mean that I haven't looked into the fascinating lives of some of my more incidental and distant relations - I have and it's been great and caused me to learn a lot about the history of England and Ireland and their politics and people.

I am a little selfish in that, whilst I have had some success "tree searching" for common ancestors on GR, I will not put MY tree there!  I am happy to type out the particular family connection for anyone who has the courtesy to reply to an enquiry and I will answer any query they might have for me, if I can.  I have been amused and pleased by the information from some of these contacts.

I also use GR to look for the descendants of two of my indirect branches: in one case because I have some information which might interest the descendants and in the other because I want to know what happened to the people after WW1 started and have no other way of finding out!

I have also had the good fortune to come across three highly informative family name websites, positively bulging with information.  On giving credentials, they have released various trees, etc.  As these appear to have been rigorously researched and relate to geographical areas where I am unable to undertake personal research it seems unnecessarily churlish to insist on purely doing it myself.  However, I admit to finding it less satisfying - there are no "eureka" moments finding family history this way!

"Poaching" trees indiscriminately seems to me to be a pointless and shabby thing to do - it misses the point of family history for me, which is learning about who these people were, how they lived and how they were affected by the rules and regs of the day.  Not having found any high-born ancestors I am constantly amazed that any of them survived at all given the conditions they lived in.  I am fascinated at how some of them were so static and others so mobile and what made the difference.  If I had simply lifted the names from the net I would have paid them little individual attention and not found out anything about them - I feel I would have been the poorer for it.

Rachel
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Jayson on Wednesday 30 January 08 10:52 GMT (UK)
Some people might not be able to get to a record office or library so as a consequence of this they rely solely on whatever comes their way via the net.  I really cannot understand why some folk are so reluctant to share their information.  If one was going to publish a book or something then I could understand it.  Keeping a "closed shop" mentality might also hinder discovering more exciting information.

Jayson
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: behindthefrogs on Wednesday 30 January 08 10:53 GMT (UK)
I am quite willing to share any of the information with anyone who is willing to reciprocate.  I accept that having been looking at my family for twenty years someone new to the scene will have a lot less to reciprocate.

However for example a recent contact who had only been researching their family for a few weeks has provided me with a photograph of my wife's great grandmother and all her daughters.  That photograph is well worth me providing him with details of ten generations of his family.  What I do expect is for the people to whom I am willing to freely give the fruits of many years of research to at least offer a few crumbs in exchange.

Similarly we all use the transcriptions which others have carried out but in return we should do some transcibing ourselves.

David
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 30 January 08 11:02 GMT (UK)
Some people might not be able to get to a record office or library so as a consequence of this they rely solely on whatever comes their way via the net.  I really cannot understand why some folk are so reluctant to share their information.  If one was going to publish a book or something then I could understand it.  Keeping a "closed shop" mentality might also hinder discovering more exciting information.

Jayson

Hi cousin-in-law  :)

If we'd kept a closed shop with the Pulestons, where would I be now  :-\

It led me to masses of exciting information  :D

Gadget 
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: LoneyBones on Wednesday 30 January 08 11:38 GMT (UK)
Well it seems to me it's not ego, it's one-up-man-ship! :o
Who gives a @#%@ how long I've been doing it? So long as I'm doing it and enjoying it. Who cares how many names I've got in my tree? So long as I've got a tree. I'm happy  ;D
Leonie.
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Maggott on Wednesday 30 January 08 11:49 GMT (UK)
Pity we can't establish a researchers'  protocol whereby you ask before grafting someone else's tree on to yours.  Should leave everyone happy
Maggott
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Mum44 on Wednesday 30 January 08 11:55 GMT (UK)
Leonie - you're right

It is a hobby after all, not a matter of life and death!   8)

Perhaps it's cos we're addicted ?  :-\   ;D

It's personal to us, but we should realise that not everyone is as committed and not every-one in the game is a family historian - some are ancestor collectors, and there's a difference!   ;D

But each to his own, and a hobby is supposed to be for enjoyment.  Once you start getting up-tight about it, it can stop being fun and start being an obsession .

Rather be addicted than obsessed (I think!)   ;D   ???   8)
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: LoneyBones on Wednesday 30 January 08 12:06 GMT (UK)
I think I'm both  ;D
For the record, I've been 'doing it' since my daughter was six months old and my M-in-law got out a box of old photos to show me how much my daughter looked like her grandmother. I think 'the bug' was in the box. My daughter is a grandmother herself now.
And I wouldn't have a clue how many names there are in our trees, and I wouldn't know how many certificates I have and I'm not going to count them because then I might have some idea how much I've spent on them and feel guilty about it  :o
Leonie.
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Erato on Wednesday 30 January 08 12:33 GMT (UK)
"Pity we can't establish a researchers'  protocol whereby you ask before grafting someone else's tree on to yours."

The protocol seems pretty simple to me.  If you don't want your tree "stolen," then don't put it out on the net.

I think it is fair to assume that information publically displayed on internet sites has been placed there because the author thought that it might be interesting or useful to other people.  So why then feel aggrieved if someone does find it useful and copies it or parts of it?  The author hasn't lost anything and might even gain a new contact and new information.


Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Jayson on Wednesday 30 January 08 12:41 GMT (UK)
Hi cousin Gaget

Precisely! I was so thrilled that I was able to help you with the Puleston family.  ;) ;D

Jayson
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: sue7 on Wednesday 30 January 08 13:18 GMT (UK)
Hi everyone

I would just like to clarify my position on this,  I was on ancestry to make connections, my tree was NOT on it, in fact my tree is in GR,

I don't recall any queries from this person RE my tree, and I would have remembered as I normally make sure there is a connection, so how they came to have it is a mystery to my mentality,

As for being a bit angry about it you bet I was, as I did email the person concerned, and received no reply,   

regards Sue
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Willow 4873 on Wednesday 30 January 08 13:36 GMT (UK)
I'm just glad the Morman church is happy to 'share' their research.
And I'm glad all the dedicated volunteers who transcribe for FreeBMD & FreeCEN don't think other people are 'lifting' their hard sweated work.
I'm also glad the dedicated volunteers who transcribe parish records don't seem to mind if others 'copy' their work.
Every fact we enter into our own files, no matter where we get it from, is someone elses work.  ::)
Even original certificates are someone elses work.
Leonie.



Well said Leonie!

I've got over 9000 names in my tree - mainly because I'm so bloody nosey!. I have to know what happened to the siblings - did they survive? marry? how many children did they have? and I trace all as far as I can. The closer members of my tree I research more thoroughly

My tree is on the net and I dont care if people take the information off it. Its their loss as they missed out on the research which is the bit I enjoy - its one of the reasons I'm a member of Rootschat and do lookups when I have the time

I have contacted several cousins - mainly distant but we keep in touch and help each other. One I found a web site for listing her GGGrandmothers side back to the early 1500's - I was just as excited as she was and the lovely people who own it have helped her out even more

It come down to if we dont share we dont get information back - how else are you going to get through that brick wall?

Willow x
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: casram on Wednesday 30 January 08 13:58 GMT (UK)
Like many here I am more than happy to share and pass on info about anyone on my tree.  I have received an incredible amount of help from others and part of the fun of this hobby is to be able to help others in return. It is even better when like Maggott you find relatives you did not know about. I am teh cousin she found and hearing from her really made my day. I do not always expect to get info in exchange – we all had to start somewhere and why re –invent the wheel. What I do object to is people like the gentleman who demanded I give him all the info I had on HIS family tree and people who can’t be bothered to say thanks or even reply to emails.

Carolyn
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: DJFRENCH on Wednesday 30 January 08 14:05 GMT (UK)
i'm with Leonie and Willow,

i'm happy to share, help and be enquiring and i believe that all the experiences and stories can only enrich our lives  ;D

if i had a site it would be open to all to see :)


Debz....thank you's do help  ;)



Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: sleepybarb on Wednesday 30 January 08 14:08 GMT (UK)
I never mind giving info to 'proven 'relations ,but what worries me is the total strangers I might mail who automatically open their  trees to me on GR.I usually say I only have a limited amount of info there which is true.I did have a look at Tribal pages the other day and theres a tree on there where the ancestor trail goes back to Adam.a bit worrying that.I always try to make sure I reply to those who mail me,it just shows a lack of 'net' manners when you don't.
                          sleepybarb :)
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Erato on Wednesday 30 January 08 14:39 GMT (UK)
I´ll share my information with anyone and they don´t have to be "proven relations."  After all, somebody might be researching all the early settlers of Marquette County and not just his own ancestors.  I don´t care if they are "just" name collectors; I don´t care if their own tree goes back to Adam.  As far as I´m concerned, you lose nothing by sharing information and you might gain something.

My tree is not on the internet because I don´t have the time but the principal names of interest are listed below.  Anyone who sees a possible connection can feel free to contact me and I will share what I know.  [Leonie - get those Ennises back to County Down or, alternatively, to Wisconsin].

Erato

Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: LoneyBones on Wednesday 30 January 08 23:17 GMT (UK)
Having said all that, I think one must be circumspect about what you put on the web and what you take off the web.
Try a little experiment; Google a name you have been asking about on this or other forums.
What I have on GR I consider to be a work in progress and is subject to change without notice. But then it's only open to those I choose to invite.
On the other hand, I've only ever uploaded one GEDCOM file. This was an extracted file from my extensive Legacy program. I extracted it for two reasons. Firstly because it was going to an open forum and secondly because before and beyond that small family group I had no orriginal source data.
The internet is being created on a minute by minute basis by you and by me. Some of us are experts in our field, while others are speculators, some are even outright frauds.  :o
Have fun  ;)
Leonie.
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Gadget on Wednesday 30 January 08 23:21 GMT (UK)
I'm right in the middle of briefing  new found cousins on our common ancestors while still searching for more of them in Oz  8)

It does get a little repetitive after a while but I'm now in contact with descendants of all  my grt grannie's siblings  :D

Gadget
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: LoneyBones on Wednesday 30 January 08 23:34 GMT (UK)
Good onya Gadget.
I've just conacted a cousin in England  ;D
There was family contact during the war years, OH's family used to send 'Care Packages' to England. We never knew that, we're both post war babies.
Now we're swapping photos and updating BMD's  ;D

Leonie.
PS. That's thanks to GR.
Title: Re: "What makes these people tick" EGO?
Post by: Willow 4873 on Thursday 31 January 08 10:05 GMT (UK)
I must admit I have took my tree of GR - too many unrelated queries

Once its been off a bit and I've cleared the queries I've had I will consider putting a 'pruned' tree back on

Think my Ancestry one will be vanishing too

Saying that I do have one at Tribalpages which is an invite only one that people can search names on

Willow x