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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: f1rocco on Monday 21 January 08 00:11 GMT (UK)
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So far thanks to this forum and incredible people offering assistance I found some new and exciting info.......Im now able to trace my family to around 1795-1851 timeline....I was told to try and post in this section for even more possible help.....
My oldest known relative is
Alexander B. Shields born around 1795
He married Janet ? Shields
It appears that Alexander also went by the names
Alexander Blackie
Alexander Sheals
Alexander Shields
Alexander B. Shields
Alexander Shields was the only listed Head of household of Grandson Peter Shields.....
Peter Shields was born around 1851 in TRANENT HADDINGTON...But in 1851 at 6 months old it appears that Peter goes by the name Peter Sheals living with his Grandfather Alexander Sheals in Tranent East Lothian....He also goes by Peter B. Shields...
Peter Shields aged 25 married Ellen Nute(in Cornwall untill 1871)aged 21 on the 14/4/1876 in Glasgow....Throughout the years they had children with known addresses.
89 John ST. in 1891
84 John ST. in 1901
457 Rutherglen Road in 1910
451 Rutherglen Road in 1910
Peter and Ellen children are believed to be
1891: Blythswood, Glasgow St David, Lanarkshire
Ref: Parish 644/7, ED 32, pg 11
Address: 89 John Street
Head: Peter SHIELDS 40, Wood Sawyer, b Tranent, Haddingtonshire
Wife: Ellen 35, b England
Dau: Janet 10, Scholar, b Glasgow
Dau: Elizabeth 8, Scholar, b Glasgow
Son: Alexander 7, Scholar, b Glasgow
Son: James 4, Scholar, b Glasgow
Son: Peter 3, Scholar, b Glasgow
Dau: Mary Jane 4 months, b Glasgow
Uncle: Charles 11, Scholar, b Kinghtswood, Dumbartonshire
Uncle: John 10, Scholar, b Glasgow
1901: Blythswood, Glasgow St Paul, Lanarkshire
Ref: Parish 644/7, ED 19, pg 4
Address: 84 John Street
Head: Peter SHIELDS 50, Wood Sawyer, b Tranent, Haddingtonshire
Wife: Ellen SHIELDS 45, b England
Son: WIlliam J SHIELDS 25, Law CLerk, b Glasgow
Son: Charles SHIELDS 24, Lip?? Assistant Agents (assistant) , New Kilpatrick, Invernesshire
Dau: Janet SHIELDS 20, Stationery & Gatecenick??? Asst , b Glasgow
Dau: Elizabeth SHIELDS 18, Ceyah?? Agents Assistant , b Glasgow
Son: Alexander SHIELDS 17, Telegraph Message, b Glasgow
Son: Peter SHIELDS 13, Scholar, b Glasgow
Son: James SHIELDS 11, Scholar, b Glasgow
Dau: Mary J. L. SHIELDS 10, Scholar, b Glasgow
Son: George SHIELDS 8, Scholar, b Glasgow
Son: Arthur J SHIELDS 3, b Glasgow
Neice: Elizabeth STEELE 49, General Servant Domestic, b Coatbridge Lanarkshire
Also appears to be that the first 4 children from Peter and Ellen were named after their parents...
Alexander/Janet/John(William J. figures to be William John or John William)/Elizabeth
Special Thanks to members here Ambly and Patrexjax And Winston for the help and motivation.....
Heres the link to the thread.......
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,278748.0.html
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Hi f1rocco, Ambly and Wendy
Just been reading through to the link on the other board ~ phew girls, huge effort on your parts!
It's late here in the UK and brain's is leaving my body ::)
There looks to be a couple who were having children around the same time which will make things confusing, I can see this family with a number of children living in Gladsmuir in the 1861 Census. They also had a son Peter in the right time frame:
08/12/1850 BLACKIE PETER JOHN BLACKIE/MARY WILSON FR356 M Ormiston /EAST LOTHIAN 715/ 0020 0064
Birth from IGI looks to be: 05 NOV 1850
To recap slightly, from the other post, you have the 1851 census entry for Peter:
Alexander Blackie 59, head, pauper formerly ag. lab., b. Tranent, Haddingtonshire
Janet Blackie 66, wife, b. Gladsmuir, Haddingtonshire
Janet Blackie 18, daug., b Tranent, Haddingtonshire
John Blackie 38, son, co lab. b. Ormaston, Haddingtonshire
Peter Sheals 6 Months, grandson, b Tranent, Haddingtonshire
In 1861, we know that Peter was still living with Alexander and Janet:
Alexander Blackie 68
Janet Blackie 45 (?)
