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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Somerset => England => Somerset Lookup Requests => Topic started by: moss on Friday 25 January 08 20:43 GMT (UK)

Title: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: moss on Friday 25 January 08 20:43 GMT (UK)
Hi all

Would anyone be able to find the family of Ellen Player b.1851 in Weston in gordano, Somerset? Her mother was Sarah Player b. 1826.

I'm hoping to find the name of Ellen's father and any brothers and sisters. I don't know Sarah's maiden name, so don't know if she can be traced back to the 1841 census? I'm assuming she married in the late 1840s or 1850.

Any help much appreciated
Moss

Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: SueTeakle on Friday 25 January 08 21:42 GMT (UK)
Hi Moss,

This is the best match I can find for Sarah in 1851, so far I haven`t traced Ellen in 1861, can`t seem to pick up on her at all  ???

Joseph Player, 70, ? Land, Born Henbury, Glos
Mary Player, Wife, 60, Born Portishead, Somerset
Ann Player, Dau, Unm, 39, School Mistress, Born Weston In Gordano, Somerset
Sarah Player, Dau, Unm, 26, Out Service, Born Weston In Gordano, Somerset
John Player, Son, Unm, 23, Ag Lab, Born Weston In Gordano, Somerset
Sarah Player, Grandaughter, 2, Illegitimate, Born Weston In Gordano, Somerset
Thomas Shipstone, Lodger, Wdwr, 39, Ag Lab, Born Henbury, Glos

Living in Weston In Gordano
HO107/1946/510/10


Sue
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: jamajo on Friday 25 January 08 21:51 GMT (UK)
Hi Moss,
             Found this in 1861 Portishead

Mary Player head age 72 retired
Sarah Player granddaughter age 12
Charles Player grandson age 10 b Weston

               Sue
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: SueTeakle on Friday 25 January 08 21:53 GMT (UK)
Sue did you spot any possibilities for Ellen?


Sue
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: jamajo on Friday 25 January 08 22:00 GMT (UK)
Hi Sue,
        Found no trace of her at all. Is it possible she died. Still looking though.


                              Sue
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: jamajo on Friday 25 January 08 22:06 GMT (UK)


               1871 census Portishead

Mary Player head age 81
Sarah Player granddaughter age 21 occ shop assistant
Annie Garland granddaughter age 7 b Gloucestershire
Thomas Brown grandson age 2 b Portishead

                        Sue
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: SueTeakle on Friday 25 January 08 22:10 GMT (UK)
I`ve tried every search I can think of but still can`t find Ellen, I wonder if she did die?  ???


Sue
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: jamajo on Friday 25 January 08 22:13 GMT (UK)

 Also in 1871

Sarah Player Head age 45 occ lodging house keeper
Charles J Morewood lodger age 27 b Southhampton
Martha Brown Niece age 10 b Portishead
Mary Powell servant age 21 b Merthyr Cynog Wales

            Sue

Still no sign of Ellen
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: moss on Friday 25 January 08 22:15 GMT (UK)
Hi Sues

Player was Sarah's married name, I don't know what she was before. I was hoping if we could find Ellen in the 1861, (she would be 10) it would show her father and then maybe I could find a marriage record for him and Sarah.

Ellen married John Copestake in Bristol in 1873 but the 1881 census shows Sarah still living in Weston

Moss
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: jamajo on Friday 25 January 08 22:22 GMT (UK)
And in 1891 in Wanstead Essex


Sarah Player age 65 mother in law retired
John Copestake head aqe 48 b Derby
Ellen Copestake (Ellen Player) wife age 39 b Portishead
Frederick Coprstake son age 16 b Newport Monmouthshire occ Clerk

FOUND HER AT LAST.

                       Sue
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: SueTeakle on Friday 25 January 08 22:25 GMT (UK)
Well done Sue  ;D ;D ;D  I wonder where she was hiding in 1861  ???


Sue
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: moss on Friday 25 January 08 22:29 GMT (UK)
And no trace of her before that?  ???

I wonder where they all were? Maybe John Player that you found in 1841 was her father?

Weston in gordano is only a dot so there can't have been too many Players around surely? Hmmm..

Moss
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: jamajo on Friday 25 January 08 22:30 GMT (UK)
Hi Sue
        In 1851 census she is down as unmarried and i thought Mary was her mother. Her name didnt change  in other census.
 If she married before 51 why didnt she have husbands name or have i got mixed up along the way. ??? ??? ???

    Sue
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: tazzie on Friday 25 January 08 22:36 GMT (UK)



   I have looked on the 1881 census and she is down as unmarried witha sister Maria Player also unmarried.

                     Tazzie
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: SueTeakle on Friday 25 January 08 22:37 GMT (UK)
No Sue you haven`t got mixed up  :)  The elder Sarah was listed as unmarried and living with her parents and daughter Sarah in 1851...........maybe she never actually married?
Moss have you any info regarding a marriage?


Sue
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: SueTeakle on Friday 25 January 08 22:38 GMT (UK)
Thanks Tazzie, I`m glad it`s not just us Sues seeing things  ;D


Sue
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: jamajo on Friday 25 January 08 22:41 GMT (UK)

   Could this be her death

Sarah Player d Jan Feb Mar 1909 age 83 in West Ham Essex Greater London. Vol 4a Page 170
    Dont know for sure this is her though.

