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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: DudleyWinchurch on Wednesday 23 January 08 21:59 GMT (UK)

Title: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Wednesday 23 January 08 21:59 GMT (UK)
Hi all,

Instead of just looking at direct family I wondered if anyone else out there is searching the same area as me?

Not sure if this is the best place for this (rather than the Staffordshire forum, for example) but it's a little bit off direct FH so I thought I'd try here (if it's in the wrong place, I guess the MODs will move it where it ought to be).

I've found that several generations of one branch of my family lived in Bilston throughout the 19th Century and possibly earlier. 

I've searched through the census pages and also been lucky enough to find Church records for many that even tell me the names of their godparents. 

They were large families with lots of girls so I have found connections to many other local families. 

Is there anyone else out there whose family come from 19th Century Bilston?  It seems to have been a melting pot for folk from many parts of Britain, including Wales and Ireland.

Occupations include Miners, Forge Workers (including Labourers and Engineers), Japanners, Stove Enamellers, Shopkeepers, Publicans, Schoolteachers - often with quite a mix of these in the same family.

So any other Bilston researchers who would like to chat, I'd love to hear from you.   :D 

We might even have families in common, even if the relationships are tenuous.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Thursday 24 January 08 13:40 GMT (UK)
Glad to see people are reading this - but no responses yet  :'(

Just to start you off, I'm going to list some of the 3-4 dozen names I have already found as godparents (with the approx. dates when they did so).

These don't appear in my SIT, as they are not related (or not yet as far as I know) but obviously have some connection with my family (hence the interest in all their friends and neighbours).

James Tate - 1840
Jane Homer - 1840, 1843
Martha Smith (acted as proxy for someone who is a relative, 1848)
Elizabeth Johnson - 1850 (may be a relative)
Daniel Bowlan - 1851
Ann Roonay/Rooney - 1851 (also as Ann Cullen, 1861, 1863)
Joseph Shale - 1853, 1859, 1861
Mary Ann Shale - 1859, 1861
Obediah Johnson - 1855, 1867 (possibly a relative)
Sarah Lyth - 1855 (definitely a neighbour)
James Cummins - 1857
Mary Tunny - 1857
John and Maria Burke - 1859, 1863
Jeremiah Kennedy - 1861
John McNicholas - 1863
Agnes Shale - 1864
John Joseph Joice - 1865
Mary Ann Hayes - 1865
Agnes Cockhill - 1867

LOTS MORE ...

If any of these belong to you, I can give you details of when they appeared as godparents  and to whom and maybe you could tell us a little more about them.   :)

Also note, these come from Latin records so Ann could also be Annie, Hannah or Nancy, Mary could be Maria and vv. etc.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours
Post by: leighton on Thursday 24 January 08 18:43 GMT (UK)
Hello Dud,

I have a g g grandfather who was born in Bilston. Henry Williams was born and baptised in December 1837. His parents were William Williams and Sarah Jones, Oxford Road, Bilston. They were married in Wolverhampton in May 1832 and lived in Bilston at least until about 1841. After that they moved to West Bromwich. They had nine children, six in Bilston and three in West Bromwich.

William was a Forgeman and was born about 1807. He gave his birthplace as Shropshire. Sarah was born about 1813 in Bilston. I have not been able to extend either of them any further back.

Leighton
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours
Post by: Arranroots on Thursday 24 January 08 19:28 GMT (UK)
Hello Dud

I have moved this to Staffordshire because I am hopeful that you will get a more "tuned-in" audience here!

kind regards, Arranroots  ;)

Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours
Post by: littleclaire on Thursday 24 January 08 21:42 GMT (UK)
Lots of my family come from Bilston area.....

Nicholls (lots and lots - you name them I'll be related!)
Hartell (from 18th century back)
Smallman (from 17th century and back)
Haley (from 17th century and back)

Anything that you have would be interesting - or you might be researching one of these lines!
Let me know....
Claire
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours
Post by: littleclaire on Thursday 24 January 08 21:44 GMT (UK)
In fact... one of the Nicholls' married a Dudley (Mary Dudley born about 1807)

 :D
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours
Post by: Ruth J on Thursday 24 January 08 22:28 GMT (UK)
littleClaire,

Did any of your Nicholls marry a Spruson?

Ruth j
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours
Post by: littleclaire on Thursday 24 January 08 22:33 GMT (UK)
not as far as I know, but there is still space for more marriages!
Claire
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Thursday 24 January 08 22:56 GMT (UK)
Hi All.

just got home and great to see everyone is talking about this.

Thanks Arranroots - I wasn't sure if I was allowed to use the main boards for talking about friends and neighbours who might not be relatives.

Leighton, I have a Williams family but not tracked before the 1880s so far as a Philip Williams b. 1883 married the daughter of one of my Dudley girls in 1914.  They were a big family still living in Bilston up to the 1900s.

Claire, I have a Thomas Hartill as a godfather in 1887?  
I'm very interested in your Mary Dudley.  My GGGGrandfather was Benjamin Dudley and he married a Mary Johnson in 1810.  Although they had several girls, who all seem to have been baptised in Bilston,  none of them were called Mary but if he'd been married before (it doesn't say in the parish record) and already had a Mary, that would make sense.  Do you know anything more about her?

For everyone else, I'll add some more names soon so keep asking about anyone you're looking for.  Each of these names is mentioned in a parish record that I have made notes from and/or photographed.  Obviously there may be more names as there are often more than one record clearly visible on these pictures and I will look again when I have a list of names to look for.

Most of the records but not all are from the Holy Trinity Church registers so if you know that some of your family were Catholic or married Catholics they may well be there.  I seem to have had family of several different denominations in Bilston.

Sheila

Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Friday 25 January 08 08:06 GMT (UK)
Another list of names ...

Mary Ann Chillington - 1867
John McNully/MCNulty/McNolty? - 1868m 1889
Eliza Joyce - 1868
William Jones - 1870
John O'Brien - 1870
Bridget Taylor - 1870
Benjamin Shale - 1871, 1888
John Clarke - 1872
Mary Clynes - 1874
Matthew Ward - 1876
Francis Scally - 1877
Jane Clynes - 1877
Joseph Wright - 1880, 1881
Frances Wright - 1880
John Farrell - 1881
Johanna/Jane? Jones - 1881
Joseph and Elizabeth Corkindale - 1883 (related to Williams family?)
John Kelly - 1887
Thomas Hartill - 1887
Maria Parmer - 1887

Remember:
that dates are when they became godparents
first names are translated from Latin in many cases
family names also seem to have very variable spelling in that register

There are still more names and the ones I've listed here are just godparents to my family.  I also have records of baptisms of children of some of these people and some marriage details, so a lot more names too.  So do get in touch if your family were in Bilston at around that time (any time 19th or early 20th Centuries)
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours
Post by: alunno-a on Friday 25 January 08 08:34 GMT (UK)
Hi there,
Have you come across a Horton family??
I have done very little on my tree branch as yet, but do know I have a lot of Hortons from the Bilston area who left for work in the mills around Haslingden, Lancs around the 1850 (I think)-poss originally iron workers, in nail factory???--this I think-the shift to mill towns-was a common occurence for Bilston folk- there are a lot on the Lancs census.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Friday 25 January 08 17:12 GMT (UK)
Sorry Alunno-a,

No Hortons in my transcriptions but will look our for them next time I go through all the images.

A few more family names I definitely have some, information on:
Titley, Wilson, Brown, Goodreid, Lambert, Lees, Woodall, Lewis, Pearsall, Green, Cox (two different families), Davies, King, Fisher, Mottram, Lawton

All had someone who married members of my Bilston families, so related by marriage.

Sheila
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Sunday 27 January 08 06:15 GMT (UK)
Adding another set of names - but I have some records for many more so let me know of any Bilston folk you are interested in.

again, these dates are the times when they were godparents
Martha Shale - 1888
John Clynes - 1890
Jane Hayes - 1890
Thomas Patrick Kearnes - 1892, 1895
Margaret Ann Kearnes - 1892
Peter Lewis - 1894
Anna Welsh - 1894
Maria Kearnes - 1895
Catherine Lewis - 1896
Walter Hugo Delaney - 1897
Margaret Ingoldsby - 1897
Bidelia Coyne - 1897
William Marsh - 1898
Ann(a) Danks - 1898
Mary Blunt - 1899
Maria Pinner - 1905
Edward Maloney - 1908
Maria Higgins - 1908

I felt sure that with all these names there would be more people out there researching,

Sheila
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: down-under on Sunday 27 January 08 09:57 GMT (UK)
Hello


I have been told my grandfather James Jones came from the Black Country I have no idea where and when he was born. My mother was born 1918 and she was one of the youngest so far I am not sure where and when James Jones and my grandmother Rose Pearsall married.



Regards Pam
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Sunday 27 January 08 10:13 GMT (UK)
Hi Pam,

My great-grandfather's brother, William Dudley married Nancy Pearsall at Holy Trinity Church in December 1880. Unfortunately Nancy died the following year and I haven't yet traced her family.