John Blackie 45
Peter Blackie 10, grandson
Address: Chaulkside Farm Cottages, Inveresk Midlothian
F1rocco, I wouldn't be too concerned about the spelling variations between Blackie/Blaikie and Sheals/Sheills/Shields, very much reflecting a sign of the times when spellings were not rigid and varied enormously. I am however curious about Blackie and Shields being used interchangeably, not a combination I have seen before. Reasons there will be, not sure if we will make them out...
What were the names of Peter's parents from his marriage cert?
Regards.
Monica :)
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One last one before I go...
Alexander Snr. died in 1869:
1869 BLAIKIE ALEXANDER 78 DIRLETON/EAST LOTHIAN 705/00 0003
Wife Janet's maiden name was Henderson and she had pre-deceased him. Parents John and Margaret (maiden name looks like Nap?in).
Some children showing for Alexander and Janet HENDERSON on IGI:
1. MARGARET BLAICKIE Christening: 08 FEB 1809 Cranston, Midlothian, Scotland
2. JOHN BLACKIE Birth: 09 JUN 1811/ Christening: 30 JUN 1811 Ormiston, East Lothian, Scotland - who shows on the censuses?
3. MARY BLAIKIE Christening: 26 DEC 1813 Tranent, East Lothian, Scotland
4. ROBERT BLAIKIE Christening: 17 AUG 1816 Inveresk With Musselburgh, Midlothian, Scotland
5. ALEXANDER BLAKIE Birth: 16 MAR 1825/ Christening: 04 APR 1825 Pencaitland, East Lothian, Scotland
5. PETER BLAKIE Birth: 16 JAN 1827/Christening: 19 FEB 1827 Pencaitland, East Lothian, Scotland
Monica
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Hi Monica! Don't go!!
Hi Monica Jason and Wendy - sorry didn't realise you were back on board, Jason (no notifications of updates on old msg ???) I was waiting for your return!
Monica - the address of the 1851 Census was Myles Farm....I think that's a big clue... ;D
Wendy very kindly let me have a look at the 1876 marriage cert for Peter SHEILDS and Ellen NUTE. Now, the resolution was too low, and the copy poor quality for a 100% - but this is what I made it out to be for Peter SHIELDS, age 25 Wood Sawyer Journeyman. For his parentage, I beleive it says - line by line:
George SHIELDS
Farmer 'Reputed father'
and Jane(t?) BLACKIE, -----------------?
of ---------------------? of Arthur?
Mennie??? ----? ------? deceased.
I am sure it says "Arthur' - but I might, I admit be wanting it to say MENNIE - there is a marriage of a Jane BLACKIE and Arthur MENNIE on the IGI, and on SP. I think the words I can't read about Jane(t) may be the clue to what became of her.
I also think that for Ellen's parents it says her mother, as well as being Mrs NUTE, was M.S (maiden Surname) NUTE.
And......I believe George SHIELDS was the Farmers son of Myles Farm, Tranent, ....where of course, Peter was with his grandparents in 1851 ........ just getting the Census details now ...........
Cheers
AMBLY
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More pieces falling into place!
Add one more...confirming the faintly written maiden name for Alexander's mother I would think:
ALEXR. BLEAKIE Birth: 22 JUN 1791 Christening: 03 JUL 1791 Seton, East Lothian, Scotland
Parents: JOHN BLEAKIE and MARGARET NISPER
Other children showing to John and Margaret NISPER:
1. ISOBELL BLEAKIE Birth: 01 JAN 1797/Christening: 06 FEB 1797 Seton, East Lothian, ScotlandDeath: 16 FEB 1848
2. PETER BLEAKIE Birth: 19 APR 1788/ Christening: 27 APR 1788 Seton, East Lothian, Scotland
3. PETER BLEAKIE Birth: 01 MAR 1793/Christening: 08 MAR 1793 Seton, East Lothian, Scotland
4. JAMES BLEAKIE Birth: 08 SEP 1800/ Christening: 28 SEP 1800 Seton, East Lothian, Scotland
5. MAITLAND BLEAKIE Birth: 13 NOV 1798 Seton, East Lothian, Scotland/ Marriage: 11 JUL 1824 Tranent, East Lothian, Scotland
6. JANNET BLEAKIE Birth: 12 JUL 1789/ Christening: 31 JUL 1789 Seton, East Lothian, Scotland
7. CHARLES BLEAKIE Birth: 08 JUN 1795/ Christening: 14 JUN 1795 Cockenzie, East Lothian, Scotland
And submitted details on IGI for father John:
JOHN BLEAKIE Birth: NOV 1761
Parents: PETER BLEAKIE and JANET ANDERSON
Marriages: Spouse: MARGARET NISPER Marriage: About 1785 Tranent, East Lothian, Scotland
Now, I really really am off to bed because I'll need these 8) in the morning ieven in a very wet and cold London morning ;)
Monica
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Ambly
I think you are spot on re George Shields ~ the farmer's son. I'll leave you to post. So we have daughter Janet at home with parents at Myles Farm with her baby Peter son of farmer's son George.....PERFECT!!! Doesn't always come through like that, in fact nearly never.