                    Sue
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: tazzie on Friday 25 January 08 22:43 GMT (UK)


   Hi siting of Sarah in 1861 ...RG9/1711 F 114 P 21

  PORTISHEAD

  Sarah Player serv 36 u   ladies maid  Weston

  indexed as Playd  ::)

                  Tazzie
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: jamajo on Friday 25 January 08 22:46 GMT (UK)
     


                Great work Tazzie, Couldnt find her at all in 61  :) :) :)

                                  Sue
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: tazzie on Friday 25 January 08 22:52 GMT (UK)


  Ok we seem to have pinpointed Sarah. She seems to be unmarried on cenus.
 In 1861 the head of the house is a proprietor of house...but cannot see lodgers could she have taken over from her boss.

  Do we think that maybe ...Sarah age 2 in 1851 could be Sarah Ellen? maybe

           Tazzie   in need of coffee ???
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: SueTeakle on Friday 25 January 08 22:57 GMT (UK)
I`m beginning to think you could be right Tazzie  :)  I`ve been searching for Ellen in 1861 for ages and there`s not a single good match  :'(


Sue
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: jamajo on Friday 25 January 08 23:02 GMT (UK)


  Ive searched and i cant find a death for her either. I dont know about a coffee Tazzie a bacardi and coke with ice would go down lovely now. ;D ;D ;D ;D

                                      Sue
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: tazzie on Friday 25 January 08 23:05 GMT (UK)

   Hi Sue ...

 There is a birth in 1849 Bedminster which is the right area, however it is just for Sarah not Sarah Ellen.... however mine have been known to "adopt a second name" even if they already have another middle name anyway.

  I have had a Mary Ann become Jane ...as her mother was Mary Ann as well they must have thought it would stop confusion...didn't think about me 120 years later searching for them...but the certs all matched so ..

   We will wait to see what Moss thinks

                     Tazzie

   Sue  ;D  make mine a double 8)
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: SueTeakle on Friday 25 January 08 23:09 GMT (UK)
Tazzie I`ve just spotted that birth, looks a possibility  :)  I`ll have a double as well please  ;D


Sue
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: tazzie on Friday 25 January 08 23:13 GMT (UK)


   If the death is right how about this for 1901

  Sarah Player boarder widow 75 Somerset  (Jordans)

  RG13/1564 F 134 P 17  West Ham

  Now I can read the birth place as looking more like GORDANO...What do you think?

                                     Tazzie
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: jamajo on Friday 25 January 08 23:16 GMT (UK)


Well i dont know if you two agree but i think weve cracked it.  YIPeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


                                    Sue   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: SueTeakle on Friday 25 January 08 23:24 GMT (UK)
Agreed Tazzie, definitely looks like Gordano  :)


Sue
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: tazzie on Friday 25 January 08 23:25 GMT (UK)


   I think it looks good .... ;)

            ;D ;D ;D  getting my drink now ....cheers

                              Tazzie
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: SueTeakle on Friday 25 January 08 23:27 GMT (UK)
Just one thing............why did Moss think it was her married name, he seemed quite sure about that  ???


Sue
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: tazzie on Friday 25 January 08 23:33 GMT (UK)



   Hmmmm...not sure .maybe if moss has seen the 1901 as on there it says widow.

  I think moss and I are distant cousins if I remember right. Correct me if I ma wrong moss.

                             Tazzie
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: SueTeakle on Friday 25 January 08 23:36 GMT (UK)
Aaaah yes Tazzie, that could be the reason, but it appears to be more for the sake of propriety  :)


Sue
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: moss on Saturday 26 January 08 10:55 GMT (UK)
Hi all

How's the head this morning after all those doubles last night ;D

I think I've set off a storm here but there seems to be some confusion.  Sarah was probably not born Player, that was her married name, but I don't know who her husband was. (Actually reading all your replies it looks as though you think she was an unmarried mother, so there may be no marriage to find - oops) But it could be that we won't find Sarah, because she could be Sarah anybody. I only know her birth year through the 1881 census. (around 1826)


   Could this be her death

Sarah Player d Jan Feb Mar 1909 age 83 in West Ham Essex Greater London.
                   

This may well be her as her grandson (Frederick J Copestake) was living in West Ham at this time with wife Eliza.


However, I'm hoping we can find Ellen Player, her daughter, who was born in 1851 in W in G. If there is a record of Ellen, there may also be a record of her parents and maybe other family. If I can find her father this may help me to find a record of his marriage to Sarah  ??? But it's not looking hopeful if you haven't been able to find her so far. Ellen married in Bristol  Nov 1873 (John Copestake) so it's possible she wasn't in W in G for long?? Oh these ancestors, slippery customers aren't they?

Hi Tazzie - yes I think we link somewhere. Have you found any more on old Samuel Liscoe?