There were lots of Jones families in Bilston during the 19th century

from FREEBMD

Marriages Dec 1902   (>99%)
~~~~~~~~
 
Jones  James    Aston  6d 433   
Pearsall  Rose Anna G     Aston  6d 433   
SHIPLEY  Edward William     Aston  6d 433   
Tandy  Effie     Aston  6d 433   

Could these be your Grandparents?  I think that Aston is now a district of Birmingham but it is also not far from Bilston and I have family who later moved to Aston.

Sheila
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: down-under on Sunday 27 January 08 10:27 GMT (UK)
Hello

Thank you for your prompt reply.

I do have that certificate  saya James age 21 father Edward and Rose age 19 father Samuel  but on the birth certificates I have the mother is only Rose nee Pearsall.  My mother died at 54 before I was interested in Genealogy  and also my father.

On the marriage certificate of my mother Edith in 1945 she was 26 it says father deceased. We did not seem to have much to do with Rose something to do with my father he did not allow it. 

I cannot prove that these are the correct grandparents.

If I was in Birmingham I would be at the library  searching the voters lists .

I know they were in Berkeley road before the war and that James was a gas foreman.


Regards Pam
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Sunday 27 January 08 10:38 GMT (UK)
Just found that according to NA site, there is a Rose Pearsall aged 17, living in Aston, who is an Iron Nail Rivetter?

There don't seem to be any other Pearsalls on the same census sheet.

If she was 17 at the beginning of 1901, she could well have been 19 at the end of 1902!

S.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Sunday 27 January 08 10:43 GMT (UK)
In 1891, what appears to be that same Rose, was already in Aston, on the same census page as a Samuel born about 1872, in Cheshire.

Maybe someone with full access to Ancestry  can give you the complete details.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: down-under on Sunday 27 January 08 10:50 GMT (UK)
Thank you very much for your help.


I do have ancestry and have looked.  James does not seem to have a middle name.

I would love to claim this family, but cannot prove them relatives, I have moms birth certificate also and a Violet and Alice.

The other siblings were born before the mothers maiden name was listed .  I know of a Beatrice and James maybe a Frederick and Lucy  but Alice was the only one we had contact with.

Many thanks

Regards Pam



Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: RoDe on Sunday 27 January 08 11:57 GMT (UK)
 :D
Hi Dudley
Thought I was the only one researching family history in the Bilston area.  Five generations of the Harris family including myself were born in Bilston. Very new to this subject so have only got as far back as my great great granddad. born 1828 - died 1866. Names so far -

Abraham Thomas Harris - Father B.1907
Abraham Thomas Harris - Grandfather B.1880
John Henry Harris - Great grandfather B.1851
Abraham Harris -Great great grandfather B.1828

There is a history of work in the steel industry, which was big in the Bilston area in those days, with jobs such as Brass Polisher, Ironworker, Pudler, Iron Furnace Millman shown as occupations on Birth/Death certificates etc.  On my grandmothers side Black Japanners are listed occupations.

Other names I will be researching in due course are Martha Ellen Betts, Sarah Hughes and Sarah Caddick, all probably from Bilston as well.  There were a lot of family's in Bilston during the 1800's. Between 1801 and 1901 the population grew from 6,914 to 24,034.

Regards
Roy Harris

 
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Sunday 27 January 08 12:37 GMT (UK)
Hi Roy,

I don't think I've come across any Harris folk connected with my family as yet but we certainly have Furnace labourers and Engineers and Pud(d)lers and many of the girls were Japanners.

The main names I am tracing back in Bilston are McDonough, Dudley and Winchurch but these families married into many more families and seem to have had lots of friends in Bilston too.

I've only been researching just over a year but have learned a lot of history in the mean-time and am very interested in how they lived and worked.  I took a walk around the area last summer but a lot of it has disappeared for the Black Country Route and much has been rebuilt.  There were still some interesting old buildings and the churches remain but not a lot of the gravestones.

My father's family seems to have moved into Wolverhampton about 1912 but the Dudley line seem to have been in Bilston from before 1800, the Winchurches arriving in the early 1820s and the McDonoughs probably 1851 but there were other McDonough families there before that who may be related too.

Sheila
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Monday 28 January 08 13:59 GMT (UK)
Hiya all

Just thought I would add my lot to the mix

William Jones b 1824 parents John and Elizabeth nee Horton. elizabeth was born Wolverhampton

William was a carpenter who married Ann Maria Harley b 1825 Darlaston

They had children Annie (ggrandmother) b 1867, Esther b 1864, George b 1859, Susannah b 1861,  Emma b 1855, Eunice b 1852, Harriet b 1849 and Sarah Ann b & d 1859

As you said there were/are a lot of Jones's in Bilston

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: jacquelineve on Monday 28 January 08 16:29 GMT (UK)


  A long shot!!!

               Any Durkins?

                   Jackie.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: elf on Monday 28 January 08 16:44 GMT (UK)
Hi Jackie
None of your Durkins moved up to Barrow in Furness did they I had a friend at school and she was a Durkin .
My family around the Bilston area were Fieldhouses .
Sue
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Monday 28 January 08 16:47 GMT (UK)
Hiya Roy

Don't forget the mines either - after all Bilston has a habit of dropping down into the shafts every now and then lol

Sheila did you go to Bilston cemetery?

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Monday 28 January 08 16:55 GMT (UK)

Hi Jackie,
not a long shot at all,
Plenty of Durkins and Durkans in the Holy Trinity records but don't seem to have much in my transcriptions.  I'll go through the images again as soon as I have time but can't today, I'm sorry.  If there are none there I'll look out for them on my next visit to the Archdiocesan archives.

Hi Willow,
I've not been to the main cemetery yet but I now have a grave number for my grandparents and great-grandparents so will do so on my next visit back to the Black Country.

Sheila
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Trees on Monday 28 January 08 16:56 GMT (UK)
I have Joseph SMITH b 1789 Bilston no idea of his parents place and date from the 1851 census.
Fanny CRITCHLEY daughter of John (from her marriage) b 1848 Bilston from 1871 census
 Plenty of people in Dudley including a family of Dudley in Dudley.
Trees
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: littleclaire on Monday 28 January 08 18:11 GMT (UK)

Claire, I have a Thomas Hartill as a godfather in 1887? 
I'm very interested in your Mary Dudley.  My GGGGrandfather was Benjamin Dudley and he married a Mary Johnson in 1810.  Although they had several girls, who all seem to have been baptised in Bilston,  none of them were called Mary but if he'd been married before (it doesn't say in the parish record) and already had a Mary, that would make sense.  Do you know anything more about her?


Sorry - took my time!
I haven't gone down my tree on the Harthill side so not sure about Thomas - will keep him in mind!
Mary Dudley was born in 1807 in Sedgeley. She married John Nicholls on 30 Jul 1827 in St Peters, Wolverhampton. They had a number of children - Thomas (1829), John (1831), Mary A (1833), Eleanor (1835) all born in Bilston, Jane (1837) (born Leamington), David Dudley (1841) (born Sedgeley), William Dudley (1845), Martha (1847), both born Tipton.
I have no information on her parents, but I hope this info helps!

Claire
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: RoDe on Tuesday 29 January 08 12:35 GMT (UK)
Hi all

Just a wee note for anyone searching for people actually born in Bilston pre GRO records bear in mind details recorded at St Leonards Church. These records are now held at Staffordshire Record Office, Stafford @ www.staffordshire.gov.uk though probably all you experienced researchers know this already.

Regards
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Trees on Tuesday 29 January 08 12:49 GMT (UK)

Thank you RoDe for that reminder by the way welcome to Roots chat I hope you are getting plenty of help and having fun exploring all the boards  :)
Trees
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: RoDe on Tuesday 29 January 08 13:14 GMT (UK)
Hi Trees
Yeh, finding it a great help though still trying to navigate round the available tools etc. I am very much a novice at the moment (only started in December 2007) and my research hasn't been helped due to family documents disappearing when my surviving parent, my mother, started to suffer with dementia some years before I had even started to get interested in my family history. With hindsight I should have taken any surviving documents into 'safe custody' but didn't so I have had to start from scratch.  Getting hooked now.  It's rather like hiil walking. As soon as you get over one crest there is a immediate desire to see what's over the next.  Got back so far to my great great granddad, B.1828 - D.1866 (38 years old) leaving a wife and six children.  Must have been very hard in those days without any state help.  Sorry to rabbit on but once I start I can't stop.
That's all for now
Cheers
Roy
 8)
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Trees on Tuesday 29 January 08 13:32 GMT (UK)
Do you have any dates for the Sarahs Hughes and Caddick I assume you have seen that there are several in the Family Search parish register transcript C010562?
Trees
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Tuesday 29 January 08 13:57 GMT (UK)
Hi Roy and Trees,

what a good idea to add links to local resources here too.

Don't forget www.FREEREG.org already has a lot of trascriptions for Bilston (and also for Wolverhampton, St Peter's where many of the marriages took place).

Also the Wolverhampton Archives web site not only has older register transcriptions for Bilston, St Leonard's and W'ton, St Peters but also lists of the victims and the families receiving groceries (presumably because they were quarantined) during the 1832 Bilston Cholera epidemic.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Trees on Tuesday 29 January 08 14:42 GMT (UK)
Thanks for that Dudley I think this is the link we need http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/STS/Bilston/index.html
Wish I'd found that Cholera information when I was preparing my page on the disease for our web wouldn't it be wonderful if we could access all parish records like these?
Trees
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Tuesday 29 January 08 22:01 GMT (UK)
Just done a quick trawl through the first set of images I have from Holy Trinity register and found a few records wth names that have been mentioned here.  If they belong to any of you then let me know and I can transcribe them properly.

December 1841, Daniel Caddick s/o John and Mary(Maria) Manney, godmother Ellen (Helena) Caddick

March 1843 John Nicholls (or could be Nicholds) godfather to David Barwick s/o Patrick and Margaret (Reigney)

Aug 1851, Denis Durkan witness to marrige of Ambrose Cummins and Mary Ann Regan

June 1839 John Durkan s/o Patrick & Bridget (McDonney)

Dec 1846, John Durkin godfather to Catherine McDonough d/o Richard & Bridget (Fagan)

Oct 1852, Patrick Durkin, godfather to Mary Fahi d/o John & Mary (or Maria) (Kelly)

The handwriting is not good and some of the pages badly faded so apologies in advance for inaccuracies.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Trees on Tuesday 29 January 08 22:17 GMT (UK)
I got excited thought I'd found my Joseph 1789 from the 51 census it looked like he was son of Thomas & Elizabeth until I saw his death the nearest is Joseph son of Joseph and Martha  1793 I wonder is he too far out though I think he dies between the 51 and 61 censuses probably in Willenhall must find his death to confirm his birth year.
Trees
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: RoDe on Wednesday 30 January 08 18:12 GMT (UK)
Hi Roy and Trees,

what a good idea to add links to local resources here too.

Don't forget www.FREEREG.org already has a lot of transcriptions for Bilston (and also for Wolverhampton, St Peter's where many of the marriages took place).

Also the Wolverhampton Archives web site not only has older register transcriptions for Bilston, St Leonard's and W'ton, St Peters but also lists of the victims and the families receiving groceries (presumably because they were quarantined) during the 1832 Bilston Cholera epidemic.
Thanks Dudley. I knew about FREEBMD but not FREEREG. Just done a search for my great great grandfather Abraham Harris but no result found. Can only assume it's one that hasn't yet been transcribed.  Had already planned to visit Stafford Records Office to search for his d.o.b. but may use Wolverhampton archives instead, if as you say, they hold St Leonard's records as there is other research I need to do there.
Cheers
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Trees on Wednesday 30 January 08 18:36 GMT (UK)
Rode have you seen the 1891 census for Bilston? This is amazing if it turns out to be yours
RG12 2242 fo 62 p29
There are three households that could be interesting
Sch 124 8 Back 65 Bilston St 3rms
John Hnry HARRIS 39 Iron wks lab
Sarah wife 40
Annie 15 tin worker
Sarah 18
Priscilla 7
Fanny 4
In the same  house but also having 3 rm sch 125
Thomas HUGHES 33 iron wrkr
Susanna wife 29
Annie 2
John 5mnth
Finally sch 127 10 Back 65 Bilston St
Mary J HUGHES 1821 France!
John HUGHES38 son Iron wkr
Mary HARRIS Gd Daur18 Tin wkr
Thomas Gd Son Born 1881
There are also 2 visitors

Now do any of these names ring bells Have we stumbled on both your Hughes and Thomas Harris were they cousins??
Trees
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Trees on Wednesday 30 January 08 18:48 GMT (UK)
Ignore the last of course you are after Abraham T not Thomas Harris there is an Abraham T on the 1881 in Bilston he is son of John Hnry !852and Sarah RG11 2813 sc 44 Bilston St 2 Smith's buildings They have Hannah  5 and Sarah E 3
Trees
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Dartmoor on Thursday 31 January 08 19:54 GMT (UK)


  A long shot!!!

               Any Durkins?

                   Jackie.

Found this record above my ancestor in the RC Bilston parish records it is written in Latin as are the names:

17 April 1842 baptism
Sara (Sarah) ALLIGAN
Daughter of Jacob (James) ALLIGAN and Maria (Mary) DURKIN (DUNKAN)
Witness Maria (Mary) Conway
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: jacquelineve on Friday 01 February 08 16:04 GMT (UK)

 Thanks to you both Dudley + Dartmoor for Durkin info,

sadly can't see a connection to my D's.

   Your time appreciated.

              Jackie.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: RoDe on Friday 01 February 08 16:56 GMT (UK)
Rode have you seen the 1891 census for Bilston? This is amazing if it turns out to be yours
RG12 2242 fo 62 p29
There are three households that could be interesting
Sch 124 8 Back 65 Bilston St 3rms
John Hnry HARRIS 39 Iron wks lab
Sarah wife 40
Annie 15 tin worker
Sarah 18
Priscilla 7
Fanny 4
In the same  house but also having 3 rm sch 125
Thomas HUGHES 33 iron wrkr
Susanna wife 29
Annie 2
John 5mnth
Finally sch 127 10 Back 65 Bilston St
Mary J HUGHES 1821 France!
John HUGHES38 son Iron wkr
Mary HARRIS Gd Daur18 Tin wkr
Thomas Gd Son Born 1881
There are also 2 visitors

Now do any of these names ring bells Have we stumbled on both your Hughes and Thomas Harris were they cousins??
Trees
Hi Trees
Thanks very much for the info. Looks a good shot.

Firstly my grandfather was born at 2 Bilston Street, Millfields but can't find this Bilston Street on the A-Z, only Bilston Street names in other areas of Wolverhampton/Darlaston/Wednesfield. It most likely has been redeveloped but will be checking this out at Wolverhampton archives in due course. Although the John Henry above was living at number 65 in 1891 the family may well have moved between my grandfathers birth in 1880 and 1891.

Secondly, the age looks right for John Henry who was born in 1851. The one year difference could be accounted for by age rounding up at the time the census was taken.

Thirdly, my grandfather's birth certificate shows his father (John Henry) as Ironworker.

Fourthly, although my great great gradfather (Abraham) had a daughter called Mary she would have been aged 32 in 1891 so the Mary shown above can't be great grandfathers daughter.

Lastly, John Henry's wife was Sarah Hughes so could well have been related to the other Hughes shown.

A tenuous link is that of John Henry's daughters Sarah and Fanny.  Great great granddad (Abraham) also had daughters in 1861 with the same names. There seems to be a history of naming Harris children after ancestors (three Abrahams in four generations). Very original the Harris clan.

On the question of census returns I haven't yet really been delving into this very much but will have to start very soon.  Again, thanks very much for the information.  Hope I can return the favour in due course.
Rgds
Roy


Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: RoDe on Friday 01 February 08 17:02 GMT (UK)
Rode have you seen the 1891 census for Bilston? This is amazing if it turns out to be yours
RG12 2242 fo 62 p29
There are three households that could be interesting
Sch 124 8 Back 65 Bilston St 3rms
John Hnry HARRIS 39 Iron wks lab
Sarah wife 40
Annie 15 tin worker
Sarah 18
Priscilla 7
Fanny 4
In the same  house but also having 3 rm sch 125
Thomas HUGHES 33 iron wrkr
Susanna wife 29
Annie 2
John 5mnth
Finally sch 127 10 Back 65 Bilston St
Mary J HUGHES 1821 France!
John HUGHES38 son Iron wkr
Mary HARRIS Gd Daur18 Tin wkr
Thomas Gd Son Born 1881
There are also 2 visitors

Now do any of these names ring bells Have we stumbled on both your Hughes and Thomas Harris were they cousins??
Trees
Hi Trees
Thanks very much for the info. Looks a good shot.

Firstly my grandfather was born at 2 Bilston Street, Millfields but can't find this Bilston Street on the A-Z, only Bilston Street names in other areas of Wolverhampton/Darlaston/Wednesfield. It most likely has been redeveloped but will be checking this out at Wolverhampton archives in due course. Although the John Henry above was living at number 65 in 1891 the family may well have moved between my grandfathers birth in 1880 and 1891.

Secondly, the age looks right for John Henry who was born in 1851. The one year difference could be accounted for by age rounding up at the time the census was taken.

Thirdly, my grandfather's birth certificate shows his father (John Henry) as Ironworker.

Fourthly, although my great great gradfather (Abraham) had a daughter called Mary she would have been aged 32 in 1891 so the Mary shown above can't be great grandfathers daughter.

Lastly, John Henry's wife was Sarah Hughes so could well have been related to the other Hughes shown.

A tenuous link is that of John Henry's daughters Sarah and Fanny.  Great great granddad (Abraham) also had daughters in 1861 with the same names. There seems to be a history of naming Harris children after ancestors (three Abrahams in four generations). Very original the Harris clan.

On the question of census returns I haven't yet really been delving into this very much but will have to start very soon.  Again, thanks very much for the information.  Hope I can return the favour in due course.
Rgds
Roy



An afterthought. Thomas Hughes could be a brother of John Henry's wife Sarah.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: RoDe on Saturday 02 February 08 12:02 GMT (UK)
Rode have you seen the 1891 census for Bilston? This is amazing if it turns out to be yours
RG12 2242 fo 62 p29
There are three households that could be interesting
Sch 124 8 Back 65 Bilston St 3rms
John Hnry HARRIS 39 Iron wks lab
Sarah wife 40
Annie 15 tin worker
Sarah 18
Priscilla 7
Fanny 4
In the same  house but also having 3 rm sch 125
Thomas HUGHES 33 iron wrkr
Susanna wife 29
Annie 2
John 5mnth
Finally sch 127 10 Back 65 Bilston St
Mary J HUGHES 1821 France!
John HUGHES38 son Iron wkr
Mary HARRIS Gd Daur18 Tin wkr
Thomas Gd Son Born 1881
There are also 2 visitors

Now do any of these names ring bells Have we stumbled on both your Hughes and Thomas Harris were they cousins??
Trees
Hi Trees
Thanks very much for the info. Looks a good shot.

Firstly my grandfather was born at 2 Bilston Street, Millfields but can't find this Bilston Street on the A-Z, only Bilston Street names in other areas of Wolverhampton/Darlaston/Wednesfield. It most likely has been redeveloped but will be checking this out at Wolverhampton archives in due course. Although the John Henry above was living at number 65 in 1891 the family may well have moved between my grandfathers birth in 1880 and 1891.

Secondly, the age looks right for John Henry who was born in 1851. The one year difference could be accounted for by age rounding up at the time the census was taken.

Thirdly, my grandfather's birth certificate shows his father (John Henry) as Ironworker.

Fourthly, although my great great gradfather (Abraham) had a daughter called Mary she would have been aged 32 in 1891 so the Mary shown above can't be great grandfathers daughter.

Lastly, John Henry's wife was Sarah Hughes so could well have been related to the other Hughes shown.

A tenuous link is that of John Henry's daughters Sarah and Fanny.  Great great granddad (Abraham) also had daughters in 1861 with the same names. There seems to be a history of naming Harris children after ancestors (three Abrahams in four generations). Very original the Harris clan.

On the question of census returns I haven't yet really been delving into this very much but will have to start very soon.  Again, thanks very much for the information.  Hope I can return the favour in due course.
Rgds
Roy



An afterthought. Thomas Hughes could be a brother of John Henry's wife Sarah.

Hi again Trees
Apologies. Didn't totally look at the information from your earlier post but having now done so it has probably answered another, previously unanswered, question.
My sister has said to me that our grandfather, Abraham Thomas, had said to her as a young girl that his mother was french but I have already disproved this as his mothers name was Sarah Hughes which I have already stated is almost certainly the same Sarah Hughes on the 1891 census. What has now taken my attention is Mary J. Hughes born 1821 in France. Could this be Sarah Hughes' mother and the french connection I would in due course have been looking for?  The age would be about right to be Sarah's mother.
The link therefore is - grandfather Abraham Thomas Harris B.1880---------father John Henry Harris B.1851---------wife Sarah Hughes B.1851--------her mother Mary J. Hughes B.1821 France
[/b]

I am assuming that the Hughes and Harris families were related by marriage.
Looks as though I will have to take a trip to France at some time in the future.
Thanks very much again for the excellent detective work.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Dartmoor on Saturday 02 February 08 12:21 GMT (UK)
Hi Bilston Friends & Neighbours!

Please let me know if you come across this MAHER family in your Bilston research:

Daniel (born 1798-1806 Ireland - died before 1871)
Mary (born 1801-1811 Ireland - died before 1871)
Henry (born about 1836 Grays Essex) Married to Ann Children Henry and Daniel
Charlotte (born about 1839 Staffordshire - died before 1851)
John (born 26th March 1842 Bilston died 1902) Married Ellen Humm 9 Children born in London
James (born about 1846 Bilston)

Ellen (born about 1761 Ireland died before 1851)
Thomas (born 1806 Ireland)