LUCKY LUCKY ;D
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Just firming up the details you gave Ambly from Peter's MC. Mother Janet died young, father Alexander reported her death. She was already a widow....other name MENIE :D
1865 BLAIKIE JANET MENIE F U CRANSTON /MIDLOTHIAN 680/00 0016
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Oh! Whoopee! Great Monica!
This is Peter's VERY likey Dad - product the well off Farmers Son, and the poor Farm Labourers daughter......?
1851 : Myles farm, Tranent, East Lothian
Ref: Parish 722 / ED 8, pg 3
Head: John SHEILLS 56, Farmar Of 431 Acres Emploing 10 Middland 7 Farmar , b Westruther, Berickshire
Son: George SHEILLS 23, Farmers Son, b Crighton, Midlothan
Dau: Elizabeth SHIELLS 16, Famers Daughter, b Crighton, Midlothan
Servant: Margaret KNOX 21, House Servant, b Chavelkirk? , Berickshire
Servant: Neil CUNNINGHAM 23, Ag Lab, b Stanton, Haddingtonshire
Servant: ALexander YOUNG 20, Ag Lab, b Tranent, Haddingtonshire
Servant: Robert FISHER 18, Ag Lab, b Garvald, Haddington
Servant: John CURRIE 17, Ag Lab, b Peebles, Peebelshire
In 1851 Peter SHEALS, Grandson of Alexander BLACKIE and Janet, is at
Myles Farm, Tranent, East Lothian
Ref: Parish 722 / ED 8, pg 5
Jason - as Monica said - how lucky, lucky you are to have such a set of circumstances reagrding the illigitimate born (we assume) Peter! Not in the least that he apparently, actually went by his father's surname AND his father is so probably identifable. It's rather like a Catherine Cookson novel plot. ;D
Many people with an illigitimate ancestor come to a full stop with the birth certificate - and can only hope for eg, that the child is given the father's middle name as a clue, or they find some kind of Parish order or proceedings outlining and admonishing the parents for the illigitimacy, etc.
Cheers
AMBLY
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As you say Ambly, a lot of acres ;D
Just for the record, this looks like the Blaikie 1841 entry, everyone showing as born in the county except for daughter Janet:
Alexr Blaikie 40
Janet Blaikie 55
Janet Blaikie 10 b. Scotland
John Blaikie 20
Peter Blaikie 13
Address: Whinbush, Gladsmuir East Lothian
I really I'm off now...just over five hours and I'm on the school run!
Monica :)
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Wow....Thanks all....
I searched all day on my other sides of the family since I searched all the leads from the Shields side.........
Im reading the thread now.....Just wanted to thank you before I even read it.....
Big thanks to all.......I wanted to thank Wendy but appeared the Wendy might be Ambly so I didnt post the name....Sorry if I missed ya....Triple Thank You
Jason Shields
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I think I get it........
Peter Blackie is Actually Peter Blackie Shields whos father was George Shields the Farmers son of Land owner John Shiels.....
Peter was the illegitimate child of Janet Blackie a farm workers daughter whose father was Alexander B Shields aka Alexander Blackie....The grandfather who raised Peter Shields.......
Im guessing this decision would have been made since the Shields would not allow such a wedding between a Farmers son and the laborers...
Cool Super Cool putting this puzzle together and what great luck was it to find the connection to Blackie......
Thanks
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Thanks I told myself I would quit searching after this....Not a chance...
Appears to be other Shields children born on the farm during these years......
Hmmmmmm...Scratches his head and knows where this is going..
George Shields Mofat
Born May 14th 1849...Myles Farm, Tranent, Haddingtonshire, Scotland
http://genealogy.clanmoffat.org/familygroup.php?familyID=F41921&tree=ClanMoffat
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Not sure if these are also another connection...Dates fit for
George Shields
http://www.shiels.ca/family/GeorgeShiels1828.html
Names and dates fit for Ellen Shields
Peters wife Ellen Nute....My family info also gives Nute as the maiden
1851 Cornwall census
200,,Elizabeth Nute,Wife,M,,30,Sailors Wife,Penryn Cornwall,,
,,James Nute,Son,,5m,,Sailors Son,Penryn Cornwall,,Twin of John
,,John Nute,Son,,5m,,Sailors Son,Penryn Cornwall,,Twin of James
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~kayhin/51911h.html
Bankruptcy of the Myers farm..John Shiels.............
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=post;msg=1640526;topic=280255.0;sesc=fb514c0a784f1de6abba7761427b72a9
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Hi Jason
You're up and running now!