Moss
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: jamajo on Saturday 26 January 08 11:47 GMT (UK)
Hi Moss,
           Found her in 1901 in West Ham

John Copestake head age 58 b Derby
Ellen wife age 50 b Weston in Gordano

               Sue  :) :) :)

Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: tazzie on Saturday 26 January 08 14:02 GMT (UK)



   Hi all...... 8)   

  Hello cousin yep back to the Liscoe's and little progress there need a visit to LMA.

  Back to Ellen do you have her marriage cert. If a father or supposed father is named we may have a clue. However I cannot see a birth for Eleen in the right place at the right time. IF she is Sarah's daughter she may have called herself Ellen to tell the two apart.

  I would bite the bullet and get the cert, think thats best way forward .

            Let me know.

   I will pm some snippets on Richard Samuel Liscoe if you want. Let me know don't want to bog you down .

                          Tazzie
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: moss on Saturday 26 January 08 17:30 GMT (UK)
 I think you're right about the marriage cert. It doesn't look as if I'm going to get anywhere otherwise.

thanks all for trying

Yes post me your snippets of Richard - as they say, every little helps! :)

Moss
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: gofarby on Tuesday 27 May 08 21:08 BST (UK)
Hi
I have a Sarah Player born about 1825 in Weston in Gordano.  She was 1 of 8 children born to Joseph Player & Mary (surname unknown).   Sarah's sister, Martha born about 1830 in Weston in Gordano married Thomas Brown in Portishead in 1854 and they had 3 children (all seem to have been born in Portishead), Mary Ellen, Martha & Thomas.   Thomas was born 11 March 1863 and so perhaps is not the grandson aged 2 in the 1871 census, but Martha Brown aged 10 in the 1871 census could be Martha & Thomas' child and, therefore, Sarah Player's niece.
It seems from your searches that Sarah's sister, Ellen, married John Copestake and had a son, Frederick in Monmouthshire (which I was not aware of).
I am really anxious to trace Mary Player as I have a sampler stitched by her indicating "M P to A C 1796".   If you have any details of Mary and whoever A C is I would be very pleased as I have been trying to trace Mary for many years.
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: moss on Wednesday 28 May 08 13:11 BST (UK)
I don't know that I can help much. If the sampler was made in 1796 then it couldn't have been done by Mary Player wife of Joseph as she was born c. 1791 so would have been too young.

Joseph's mother or a sister could have been a Mary but I have not been able to trace his earlier family. He was born in Henbury, Glos. c. 1781. I have made a note and if I find out anything I'll get back to you.

Incidentally I only knew of 5 children for Joseph and Mary. I have Sarah, Martha, Ann, John and Maria. Do you know the other 3?

Regards
Moss
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: gofarby on Wednesday 28 May 08 18:00 BST (UK)
I don't have an Ann but the other children were -
Elizabeth c 1814
William c 1816
Samuel c1819
Maria c1823
Sarah c1825
John c1828
Martha c1830 - died 21 June 1870

There is a grave inscription in St Peter's Portishead as follows -
Thomas (c1738) & his wife Mary (c1765), Mary Ellen (1858) & her parents Thomas & Martha.  Also Mary Coombs b2.1.1836 d14.3.1868"

Thomas & Mary are the parents of Thomas Brown (b19 May 1831), husband of Martha Player and g-parents of Mary Ellen.   Mary Coombs (nee Brown) was the sister of Thomas Brown (b19 May 1831).

This info may not be of interest to you as it mostly relates to the Brown family (my husband's maternal ancestors).   If you have any information on Brown I would be most grateful.

I  have been told (but don't have the documentation) that a Joseph Player married  Mary Dowting/Doughting at St James, Bristol on 25 March 1811 - could this be our Joseph & Mary?   They had children baptised (Susannah, Elizabeth & Martha - but no record of Mary).  There is also reference to the name Battman in relation to the baptisms.   Does this make any sense to you?
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: moss on Thursday 29 May 08 20:16 BST (UK)
Hi

The 1811 marriage date for Joseph and Mary would tie in well with the arrival of the children. Ann was the eldest born in 1812. The 1851 census has her unmarried, aged 39 and living with her parents. She was a schoolmistress.


could this be our Joseph & Mary?   They had children baptised (Susannah, Elizabeth & Martha - but no record of Mary). 

Our Joseph and Mary had the 8 children we've already mentioned, is Susannah another one or do these 3 belong somewhere else? There is a Maria but no Mary. Not sure about Battman, will dig around :)
Title: Re: 1851/1861 look up please PLAYER
Post by: DaveDave on Wednesday 18 March 09 12:57 GMT (UK)
We're trying to find the birth place of Samuel Player (and possible brother William Player) who came to Scotland mid-1790's.  Samuel enlisted in a Fencible regiment and William died in Flanders.  We don't know if they are related and we don't know where they were born.

We've searched everywhere - National Archives don't have his place of birth and so on...

I'm hoping we can find another Player family tree that has a Samuel (and possibly a William) Player so we can explore the possibility of a connection.

As they enlisted in 1795, we can presume they were around 20 years of age (give or take a few years each way) so their year of birth must've been around 1770-75.

Samuel Player was the first Player in Scotland and all Scottish Players are his descendants.

We're stuck and seem to have run out of avenues to explore.  Any ideas anyone?