The name is pronouced Marr rather than M'her and is often written phonetically.  Variants I've found include:

MAHER, MARR, MAR, MARS, MARE, MEAR, MAYER, MAYOR, MYERS, MEIR, MEAGHER, MEIER

The labouring iron and coal workers family lived on Oxford Street, Bilston.

All help is very much appreciated!  ;)
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Trees on Saturday 02 February 08 13:09 GMT (UK)
Rode Thomas ans Mary are on the 1871 census RG 2950 fo 72 p10 with Emanuel 16 John 12 Sarah 20 Thomas 14 and William 9 Mary is British citizen b France
and 1852 HO107 2021 fo 96 p22 with Sarah 6months
I looked for a suitable marriage and came up with Thomas HUGHES m Mary ANSLOW mar qtr 1850 Wolverhampton 17 341
Looked for Mary Anslow on 41 found a servant but it says born in Stafford so I'm not sure about her
Dartmoor sorry I haven't got anyone with any of those variations  I thought my Diment/Dimont /Diment/ Dyment/Daymond/Dayman s were bad enough poor you I wish you sooo much luck with them
Trees
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: RoDe on Sunday 03 February 08 10:14 GMT (UK)
Thanks again Trees.
Another lead to follow up. Since I joined Rootschat a couple of weeks ago I have that many leads I don't know which to follow up first in the time I have available. Rootschat is providing valuable information. It has already enabled me to identify my fathers wartime regiment, Lancashire Fusiliers, all within a few days of posting a request on Rootschat, and a Regimental message board where I can post requests for further information, because other than a single coloured photo of him in uniform and very vague childhood memories I have very little knowledge of his WW2 service and it would be nice to put some flesh on the bones as it were which I am now starting to do.

I think that family history is not just about establishing a list of ancestors but also about building as much knowledge as possible making the subject come alive and much more interesting
RoDe
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Trees on Sunday 03 February 08 12:04 GMT (UK)
So right Rode first find the names then find as much as you can about them we are enjoying finding the ancestors wills you'll be surprised how many ordinary folk left wills and what they thought important to distribute One ?xgtgran left her best tea tray to one daughter and her flock mattress to a son  :). We are also looking in parish chest papers poor law etc and parish apprenticeships military records can be very usefull too we know how tall one gt gt grandfather was at 19 the colour of his eyes and even his complexion all wonderful stuff to make your tree more interesting than just a list of names and dates. Don't forget occupations and migrations why did they leave X for Y often leads to the National situation  Be warned is a hobby that just grows and grows  Its all adding flesh to the bones But first you need the skeleton Oh dear you've got me on a roll, I hope you enjoy the hunt as much as we do.
Trees
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: RoDe on Sunday 03 February 08 12:41 GMT (UK)
Here we go again.
You're right it becomes compulsive. It's started to make me look for information on Bilston generally because although I spent my first 21 years there before moving on I know so little about it's history. I take your point about wills. I know my father didn't leave one but my grandfather on my mothers side almost certainly did as he had a small builders busines up to the early sixty's so another avenue to explore. Just started my wife tracing her side of the family but still in its very early stages.
RoDe
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Trees on Sunday 03 February 08 12:57 GMT (UK)
Great you know where to get help  now enjoy the hunt
Trees
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: oldsplice on Sunday 03 February 08 15:44 GMT (UK)
My BROADBENT lot were from Bilston, and before that, Brewood. My great- grandfather William married Elizabeth HUNT (from Balsall Heath) and my great-great grandfather, Thomas married Elizabeth BODDIS.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Dartmoor on Sunday 03 February 08 19:14 GMT (UK)
I have a single sheet photocopy from Bilston Roman Catholic Church of baptismal records which has a few names on it as well as my ancestors:

ALLIGAN
DUNKIN
CONWAY
MARR
LOUGHAN
SMITH
FREDERICK
ROSE
MARREN
BROWN
HUGHES
BANNISTON
BRADLEY
TAYLOR
FOX


If any of these names are ones you're looking for I'll give you the details I have...
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Sunday 03 February 08 22:58 GMT (UK)
My BROADBENT lot were from Bilston, and before that, Brewood. My great- grandfather William married Elizabeth HUNT (from Balsall Heath) and my great-great grandfather, Thomas married Elizabeth BODDIS.

Hi Oldsplice,
 do you have (even approximate) dates of birth for your William and Thomas?   I am researching some Broadbents from Brewood at the moment.  Was it a very common name there do you know?
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: oldsplice on Monday 04 February 08 09:55 GMT (UK)
Hi Dudley,

William was born 24th February 1855 at 51 Queen Street, Bilston.

Thomas was born 1830/1831 at Brewood and married Elizabeth Boddis at St. Peter's, Wolverhampton on 1st June 1846.

Thomas's father was Samuel Broadbent, locksmith. There seem to be a few Broadbents around Bilston, Brewood and Willenhall. My grandmother (William's daughter) was born in West Brom.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: RoDe on Monday 04 February 08 13:12 GMT (UK)
Hi Dartmoor
Re your post 51. I am researching Hughes from Bilston.  Don't know whether they were RC by religion but could I have a copy please of the baptism record?
Many thanks.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Dartmoor on Monday 04 February 08 14:12 GMT (UK)
Hi RoDe,

Here it is:

Thomas BROWN
born 2nd May 1842 baptised 8th May 1842
the son of Henry BROWN and Mary (nee HUGHES)
performed by George FOX
witnessed by Joseph and Mary TAYLOR

All the best!
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: foggyjano on Monday 11 February 08 11:50 GMT (UK)
Hi

I am researching three familes from bilston..William & Lucy Thomas, Richard Cullis and Joesph Pearson, these are all connected to my tree They are all on the census in Bilston for 1871.. very interesting thread, I am going back to see if i have missed any of my families from the pages already written.

The Thomas family moved to Pendlebury as did Richard Cullis - they came during the miners strike to work in the pits in Pendlebury when the local miners were striking..around 1875/1880
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: ggrocott on Thursday 14 February 08 19:16 GMT (UK)
I am interested in Grocott and Powis who were in Bilston about 1860 - en route from the Telford area to Rugeley, Staffs.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: RoDe on Thursday 14 February 08 19:52 GMT (UK)
Hi to everyone researching families in the Bilston area. For information and for anyone interested I have discovered that there is a series of books titled 'Bilston, Bradley & Ladymoor' by Ron Davies that contains historical information and old photographs of the area.  All are available from Amazon.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: jacquelineve on Friday 15 February 08 19:00 GMT (UK)
Hello Dartmoor
 Re.Dunkin -Holy Trinity, could that possibly be Durkin?

 Have now found a little more info re my Durkins, any chance

of baptisms for Mary Durkin 1881
                        Bridget ....... 1883
Parents James + Mary Durkin(neeDurkin)

(Re.Mary 1881 possible 2nd christiam Winifred)

                  Jackie.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Dartmoor on Friday 15 February 08 20:23 GMT (UK)
Hi Jackie,

Unfortunately the scribe in the Holy Trinity parish has very bad handwriting and uses Latin versions of names!  It could well be DURKIN or any other variant of the name.   Names were often written phonetically and spelt how the scriber saw fit.  My ancestor Daniel MAHER was spelt something like Danielus MARS.  I only have the one photocopied sheet from the parish record and nothing else from the area.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Friday 15 February 08 22:18 GMT (UK)
Hello Dartmoor
 Re.Dunkin -Holy Trinity, could that possibly be Durkin?

 Have now found a little more info re my Durkins, any chance

of baptisms for Mary Durkin 1881
                        Bridget ....... 1883
Parents James + Mary Durkin(neeDurkin)

(Re.Mary 1881 possible 2nd christiam Winifred)

                  Jackie.

Hi Jackie,

can't spot your James and Mary's children straight off but I do have a William John in May 1880, parents William and Mary/Maria (nee Keegan).  Could he be a cousin perhaps?  Godparents/sponsors were Thomas Keegan and Ellen/Helen/Eleanor McEvoy.

I've come across Durkin, Durkan and Durcan spellings so far.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Friday 15 February 08 23:08 GMT (UK)
Hi Jackie,

Bridget's confirmation name was Winifred.  She was one of 64 girls confirmed at the same time as a couple of my relatives (if my notes have not got muddled up it was March 15th 1896).
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: jacquelineve on Saturday 16 February 08 10:55 GMT (UK)

 Many thanks to you both Dudley + Dartmoor.

The registers for the Catholic church at Dudley are'nt too
good either-my g.g.grans maiden name was Elligott,on two
of her childrens baptisms was written "Alcoat" +"Illicote"
but then again,an Irish accent and I believe the priest at
the time was a Cornishman,it's understandable!
    A fter nearly 8 yrs still have'nt managed to find a Durkin
relative. Mary Durkin (1881+her sister Bridget(1883) were
nieces of my g.gran.
       It's Mary who I thought may have the 2nd name
Winifred,as the only one I can find in 1891(age+birthplace
fit) is a Mary W Durkin servant Warwickshire.
    Now I've gone really wild, and looking at a marriage
in West Derby Lancs 1909-Mary Durkin+Joseph Pat.Farron.
A Wlm +Winifred Farron (mother Durkin) birth 1921 W.Derby
both same vol + page number,so I'm presuming they are
twins, my g.gran was a twin, so.......looks as though I'll have
to take another chance + let a few moths fly free.

               Jackie.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Saturday 16 February 08 11:59 GMT (UK)
Jackie,

If the name Winifred was a confirmation name, it could be the same for both even (so long as it was suitable, usually a saint's name of some sort, then there was no restriction).  Sometimes most of the confirmation group chose the same name.

I hope to get back to the ArchDiocesan archives within the next couple of months.

If you would like to PM me with the details you have, and any other family names that might be there, then I can have a look.  Details in the register would include mother's maiden name.   For 1881, the more precise dates you have the better, as the first film of the registers ends in the middle of 1881 and the second one begins.  If you include an email then I may be able to send you some images from the register.

I particularly notice the Durkans in the register as there is a possible connection with my family name of McDonough, much earlier (1839), but no real evidence yet that these were related to my McDonoughs.

Sheila
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Ivar on Monday 25 February 08 14:00 GMT (UK)
Hello all,

I'm also looking for Bilston ancestors.  Specificially the Wilcox family, who lived around what is now the Bilston Town football ground.  I've got as far back as Joseph Wilcox who was born apparently either in Capetown or the East Indies in 1794-ish, depending on what it says in the census.  Before that they vanish into history, but I am always trying hard to find a link with the Wilcox's from Kingswinford as that was where he got married.  I'm also researching other branches of families from Bilston including Stokes, Fellows and Hollyhead.  They all appeared to move in and around Bilston all through the 19th century, and tracking them down is never easy!
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Old Blue on Saturday 01 March 08 09:30 GMT (UK)
Hello all,

Another one researching Bilston ancestors. Primarily Taylor pre-1840. Also Fullwood and Lees.

OB
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Saturday 01 March 08 12:16 GMT (UK)
Hi Ivar,

I have some possible connections with Fellowes, are they likely to be the same family?  No Wilcox in my records so far.

and welcome to Old Blue too,

a few Taylor references in my records but mostly much later (1870-90).  I do have an Anne Taylor, as witness to a marriage between Mary Ann Lambert and John McDermott in 1840.  A couple of later Taylor refs (1886) seem to be connected to Lamberts as well.   I also have a direct link with a Lees family: Mary Dudley married a William Lees in 1866.

I'll add your names to my list to look out for.

Sheila
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: masha on Saturday 15 March 08 17:17 GMT (UK)
Hello Sheila
Have just been reading your posts about Bilston families.  I've been busy working on other bit of my tree, so have only just caught up with your thread.
Have you come across anyoe from the Banks family?  My Gt Gt Grandfather William Banks was born in Bilston in 1834, he was a shoemaker.  His father, William, was a coal miner born in Madely in 1805.  There were four other children, Joseph born in West Brom 1839,Richard born in Bilston       1836. Sarah born in Bilston 1847 and Samuel
William Jnr married Sarah Ann Stokes (?) and they had a daughter Sarah Ann, my Gt Grandmother.  She married Edward Davis and they lived in Oldbury where my Grandmother Miriam was born.
Would be very interested if you come across any of these.  Another name i would also be interested in is Jarvis - Thomas Jarvis married Sarah Davis, they had a son Thomas, a daughter Grace and another son

regards
Mary
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Monday 17 March 08 11:54 GMT (UK)
Hi Mary,

Sorry, can't find any Banks in my records so far but will look out for them in my archive visits.

There is a more recent Jarvis in the family but I think that she was born in Sedgley.  However, I don't know where her family came from before that.

haven't had time to check through all my census pages yet to find out if they were neighbours though.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Washy on Tuesday 25 March 08 01:00 GMT (UK)
Hi My family come from Church St Bilston, on the 1861 census John Cooper born about 1839 with parents Thomas & Elizabeth. any connection?
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: bigjon on Saturday 29 March 08 09:13 GMT (UK)
Hi Dud,
         I am a descendant of the BENNETT,S and the TENNANT,S. Some of these were born in Bilston but most were from Coseley and Sedgley.
I am planning a visit to Stafford shortly to carry out some in- depth research. My grandfather George BENNETT left Sedgley about 1895 to work in the new coal mine at Hemsworth South Yorkshire. Several mines and counties later he finished up in Mansfield Notts.
I am new to family history research, so I would appreciate any advice or guidance.
Bigjon
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Washy on Saturday 29 March 08 16:32 GMT (UK)
Hi BigJon
I also have family from Sedgley have you seen the website www.Sedgleymanor.com some good info on there.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Sunday 30 March 08 17:50 BST (UK)
Hiya Bigjon

Welcome to Rootschat

Have you seen the Wolverhampton Archive site http://www.wolverhamptonarchives.dial.pipex.com/homepage.shtml and FreeREG http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl a lot of the church records have been transcribed for Bilston and Wolverhampton.

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Sunday 30 March 08 21:01 BST (UK)
Hi Washy,

I've been away at the archives last week but not had time as yet to sort all my findings.

Hi Bigjon,
Dudley has it's own archives in Coseley and they are very helpful.  It's walking distance from Coseley station (although I haven't as yet tested that) but it does have a free car-park too if you go by car.

and for all the other Bilston Rootschatters, sorry I didn't find any Durkin/Durkins but I think I've found some Marr (Mehea) children.

Tired tonight but I'll post more later in the week when I have had time to go through all my notes.

Sheila
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Monday 31 March 08 12:22 BST (UK)
For Dartmoor,

Back at the Archives last week, in the registers for Bilston, Holy Trinity, I've found:
a marriage for Henry Marr to Ellen Watson, wit: Elizabeth Bullock, Thomas (Turnile?)  Aug 12th, 1845 (you'd need the cert for full details as they only put brief notes in the church register

baptism (3rd jan 1847) for Dinah d/o Henrici & Helena (nee Watson) born 27th Dec 1846, godparents Joannes (John) Davis, Maria (could be Maria or Mary) Morrison

baptism (29th Jan 1840) for Sharlotte Mahea d/o Danielis & Sharlotte (is that an error, or did she have more than one name, or was he married twice?) (nee LucNehean?), born 26th Jan 1840, godparents: Joannes Mehea, Jane Mehea

baptism (2nd July 1841) for Joannes Marr s/o Joannis & Margarita Marr (nee Luckman?) godp: Dennis Marr, Allis Marr, born 1st July 1841 (could this be same family or close relatives?)

Baptism (17th Apr 1842) Joannis Marr s/o Danielis & Maria Marr (nee Luignain?) born 26/3/1842, godm: Helena Smith

baptism (16/8/1844) James Marr s/o Daniel & Mary (nee LochMahen), born 8/8/1844, godp: Thomas Ryan, Alice Maher

I have some pics but quality variable, if you'd like to PM me an email address.

It certainly gives you a flavour of the variability of these (semi-latinised) registers. Translations above are mine.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Beetle on Tuesday 01 April 08 14:38 BST (UK)
Hallo Sheila

My great-grandfather brought up his family in Bilston, and I have found it difficult to gather information about them, so you can imagine how thrilled I was to come across this thread!  I live south of London, and have not yet even visited the Black Country. 

This is what I know. 

Eugene Owen SMITH (later referred to as simply Owen Smith), a Roman Catholic,  emigrated to Staffordshire from Lahard, County Cavan, Ireland at the age of 22 in 1853, so he was born in 1831.  He was appointed to the Staffordshire Police.

He married Selina NAYLOR, from Sedgley, in the Catholic chapel in Oxford Street, Bilston, on 19th January 1858, when they were both about 26 years old. 

Owen was promoted to segeant in 1861, and in that year's census was living in the Police Station, 3 Mount Pleasant Road, Bilston.  In 1871 the family is living in West Bromwich, and in 1881 they are back in Bilston,  at 5 Vine Street.  I believe in fact they were in Bilston from 1874 until at least 1882, when Owen died at home at the age of 50 from peritonitis. 

Working from the censuses, the family of Owen and Selina SMITH was:
Elizabeth Annie Smith, born 1859, dressmaker.

John Thomas Smith, born in Bilston on 3rd June 1860.  He married Ruth Williams in Sedgley on 23rd May 1881.  Iron shingler.

Eugene Samuel Smith, born 1862 in Wolverhampton.  He married Elizabeth Helen GILES in the parish church of Bilston on 5th March 1893.  The address for both of them was Mountford Lane, Bilston.  Eugene may have been known as Sam, and his occupation is given as clothier.  In the 1891 census Elizabeth is down as as boot machinist.  She died in 1899, and Eugene subsequently married Florence BROWN in Wolverhampton.

Joseph Henry SMITH, born 1864, iron shingler.

Mary Selina SMITH, born 1866.

Agnes SMITH, born 1870.

Francis Clement SMITH, my grandfather, born 28th March 1874 in Bilston.  Francis enlisted in the North Staffordshire Regiment in 1893, and served a term of 12 years as a private, seeing service in the Sudan and in India.  His occupation is given variously as confectioner, chef/baker or ship's cook.  He re-enlisted on 20th September 1914 in Valcartier, near Quebec, as a Canadian Dragoon, and was invalided out after being wounded at Ploegh Street in 1915.  He never returned to Bilston, as far as I know.  His marriage and family life was not a success, and he committed suicide in London in 1932.

I have practically no oral history of Francis Clement Smith, other than that his mother-in-law said it was "not worth taking the time to bury him".  I should be very grateful if anyone can help me fill out these bare facts.

Best wishes

Beetle.       
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Tuesday 01 April 08 14:59 BST (UK)
Hi Beetle,

I don't have any Smiths that I know of as yet in my family so won't have been deliberately collecting them but will look out for them on the images I have and add them to my list of folk to look out for.

I hope that you know that that was the first (or maybe only) moated Police Station in the country.  And it's still there.

There was an Agnes Smith confirmed with the name of Elizabeth at Holy Trinity (the catholic Church/Chapel) in 1881 which would be about right for your Agnes.

I am transcribing most of the confirmation lists for Holy Trinity at present and hope to put them up on the web if I can get some rootsweb space when it's all sorted out.

Sheila
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: RoDe on Wednesday 02 April 08 11:08 BST (UK)
Hi Beetle
I was born and lived in Bilston till my early twenties and live 35 minutes drive away. My mother and parents also lived in Mountford Lane, in the 1940's, and one of my to do items is to visit and photograph the house that she lived in, assuming of course that it is still standing.  If it's of help, I would be happy to take a photo of your ancestors house at the same time and email it to you, also a photo if you wish of Bilston Police station which is just round the corner from Mountford Lane.

Regards
Royston
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Wednesday 02 April 08 11:21 BST (UK)
Hiya Beetle

Heres Bilston Police Station http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/listed/bilston34police.htm

Also try FreeREG and Wolverhampton Archives site as they have transcribed a lot ot the parish records

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: ricoba on Wednesday 02 April 08 11:49 BST (UK)
Hi,I have a William Clarke dob c1855 born in Bilston.I think ?the one I am after was in Smith St in 1861aged 6 .Trouble is there were a few William Clarkes born around that year.Can not find a marriage for him to check fathers name.''my''William joined Kings Royal Rifle corps in 1876.
does this fit in with anyone?  thanks
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Beetle on Wednesday 02 April 08 12:42 BST (UK)
Hallo Sheila, Royston and Willow

Thank you very much for your information and tips.  I shall follow up these leads. 

What a friendly chat group this is!

Best wishes,

Beetle.   
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Dartmoor on Friday 04 April 08 14:31 BST (UK)
Thank you, Shelia, so much for finding these in the Holy Trinity Church!  It was very kind of you to look and is much appreciated.

It is difficult when the names are written in Latin with strangle phonetic spelling but looking at your discoveries I can see three of Daniel MAHER and Mary LINGUIAN's children: Charlotte (Sharlotte Mahea 1840), John (Joannis Marr 1842) and James (James Marr 1844).

There is a steady pattern of names so that keep coming up in the records.  Possibilities include: John and Henry maybe Daniel's brothers (naming his children after his siblings).  John's wife maybe Daniel Maher's wife sister (similar name). 

Curiously there is no mention of Thomas Maher who was staying with the family on the 1851 census.  He was listed as a visitor so don't know if he was related or not.

On the 1841 census Ellen was living with Daniel's family.  She was born about 1761 and so could be his mother.  She died sometime before 1851 so maybe in the Holy Trinity death records.