Nope, Wendy and I are seperate ;D
Peter was the illegitimate child of Janet Blackie a farm workers daughter whose father was Alexander B Shields aka Alexander Blackie....The grandfather who raised Peter Shields.......
Not quite ;D .....Janet BLACKIE's father was Alexander BLACKIE - he and and his wife, also named Janet appear* to have raised their daughter Janet's son Peter. When Peter married, he named a son after his Grandad by naming the boy: Alexander Blackie SHIELDS.
I say appear...., Peter in the BLACKIE household 1851 is understandable - so is his unwed mother. But Peter in the BLACKIE household in 1861 - in a new county, too, may or may not indicate they were raising Peter! He may simply have been visiting his Grandparents at the time, either for a period of time - or as simple as him sleeping in their house on Census night. His mother Janet, by all accounts is living in 1861 - she was to die a widow in 1865.
Now if I may romance on a bit......That Peter used the SHIELDS name may indicate, he had a personal relationship with George SHIELLS/SHIELDS and at some stage at least adopted the surname if he hadn't used it exclusively up until 1876 - or it may indicate a doggedness on the part of the BLACKIE's to ensure George or his family were at the very least kept publicly aware and reminded of George's indiscretion!
If only we could find:
Janet in 1861
Peter in 1871
Peter and Ellen in 1881
Cheers
AMBLY
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Im thinking.......
George had some problems with the female help on the farm during 1849-1851 while in his early twenties.......Possibly two illegitimate children with two different woman...
Im also thinking he found out his father was George Shields after his mother Janet and grandfather Alexander Blackie passed away and they were kicked off the farm by 1871....
Also odd that the census shows Georges father as not having a wife and only two children and a farmer with alot of acres of land in 1851.....Did she die....Or did John Shiells have the same habits as George might have had......Also no offspring of George I can find anywhere
Also if the link Ive added fits about the family farm going into bankruptcy and a Brother part owner Alexander Shields being in a heated battle with brother/owner John over money owed to try and save the farm....That would also match with Peter naming a child named Alexander in 1892..........
Thanks
Ive got 18 hours straight of family searching on all sides today......Ive gotta try to sleep now.....Until Tomorrow.......
Peter also seems to name his child George in 1893...Did he come to peace with his father.......George would have been 65 yrs old in 1893.....
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George Shields Mofat
Born May 14th 1849...Myles Farm, Tranent, Haddingtonshire, Scotland
Son of James MOFFATT and Joan POW
At first sight this may look like Peter's reputed father has a lot of answering to do - but I don't think so....
George Shields MOFFAT is the 3rd child, (and 2rd Son) of James & Joan - and he appears to be legitimate born.
James MOFATT's father is named David, his mother is Janet,
Joan POW's father is named George, her mother is Isabella.
In the 1851 Census, James and Joan and their 3 children, David, Isabella and little George are indeed, at Myles Farm. James is an Ag Lab - likely in the employ of John SHIELS.
James & Joan named:
their first son David - after James father.
their second Son George - after Joan's father (and perhaps a middle name 'Shields' after their 'laird', quite a common Scottish thing to do if there was a strong loyalty and respect between worker and employer)
their first daughter Isabella after Joan's mother
their second Daughter Jessie (pet form of Janet) after James' mother.
Google "Scottish Naming Patterns" - it's a very useful tool with Scottish research, not always foolproof but very visible and fairly strictly adhered to in many a family, more so than with English families. It can and did create families with generations of the same names passed down, and with little parcels of cousins running about in the same parish, all named the same after their mutual grandparents ;D ;D What helped sort them out, was the other common practice, to give a mother's or grandmother's maiden name as a middle name!
To keep the overall pattern, the 3rd Son should be named after his father - ie James (the 3rd son is Robert James, a slight deviation) . And the 3rd Daughter after the mother - ie Joan (which can be also rendered as Jean, Johan, Johanna, Johan ) in records - perhaps "Jessie" covered both Janet and Joan!
So - I've gone all round the world to say is.... I would bet this George Shields MOFFAT has nothing biologically to do with Peter's reputed father.
Good find though!
Cheers
AMBLY
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I was busy thinking and writing the above at my lesiure - thought you'd gone for the night ;D ;D ;D
I can't seem to get into that Bankruptcy Link.... ??? ??? ???
You could be right about the Alexander thing - perhaps Peter did have a relationship with the SHIELL/DS family, and in naming his son Alexander Blackie, killed two birds with one stone (after his paternal Uncle and his maternal Grandad)....
Is there any indication the BLACKIE's were 'kicked' off Myles farm by 1861 (when they appear in Midlothian) - certainly a plausible outcome of Peter's birth,,however
Alexander BLACKIE was elderly and a Pauper former Ag Lab there in 1851 - perhaps his time was simply 'up' for being on the farm....no sons to work in his place.... though, in saying - in 1861 he was enumerated as a Ploughman....