Just out of interest, are there any indications as to where in Ireland any of the families you've found have come from?  Doing a Goggle search I found that MAHER and variants seem to be most popular in Tipperary?  Could this be so for my family?

I haven't had much luck with Daniel's oldest son, Henry, who was possibly born/baptised in Grays Essex.  Having posted a note on the Essex board I was told there weren't any Roman Catholic churches in the Grays.  More work needed to pin him down.

It would be great to see the photos of the records.  I've sent you a PM with my e-address.  Thanks again.  It's been a fantastic help!
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Bizziebod on Saturday 05 April 08 13:43 BST (UK)
Hi, new to this site. Has anyone come across the surname LOVE in their searches around Bilston? married to a Margaret DURKIN in 1922 (Have contacted Jacquelineve about this surname).  Only found this name link last night and have trawled ancestory but to no avail.
Thanks
Sharon
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: jacquelineve on Saturday 05 April 08 16:36 BST (UK)

 Sharon
          I'm presuming you have the 1901 census info re.
Joseph Love (Margarets husband?)

Was Margaret Michaels(1876)daughter? if so,appears she
was named after his mother,if earlier census info is correct.

             Jackie.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Bizziebod on Saturday 05 April 08 16:57 BST (UK)
Hi Jackie,

Couldn't find a 'Love' on any census, will go back and trawl them now.  Yes Margaret was Michaels daughter! Thanks for that information, that gives me more to work on!!

Thanks for being so helpful

 ;D ;D
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: jacquelineve on Saturday 05 April 08 17:18 BST (UK)
Sharon

1901 Bilston Staffs
Joseph Love 1898  born Bilston

RG13/2689 folio161 page11

Jackie.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Bizziebod on Saturday 05 April 08 19:36 BST (UK)
Great stuff Jackie, Thanks once again for your help!
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: littleclaire on Monday 07 April 08 20:00 BST (UK)
Hello again

I am looking for Mary Jane Rouse b1876 ish in Bilston. I think she may be illegitimate, but not totally sure. Any help would be great (and also any other Rouses you have would be interesting)

I have her in 1891 living with Grandparents in Bilston and 1901 living with Uncle and Aunt in Hartlepool on the census

Claire
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: littleclaire on Monday 07 April 08 20:03 BST (UK)
sorry - census should read 1881 GP and 1891 Aunt and Uncle

 :-[
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Thursday 10 April 08 08:26 BST (UK)
More catholic information

Sorry, I haven't yet listed the individual records that may be of some interest but I have been concentrating on transcribing the confirmation lists for Holy Trinity Catholic Church, Bilston and have now done the available lists from 1875 to 1931.

Emphasis on available as some may be missing.  Confirmations normally took place during the (Arch)Bishop's Visitation, every 3-6 years.  Some of the lists may have gone missing as there are some big gaps and I can't quite believe that my great aunt who became a Nun, skipped her confirmation!

As soon as RootsChat web space is available again, I hope to set up a suitable site for anyone to search the lists but meantime, if you're desperate, ask here.

Candidates for confirmation were usually about 8 years upwards (generally to early teens but, if missed earlier, could be any age).

The lists give only baptismal name, family name and the name chosen for confirmation (not ALWAYS different from baptismal name but usually, so need to identify by how likely the person was to have been confirmed at that Church.

Confirmation names are useful for family history as they often account for an extra "middle" name appearing that bit later and I've come across some indiviuals who used it as an opportunity to change their name for future use.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Thursday 10 April 08 15:21 BST (UK)
another one for Dartmoor...

This time it's from the index to baptisms so not much detail but here goes:
(baptized on) 14th Nov 1858, Daniel Maher, son of Henry and Anne (nee Tunks)
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Thursday 10 April 08 17:15 BST (UK)
Jackie,

could this be one of yours?

born 7/1/1883, baptized 21/1/1883, Martin (Martinus) Durcan s/o Thomas (Thomae) and Bridget (Birgitta nee Durcan)

godparents: Peter (Petrus) Murphy, Ellen? (Helena) Murphy
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: RoDe on Sunday 13 April 08 18:06 BST (UK)
Hi all
Just read in Saturdays edition of my local paper, Express & Star, that Wolverhampton Archives which includes Bilston have put baptisms, marriages and burials online at:

www.wolverhamptonhistory.org.uk/resources/familyhistory

Hope this is useful
Regards
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: susan9681 on Sunday 13 April 08 19:59 BST (UK)
Hi my great grandad was born Bilston Joseph Cotterill 1863 he had 4 brothers, William 1860 Charles 1874 David 1876 and 1 sister Ann born 1872.
There dad Samuel was also born Bilston abt 1820 he married an Elizabeth Allchurch in Dudley 1858, her birth place is down as unknown.
Joseph was a brush maker christened St Mary Bilston 30 Aug 1863 I wondered if Id be able to find anymore. Had a good read what an interesting site
thanks Sue
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Sunday 13 April 08 20:19 BST (UK)
RoDe you are a star  ;D  ;D  ;D

Only reason it's taken me so long to respond is that I had a quick look and couldn't tear myself away.

Some of the info was on the old site but there is lots of new stuff with loads of detail.  Found additional info on a number of rellies already.

I'm very familiar with the E & S but don't get it here in Yorkshire.  My uncle used to work for them and I once had a tour of the place with a friend.  Back in the old days when they still set type...
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Sunday 13 April 08 23:55 BST (UK)
Thank you RoDe

I have just found out my GGGrandfather is buried in Merridale Cemetery from that link

Thank you!  :-*

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Trees on Monday 14 April 08 10:03 BST (UK)
My thanks too RoDe

I've just spent an hour finding many of the ancesters Great link if only other areas were so well covered   :)
Trees
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Monday 14 April 08 15:16 BST (UK)
Wheee!

Found my GGGrandparents on my mothers side and my GGGGrandparents and GGGrandparents on my fathers side

Oh happy day!

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: RoDe on Friday 18 April 08 17:23 BST (UK)
RoDe you are a star  ;D  ;D  ;D

Only reason it's taken me so long to respond is that I had a quick look and couldn't tear myself away.

Some of the info was on the old site but there is lots of new stuff with loads of detail.  Found additional info on a number of rellies already.

I'm very familiar with the E & S but don't get it here in Yorkshire.  My uncle used to work for them and I once had a tour of the place with a friend.  Back in the old days when they still set type...

Hi Dudley
Until I saw this posting I didn't realise you lived in Yorkshire.  If I can do anything in the Bilston area for you please ask.
Rgds
Royston
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Sunday 20 April 08 08:04 BST (UK)
Hi Royston,

thanks very much for the offer.  I'll bear it in mind if anything urgent comes up.  I still have relatives and friends in the area so get to visit a few times a year, including some visits.  I even did the Bilston Town trail just over a year ago, adding in some extra family addresses.  Not many of the houses are still standing, and didn't like to photo private homes wiithout permission, but found all the churches and the Tram Company offices as well as other interesting buildings.

Sheila

modified:  these apostrophes are catching, removed an excess one  :-[
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Thursday 24 April 08 08:18 BST (UK)
I have a question (or two).

Is anyone else missing young men in the Bilston area in the 1851 census?

Anyone any ideas why that should be?

I have gradually noticed that, of some otherwise very traceable families, there are now at least 4 young men missing in my (extended) family in the 1851.  Two of them married.

Were there any wars with conscription or was there anything political in particular going on that could account for this, or were they most likely just omitted while on the over-night shift at the ironworks?

I'm about to do (another) page by page search, in case it's just bad transcription.

Anyone got any other names that they would like me to look out for (i.e. apparently missing from 1851)?
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Burto on Sunday 04 May 08 22:26 BST (UK)
Hi,
My GGGrandfather, Thomas Smith was born around 1816 in Bilston, father John, according to his marriage transcript. The only suitable Thomas I can find was baptised in 1813 to John and Sarah, looking at all the baptisms online. Are these full transcripts like what you can buy on CD? I just want to make sure I've got the right one.
Many thanks.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Harli on Monday 05 May 08 17:24 BST (UK)
Hi

I have ancestors from Bilston. My 2x great grandmother was born in Bilston in 1849, her name was Sarah Cox, her mother was Catherine Cox and her siblings James, Ferdinando and Catherine.

Harli
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Sunday 11 May 08 13:37 BST (UK)
Harli,
when I've entered all my census data into my FH software I'll check for common ancestors as we have links with 3 different? Cox families in Bilston.

Jackie,
did you happen to have a Mary/Maria Durcan in Mayo in early 1851?  Could have been her married name, of course.  If so she could have been at my great-grandparents marriage, as a witness.  Found the record on the new IFHF site - not a lot of detail but it means that I now know their parish in Mayo.

Sheila
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: jacquelineve on Sunday 11 May 08 17:40 BST (UK)
Hello Sheila

 Re Mary Durcan
 Quite possible. I know she and her husband James had
their 2nd.child bapt.at R.C.Dudley in 1853-their 1st born
Ireland 1849-50
     No sign of them in Dudley in 1851,so likely they moved
to England between 1851-53.
   I've been looking at Durkin marriages on the Deesegenes
site, especially interested in those where Rinaneel-Ruchane
+Moorehall are mentioned (Ballintober)

                     Jackie.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Sunday 11 May 08 18:16 BST (UK)
Hi Jackie,

I found my great-grandparents marriage (McDonough/Oliver) in Kilconduff.  There are some baptisms there that might belong to my family too, but the site doesn't really give enough information to go on to narrow down where there are choices and, at 5 euros for each record (transcription only) looked at, it could quickly get expensive, and still need to see original sources, if possible.

Now I know where to look, I will probably need to get a film of the registers (and I'm planning my trip, of course  ;D ).

I now know that my GGparents were married in Kilconduff in February of 1851 and had their first child in Bilston at the end of December.  As at least one older child, possibly two (or more) were then born in Ireland, they obviously went back soon after but seem to have settled in Bilston by 1857.

Sheila
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Harli on Sunday 11 May 08 19:25 BST (UK)
Hi Dudley

Sarah's father was James Cox if that is any help.  I am not sure who his parents were.

Best wishes

Harli
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Tuesday 09 September 08 13:11 BST (UK)
Hi Everyone,

I'm bumping this thread for a couple of reasons.  One is that I've noticed we have a few more Bilston familes being discussed on the Staffs board recently and the other is to make an announcement (though it may be a little early).

If anyone is looking for catholic baptisms in Bilston, I have now started to enter the Holy Trinity Church baptismal index into a searchable (Access) database.  Although there are now more than 1000 entries in the database, it is only complete so far for the "A" surnames.  Bs and Cs should be completed soon, but it will be a while before I get right through the alphabet.

In the mean-time, I'm happy to check out any requests against the database and against the list of baptismal records I have already transcribed for my own research.  When completed, it should be possible to list all children baptised in a particular family, for instance.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: coffindodger on Tuesday 09 September 08 18:41 BST (UK)
Hi Dudley

Just spotted your thread.

I just have Jones from Bilston, and in particular Simeon Jones born about 1816. Havn't found him yet.

However, if you haven't already seen this site, I thought you and all the other people searching for Bilston ancestors might like to have a look.

http://www.wolverhamptonarchives.dial.pipex.com/cholera.htm

Regards

Tony
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Tuesday 09 September 08 19:05 BST (UK)
Hi Tony,

welcome to the Bilston friends and neighbours thread.

Wolverhampton Archives have a lot of resources online relevant to Bilston.  I do indeed have a relative on the cholera victims list.

If you read through the thread, lots of people have already added links to many sites of interest.

As many of my Bilston ancestors were catholics, I also have a lot of transcribed data from the Holy Trinity church registers so am happy to check for any names that anyone else is looking for.  I don't think I have your Simeon on record anywhere as as yet. 

Sheila

[modify: I am however, looking for a Charles Jones born 1812ish  Shropshire ]
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: coffindodger on Tuesday 09 September 08 19:11 BST (UK)
Hi Sheila

Many thanks. The only lead I have is that one of Simeons children was baptised in the Methodist Church, so the family migfht have dabbled in  Non Conformism.

Tony
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: RachelK on Sunday 14 September 08 15:57 BST (UK)
Hi fellow Bilston researchers.

I have quite a few names that tie in with the Bilston area, all C of E as far as I'm aware with the exception of one marriage.

Mathew Ralph and Eliza Pitt, at the Queen's St congregational chapel. Anyone have info on congregationalists in the area?

I have a lot of Beebee's from Bilston, who also came under the name Beeby. I have a rough tree back to around 1695 where Thomas and Frances Beebee were included on the reverend's list of inhabitants. Names connected (potentially) include Fereday/Ferraday, Hawkesford, Moss, Webb, Hartshorn, Goodwin, Shale.

I have an ancestor Richard Beebee born c.1808 who appears to have been transported for 7 years for stealing bacon. The site on which I found the info doesn't appear to say where he was sent though, or on which ship?
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Annie65115 on Sunday 14 September 08 22:34 BST (UK)
Hello to everyone  :)

I have a truckload of BRADBURY ancestors who were born in Bilston in the 1800's. Other names who married in include COOPER (Sedgley) and TAYLOR (Bilston).

If anyone has any links in their tree to BRADBURY from Bilston, (or indeed the Taylors or Coopers), I'd love to compare notes!

Muchas gracias :)
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Monday 15 September 08 17:55 BST (UK)
Hi again,

just back from a long weekend away, so will look through for more later but RachelK, I definitely have details on more than one Shale family from the Holy Trinity registers.

[modify:  Oops sorry, meant to suggest that you add some more details (first names and approximate dates) and I'll see what I have]
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Tuesday 16 September 08 09:45 BST (UK)
Hiya RachelK

Gonna laugh if your Shales are related to mine  ;D

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: RachelK on Tuesday 16 September 08 10:22 BST (UK)
Hmm, it seems the Shale connection is very tenuous. It was just a marriage between my ancestor Jane Beebee (born Bilston) and a Ferdinando Shale which took place in Birmingham. I couldn't find any children for them, and of course he might not have been a 'Bilston' Shale. So thankyou Sheila and Willow but any Shale's you have probably aren't in my tree. :(

On another note Willow, I have found Hartshorn sisters (Mary Ann who married Richard Beebee and Eleanor who married Martin Pitt) both families lived in Bilston. The former being my nan's gx2 grandmother and the latter my grandad's gx2 grandmother - meaning my nan and grandad were 4th cousins. Bet they never knew that!
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Trees on Tuesday 16 September 08 12:06 BST (UK)
I have posted a problem on the general board but friends on this thread may be the best to help with this tricky problem presented to me by a correspondent.

Kate HANSON died Dec qtr 1923 Pontefract district age 48 giving a birth year 1875
She was known to live in Castleford and had two sons Harry and Edwin
 Alfred HANSON married Kate SMITH June qtr 1901 Pontefract District

1901 census RG13 4304 fo 101 p62 in Castleford
Kate Smith (born ap 1873) from Willenhall Staffs.Wid is Housekeeper to Alfred Hanson also wid

Joseph SMITH m Kate ARNOLD 1897 Wolverhampton District
A Joseph SMITH dies in1898 in Wolverhampton district age 25 giving a birth of 1873

Now it gets complicated
1891 census RG12/ 2234 fo 148 p 16 Willenhall
there is a Kate S (1877) from Willenhall sister to Henry Arnold who was 30 years older!from Willenhall
And 1881 RG11  2808 fo79 p34 again Willenhall the same Henry is unmarried with a sister Sarah (1877) from Willenhall and a visitor Kate BRITTON (1875) from Redcar Yorks. he married his Houskeeper  Mary BOWDLER shortly after the census
problem 1 are Sarah (from the 1881 census) and Kate S (from the 1891 census) the same person?
problem 2 is Kate the same one who married first Joseph SMITH then  Alfred Hanson   if so why the strange date differences?
problem 4 Who was Kate Britton how does she fit in? We have found this:
RG12 3744 fo 137 p37
Joseph HARRIS 52  a fishmonger from Staffs Rushall?
Emma 52 Staffs Darlaston
9 Harris children from Yorks from 1869 on
including Kate 13
and Emma BRITTEN Daur M 25 Staffs Darlaston
Sam BRITTEN Grandson 7
It links both areas and the name BRITTEN could it give a clue why the newly widowed Kate went from Staffs to the Castleford area and remember Kate Britten from Yorkshire was visiting Henry A Arnold in 1881 so was she the Kate ARNOLD??

Henry is on my tree son of Edwin Arnold (remember Kate HANSON's sons were Harry-possibly a corruption of Henry and  Edwin is this a coincidence?)
Who was Kate ARNOLD surely not Henry's natural sister We can not find a Kate in the BMD indexes

ANY HELP or Suggestions will be VERY welcome
A very puzzled Trees  ???
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Tuesday 16 September 08 18:00 BST (UK)
Hi Trees,

tried to send this earlier but I think I must have broke RootsChat when I logged in and couldn't get back in again for ages.

I did a quick scan for Kate ARNOLD in the 1870s on FREEREG and the only two possibles that I could come up with were a Catherine in Wolverhampton 1873q2 (6b 520) and a Sarah Kate in King's Norton 1876q1 (6c 487).  Kings Norton covered a much wider area than I had imagined as I was dismissing a marriage in that district for one of my relations but eventually sent for the cert. and it was actually at a Smethwick church.

Have you checked out these two already?

And Willow,

you seem to have done some very comprehensive research on the Bilston SHALES but have you seen the marriage cert. for Joseph and Sophia yet?
I'm only asking as one of the witnesses is listed as Nahomi Johnson in the available transcriptions and I wondered if it could possibly be Nehemiah.  There are Johnson-Lowe connections too and they may also be directly connected to the Dudleys.  William's grandmother was a Mary Johnson and one of their witnesses was Obadiah whose father was Nehemiah.  It all gets so complicated.

Sheila
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Trees on Tuesday 16 September 08 18:41 BST (UK)
Hi Dudley. Yes I've checked both of those Catherine 1873 was
Catherine ARNOLD bapt 14 May 1873 St Johns Wolverhampton daur of Alice spinster Alice was daughter of George and Emma the lack of a Henry or Edwin in George's large family makes us cautious and if she is Alice's daughter the marriage certificate wouldn't show a father. To add to the confusion I have found Kate's death
I wonder if the sister Sarah/Kate was infact Henry's sister's daughter his mother d 1863 and his father was still living with Henry in 1871 and died in 1872 so didn't remarry and have a second family or move from Willenhall. As the sister was only 4 on the 1881 I doubt the place of birth would have been in question.
I'm getting more and more mystified  ???
Very grateful for everyone's help I'm sure it will be solved
Trees
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Wednesday 17 September 08 09:57 BST (UK)
Hiya Sheila

No I havent seen it but if you give me the date/church I will have a look Friday because I'm going up the archive office for a few hours. I'm going to look for the William Dudley/Elizabeth Shale one at the same time

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Wednesday 17 September 08 10:31 BST (UK)
Hi Willow,

14 April 1811 at St Peters (on W'ton Archives transcripts)

Joseph Shale to Sophia Hellington.

I should have quite a few images for you of all the baptisms at Holy Trinity, but haven't had time to sort them out yet as I was at the Diocesan Archives again last Friday re-photoing several (and trying to identify all my pictures of priests, among other things).

I have John as John Halleton, but again I will recheck images as soon as I have time.

Got to go now,
Sheila
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Wednesday 17 September 08 10:35 BST (UK)
Sorry,

forgot to mention, William and Elizabeth could well be Holy Trinity but the register at the Diocesan Archives finishes the year before.  As soon as I've indexed all the baptisms, that I need, I shall have to try to make an appointment at the church for more recent registers but I hate to ask unless well-prepared as I know most priests have several parishes to look after these days.

If you are near enough to pop in you could try asking there.

Sheila
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Friday 19 September 08 18:25 BST (UK)
Hiya Sheila

14.4.1811

Joseph Shale & Sophia Hellington

witnesses Charles Chibsey and Nahomi Johnson

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Friday 19 September 08 18:43 BST (UK)
Thanks Willow,

Even given the variations in spelling that can be found, sounds more likely to be a Naomi than our Nehemiah, doesn't it?  He should still have been alive at the time but maybe too old to be gadding off to weddings.

did they have their moving schedule confirmed yet?
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Friday 19 September 08 18:46 BST (UK)
Hiya Sheila

Either that or the person who wrote it couldnt spell. They acually signed with 'X' as did Sophia

Yep their off 31st of October and will reopen sometime in February 2009

I'm looking forward to it because I will actually get to go in the Molineux Hotel which has been closed down most of my life lol

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Friday 19 September 08 18:55 BST (UK)
Me too. 

My primary school had a back gate on Wadhams Hill (now replaced by the Ring Road).  We could see the Molyneux Hotel and it's clock from there and used to rush there to watch if we heard the dray horses from the brewery coming by at play-time.  I think they kept the drays longer than the other breweries because the hill was so steep they didn't think that lorries would make it!