I think I did find John SHIELS with his wife on earlier Census - she probably died before 1851... will look it up again...
Might also be interesting to obtain the will of John SHIELS if he left one .......whatever he may have had to bequeath, he may have made mention of a grandson named Peter Blackie SHIELDS...you never know!
Soctland People does have an Entry in it's Wills section for a John SHIELS Residing in Court Street, Haddington, d. 20/06/1875 at Haddington, testate. Maybe?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Peter's mother Jane(t) BLACKIE.......think I may have her christening....
On the 1851, she was stated as born Tranent, East Lothian.
On the 1841, she alone of the family, is stated as NOT born in East Lothian.
Other of her parents' children were born in Midlothian - Musselbugh, Inveresk and Cranston.....
IGI has:
Janet BLACKIE christened 24 Oct 1830, Cranston Midlothian
Father: Alexander BLACKIE
Mother not stated on this entry......
Cheers
AMBLY
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I thought a little light relief might be called for with a look at the Nute family :P However, I think we are likely to be back in the realms of who was the father. What did Ellen put down on her MC as the father's details?
I don't think that the 1851 Census in Cornwall that has been cited is the correct one:
1851 Cornwall census
200,,Elizabeth Nute,Wife,M,,30,Sailors Wife,Penryn Cornwall,,
,,James Nute,Son,,5m,,Sailors Son,Penryn Cornwall,,Twin of John
,,John Nute,Son,,5m,,Sailors Son,Penryn Cornwall,,Twin of James
This Elizabeth was married to a William and her maiden name looks to have COUSIER. This William and Elizabeth went on to have numerous more children - none of them Ellen. From the 1861 Census:
James Cosier 76
Jane Cosier 76
Elizth Nute 41, mariner's wife
Elizth Nute 13
James Nute 10
John Nute 10
Jane Nute 7
William Nute 1
Adddress: Penryn, Cornwall, England
From the 1861 Census, I think this is Ellen and her family:
Elizabeth Nute 44, head, unmarried, housekeeper, b. St Stephens Cornwall
Willice Nute 10, b. St Stephens Cornwall
Bessey Nute 8, b. St Stephens Cornwall
Ellen Nute 6, b. St Stephens, Cornwall
Jabez Nute 3, b. St Ives Cornwall
Charles Nute 2, b. St Ives Cornwall
Mary Jane Roberts 2, relative's child, Devonport, Devon
Address: St Ives, Cornwall
And Ellen in 1871:
Ellen Nute, 15, b. St. Stephens, Cornwall, England working in the Grainger household as a domestic servant in Saltash Cornwall.
Monica
ADDED: From other board, Ellen's father is down as JOHN NUTE....not that it helps at the moment!
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Hi Monica!
On Peter and Ellen's MC in Rohin Parish Glasgow- I think it says for Ellen:
Father: John NUTE, Coal Miner deceased and Elizabeth NUTE, M.S. NUTE
(Jason - this is what I meant, looks like Ellen's mother was nee NUTE as well as marrying one)
The marriage witness: I make out to be:
James John NUTE , signed his X Mark, Witness
??? NUTE, signed, Witness
The second Witness, at first I thought it might say Lizzie, then maybe Agnes - now, it could be Bessie....... ???
Cheers
AMBLY
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Sadly I can't see any Nute b. England in the 1881 Census in Scotland, hard to confirm the names.
There is a possible entry for Peter in 1871:
Peter Shields, 21, b. Scotland, soldier at Military Encampment, Pembroke Dock, Pembrokeshire, Wales
Peter was consistent with his age throughout - could well be him.
Monica
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Mmmm...I wonder:
Bessie Nute, 49, b. England, domestic living in Glasgow in the Thomson household
Monica
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;D ;D Bessie came through!
Marriage:
1904 GIBSON JOHN NUTE BESSIE CATHCART /LANARK/RENFREW 560/00 0024
Parents John NUTE ironstone miner and Elizabeth Pethern (spl?)...so Elizabeth's maiden name wasn't Nute. Still worries me that she shows as unmarried on the 1861 census entry. Haven't been able to find her as yet in 1851.
Ambly, I'll send you the image and see what you think of the maiden name.
Monica
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In 1871, Elizabeth Nute, mother, still living in St Ives and still showing as unmarried ???
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Cripes, Monica ;D ;D I can't keep up :-)
Your'e right Jason is having a run of great good luck ;D
Bessie age 49 - that was in the 1901?
AND she married out of Ellen & Peter's address as per the 1891 Census, 89 John St!!
I agree with you I think it says mother's maiden name PETHERN on Bessie's MC
It definitely doesn't say PETHERN on Ellen's - I am 99.999% sure it says, her mother's M.S. is NUTE (which could be a mistake on someon'e part) but smells like a mystery, doesn't it!