Oh dear! looking at what I've just written makes me feel really old -  ;D  ;D  ;D - definitely a "when I was young" story that!
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Friday 26 September 08 12:10 BST (UK)
Lol I know what you mean I do it too  ;D

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Wednesday 01 October 08 23:23 BST (UK)
Just an update in case anyone is waiting for the Holy Trinity, Bilston baptism index information. 

I have now completed (as far as possible) all the "A"s and "B"s and started on the "C"s. 
Sorry, it's taking so long but there are a lot of them (nearly 1200 already).
 
Dates range from 1834 to 1942 but there are not many before about 1837.

Just ask if you need a lookup - when finished I should be able to search on mother's maiden name too.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: ankerdine on Thursday 02 October 08 08:04 BST (UK)
Hello Dudley Winchurch

I am seeking help regarding Sarah Ann Rhodes (b. c1847) who married John Black(Blake)more Dec qtr 1865. She came from Tipton, Bilston, Staffs. Her husband came from Brewood Stretton, Staffs. He was an unemployed carpenter. I have found 10 children for them. The first two born Wednesbury, then Walsall, then Cannock and finally my OH's grandfather born Erdington, Birmingham.

Can you find any of this family around the mid 1800s please?

Thanks.

Judy
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Thursday 02 October 08 08:12 BST (UK)
Sorry Judy,

the only Blakemore  (or similar) child, listed at the Bilston Catholic church, is the son of Joseph and wife, Ann Morris and baptised in 1860.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: ankerdine on Thursday 02 October 08 08:49 BST (UK)
Hello again

So sorry to have put you to some trouble but I completely missed the fact that you were involved in recording CATHOLIC data. Please forgive me and I wish you well with your task. I wish I could find someone like you who does the same in SW Scotland where my gtx2 grandparents were married according to the Rituals of the Catholic Church.

Bye Judy
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Thursday 02 October 08 08:59 BST (UK)
No problem Judy,

Once it's in the Access database, it's very quick to check.

I think most of the CofE and other NonConformist data for Bilston is now available through the Wolverhampton Archives on-line web-pages.

http://www.wolverhamptonhistory.org.uk/resources/familyhistory
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: RachelK on Monday 13 October 08 15:00 BST (UK)
Hi again Sheila,

Just found out I have some Roman Catholic ancestors. My gx3 grandfather Joseph Higgs born Trysull, married Mary Ann Law born Sedgley. They married at St Peter's but were RC, their children (or some of them) baptised at Sedgley's RC chapel, which was founded on Mary Ann's ancestors property at Sandwell fields.

Just wondered if you've found any Higgs or Law names in your records? The Higgs later moved into the W-ton area (although not Bilston) but thought you might have some relevant info. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Monday 13 October 08 15:31 BST (UK)
Sorry, no Higgs as yet and only one Law and that's 1906

Laurence Law son of John Thomas Law and Susanna Lambert, born 5th May and baptized 8th June.

... but I've not had much time to work on the index recently so still working on the "C" entries so there could be more.

[only other one who turns up as a "Law" on one baptism record is actually the Mary Lowe who married Joseph Shale]
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: gjdm on Friday 24 October 08 09:47 BST (UK)
After researching my family tree, I have found that I have quite a number of relatives from Bilston. I am interested in TOWN/S, HARTHILL, and HARTSHORN.
TIA.  :)
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Saturday 08 November 08 21:21 GMT (UK)
Returning to the original theme, I am now going to have a go at putting together information from various different sources to describe a group of Bilston "friends and neighbours".

[modify: I'm going to start a new thread with this one, so it doesn't get missed, and will try to cross-link them]
[link here (hopefully): http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,340327.0.html]

Going through some census sheets that I had printed out a while ago, today, I found an example from 1871 in Temple St, #2 court at RG10:2950:F150

On the first page of the folio (page 29) we start with:

House #1: James & Mary McKew and family - from William's baptism, I find mother was a Mary Halligan and his godmother was a Catherine McDonough (likely the first wife of Michael McDonough who appears later, as she was originally a Catherine McKew)

#2 James and Mary Oakley with family and lodgers (a tiny grand-daughter's name appears to have been amended because her parents weren't married)

#3 William Brannon, wife Mary and 3 children & William's brother. From the Holy Trinity baptismal index, I can see that William was baptised in Bilston and his mother's maiden name was Walsh.  There are two sets of lodgers in the same household, a widower and daughter named Gaven and Edward Walsh and son, also Edward.  The older Edward seems to be still married but wife not at home.

#4 John and Ellen Nayley? with child Hannah and widowed stepmother Hannah Durkin

#5 Stephen and Honora Coughlin and children

#6 Barney and Sarah Callaghan and lodger George Bucknall

#7 Michael and Winifred McDonough with Mary and Julia.  Mary's mother was Catherine McKew.  Some time after Catherine's death, Michael remarried to widow Winifred Biggins, whose maiden name was Lally.  Winifred is Julia's mother.
With them are lodgers John Murphy and Mary with daughter Bridget.  According to FREEBMD a John Murphy may have married a Mary Clynes in this region in 1867. [this McDonough family is strongly suspected to closely related to my ancestors and there is a John Clynes who is godparent to one of the children in my family]

#8 Thomas and Ann Evans and two children

Court #2 seems to be between houses 50 and 51 on Temple Street itself and at 51 and 52 are more Halligan and Lally families.

It will be quite a while, but I suspect that there will be even more information on these families when the transcription of the baptismal index is complete.

Many of these names have come up in our discussions so I would love comments and feedback - particularly from descendants of these families.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours
Post by: gjdm on Saturday 08 November 08 22:11 GMT (UK)
Another list of names ...

Mary Ann Chillington - 1867
John McNully/MCNulty/McNolty? - 1868m 1889
Eliza Joyce - 1868
William Jones - 1870
John O'Brien - 1870
Bridget Taylor - 1870
Benjamin Shale - 1871, 1888
John Clarke - 1872
Mary Clynes - 1874
Matthew Ward - 1876
Francis Scally - 1877
Jane Clynes - 1877
Joseph Wright - 1880, 1881
Frances Wright - 1880
John Farrell - 1881
Johanna/Jane? Jones - 1881
Joseph and Elizabeth Corkindale - 1883 (related to Williams family?)
John Kelly - 1887
Thomas Hartill - 1887
Maria Parmer - 1887

Remember:
that dates are when they became godparents
first names are translated from Latin in many cases
family names also seem to have very variable spelling in that register

There are still more names and the ones I've listed here are just godparents to my family.  I also have records of baptisms of children of some of these people and some marriage details, so a lot more names too.  So do get in touch if your family were in Bilston at around that time (any time 19th or early 20th Centuries)

You have a Thomas Hartill listed here - I have a thomas Hartill in my family - born 1844 in Bilston.
Jo
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Saturday 08 November 08 22:33 GMT (UK)
Hi Jo,

all the information that I have is that a Thomas Hartill was godfather to Rosanna Mary Markesky, daughter of Alexander and Agnes (McDonough) at Holy Trinity Church in 1887.  The godmother was Maria (or Mary) Parmer.

If you have a connection with this family I'd love to swap notes.

Sheila
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: gjdm on Saturday 08 November 08 22:37 GMT (UK)
I have not come across across anything yet. Thomas Hartill was brother to Ann Towns (nee Hartill), my gg grandmother. Will let you know if I come across anything.

Jo
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Saturday 08 November 08 23:14 GMT (UK)
Hi Jo,

is the Mary Hartill who married William Blunt related to you?  They had children in the 1890s?
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: gjdm on Saturday 08 November 08 23:27 GMT (UK)
No, I dont think so. Ann did have a sister Mary Hartill, but she married a Joseph Unwin of Derbyshire, and they moved to Sheffield.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Monday 10 November 08 10:02 GMT (UK)
Hi again Jo,

not sure which Mary Hartill this is then, but just found one, aged 34? (not very clear) in 1891, working as a barmaid at the Golden Cup, 53 High Street, Bilston with my great-great-uncle William Dudley and his second wife (probably Elizabeth Vincent Shale).
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: gjdm on Tuesday 11 November 08 22:51 GMT (UK)
Hi Sheila,
This must be another Mary Hartill as 'my' Mary Hartill was already married and living in Sheffield in 1891, aged 37.
Jo
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Thursday 13 November 08 12:50 GMT (UK)
Hmm

Did you know that Bilston had over 100 pubs at one time? most of them have vanished now including the Golden Cups

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Thursday 13 November 08 18:25 GMT (UK)
Hi Willow,

I knew the Golden Cup had gone, as I went looking for it.  I asked at the bar in the Greyhound and Punchbowl but the staff were too young to remember it but one of the customers did and pointed out where it had stood (approximately opposite).

When you think that there used to be a yard with at least half a dozen houses behind every couple of buildings on all the main streets, it's no wonder that they need fewer pubs these days.  The population must have shrunk a lot and without the heavy industrial work it's not so good to be drinking so much beer.

I am amused that several of the family were involved, at least part time, in the pub business.  Occupation Engineer/Publican seems pretty good to me.

My dad must have inherited something of it as he made home-made wines as a hobby (plum, gooseberry, etc), and also home-brewed ginger-beer when we were little.

Sheila
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Friday 14 November 08 10:45 GMT (UK)
Hiya Sheila

Yes the Golden Cups was where the Lidl is now. I worked in the Swan up the road at the time and when they were knocking everything down we didn't know if that would go too

These are from an 1830's directory - the ones in red are still there (no doubt someone will tell me if I'm wrong on any)

INNS
Fox - James Gilbert, Church Street; King's Arms ( Commercial & Excise Office ) - John Tomkys, Church Street

TAVERNS & PUBLIC HOUSES
Acorn - George Edwards, Pinfold St. ; Admiral Nelson - Benj. Butler, Ettingshall Lane; Anchor - Benjamin Collins, Deepfield; Angel - John Bowen, Hall Street;; Balloon - Benjamin Willetts, High Street; Barley Mow - Richard Hickin, Mill Street; Big Coal - John Lawley, Pinfold Street; Black Horse - Joseph Blewitt, Brierley ; Black Horse - Ezekiel Morris, High St ; Blue Bell - Jas. Atherton, Wolverhampton Street ; Blue Boar - Jas.Hateley Francis, Oxford Road; Boat - Isaac Hill, Deepfield; Boot & Slipper - John Bennett, Lady Moor; Britannia - Isaac White, Hall Green; Brown Lion - George Perry, Oxford Road; Bull & Mouth - Geo. Adderley, High Street; Bull's Head - Phineas Bullock, High Street; Bull's Head - Ths. Carter, Catchem's Corner; Bull's Head - John Smith, Church St; Bull's Head - Benjamin Webb, Deepfield; Bush - John Jeavon, Bradley; Cape of Good Hope - (.....) Hartshorne, Wolverhampton Street, ; Castle - Samuel Spencer, Church Street; Coach & Horses - (.....) Preston, Coseley Row; Cock - William Tompkys, Church Street; Crown - Thomas Fowler, Bridge Street; Crown - Edward Hand, Hall Green; Crown & Anchor - John Hall, Coseley Row; Duke of Wellington- Richard Evans, Ettingshall Lane; Four Horse Shoes - Mary Harper, Broad Lane; George - Thomas Massey, Stafford Street; George & Dragon - Letitia Adderley, Broad Lane; George & Dragon - Edward Wootton, Hall Green; Golden Cup - John Tomkinson, High Street; Golden Lion - Wm. Howes, Church Street; Green Dragon - Cleman Hackwood, High Street; Greyhound - Robert Reeve, High Street (Greyhound & Punchbowl?);  Hand & Bottle - Obadiah Johnson, Wolverhampton St; Hand & Keys - Jas. Foster , Wolverhampton Street; Hop Pole - Richard Chambers, Hall Street; Hope & Anchor - Thos. Walton, Duck Lane; Horse &.Jockey - Sml. Holloway, Church Street; King's Head - Joseph Shale, Field Lane; Lamb & Flag - Wm. Banks, Shropshire Row; Leopard - John Fellows, Church Street; Malt Shovel - Wm. Brown, Oxford Road; Malt Shovel - Susanh. Holford, Church Street; Mermaid - Richard Hall, Shropshire Row; Nag's Head - John Hickman, Wolverhampton Street; Noah's Ark - Thomas Lea, Wolverhampton Street; Old Bird-in-Hand - Wm. Nagington, High Street; Old Bush - Job Hickman, Wolverhampton St; Old Crown - Joseph Maybury, Crown St; Old Rose - Sarah Banks, Church St; Recruiting Serjeant - Jos. Hartill, High Street; Red Cow - Edward Evans, Bridge St; Red Lion - Edward Smith, Daisy Bank; Rising Sun - John Thompson, Deepfield; Roe Buck - James Nash, Bridge St; Rolling Mill - Edward Jones, Ettingshall; Rose & Crown - Joshua Granger, Field Lane; Royal Oak - Jas. Clapperton, Shropshire Row;Sampson & Lion - Jos. Hateley, Green Croft  Seven Stars - Thos. Busst, High Street (now a baby shop); Shakespeare - John Shayshut, Market Street; Ship & Rainbow - Emnl. Jennings, Oxford Road; Sir John Moore - Ann Baker, High Street; [Spread Eagle - Wm. Taylor, Lichfield Street ; Swan - John Lloyd, Swan Bank (Swan Bank Tavern - locally called 'The Stump'); Turk's Head - Thos. Nagington, High Street ; Union Mill - Wm. Russell, Catchem's Corner ; Vine - Timothy Brooks, Market Street; Wagon & Horses - Jos.Fletcher , Broad Lane; Wagon & Horses - James Walters, Oxford Road , New town; Waterloo - John Cox, Ettingshall; Waterloo - Elizth. Fellows, Oxford Road, New town; Wellington - Jno. Hopkin, High Street; Wheat Sheaf - Benj. Huck, Oxford Road, New town; White Horse - Thos. Cardall, High Street; White Lion - Frances Selman, Mill Street

You would have been very drunk on a pub crawl!

The Old White Rose in Lichfield Street would have been there in 1830's because its a coaching inn dating from the 1700's but maybe it was called something else then

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Sunday 16 November 08 19:48 GMT (UK)
Willow,

thanks for the list but surely there are more pubs than that in Bilston now, or have they all changed names/ been replaced by new ones?

I can see Obadiah (Johnson) who I think is related but can't yet prove it.  Also Phineas Bullock, but in 1830 that may not be the one that I am very indirectly related to (but perhaps a relative of his).  And is that Joseph Shale the father of Elizabeth V. or another one?

I also had relatives living at the Noah's Ark at one time.  And others, much later, at the Hop Pole.

I wonder if the licencing authority keep lists of the licencees, according to establishment, or maybe the pubs themselves.  That would be a fun way to do the family history research.   :)  :o  ;)

Sheila
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: painterlady on Sunday 16 November 08 20:45 GMT (UK)
I have only one set of people from Bilston and doubt some of that as the children seem to be said to be have born wherever they were currently living, mostly Walsall. The fairly sure thing is Richard Jones christened 15 Aug 1813 to John and Mary (IGI) married to Jane Perry or Perry from Shrewsbury in Rushall 1836. I would love to know more about Richard's parents and her (but they probably didn't meet in Bilston) . This has been a fascinating series of posts and growing all the time, what a great idea.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Sunday 16 November 08 23:11 GMT (UK)
HIya Sheila

Yes theres a lot more in Bilston now but they are later than that 1860s list

Joseph was keeping 'The Old Brown Jug' in 1861 in Bilston so yes it probably was him in 1860 keeping the 'Kings Head'

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: mandychap on Friday 05 December 08 23:06 GMT (UK)
I have a rhoda harthill in my family tree, she married robert williams in 1854. they married in Sedlgey Parish Church. She later married John Newbrook. I think Rhodas father was called Thomas. Rhoda was living at 1 Broadlanes Coseley. She died aged 81 she was then livng with my Grandfather Robert Williams and his wife Margaret.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: woody123 on Saturday 06 December 08 18:51 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Alot of my Wood ancestors come from the Bilston area and they later moved onto Wordsley & Rowley Regis.

I'll just name a few.

Littleton Wood (b.bilston) married Mary Ann Bennett (b.bilston) in 1834, they later moved to Dudley.

John Wood (b.bilston/coseley) married Elizabeth Page (widow) in 1809(b.bilston/coseley) and they married in Bilston.

John Wood married Ann Evans (both born in Bilston) in 1824 in Harborne but they were Butcher & Shopkeeper.

many others of my Wood family were miners, boatman & carpenters.

Let me know if anything sounds familiar.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: juliem27 on Wednesday 10 December 08 13:25 GMT (UK)
Hi,

I am new to the message boards today ! And seeing as you have a brilliant Bilston thread already going, thought I would like to join in please !

I am trying to find out some information on an Alfred Edwards, who was a " licensed publican / victualler " and resided at 14, Bilston Street, Sedgley in 1901. He is on the 1901 census, married to a Isabella Edwards ( nee Cooper ) and they had 2 children, Isabella and Florrie at that time.

If anybody could tell me how to find out more information on the pub / pubs in the local area in 1901 and how I could maybe access publicans details, I would be most grateful. I don't know the area well but live In Tamworth so distance isn't a problem.

Many Thanks.

Julie
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Trees on Wednesday 10 December 08 13:45 GMT (UK)
Welcome to rootschat Julie,
On the last page Willow has a long list of pubs in the area if you click on her name you will be able to send her a personal message asking if she can identify the pub from the address you have.
Pubs can be very interesting The record Office may be able to find the licence application for your ancestor among the quarter sessions papers that will tell you how long they were there and could name the pub too.
Have you tried historical directories http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/

If they aren't in any on line directories again you may find more at the Dudley RO

You should have fun it sounds a nice project.
I have about 50 pubs on my tree and have enjoyed trying to find out about them Good luck let me know if I can help
Trees
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Trees on Wednesday 10 December 08 14:00 GMT (UK)
Just had a quick look at the old directories a Thomas Thmopson was at the BULLS Head in Bilston Street in 1896 so I'd try  to find out if Thos Thompson was followed by your relation at that pub I can see there was also a Charles Jones a beer retailer in Bilston St I wonder how long the street was?
Trees
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: juliem27 on Wednesday 10 December 08 18:47 GMT (UK)
Hi Trees,

Thankyou very much for your help. You have given me some good links and I will watch out for Willow / send her a message. Does she currently work in a pub in Bilston ? She seems to have a very good knowledge of the local pubs and their history !
I did read a post she had written, saying that at one time there were over 100 pubs in Bilston, so it was big business !

Their address on the 1901 census was 14, Bilston Street, and his profession was listed as a publican but my husband seems to think they were not living on the pub premises as the pub was not mentioned on the census.

I am new to researching so am not quite sure how to go about things / who to contact, so the links / info you gave me will be very helpful.

Many Thanks.

Julie
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Trees on Wednesday 10 December 08 19:11 GMT (UK)
Hi Julie you are bound to get a lot of help here on rootschat have a good look around.
Many of my publicans don't give the pub as their main occupation and they are often not named on the census. Most of the publicans had a second trade coal dealer, shoe maker,  blacksmith etc if they had trained in that trade that was seen as most important to record on the census.  May early Pubs were converted front rooms of cottages and houses but I don't think this would apply in 1901 in an industrial area  If they stay at the pub for any length of time eventually they turn up in a named premises then you can use the position on previous censuses to see if they have moved or were in the same "house"all the time  I think your best bet is to try to find the recognizance of the licence at the local RO I think it will be DUDLEY but may just be Litchfield its worth e mailing both to ask where the quarter sessions with licence applications can be seen In 1901 the Pub is almost bound to be named on the license unlike earlier ones.
Don't overlook the Directories they can be very helpful.
Trees
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Wednesday 10 December 08 20:11 GMT (UK)
Hiya Julie

Welcome to Rootschat!

The Bulls Head is number 29 Bilston Road Sedgley and its still there. Bilston Road is a very long street the Beacon Hotel is number 129 (home of Sarah Hughes Dark Ruby Mild - very yummy and you fall over quickly!) There is also the White Lion further down and also the White Horse. I think your husband is right and they weren't living at the pub at the time but there are new buildings on the other side of the road from the Bulls Head where number 14 might have been (I'm not sure of the numbering) so there may have been a pub there. I will keep my eyes open

It might be worth contacting Sedgley Local History Society to see if they can help http://www.sedgleylocalhistory.org.uk/na/News.html

And yes I do work in a pub but its in Wolverhampton but I live in Bilston (and have worked in pubs here too)  ;)

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Trees on Wednesday 10 December 08 21:31 GMT (UK)
Thanks Willow
Knew you'd come to the rescue its just amasing any of the publicans made a living there were so many in close proximity
cheers Trees
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Wednesday 10 December 08 21:54 GMT (UK)
Hiya Trees

Maybe thats why they all had second jobs lol. One of my relatives kept the Travellers Rest in Clearwell Gloucestershire for over 10 years but on the registry entries of his childrens marriages hes listed as a farmer

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: juliem27 on Wednesday 10 December 08 22:24 GMT (UK)
Hi Willow,

Many thanks for that.

An email has been sent to Sedgley Historical Society lol !

I hope they can help me.

I definetely have the " geneaology bug " lol as have been rather " obsessed " with it this week lol

Thanks again anyway.

Regards,

Julie
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Wednesday 10 December 08 22:29 GMT (UK)
No problem Julie glad to help

If you do make it over to Sedgley do try the Ruby ale - but let the other half drive!  ;)

PS theres no cure for the geneology bug - your infected for life lol

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: woody123 on Thursday 11 December 08 21:11 GMT (UK)
Hiya Julie

Welcome to Rootschat!

The Bulls Head is number 29 Bilston Road Sedgley and its still there. Bilston Road is a very long street the Beacon Hotel is number 129 (home of Sarah Hughes Dark Ruby Mild - very yummy and you fall over quickly!) There is also the White Lion further down and also the White Horse. I think your husband is right and they weren't living at the pub at the time but there are new buildings on the other side of the road from the Bulls Head where number 14 might have been (I'm not sure of the numbering) so there may have been a pub there. I will keep my eyes open

It might be worth contacting Sedgley Local History Society to see if they can help http://www.sedgleylocalhistory.org.uk/na/News.html

And yes I do work in a pub but its in Wolverhampton but I live in Bilston (and have worked in pubs here too)  ;)

Willow x

Hi Willow,

I just wanted to let you know that in the 1861 census Richard Wood was living at 1 Bilston Street at The Bulls Head  with his wife Sarah and 2 of 3 children.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Trees on Thursday 11 December 08 21:53 GMT (UK)
Thats's interesting Woody Now I have a connection with the Black Bull in Kidlington now that pub was demolished and relocated on the other side in 1870s  and another of my pubs..this time in Coventry appeared to move but what had happened was for some reason the buildings were renumbered in the Road Now has something similarhappened here what date is your list Willow? was it after 1851 when Woody finds the Bulls Head at no. 1? Does the history Society have any information about re numbering of the road or of a relocation of a pub?
Interesting problem
Trees
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Friday 12 December 08 11:26 GMT (UK)
Hiya Trees and Woody

I got the number from present day information so its always possible they have re-numbered the street sometime in the past. I wonder if they rebuilt it though

If you look on Google maps for Bilston Street number 1 would be where it joins the High Street (if the numbering is consistant) I'm pretty sure the Bulls Head is on the corner of Castle Street (next to the church - got to get your priorities straight) No doubt someone will correct me if I'm wrong - its been a few weeks since I've been up that way

The present Bulls Head is a Victorian looking building (if memory serves me right)

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: juliem27 on Friday 12 December 08 13:14 GMT (UK)
Hi Everybody,

So was there just one " Bulls Head " in Bilston in 1901 or more than 1 ?!

I haven't had an email back yet from the historical society, so may follow up with a phone call sometime. I haven't followed much up this week as have been ill with a bug  :( but have been reading up on some of the terms used in the day, etc.

I do not know how long my great grandparents were in the pub industry for and must check things with my mum again, but from what I understand they were in it for a while. Then very sadly both died within a short time of each other, and all their  (several ) children were split up and either went into orphanages or went to stay with relatives. So their lives changed dramatically  :'( I was looking up the local orphanages the other day but had trouble finding any that were around locally at that time.

Anyway, I will follow this thread with great interest !

Cheers ( lol ) !!!

Julie
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Friday 12 December 08 14:26 GMT (UK)
Hiya Julie

Are we looking for the Bulls Head Bilston or the Bulls Head Sedgeley? cuz yes theres more than one

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: juliem27 on Saturday 13 December 08 23:29 GMT (UK)
Hi Willow,

As they were down on the 1901 census as living at 14, Bilston Street, Sedgley - I can only presume it was the Bulls Head in Sedgley that they ran. I do not know the area well but know that there's not much in it sometimes between places, distance wise.

I really need to do some phoning around soon etc and try to find out for sure if I can which pub they ran.

I'm hoping when the 1911 census is released it may provide me with some more substantial information.

Many Thanks again.

Julie
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: juliem27 on Sunday 14 December 08 14:12 GMT (UK)
Hiya,

Does anybody know when the 1911 census is being released next year ?!

Cheers,

Julie x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Trees on Sunday 14 December 08 16:50 GMT (UK)
This site will keep you updated with news of the 1911 census
http://www.findmypast.com/1911census.jsp

trees
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: juliem27 on Sunday 14 December 08 23:54 GMT (UK)
Many thanks Trees.

Julie
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: bilstonboy on Monday 15 December 08 19:22 GMT (UK)
Just done a quick trawl through the first set of images I have from Holy Trinity register and found a few records wth names that have been mentioned here.  If they belong to any of you then let me know and I can transcribe them properly.

December 1841, Daniel Caddick s/o John and Mary(Maria) Manney, godmother Ellen (Helena) Caddick

March 1843 John Nicholls (or could be Nicholds) godfather to David Barwick s/o Patrick and Margaret (Reigney)

Aug 1851, Denis Durkan witness to marrige of Ambrose Cummins and Mary Ann Regan

June 1839 John Durkan s/o Patrick & Bridget (McDonney)

Dec 1846, John Durkin godfather to Catherine McDonough d/o Richard & Bridget (Fagan)

Oct 1852, Patrick Durkin, godfather to Mary Fahi d/o John & Mary (or Maria) (Kelly)

The handwriting is not good and some of the pages badly faded so apologies in advance for inaccuracies.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: bilstonboy on Monday 15 December 08 19:46 GMT (UK)
Hi Dudley.  I was interested to see that you are searching holy trinity RC church  baptismal records (At Bilston or St Chads Bham?)  I was born in Oxford st near the church in 1935, now retired in Anglesey. Have been trying for some time to locate my Paternal grand father who I was told when I was small was Irish. Both my parents died when I was young and none of the remaining aunts etc on my mothers (Harrison) side would talk about it.  Seemed strange as my surname, Herrington is not very Irish (though Harrington is)  Mystery partially solved when I got copies of my fathers birth cert.--Thomas Herrington b 11.09.1903 mother Caroline Herrington---no father named!!  Exactly the same with his older brotherJohn b. 22.03.1897. and his younger sister Kathleenb. 29.06.1909 So that why the Harrisons wouldnt tell me anything!! I wonder if you spot anything in the Church record as to fathers name (or godparents) you could let me know. I had been planning to do a search myself but only return to the Midlands occasionally
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Tuesday 16 December 08 23:34 GMT (UK)
Hi Bilstonboy

I am reading the registers (on film) at St Chad's and will look out for your Herringtons. 

At present, I am trying to transcribe the index of baptisms into a searchable (Access) database but I am only up to the middle of the "C" entries so no Herrington baptisms so far.  It could be several months before I get that far as there are a lot of baptisms at that church.

There are a couple of Brooks entries in the 1870s with father John Brooks and mother Anne Herrington or Errington (spelling in these registers is very variable).  Could they be related to you?
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: judijee on Thursday 18 December 08 15:31 GMT (UK)
Hi everyone.  I'm new to rootschat, but I've been following the Bilston input with interest as my mother's family were from there.  I've managed to trace the various branches of the family back to around 1790 - surnames include Fowler, Shale, Ferrington and Johnson.  In the 1820s and 1830s my gt-gt-gt-grandfather, Thomas Fowler, was a japanner and also publican of the Old Crown in Bridge Street.  His wife's brother-in-law, Sam Holloway, had the Horse & Jockey in Church Street.  Thomas Fowler's son, William, was first at the Leopard, and then at the Castle, both Church Street.  Sometime in the 1870s my gt-gt grandmother Rebecca Fowler (née Ferrington) took over the licence of the Horse & Jockey from her second husband, Peter Nixon, and she was still there until shortly before her death in 1896.  Can anyone tell me if this is the same Horse & Jockey whose address is now Robert Wynd?  Is Robert Wynd a modern extension of Church Street?
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Thursday 18 December 08 17:10 GMT (UK)
Hiya Judijee

Welcome to Rootschat!

The Horse and Jockey is still in Church Street the one in Robert Wynd is more Sedgley than Bilston

Is this your website? http://beehive.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/default.asp?WCI=SiteHome&ID=15110&PageID=96085 or have I just found you a load of info  :D

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: judijee on Thursday 18 December 08 17:15 GMT (UK)
Hi Willow

Thanks for that info - I'm glad the old family place is still standing.  And yes, you're right, that's my genealogy website.   There's quite a lot of info there that I've collected over the past eight years or so - ever since the 'back to the past' bug bit me!

- judijee
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Friday 19 December 08 09:03 GMT (UK)
Hi Judigee and Willow,
Welcome to rootschat Judigee,

I think I see a connection there but can't quite work it all out (a few missing links perhaps).

Willow and I are possible connected by an Elizabeth Vincent Shale who married a William Dudley.  There are pub connections here too as William and Elkizabeth were living at, and managing the Golden Cup in 1891.

I think that Elizabeth parents were probably Joseph Shale and Maria (nee Lowe).

I see from your website that you have a Shale - Vincent connection much further back and wondered if that was where Elizabeth's second name came from?
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: judijee on Friday 19 December 08 11:59 GMT (UK)
Hi DudleyWinchurch

Thanks for the welcome!  I think a lot of the really old Bilston families (living in the town before the 1850s) intermarried, so there's a strong probability that Elizabeth Vincent Shale was connected to my own Shales, but by a different line of descent.   Surnames used as middle names were either given to keep a family name going, or because it was the name of a godparent - my grandfather was Thomas Nixon Fowler, his brother was Henry Howard Fowler, and one of his sisters was Elizabeth Shale Fowler.

I see you and Willow have Bilston Lowes in your ancestry.  So do I.  Hannah Lowe married William Fenn in 1794, six months after she'd given birth to their son Robert, from whom I'm descended.  I don't think it was a marriage made in heaven, because both of them had been committed to Stafford Assizes in April that year charged with bastardy (an offence in those days).

Another name you've mentioned is Obadiah Johnson.  Is he the same individual who has a rather handsome memorial in St Leonard's church (I think he was a sidesman or warden)?

- judijee






Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Friday 19 December 08 17:29 GMT (UK)
Hi Judigee,

I don't know of the memorial at St Leonard's but their were several Obadiah's in the same family.  Obadiah who married Nancy Dudley seems to have lived approx. 1781 to 1835.  Could it be him?

His son Obadiah (also spelt Obediah) was a catholic so would not expect him to hold a significant position in the CofE, although baptised at St Leonard's in 1823.

There was also a Johnson - Lowe connection, as Rhoda, daughter of Obadiah and Nancy seems to have married a William Lowe in 1841.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: judijee on Saturday 20 December 08 12:25 GMT (UK)
Hi Dudley

I can't recall the dates on Obadiah Johnson's memorial, except that he was a Victorian - no help there!  I saw it some years ago when I visited St Leonard's looking for any memorial to my Fowler family, and was especially interested because another of my Bilston lot were named Johnson.  I don't think there's any link to your Obadiah, though, because these Johnsons migrated from the Wombourne area around the 1850s.

Maybe there's a RootsChat member living in Bilston who would be kind enough to pop into St Leonard's and take a look at the details on Obadiah's memorial?  If I remember correctly, it was on the wall to the right of the altar and was made of brass with red enamel decorations.

- judijee
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Doug Lewis on Saturday 20 December 08 20:55 GMT (UK)
Hi All
I'm researching the men on the War Memorials of Bilston for my website and a future book, does anyone have a relative on the memorials who would be willing to share any information they have.

The three memorials are

http://www.wolverhamptonwarmemorials.org.uk/memorial_pages/Town/bilston_town.htm

http://www.wolverhamptonwarmemorials.org.uk/memorial_pages/Town/bradley_memorial_bilston.htm

http://www.wolverhamptonwarmemorials.org.uk/memorial_pages/Town/bilston_priestfield.htm

Regards Doug
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: judijee on Sunday 21 December 08 11:37 GMT (UK)
Hi Doug

I didn't recognise any names from my own Bilston families on the memorials.  However, I feel I must say how incredibly moving I found it to read the details of all those young men who never made it home.  Thank you for your web site.

- judijee
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: judijee on Monday 22 December 08 18:18 GMT (UK)
Hi Dudley

I have located the Obadiah Johnson memorial at St Leonard's  :) - found it on the Staffordshire Encyclopedia site under 'church memorials' (incidentally, a very interesting Bilston section).  This Obadiah died in 1864 aged 19 and had been a chorister at the church.

Hope this helps.

- judijee
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Monday 22 December 08 20:22 GMT (UK)
Thanks Judigee,
 
for taking all that trouble,

Although, that rules out both Obadiah who married Nancy Dudley and his son Obadiah (the catholic), Obadiah and Nancy had an older son Joseph who married an Emma Goodhall and seems to have had at least 10 children, including an Obadiah born about 1844.  I wonder if it was him. 

Like most of the men in the Johnson/Dudley lines that Obadiah was an Engineer (as also seems to be a family trait, Obadiah senior was both Engineer and Public House Keeper/Manager).  They lived at 113 Wolverhampton Road Street, Bilston but I don't seem to have a note yet as to which Pub that would have been.  Need to check back to Willow's notes.

Sheila

[Addendum: I probably do know the pub - the Hand and Bottle transferred from an Obadiah Johnson to a Joseph Johnson the year that Obadiah senior died]
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: juliem27 on Monday 22 December 08 23:31 GMT (UK)
Hi,

I am new to the message boards today ! And seeing as you have a brilliant Bilston thread already going, thought I would like to join in please !

I am trying to find out some information on an Alfred Edwards, who was a " licensed publican / victualler " and resided at 14, Bilston Street, Sedgley in 1901. He is on the 1901 census, married to a Isabella Edwards ( nee Cooper ) and they had 2 children, Isabella and Florrie at that time.

If anybody could tell me how to find out more information on the pub / pubs in the local area in 1901 and how I could maybe access publicans details, I would be most grateful. I don't know the area well but live In Tamworth so distance isn't a problem.

Many Thanks.

Julie


Following my enquiry above I am delighted to say I had 2 replies from a chap from Bilston local history society and it looks very probable that my great grandfather did run " The Bulls Head " pub in Sedgley in 1901. He replied :

" I have been able to confirm 14, Bilston Street, Sedgley as the [Old] Bulls Head. The building dates as a pub from c1800 to the present day. Today it is owned by a local brewery - Holden's.
There are gaps in the list of licensees around 1900 and I cannot trace Alfred Edwards, but feel fairly confident he fits the bill ".

I enquired about the street numbers and he said they have changed over the years, but the present " Bulls Head " has hardly changed in the last 60 years or so.

I have found a great picture of the pub which I must try and print off if I can so I can show my mum. I hope to go over sometime next year and will have to follow up with contacting the records office to try and find out for sure.

Thanks to all who helped ( I shall still be watching this thread lol )

Cheers,

Julie.


 
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Trees on Tuesday 23 December 08 09:06 GMT (UK)
Thats good news julie now try to find the licence application in the RO You should be able to follow them through then and know the period  they held the licence for the pub. Also ask if the RO has any other records of the pub and if you have time look for News paper items about the pub even ads will tell you what sort of house it was...did it hold social meetings of any sort was if often mentioned in court cases and so on
Good luck with it keep us updated but FIRST HAPPY Christmas to everyone on the thread
(if anyone has youngish children read them my Chrismas Stories its my pressie to every one and only on the site until January  illustrated by  other Rootschatters)
Trees
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Tuesday 23 December 08 10:05 GMT (UK)
Hiya Julie

Glad they confirmed which pub it was and we had the right one

Sheila the Hand and Bottle was on Wolverhampton Street but they have knocked it down - it was gone before I moved to Bilston 20 years ago. We have just had a planning notification for new flats and houses on the site - its just waste ground at the moment.

Happy Christmas and Blessed Solstice to everyone  ;D

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Tuesday 23 December 08 21:20 GMT (UK)
Thanks Willow,

I just love these extra little bits of information.

... and a very Happy Christmas to one and all

Sheila
PS looks like there is getting to be enough of us to maybe plan a Bilston meet some time in the New Year?
 ;) :D ;D
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: jacquelineve on Saturday 27 December 08 10:20 GMT (UK)

Anyone have Summerfield+Durkin amongst their ancestors?

I'm hovering over this marr.George S +Bridget D. Dec qtr 1904 Wolverhampton.

1901 Bridget is living with her parents James+Mary in
Blackhorse Yard.

1911 (possible children)
James Wlm 1905
George 1906
Albert 1908
Joseph 1910
                       I would love to make contact with desc.-
Bridget was a niece to my g.gran(who I have just recently
discovered was "known as a violent woman"

             Jackie.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Tony55 on Tuesday 30 December 08 08:08 GMT (UK)

Sheila

[Addendum: I probably do know the pub - the Hand and Bottle transferred from an Obadiah Johnson to a Joseph Johnson the year that Obadiah senior died]

Hi Sheila,
There's a nice picture on page 36 of "Bilston,Bradley & Ladymoor" a third selection by Ron Davies from the Britain in old photographs series of the Hand & Bottle.
The book usualy costs £11.99 but at the moment Papermill on Bilston ,Church Street opposite Greggs have about 30 copies which are going for £3.00 each, if you'd like a copy i could pick one up for you.
(they also have copies from other areas such as West Brom, Great Bridge,ect from £4-£6 pounds each)
I moved to Bilston about 4 years before Willow and i can just remember walking past the pub a short while before it was demolished.
Seasons greetings,

Tony
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Tuesday 30 December 08 12:45 GMT (UK)
Hiya Tony

I'll pop down tomorrow and pick one up they are always useful

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Saturday 03 January 09 12:40 GMT (UK)
Hi Tony and Willow,

sorry,
I missed your messages while busy over Christmas.  I'd love a copy of the book but probably won't be back in Bilston until at least February now.

Is anyone up for a Rootschat Bilston meet?
Sheila
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Tony55 on Sunday 04 January 09 13:56 GMT (UK)
Hi Sheila,
  I'll just check with Willow that she hasn't picked a copy up for you and if not i'll get one for you tomorrow.

 all the best,Tony
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Sunday 04 January 09 21:28 GMT (UK)
Hiya Tony

No I didn't pick up an extra copy sorry

I'm up for a Bilston meet sometime

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Tony55 on Sunday 04 January 09 23:53 GMT (UK)
Hi Willow,
  no problem, i'll pick one up tomorrow!

  (Sheila, PM sent)

  Tony
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Tuesday 06 January 09 22:13 GMT (UK)
Has anyone else had someone's place of birth suddenly transplanted from Staffordshire to Gloucstershire?

I looked at a 1901 census page for ages, as all the other details, including job agreed with 1891, ...  and then realised that the Sandwell district enumerator had obviously misread "Bristol" for "Bilston" and so changed the county to suit.

  ???  ;D  :o  ;D
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Wednesday 07 January 09 10:06 GMT (UK)
Hiya Sheila

Theres also a Bilson near Cinderford in Gloucestershire

I've come across it a few time when I have been looking at the parish records and it always throws me for a second

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Wednesday 07 January 09 11:39 GMT (UK)
Hi Willow,

this one so clearly said that the birth-place was "Gloucestershire, Bristol" that I was about to dismiss it as a bizarre co-incidence when it occurred to me that it could have been a transcription error between the household schedule and the enumerator's book.

I couldn't image any way that the Albert Whitmore that I was looking for could suddenly think that he came from Gloucs, even allowing for the fact that he had moved a little from his previous census location.

No wonder some people are so difficult to find.  I'm still looking for his parents, John and Jane (should be in their 60s by 1901 so possibly not still around but haven't located any appropriate death registrations either) so gradually finding each of their children to see if that helps.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Wednesday 07 January 09 12:31 GMT (UK)
Hiya Sheila

Have you considered this one for Jane?

RG13/2710 Folio 115 Page 42

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Wednesday 07 January 09 13:38 GMT (UK)
Hi Willow,

found that one yesterday but doesn't quite fit. There were two the right age but wrong birthplaces.

With such a big family I would have expected to find her with one of the children, if widowed, but can't find a death for John either.

I've just remembered that I do have a contact on that line of the family too, so I'll check out as far as I can and then get back in touch with them as they may possibly be able to confirm some of the various wives' maiden names too.

[Just trying to sort out all the bits and pieces I have for this family (one of my great-grandmother's sisters).  Didn't remember to search for her when I had temporary access to the 1911 so will have to wait now  :(]
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Thursday 08 January 09 00:36 GMT (UK)
Hiya Sheila

I did wonder if it was her and she just gave her last place of residence as her birthplace

There is the death of a John Whitmore 1897 at West Bromwich aged 81 - could it be 61 mistranscribed as 81?

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Thursday 08 January 09 07:43 GMT (UK)
Hi Willow,

hope that you didn't stay up late just to find Jane.  Thanks for all the effort.

Trouble is that my records show our Jane to be in Bilston until she moved to Handsworth for the 1881 and 1891.  Although, of course, I may be missing info from the gaps between censuses.

I'm also having trouble with a daughter Lucy.  Not because I can't find one but because there are two born very close to the same time in the same district.