That Soldier looks good too, doesn't he - though to be out by 1876, that could mean he was invalided out or something ..............puts him in right ort of wider area for meeting Ellen though if she was in Cornwall at that time....hmmm!
Now my turn ;D
The DC of Janet MENIE nee BLAIKIE - said she died at Cousland in Cranston.....
I just found this below in 1861 - Not Peter's mother Janet - but looking at the address!! I think it's maybe it's her sister-in-law - the 1851 shows (if I've settled on the right ones in 1851) that this Jane BLACKIE's husband was Robert BLACKIE born abt 1815 Cranston.........
1861; Cranston, Midlothian
Ref: Parish 680, ED 2, pg 9
Address: Address: 38 Cousland V
Wife: Jane BLACKIE 43, Wife Of Limestone Miner , b Inveresk, Edinburgh
Son; Thomas BLACKIE 13, b Cranton
Dau: Jane BLACKIE 10, b Cranston
Son: Robert BLACKIE 6, b Cranston
And this Rootsweb Tree...
http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:974830&id=I46441960
Is starting to make sense now, I had wondered about it;s sources, and why (some people do one name studies or 1-location studies......but maybe not.
It says Janet BLACKIE, Peter's mother may be this one:
1861 Tranent, East Lothian
Address: East Side of Back Street #94
Matron: Mary Hume, matron, widow, 67, matron of Parish Lodging ___?, Currie, Midlothian
Inmate: Janet Blackie, unmarried, 31, pauper, outworker agricultural labourer,
Tranent.
An Arthur MENNIE did die in Dalkeith Midlothian 1859, unsure of age (not indexed).
Cheers
AMBLY
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A search for 'any' PETHERN brings up not many entries in England...but with a lion share concentrated in Cornwall...so we may be on to something there. Maybe Elizabeth, who shows as unmarried, waas a Pethern but adopted the name Nute without marrying John. Haven't been able to find any relevant entries for father John in any of the early censuses.
I agree, that RootsWeb tree is certainly the same family of Blaikies :) Not sure how accurate it is v. what we have found but that will be something for Jason to work through ;)
The 1861 census entry for a Janet Blaikie would fit though why she would show as single is a puzzle. Also I cannot see any deaths for the two girls from her marriage to Arthur Mennie pre 1861 - they must be somewhere:
1. JANE MENNIE Birth: 06 SEP 1856 Tranent, East Lothian, Scotland
2. JANET HENDERSON MENNIE Birth: 26 JAN 1858 Tranent, East Lothian, Scotland
Monica
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Erk......
I just realised - Bessie NUTE married widower John GIBSON the 67 year old House Painter in beginning of March 1904 .1901, before the Census was taken on 31st....
Here we go - now I'm really getting bothered! I am ferverishly hoping - that some names and ages are getting a bit twisted , and Jason, perhaps investing in the original image off SP will sort it out.... ;D
1901: Blythswood, Glasgow St David, Lanarkshire
Ref: 644/7, ED 16. pg 8 - Household Schedule 40
Address: 89 John Street
Head: John GIBSON 64, House Painter, b Greenock RNF
Wife: Ruth GIBSON 62, b Ireland
Dau: Elizabeth GIBSON 23, Envelope Maker , b Greenock RNF
Margaret BARNETT 8, b Glasgow RNF (sic - aka Glasgow in RNF ?)
then:
1901: Blythswood, Glasgow St David, Lanarkshire
Ref: 644/7, ED 16. pg 7 - Household Schedule 35
Address: 89 John Street
Head: Bessie NUTE 49, Corporation Domestic, b England
Dau: Emily THOMSON 28, b England
Grand-Dau: Bessie N THOMSON 8, b Glasgow
Grandau: Jessie THOMSON 6, b Glasgow
Grandau: Jane H THOMSON 4, b Glasgow
GrandDau: Emily N THOMSON 2, b Glasgow
Plus, 2 Boarders: Mary WHITE 25 born Ayr, and Maggie HUGHES 44, b Glasgow
In 1901 for Peter and Ellen at 84 John - the ED is 19, page 4 (maybe the way the street was split up fir the enumerators casued the 1 street, and 2 near-together-housed on it to fall into different ED's.......
Do we think that Bessie NUTE age 49, is not really 49, and is in fact, Ellen's and "Ruth" 's mother ??? no we do not :-[
This also rather scotches any impression which may be tempted to be held about 89 John St er al, - not a cute little semi-detached (Brownstone to you Jason ;D) , or a 2-up-2-down with a fence and aspidestras and all - more likely a tenement type house...? I don't really know (Monica?) but a large number of seperate families have this as their address......
AMBLY
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PS - I MUST MUST go to bed! I got all overbewhelmed when I saw Jane H THOMSON age 4 in 1901! I thought "Yes!! aka Jane Henderson MENNIE, adopted by her half-brother's wife's sister!" Well stranger things have happened - not however, having a lassie born 1858 appearing as a 4 year old in 1901 though!! Oh, well! It was a fun thought while it lasted ;D ;D
AMBLY
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Oh Gosh, Goodnight - The NUTE GIBSON marriage is 1904. Grr.
So scotch the theories..so struck out above!
But - here we have - Bessie a Spinster in 1904, and in 1901 she has a daughter b 1873.......
Cheers and Goodnight!
AMBLY
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Oops - I missed the relationships in the household for Bessie in 1901 - I put her down as a worker for Thomsons not the mother :P
Bessie probably was unmarried prior to her marriage in 1904...me thinks that's the way it was with Elizabeth Snr....
Monica :)
-
Entry on IGI, not sure if submitted or actual:
Emily Nute Christening: 20 APR 1873 Thrapston, Northampton, England
Parents: Mother: Bessie Nute
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One for the road......
SNAP Monica!
IGI:
Emily NUTE chr 20 pril 1873, Thrapston Northamptonshire
Mother: Bessie NUTE
No father listed
It's regsitered on FREEBMD too.....
June Qtr 1873
Northamptonshire - rings a bell, I saw something the other day in passing.... can't remember...
Night
AMBLY 8) zzzz
PS Jason - are you keeping up ;D
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Enjoy your rest Ambly ~ well deserved ;)
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You peeps are great............
I put down the wrong link for the bankruptcy which I cant find again...I will....I also found a will of John Shiels last night but cant seem to find that one either.........I will.......My brain and eyes turned to mush last night..
I still havent read through all the post to put this all together....
Thank You in advance and afterwards........
Jason Shields....
-
Looks like the link was wrong.....Appears to be a James Shiels a farmer in Ensay who had a brother Alexander...
June 29th 1837
http://shrinkalink.com/21079
I cant find the link on the other article...might have been Myles farm....But I was tired last night and things were getting blurry
I believe I read James Shields lost the farm and pointed the finger at his brother Alexander for selling Peaches and potates in another town and not paying James the money.....James seems to be trying to get the money needed and extra time to save the farm because of Alexanders action but is denied..
Thanks
-
Shame, that would have been a great story to have in the Family annals!
SHIELLS was a fairly prominent name in East and Mid-Lothian - no doubt a lot of them are related (you could add a One name study to your bow!)
But these look like yours......
IGI:
John SHIELL and Mary NISBET, dau of John George NISBET
married in extracted records:
13 OCT 1822 Westruther, Berwickshire and 13 Oct 1822 Channelkirk, Berwick *
Children: (all on IGI except for Elizabeth?)
Alison SHIELS chr 1 Jun 1823 Crichton MDL
Andrew SHIELS chr 16 May 1825 Crichton MDL
George SHIELS chr 6 Aug 1827 Chrichton MDL
John SHIELL chr 6 Apr 1830 Crichton MDL
Elizabeth SHEILLS b abt 1835 Crichton MDL (not on IGI)
Census (from FREECEN):
http://freecen.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
1841: Myles Farm, Tranent,East Lothian
parish 722, ED 11 Folio 8, pg 5
John SHEILLS 45, Farmer - N
Alison SHEILLS 15, - N
Andrew SHEILLS 15, - N
Elizabeth SHEILLS 6, - N
Joan CURRIE 20, F. S. - Y
Mary CARMICHAEL 15, F.S. - Y
Missing from 1841 are sons George age abt 13, and John age abt 11
Looks like them here, possibly with family members:
1841: Longfaugh Mains , Crichton , Midlothian
Parish 681, ED 4, Folio 4, pg 1
George SHIELS 13 - Y
John SHIELS 11 - Y
Geo SUDESORF 20, Ag Lab - Y
James HUNTER 25, Ag Lab - N
Mary CLEUGH 74, Ind - N
Marg't BATHGATE 25 F.S. - N
This is the order it has been transcribed on FREECEN - I wonder about the position of Mary CLEUGH, as it looks to me as if she should be the "header" person of the house?
Not finding Any of them in 1861 (I just discovered FREECEN has 100% of East Lothian Census on line too, as well as same for 1841 and 1851).
In 1871, Farm of Myles is apparently owned by a James STENHOUSE age 36, Farmer Employing 13 men 1 Boy and 116 Women
[116 Women !?]
Cheers
AMBLY
Note on Banns
** (2 entries are because Banns were called in both the parish of the bride and the groom. Sometimes you will find each has a different date. Usually the later dates will be where the actual marriage was eventually recorded. Banns - notice of intent to marry, were recorded in the registers - and were read out: I think for 3 consecutive Sundays or something....This gave the Parishioners a chance to speak up with information as to why the marriage should not be permitted to take place....When the actual marriage took place (traditionally in the bride's Parish) the record was added to accordingly. Sometimes, a couple did not go ahead with marriage - it was called off for various reasons, but the Parish record of the banns remained 'on the books'. So when sometimes one finds a marriage on the IGI , yet cannot find the supposed couple or any children - it could be for that reason......