I probably need to try grouping other Whitmore families at this stage, to separate them out and find where the other Jane(s) and Lucy(s) came from.

There were at least 10 children so still plodding through finding each one.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Thursday 08 January 09 09:37 GMT (UK)
Hiya Sheila

I was chasing down Tippins in Gloucestershire and had a break to give my brain a rest and funnily enough one married a man from Bilton  ;D

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: nickbris on Saturday 10 January 09 10:26 GMT (UK)
Dudley Whitchurch,Have you come across any Nokes family in Bilston?  My great great Grandfather was a printer in Church St till his death 1873 That was Francis Nokes,He had a son also called Francis Nokes  Postmaster of Bilston in Church St.

2 Daughters  Harriett Nokes B 1830  Sarah about 1837  They became Anglican Nuns and ran Female Penitentiaries in Kent.I do have lots of other info if you would like to share.

At the moment I am trying to find out if Francis Sr left a will.Also as the started up a newspaper called Bilston Herald whether they were important enough to have left any photographs.ß
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Saturday 10 January 09 15:18 GMT (UK)
Hi Nick,

the only Nokes that I've come across in Bilston so far is a george Nokes who married Mary Jane Thomas in 1881 at the catholic church so sounds unlikely to be your family, I'm afraid.

I'll look out for any more in my searches.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Saturday 10 January 09 15:29 GMT (UK)
Hi again Willow,

I keep coming back to that Jane in my searches and she does seem to be only about a mile away from her previous home so, ignoring the birthplace that was presumably provided by the householder who was a bit busy at the time  ;D, it's very plausible.

Just can't fathom out why she should suddenly become a monthly nurse in her 60s, although with 10 children and probably at least twice that many grandchildren, she must have had lots of experience with small babies. [added: most of her own children seemed to have moved to Smethwick since the last census]

I'd be more convinced if I could find a relationship between the families concerned but I'm not having much luck wotking out the Allen family with hubby away.  Maybe another one that needs some 1911 census data to work out.

Another interesting snippet about this family is that, if I've got all the matches right, there seem to be three consecutive children who (on different dates) married 3 siblings from another family (called Maull).  I've come across two X two before but, is this a record?

S.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Sunday 11 January 09 18:00 GMT (UK)
Hiya Sheila

I think its a good chance its her - maybe she was one of those women who everyone called on when someone was sick and she took it up as a profession when her husband died. Also maybe she wasnt one of those women who could sit around doing nothing and relying on her kids to look after her. If she lived to the 1911 census it would be interesting to see what she is doing

You have beaten me on the siblings marrying siblings though - most I have managed so far is two x two  :)

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Doug Lewis on Tuesday 13 January 09 20:13 GMT (UK)
Hi All
Through the 1911 census we have discovered that my wifes Great Granddad George Shelley was the publican of the White Lion Public House Temple Street Bilston could anyone provide me with any information on this Public House?


Regards Doug
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Wednesday 14 January 09 11:27 GMT (UK)
Hiya Doug

There is a White Rose in Temple Street which is a modern-ish building but I cant find anything on a White Lion - I will keep looking

This is a nice link regarding Sedgely Pubs http://www.sedgleylocalhistory.org.uk/ft/sedsent/iss2.html and this one has a lot of info (& pictures) of Wolverhampton http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/articles/Exhibition/exhibition.htm

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Doug Lewis on Wednesday 14 January 09 12:36 GMT (UK)
Hi Willow
I was brought up and went to school in Bilston I only live minutes away now. My first thought was the White Rose but it definitely says White Lion and as you know every other building in Bilston was a pub so I'm not sure.

Regards Doug.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Tony55 on Wednesday 14 January 09 13:56 GMT (UK)
Hi Doug, Willow,

 Walking down Temple Street from Brook Street there was :-

Brown Jug on right,
Old House at Home on left,
White Rose on left,
on the junction between Temple Street and Warwick Street on the right was Mission Hall

then you cross Warwick Street and walk down towards Chapel Street, then:-

Barrel Inn on right,
Old Brown Jug on right,
White Lion on right,
Shamrock on right.

there are pictures of the Brown Jug and the Barrel Inn on the wolverhampton resources site but not as far as i know of the White Rose,

best wishes, Tony
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Doug Lewis on Wednesday 14 January 09 17:24 GMT (UK)
Hi Tony
Thanks for your help,much appreciated.

Regards Doug.
Title: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Laser on Friday 16 January 09 07:45 GMT (UK)
Hi there,
Some of these Shales appear to be ones I have.
I also have Shales in that time in Bilston leaving wills. Perhaps I should look out legatees?
Regards
Shale
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Friday 16 January 09 09:43 GMT (UK)
Hiya Shale

Welcome to Rootschat!

Spin us some names and we will see what we can do

Willow x
Title: Black Country (Bilston)
Post by: Laser on Friday 16 January 09 19:27 GMT (UK)
Here goes a few names of neighbours and relations from Shale wills I have:
Samuel Holloway of Mount Pleasant Bilston in the County of Stafford, a Timber Dealer, and John Green of Daisey Bank, near Bilston, in the Parish of Sedgley, in the same County, Plumber and Glazier, two of the Executors  of Samuel Holloway late of Bilston. Samuel had the Horse and Jockey Inn in Church Street.

William Shale died 1855 had forty Pounds at five per cent with Josiah Longman
Stockings Farm in Parish of Codsall.

Joseph Shale victualler, died 1838 Bilston, wife Rebecca.
To grandson Joseph Hartill the Kings Head Middle Fields Lane.
To grandson Charles Hartill buildings occupied by Richard Ball William Smith and William Woodward.
To grandson John Baker dwellinghouses in Brook Street occupied by James Fellows John Allen and Elizabeth Kepwell.
To granddaughter Sarah Bayly wife of Richard dwellinghouses occupied by Thomas Williams Elisha Tranter and Stephen Morris.
To grandson Isaac Shale 3 dwellinghouses occupied by John Wheeler James Hartley and John Maddox.
To wife, 3 leasehold tenenments occupied by Edward Stanton Edward Russell
and Francis Jones.

Joseph Shale died 1847 Bilston, Blacksmith, Licensed Brewer and Retailer of Beer of Duck lane. Had seven freehold houses situate in Temple Street in Bilston aforesaid and now in the several occupations of the following mentioned Tenants namely
Richard Banks, James Edwards, Thomas Wardon, Thomas Edge, Joseph Shale, John
Winsper and Mary Banks.

William Shale died 1868 Bilston, gentleman.
To nephew Henry Fowler coalmaster of Bilston, 4 copyhold dwellinghouses built by me upon other part of Land in Bilston called Tibbetts Croft formerly in the occupation of James Maullin? William Ore, Pyner Jones and Humphrey Wellings and now of
James Maullin and others.

Rebecca Nixon died 1896 Bilston, of Horse and Jockey Inn, Church Street Bilston. Son John Fowler, daughter Sarah Johnson.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: emgee on Saturday 24 January 09 20:56 GMT (UK)
Hi nickbris

Post Office Directory of Birmingham, Staffordshire & Worcestershire, 1850
has a Francis Nokes - printer etc. in Church Street Bilston

see here
http://www.historicaldirectories.org/hd/pageviewer.asp?fn=0000aoaj.tif&dn=WVA16003tif&zoom=s
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: ponjalow on Sunday 25 January 09 21:48 GMT (UK)
Hi There, has anyone any thing on Gozzard St or Tame St Bilston please.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Sunday 25 January 09 22:05 GMT (UK)
Hiya Ponjalow

Welcome to Rootschat!

Gozzard Street and Tame Street are both still there (I lived in Gozzard Street for a while) you can find them on Google maps

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: nickbris on Friday 30 January 09 20:13 GMT (UK)
Hi EMGEE  Thanks for info about Francis Nokes.Him and his son Francis Nokes Jr started the Bilston Herald before Francis Jr became Postmaster and moved from No9 to No 13 Church St.Would there have been any photography in that period?

Harriet Nokes who became a Nun in the 60's also wrote a book of poems called The Home Wreath published by Longman and printed by Francis.Know anything about that?
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Friday 30 January 09 20:28 GMT (UK)
Nick,

there are five children baptised in the 1830s to Francis and Anne Nokes, listed on FREEREG, including Francis and Harriet.  Francis senior is listed as a printer.

Do you know if Ezra Nokes was from the same family?
He married  Selina Gulick in 1853 and their son George married Mary Jane Thomas at Holy Trinity in 1881.

Sheila
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: emgee on Friday 30 January 09 21:44 GMT (UK)
Hi Nickbris

Harriets book  was written in 1857 but is currently unavailable; see

http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_ss_b?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=the+home+wreath++by+Harriet+Nokes&x=17&y=9

You could always ask Amazon or Borders  or a specialist poetry shop order it or try Longman.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: nickbris on Saturday 31 January 09 14:39 GMT (UK)
Thanks EMGEE,The Home Wreath can be read on Google Books.Harriet became a Nun along with her sister Sarah,they ran Female Penitentiaries.After 23 years Harriet wrote a book (I have a copy) called 23 years in a house of mercy.She carried on as Lady Superior in Stone Datford where she died in 1892.I found the grave of both sisters in St Marys Church STONE Dartford.I am trying to track down any photographs of this family.Francis Nokes Sr died in 1873 and seems to have been important enough to have been included in Lawleys History of Wolverhampton.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: jacquelineve on Saturday 31 January 09 17:59 GMT (UK)
From 1911 census

15, White Horse yd

Summerfield
George         1876
Bridget         1884 (nee Durkin)
James Wlm   1905
George         1906
Albert           1908
Joseph         1910

Jackie
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: nickbris on Monday 02 February 09 18:02 GMT (UK)
Hi Sheila,I have done a good search of my Nokes family but can't find an Ezra Nokes.Harriet and Sarah were my Great Great Aunts.

Nick
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Friday 13 February 09 19:50 GMT (UK)
Hi everyone,

If anyone is looking for baptisms at Holy Trinity, family names beginning "A", "B" or "C"" are now on the database of the index (and working on the "D"s).

There are now over 2,500 names in the database and not even finished the "D"s.  I'm just hoping that it's because most of the families round there had names beginning with "C".  ;D  ;D  ;D

Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Saturday 14 February 09 11:31 GMT (UK)

  A long shot!!!

               Any Durkins?

                   Jackie.

Hi Jackie,

Do you still need these?

I'm nearing the end of the "D"s and now have pages of Durkin/Durcan/Derkin/Dirkin and possibly even more varieties.

Any families in particular or will you need all of them?
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Saturday 14 February 09 11:35 GMT (UK)
... also, not sure if this is the right place to put this but, weather permitting (and it's looking better so far), I hope to be in Bilston next Wednesday (18th Feb) for a meeting.

Anyone local fancy a Rootschat coffee-shop meet late afternoon?  If so any suggestions where would be good?  Not sure how late I can stay, as yet.
 :)
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: ponjalow on Saturday 14 February 09 14:19 GMT (UK)
How about Morrison's cafe ?
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: jacquelineve on Saturday 14 February 09 15:02 GMT (UK)
Hello Sheila

             I'd be most grateful for anything re Durkin. Thankyou very much.

           Jackie.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: dollface on Saturday 14 February 09 18:10 GMT (UK)
Hi All
MY family came from Bilston in 1870s moved to Pendlebury for work in the mines.
Names.Thomas Beddard.b.1819.d.1886
............Louisa.................b1820.d.1879.m.1841 st.Leonard's.
children Eliza.b.1841.William Eli.Louisa.Thomas.
THOMAS was born in 1819 but his name may have been Bedward.
then in 1841 on his marriage his name is BEDDOW. father Richard Beddow puddler.
Louisa maiden name was Powis. her father William Powis Miner.
I can not seem to find the connection to a Richard Bedward and Ann married 1818 .at Wolverhampton.
any help please.
thanks
Dollface
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: ponjalow on Saturday 14 February 09 20:22 GMT (UK)
Hello there,have you come across  any Duffy's  please ?
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Saturday 14 February 09 20:36 GMT (UK)
Hi ponjalow,

Morrison's sounds good as it's easy to spot and I presume they have parking.

there are lots of Duffys too.  Just two more pages to transcribe to finish the "D"s and then I'll PM you the lists as they will be quite long.

Same for Jackie.  Should get that far by tomorrow at latest.

Sorry dollface, only two BEDDOWs baptised at Holy Trinity and parents were John and Mary.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: ajglos on Saturday 14 February 09 20:48 GMT (UK)
Hi not sure if this is the right place for this query, but this thread was recommended to me for queries on pubs / Bilston:
I'm hoping someone can give me some information on the people / pubs involved in this line:
Charles Beynon and his wife Clara ran the Fighting Cocks at Blakenhall in the 1920's/30's, but I'm not sure exactly when. Apparently they hosted annual dinners for the local cricket / bowling clubs?
In census / directories Charles Beynon is also linked to "drinking establishments":
1901 census: pubkeeper at 160 Bilston st. ?
1904 Kellys directory: beer retailer at 42 Church St??

Any info linked to the people/pubs?
Thanks
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Sunday 15 February 09 10:24 GMT (UK)
Jackie and Ponjalow,

I'm about to try sending index results by PM.

a few notes:
1. with so many entries, there are bound to be some typos.  However, many of the name variants are actually in the index.

2. I have tried to copy the index faithfully (even when I know that is is wrong!), so even my family names have been reported incorrectly on occasion.

3. The index was possibly only created some time after the registers were already in existence.  First names in the registers are usually latinised, English versions in the index may have been translated back from Latin, so you need to be aware of convergences (e.g. I have a Nancy, this would be Anna in Latin and is recorded as Anne in the index).  Some names in the index are still in Latin.

4. The full registers for Holy Trinity are available on microfilm at the Birmingham Diocesan Archives up to 23/8/1908.  You need to make an appointment to see them as the archivist is only there part-time (and usually very busy).  After that the registers are not viewable directly but you can request a copy of an entry from the parish priest (probably a very busy man too).

5. As the index goes on up to the 1940s, some of the information I am sending would probably be considered still sensitive, so be careful how/where you display it.

I hope that it's useful,
Sheila
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: jacquelineve on Sunday 15 February 09 10:47 GMT (UK)
Re Durkin

     Wow! Sheila thanks so much, that lot is going to keep me happy for hours!

            Thanks+ much appreciation
           Jackie.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: gwen j on Sunday 15 February 09 11:04 GMT (UK)
I have never seen so much about Bilston before! My link is through my grandmother  Norah Lillian Delany, who was born there in the 1890's(not got my file to hand as I'm just going away for a few days and its in the car!) They were a catholic family,her father being Walter Hugh Delany who married Ann Maria Legg.Walter was the son of Patrick Delany who had a Ironmongers Shop in Church Street,Bilston.Patrick was born in Madley,Shrop in 1812.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Sunday 15 February 09 11:32 GMT (UK)
Hi Gwen J,

List of Delan(e)y baptisms at Holy Trinity on its way to you by PM.  Same advice as above.

enjoy,
Sheila
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Sunday 15 February 09 22:49 GMT (UK)
Hiya ajglos

Welcome to Rootschat!

Heres a picture of the Fighting Cocks in 1899 http://shireweb.net/wolverhamptonbak/picturesview.php?ID=125 and another one http://shireweb.net/wolverhamptonbak/picturesview.php?ID=145

I'll see what I can find on the others

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Sunday 15 February 09 23:25 GMT (UK)
Hiya

On Bilston Street there was the Garricks Head, The Blue Bell, The Crown and Cushion, Red Cow, Bulls Head and the True Briton. Heres a picture of the Garricks Head http://shireweb.net/wolverhamptonbak/picturesview.php?ID=110

Unfortunately I dont have street numbers for them yet. 42 Church Street was a drapers (which I think has since closed) I will keep looking. Tony will be able to tell us when he gets online

Also this is a link for the inhabitants of Bilston in 1695 for everyone else http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/STS/Bilston/1695.html

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: ajglos on Monday 16 February 09 12:45 GMT (UK)
Willow
Thank you for the links for pictures of The Fighting Cocks / Garricks Head.
I was probably being simplistic assuming Charles Beynon linked to 3 addresses selling beer from 1901 to approx 1930's would be easy to gain more information on - looks like Wolverhampton boasted a huge number of drinking establishments!
Curious that 42 Church st (selling beer from 1904 directory) turned out to be a draper's rather than a pub?
Many thanks
AJ
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Monday 16 February 09 12:55 GMT (UK)
Hiya AJ

Thats what it has been in recent years but it could have been a public house before that. I will have to have a look at the building

Even if your relative ran a pub it doesnt always mean that they lived on the premises so 42 could have been his home address or an off licence

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: emgee on Monday 16 February 09 21:34 GMT (UK)
Hi Sheila

Does your A to D index include marriages?
If so could you tell me names of witnesses at the marriage of Margaret Doyle and John O'Donnell Dec. Qtr 1855?

Thanks.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Monday 16 February 09 23:42 GMT (UK)
Sorry emgee,

only the baptisms were indexed, as far as I know.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: ajglos on Tuesday 17 February 09 18:05 GMT (UK)
Pubs in Wolverhampton   /  Beynon

I feel I'm closing in on the movements of Charles david Beynon and his wife Clara Lucy a little - but would love any information on the numerous drinking establishments they were connected with : (Willow has very kindly posted some replies to this)

1901 census: 160 Bilston St

1904 Kellys  : 42 Church st, Bilston

1911 census : Charles and Clara were in 1911 going by their respective middle names (David and Lucy) for some reason, but it is definitely the same people. In 1911 they are listed as publicans at "The Peel Arms", Peel Street.  ??

1921 Kelly directory at The Fighting Cocks  (not there in 1932 so do not know what happened to them after 1921).



Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Tony55 on Wednesday 18 February 09 19:51 GMT (UK)
Hi ajglos,
  My OH's great Aunt ran a hairdressers shop at no 14 Bilston Street in 1901 and that was somewhere between the ring road island and where the police station is now so i'd guess 160 was a little out of town heading towards Monmore Green, i'll see what i can find in that area.
  Sometime between 1891 and 1901 census High Street and Church Street addresses were all renumbered so it's a bit awkward to determine which establishment it is at the moment, i'll try and work out which one it is from my list.
  If you follow this link and go to the 5th picture  :)
 
  http://www.blackcountrypubs.com/OLDPUBS.htm

 Nice links to the Fighting Cocks Willow, i must have passed it hundreds of times when i lived in Pennfields but i couldn't remember what it looked like.

 
 :) Nice to put a few faces to names this afternoon and i apologise for not being able to stay very long, next time i'll make sure i have more time, it was very enjoyable to meet you all  :)

  best wishes, Tony
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: ajglos on Wednesday 18 February 09 20:09 GMT (UK)
Excellent link to old pubs with picture of Peel Arms - thank you so much for taking the trouble to pass this on.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Thursday 19 February 09 09:40 GMT (UK)
Hiya Tony

I couldnt remember what the Fighting Cocks looked like either in fact I was under the impression at it was where the Aldi is now

Nice link to the Peel Arms I've saved that one

Hope you all had a good day yesterday sorry I couldnt make it

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Friday 20 February 09 10:38 GMT (UK)
Hi Willow,

We had a great mini-meet on Wednesday.  Morrison's cafe was a good venue, easy to find and quiet at that time of day.

Just myself, RoDe, Tony55 and ponjalow, made it but it was great to meet the people behind the pseudonyms (and a few relatives too). You would have loved it as we had a great discussion on the locations of pubs in Bilston as well as other topics.  We were there about an hour but it flew by.

While on the subject, the topic for the Black Country Memories Club next meeting (in Bilston) on Wednesday the 22nd April is "Pubs and Clubs", so I hope to be back for that too.

Thanks to Tony for getting me the book that he told me about too.  I have a question relating to the book.  there is a picture in it of the old Holy Trinity School in the 1990s but a mention that it was already boarded up at the time of publication.  Does it still exist?  If not, does anyone know what happened to the named bricks?  I must try to find a list of those whose contributions were honoured in this way asit looks like one in the picture was from my family.

Got to dash out now but back later.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: tompson on Friday 20 February 09 15:27 GMT (UK)
Has anyone any info about the Barnett family - mainly from West Bromwich and Oldbury. Samuel Barnett had two bickyards in the late 19th century one called Rattle Chain and the other Stour Valley - both near the canal.  He married Lavinia Hailey (spelling differs). They had seven children - most buried in the cemetery in Dudley.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: crystal lady on Saturday 21 February 09 18:46 GMT (UK)
Quote from: DudleyWinchurch link=topic=280912.msg2375250#msg2375250 date=1234643772

Sorry dollface, only two BEDDOWs baptised at Holy Trinity and parents were John and Mary.
[quote

Hi Sheila

This may be a long shot but the above may just be my brickwall  :-\  Can you let me know what years the 2 Beddows baptisms are, please.  My OH's mother was a Beddows, born Aston, Birmingham, her father was Arthur Beddows and his marriage certificate shows his father as John Beddows but so far I have been unable to locate any info about them and as you know the ancestors turn up in the most unexpected places.

Thanks

Crystal (with fingers crossed)
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Saturday 21 February 09 20:26 GMT (UK)
Hi Crystal,

sent by PM.

Sorry tompson, I didn't find any Barnetts in the Holy Trinity baptism register or is that not what you were asking?

Welcome to RootsChat.

If it's a more general question about Barnetts in Staffordshire you'd probably get more response if you started a new thread.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Tony55 on Sunday 22 February 09 09:21 GMT (UK)
I have a question relating to the book.  there is a picture in it of the old Holy Trinity School in the 1990s but a mention that it was already boarded up at the time of publication.  Does it still exist?  If not, does anyone know what happened to the named bricks?  I must try to find a list of those whose contributions were honoured in this way asit looks like one in the picture was from my family.

Sheila, sadly the school is no longer there, it's land was cleared and now consists of new housing as does a lot of the surrounding area. Next time i'm in that area i'll try and find out which Developer built the housing as they would have been the ones who probably cleared the site, you never know, it's just possible they placed the bricks in safe keeping.

best wishes,Tony
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Sunday 22 February 09 19:22 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the information Tony,

I'll have to find out if either the Archives or the parish priest has a list somwhere of all the names.

I was just thinking that, if they had the bricks, they could sell them off again for the school funds.  Looks like that's another opportunity that may have been missed.

Sheila
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Tony55 on Thursday 12 March 09 13:12 GMT (UK)
Hi All
Through the 1911 census we have discovered that my wifes Great Granddad George Shelley was the publican of the White Lion Public House Temple Street Bilston could anyone provide me with any information on this Public House?


Regards Doug

Hi Doug......PM sent  :)

Paper Mill in Bilston currently have several copies of "Images of England-Bilston,Tettenhall and Wednesbury" usualy £12.99 but now at £8.00.

best wishes,Tony
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Midlanders on Thursday 12 March 09 14:31 GMT (UK)
Yes we had the Bilston book from Paper Mill recently. Very interesting, haven't found any of my family in there yet though. :)
Hi Tony55, noticed you have a Tranter of Birmingham in your tree. I was a Patternmaker there with a Malcome Tranter early 1950's.
Midlanders
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Tony55 on Thursday 12 March 09 18:32 GMT (UK)
Hi Midlanders,
  Welcome to Rootschat  :) I pop into Paper Mill every couple of weeks as their always changing their stock but sometimes only get a couple of books in which soon go.
 
Hi Tony55, noticed you have a Tranter of Birmingham in your tree. I was a Patternmaker there with a Malcome Tranter early 1950's.
Midlanders
As far as i'm aware all my family were in the Brass industry around the Lodge Hill and Jewelery Quarter areas, mostly wire drawers and pen knibs and fancy goods, then from just before ww2 in the car industry at Longbridge .

Best wishes,Tony
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Jumbled Jim on Monday 23 March 09 15:30 GMT (UK)
Hi,

I'm trying to push some researches in and around Bilston back to the early 1800s on one side of a family (Wellings, Winsper,  Parish/Parrish, Higgs, Boad, Bunce) and trying to get started at all on the other side (William Henry Talbot b about 1891). Two great grandfathers (Bunce and Wellings) were independently killed in accidents in a foundary in Bilston around 1890-1893. Most of the early Wellings and Bunces would appear to have been iron puddlers. Higgs was a licensed victualler. A later Wellings, Rose Wellings, became a pub landlord somewhere in the Bilston/Darlaston area.

It  is rumoured that William Henry Talbot's father was at some time a jewellery worker, again from the Bilston area.

I noted that an earlier poster had mentioned Higgs, and another, Winsper. Winsper is almost certainly related to any Winspers I have discovered since the name is apparently extremely rare, and certainly so in Bilston.

Any help would be most gratefully received since, living as I do in Scotland, visits to Bilston are extremely infrequent.

Many thanks,

JJ
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Monday 23 March 09 15:49 GMT (UK)
Hi JJ,

Have you checked out FREEREG at:
http://www.freereg.org.uk/
and Wolverhampton Archives site at:
http://www.wolverhamptonhistory.org.uk/resources/familyhistory

Don't recollect the other names at present but there were lots of Winspers in the Bilston area in the 19C and a little earlier.  It's possible that they were all related to each other.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Monday 23 March 09 19:51 GMT (UK)
Hiya JJ

Welcome to Rootschat!

Dont forget to try FreeREG http://www.freereg.org.uk/cgi/Search.pl - lots of Winspers on there

Off the 1901 census all born Bilston

5 Gozzard Street Bilston

George Talbot 45 Head m pudler in ironworks
Mary Ann 40 wife M
George Thomas 21 son labourer at blast furnace
John 16 son Painter
William 11 son
Ernest? 8 son
Beatrice 3 dau

RG13/2689 Folio 156 Page 1

Willow x


Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Jumbled Jim on Tuesday 24 March 09 08:37 GMT (UK)
Thanks DW and Willow. In fact Willow, that's amazing.....I have searched and searched for ages and not managed to find the right Talbots....I was beginning to think they might have been averse to filling in census forms or anything like, and possibly avoided the enumerator too. This is the right area, and judging by the names (which I had no idea of in this generation) likely to be correct, since many of these names were passed to the next generation. This gives me a toe-hold, thanks again!

As for the Winspers, as a Bilston name goes, I was under the impression that there were a few, but not as many as say Fellows or Hickman or a few others I could mention. They appear to have been a fairly short-lived group, although I gather there may still be one Winsper living in Bilston. Parish/Parrish also seem to be similarly short lived and relatively infrequent.

Wellings is an interesting one....after the death of the household (William) in the iron foundary accident, the wife remarried to Probert and the children took on the new surname. This caused all sorts of problems until I had worked out what had happened. At least one of the children by the first husband then reverted to the original name, Wellings, although I suspect they may all have done this....so there is a James Edward Wellings (I have this completely covered), Rose Wellings (apparently became a landlady of a pub possibly in Moxley), Albert Wellings (possibly coal and possibly served in WW1) and William Wellings who apparently moved to Shrewsbury and became a market trader....and these I have not managed to trace as yet. The Winspers, Boads, Parish/Parrish, Higgs and Bunce families are further back in the Wellings line and are fairly new discoveries. Incidentally, James Edward Wellings  went on to become Mayor of Bilston.

Any ideas how I could track down reports of William Wellings industrial accident and that of Joseph Bunce who died on 29th August 1891, although apparently the accident had happened a week or so previously? It's just conceivable that they were both mortally injured in the same "explosion". I've tried all the obvious on the internet.....but then Willow made that breakthrough where I had failed. Just goes to show that more than one working on something or taking a break and going back to a problem often results in a solution.

Thanks again.

JJ
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Tuesday 24 March 09 08:48 GMT (UK)
Hi JJ,

Not certain, but I think that the Express & Star (on film at Wolverhampton Archives) may well have been in existence before the 1890s and would most likely have reported such industrial accidents.  Having a very specific date, it should be relatively easy to look up.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Jumbled Jim on Tuesday 24 March 09 08:52 GMT (UK)
Thanks DW, is this viewable online or will it have to wait until I make one of my rare visits back to the Black Country?
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Tuesday 24 March 09 09:12 GMT (UK)
Thanks DW, is this viewable online or will it have to wait until I make one of my rare visits back to the Black Country?

Haven't seen the new facilities at the Molyneux Hotel yet (my own visits to the Black Country are relatively rare too these days) but used to be film only.

Hmmmm! Archive technology...  I wonder how practicable it would be to create a remote film reader?  I guess someone would have to load it, but one of those electronically controllable ones and a web-cam wouldn't be much more complex than the equipment already available!  ;)
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Trees on Tuesday 24 March 09 09:32 GMT (UK)
Hi do you cover as far as Brierley Hill by any chance I am looking for the history of the Waterloo Mill Street in one directory1864 it was in High Street which seems a bit strange it must be the same house as the land lord was the same Oliver LOWE. I have him there in 1851 and 1861 censuses and Slater's 1851 directory he was a journeyman maltster in Kingswinford in 1841 so must have move between censuses I am wondering if it was an older pub with a name change to honour the battle or was it new after 1815.
 I am also trying to find anything about The Kings Head in BugHole Holly hall Dudley If anyone can help
Cheers Trees still on a pub crawl  ;D
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Tuesday 24 March 09 09:34 GMT (UK)
Hiya JJ

I have looked at the Express and Star site but they say the archives are only available at the archive office (though they need to update that cuz they are still saying Snow Hill)

William wasn't too hard to find as he was the only one born Bilston in that time frame. There were two William Henry's registered in 1891 but the other one died aged 7 which was lucky otherwise we wouldn't have been sure which one it was though it would have been nice if they had put his middle name in

It would be worth getting his marriage certificate just to confirm it completly

Marriage off the Wolverhampton Archives site for his parents

Ettingshall 30 May 1882 George Talbot 25 b Puddler Ettingshall father George Talbot Puddler & Mary Ann Robinson 22 s Ettingshall father William Robinson Furnaceman Banns witnesses John & Maria Robinson

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Jumbled Jim on Tuesday 24 March 09 10:54 GMT (UK)
Thanks again to you both....I'm sure this is the family of Talbots, Willow, and thanks again for getting me past a log jam. Looks like a trip to the BC is in order sooner than I had anticipated to look at the resources in the Molyneux and at the Express and star.

PS I notice a number of posters are wondering about photographs of the Bilston area and buildings therein....have you tried www.geograph.org.uk  ...I know there are a fair number of photographs of present day Bilston on the site and I have found it useful in letting me know just how much of what I remember is still there....sad to see buildings such as Henry Newbolt's home gone (although the gargoyles at the door used to scare me rigid as a child)!
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Wednesday 25 March 09 10:22 GMT (UK)
Hiya JJ

This site is useful too for old photos http://www.francisfrith.com/bilston,west-midlands/photos/

Also have you seen this post on Rootschat regarding Winspers? (knew the name rang a bell) http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,339011.0/topicseen.html

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Jumbled Jim on Wednesday 25 March 09 12:42 GMT (UK)
Thanks Willow, I knew about the first site and have my own photographs dating back to only just a little later than the Francis Frith ones. The second link was fascinating and I'm just about to compare my Winspers with those.

I have Jemima Winsper who married Samuel Higgs in 1850 at Coseley Christchurch. I think she was born in 1827 but christened in Bilston 1st Feb 1829. Her parents were William and Sarah, and the 1841 census shows Jemima aged 14 living in Highfields, Sedgley, with mother Sarah, aged 35 (born 1806), and a whole host of siblings, but no father shown. Also present was a 50 years old James Woodall and 40 year old Ann Woodall and their one year old child Martha. So I'm wondering if something had befallen William and Sarah had moved in with her brother or sister and in law. There are a number of William Winspers and so I need to work on which one now.
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Wednesday 25 March 09 22:10 GMT (UK)
Hiya JJ

No prob its such an unusual name there must be a connection

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Monday 20 April 09 00:42 BST (UK)
Hiya Sheila

Could you have a look for a John Francis Marshall bap c1831 - 1833 father William occ locksmith on the registers please

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Monday 20 April 09 00:55 BST (UK)
Hi Willow,

I'm nowhere near getting all the "M"s done on the index yet but Holy Trinity church opened on Thursday 11th september 1834, or so it says in the registers.  Before that Bilston was served as a mission, I think, perhaps from Sedgley and their registers are almost unreadable.

I'll add him to my list to look out for but not likely to get back to the archives for another month or two, as I'm really busy with other things at present.

sorry,
Sheila
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Monday 20 April 09 09:34 BST (UK)
Hiya Sheila

No problem it was a request on behalf of someone else and a bit of a long shot as he gives his place of birth as Wolverhampton although his father was born Bilston so if you do stumble across him it will be a bonus but dont go to any trouble for it

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: HensonYoung on Thursday 30 April 09 14:38 BST (UK)
Hello there ..... Today I found your very interesting thread .......  and having read thro the postings, stopping off along the way to check out the numerouse links in the hope of finding my elusive ancestors, without any joy, I wonder if there's any chance there's someone else researching my branch of the JONES family lol phew there are so many!!!!

My g.grandfather BENJAMIN GARBETT b. 1842 Dawley Green married JANE JONES b. abt 1842 Priestfields/Bilston 21.06.1863 Parish Church, Sedgley (have the m.cert) the cert records Jane's father as JOHN JONES miner.  Jane's residence at the time of the marriage is recorded as Lanesfield.

I believe JOHN JONES married Annes Davis 3/5/1840 Wolvs (record found 'familysearch' and 'freereg') ..... JOHN JONES, his wife Ann and family -Sarah 1840 Priestfiled, Jane 1842 Priestfield (my g.grandmother) Emma 1844 Bilston, John Thomas 1847 Bilston, Elizabeth 1853 Bilston, Joseph1855 Oldbury, Richard 1860 Bilston, and William1861 I have found on the 1841C Priestfilds, 1851C Gibbets Lane, Bilston 1861C Fleece Row, Bilston ..... then nothing  :o  :o .... they all seem to have disappeared!!!!  As there are so many Jones's it is difficult to find any records of death and I sure cant afford to send for each JOHN JONES death in Wolvs after 1863! Maybe they emigrated but my sub at Ancestry doesn't include access to relevant records!  I am awaiting Jane GARBETT'S nee Jones's m death.cert to Benjamin Garbett in the hope that this will give me a clue.

So if anyone else is researching this branch of Jones's or if anyone can help me I will be truly, truly grateful.

Ever hopeful
Polly
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Thursday 30 April 09 14:42 BST (UK)
Hiya Polly

Have you tried the Wolverhampton Archives site too - it might have some clues http://www.wolverhamptonhistory.org.uk/resources/familyhistory

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: HensonYoung on Thursday 30 April 09 16:16 BST (UK)

Hi Willow .... many thanks for that - I looked at that link but didn't search thro indexes ...... and guess what thanks to your prompt I think I have found what could possibly be siblings of JOHN JONES  :D

So thanks again, something to work on now  :-*

Polly
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Thursday 30 April 09 18:32 BST (UK)
Glad to help Polly

My GGrandmother was a Jones from Bilston too so I know it can be hard work

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: N.Millward on Monday 25 May 09 16:56 BST (UK)
Hi I am trying to research family members who lived in the Moxley area (very near to Bilston) - in particular the surname Brookes.  I am sorry if this is not the way to get in touch with people - I have only just joined - but could DudleyWinchurch please let me know which Brookes he/she is researching.   My family line is the William Henry Brookes line (lived in Bull lane in 1901 onwards) and had sons by the name of William/George/Albert to name a few.

The links which people have been posting are very useful too thank you!

Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Monday 25 May 09 19:37 BST (UK)
Hi N.Millward,

welcome to RootsChat.

This thread is for discussion about the various families in the Bilston area and their interconnctions so your query is fine here although, for a wider audience, you could start a new thread with your particular family names in the heading.

My Brookes connection is my great-great-grandmother Fanny Brookes who married George Winchurch in Tipton in 1821 but, according to the censuses, she was born in Madeley or Madeley Wood in Shropshire about 1803.

Sheila
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: gwynd on Sunday 14 June 09 18:51 BST (UK)
Hi,   Hope you can help.  We are trying to find any records for my wifes gg grandfather, George Rowley, born about 1810 in Bilston, Staffs.    He married a local girl from Llansilin, Denbighshire, N. Wales, in 1832.  She died and he remarried in 1842 in Wrexham.  According to the marriage certificate his father was called John Rowley, occupation, Collier.  His year of birth is calculated from the census returns of 1851-1871 so it could be one or two years out I suppose.    Thanks in anticipation.         Gwyn
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: judijee on Monday 15 June 09 17:05 BST (UK)
Hi everyone - going back to the many and varied Jones families of Bilston, I'm descended from Ann Jones, born in/around 1822 at Bilston.  She married at St Peter's Wolverhampton in 1844, and her father is very inconveniently shown in the register simply as J.Jones, a puddler, which gives me plenty of choice but nothing concrete to go on.

Has anyone come across a John/Joseph/James/Job/Jeremiah etc Jones working as a puddler in the town in the 1820s?  It's like looking for a needle in a very large haystack!

Cheers

- judijee
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: DudleyWinchurch on Wednesday 17 June 09 22:21 BST (UK)
Hi juidijee,

my sincere condolences.  I have a John Jones (too young to be yours, I'm afraid) as a visitor on one of the censuses and remember going through all of Bilston on one of the censuses a while ago (I think it was the 1841) and finding a John Jones on pretty much every page. 

There was a chartist leader called John Jones and I began to wonder if it was some elaborate scheme to hide him.

Sheila
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Tuesday 23 June 09 10:20 BST (UK)
My GGGGrandfather was a John Jones b 1785 Wolverhampton who moved to Bilston but he was a coal miner

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: judijee on Tuesday 30 June 09 13:03 BST (UK)
Sigh... :( I think I'l have to return the anonymous J.Jones to the back-burner for a while.
 
Perhaps I'll have more luck with this one - I've just discovered that another of my Bilston family connections donated a drinking fountain to the town.  It is/was engraved 'The gift of Henry Fowler' and dated 1859.  There's a couple of photos of it on the Black Country History website (which I can't reproduce because they're in copyright) and I wonder whether it's still there in Bilston?  From the photos it seems to be located on the corner of a street with a lamp standard or electricity pole in front of it and a white-painted pub in the background across the road.  The fountain is nothing very grand - just a basin with a (missing) water spout where folk could slake their thirst.

Does anyone know anything more about it?

Cheers
- judijee
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Tuesday 30 June 09 14:29 BST (UK)
Hiya Judijee

Could you post the link so we can have a look. There is a fountain outside St Marys - wonder if its the same one?

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Tuesday 30 June 09 14:39 BST (UK)
Found the photo but its not the one I was thinking of

The one outside St Marys is the one from High Street Methodist Church which must have been moved. I doesnt help that it doesnt say where it was situated

Though I am intrigued as to why there should be a picture of a lifeboat in Wolverhampton ?!

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: judijee on Wednesday 01 July 09 11:56 BST (UK)
Hi Willow

I wasn't sure if it was OK to post links here.   There are two photos of the Henry Fowler fountain on the Black Country History site.  The one showing the street and pub behind is on this link -

http://www.blackcountryhistory.org.uk/blackcountry/ShowImage.aspx?img=http://www.blackcountryhistory.org.uk/blackcountry/wolverhamptonimages/%C2%A9p0003051.jpg

The other photo is a close-up of the eroded engraving.

Cheers

- judijee
 
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Wednesday 01 July 09 12:14 BST (UK)
Hiya Judijee

I dont recognise the pub and unfortunately the name of the street is just out of view - grrrrr!

Do you recognise it Tony? It could be the George and Dragon in Broad Lanes though I think their door is in the middle

I might be worth dropping the Archives office an e-mail to see if they could tell you

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: judijee on Thursday 02 July 09 14:18 BST (UK)
Hiya Willow

Yes, I'll contact Wolverhampton Archives and ask them if they can identify the street name.   Thanks for looking!

- judijee
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: giraffe on Monday 27 July 09 23:38 BST (UK)

Any ideas how I could track down reports of William Wellings industrial accident and that of Joseph Bunce who died on 29th August 1891, although apparently the accident had happened a week or so previously? It's just conceivable that they were both mortally injured in the same "explosion". I've tried all the obvious on the internet.....but then Willow made that breakthrough where I had failed. Just goes to show that more than one working on something or taking a break and going back to a problem often results in a solution.
Thanks again.JJ

JJ, I'm sure I read an account (with photo) of the devastation when a large boiler exploded and collapsed at Bilston. I think it was on the Wolverhampton Archives website, under Bilston history. I will check through my docs and see if I still have it. I don't think it mentioned any names though.
Giraffe
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: Willow 4873 on Tuesday 28 July 09 13:52 BST (UK)
The wall above the tram line behind St Leonards has a poem about a boiler exploding on it - I wonder if it relates to this incident? (Was only put up in the last few years)

Willow x
Title: Re: Black Country (Bilston) Friends and Neighbours - more names
Post by: JDGen on Tuesday 04 August 09 17:53 BST (UK)
This thread is now locked as it has reached 20 pages.

Please start a new thread if it is still required, or post individual requests on the relevant board.

Thanks

Jean