.....I do recall reading about such a case - where it was eventually discovered the bride to be found out (or someone did!) that her intended had already gotten another lassie withchild, and in the end he was made to marry the pregnant girl....
Another thing is, a couple who have the same address on a marriage cert - it doesn't mean they were necessarily 'living together' before they married - it may mean that, to avoid fuss and bother they listed themselves as being of the same Parish to avoid have to have Banns recorded and read out in 2 seperate parishes.
-
Jason! ;D
See how this page has widened - due to the long URL in yr last message above?
Check out Shrink-A-Link:
http://shrinkalink.com/
Instead of pasting in a long URL. paste said URL into Shrink-A-Link, then "shrink it" - it produces a mini URL to paste into your message instead, which when clicked goes off to the web page referenced in the long URL.....
AMBLY
;D
-
Check out Shrink-A-Link:
http://shrinkalink.com/
AMBLY
;D
All fixed thanks..Cool
-
Might be where George and his brother went in 1881
Black Callerton, Northumberland, England
http://www.familysearch.org/eng/Search/frameset_search.asp
Looks like the same George with two boys and no wife..Says he is widowed...Hmmmm.....
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We do like that one............I think you've cracked it!
This is what you've found:
1881: B Callerton Farm (2) , Black Callerton, Northumberland
Ref: RG11 / Piece: 5099 / Folio: 125 / Pg 13
Head: Andrew SHIELLS 55, Farmer Of 363 Ac Employing 6 Men 5 Women b Scotland
Wife: Isabella SHIELLS 40 , Farmers Wife Winlaton, Durham
Son: John SHIELLS 3, b Newburn, Northumberland
Dau: Mary E. SHIELLS 1 , b Newburn, Northumberland
Brother: George SHIELLS , 53, Farm Serv 2 Assistant to Herd (Ag Lab Indoor) , b Scotland
Nephew: James SHIELLS 16 Scholar, b Newburn, Northumberland,
Nephew: George SHIELLS 14, Scholar, Newburn, Northumberland
Plus, 4 Servants
In 1871, that George is a widower in Black Callerton.....
And Guess who he is with.....his Dad, John - farmer of the same 363 acres. So Andrew got the farm....... talk about birds and stones. I can't beleive the run of luck you've had with this lot!
Hang on details coming up....
Cheers ;D
AMBLY
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1871: Black Callerton, Northumberland
Ref: RG10 - Piece: 5140 - Folio: 84 - Pg 6
Address: Black Callerton
Head: John SHEILLS 77, widr, Farmer of 363 acres employing 8 Men, b Scotland
Son: George SHIELLS 42, widr, Farmers Son, b Scotland
Grand-Dau: Mary DUNN 18, unm, Housekeeper, b Scotland
Grandson: John DUNN 16, Farm Servant, b Scotland
Plus, 4 Farm labourer servants.
Cheers
AMBLY
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One more
Mary Nisbet father might have been named Robert
MARY NISBET Pedigree
Female Family
~~~~~~~~
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:
~~~~~~~~
Parents:
Father: GEORGE NISBET Family
~~~~~~~~
Marriages:
Spouse: JOHN SHIELS Family
Marriage: 13 OCT 1822 Westruther, Berwick, Scotland
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Or George. maybe?? ;D ;D :P
Not John (as I wrote :P, Not Robert neither :P
That's the IGI record I found, above, though in my haste I typed in her father's name wrong.... (doh)
Now for the sad news....
Was not finding much on the 1891.... so checked FREEBMD.
Castle Ward Reg District, Northumberland (covers Black Callerton)
father John died Mar Qtr 1878 age 84
son: George died Sep Qtr 1881 (not long after that Census) - age 53
Son: Andrew died Jun Qtr 1884 age 57
It is nice to know, this is probably them and you do know when they died.
Also, a Jane SHIELLS age 42 died in 1870 Castle Ward - could be George's wife - or maybe Andrew's first wife? Andrew married Isabella in 1876.
http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
Cheers
AMBLY
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Here's Andrew's widow....
1891: Black Callerton, Northumberland
Ref: RG12 - Piece: 4243 - Folio 132 - Pg 6
Address: Black Callerton
Head: Isabella SHIELLS 49, widow, Farmer, b High Spen Durham
Dau: Mary Lizzie SHIELLS 12, b Newburn NBU
Son: Andrew SHIELLS 8, b Newburn NBU
Plus 6 farm servants.
One of the servants occupations, reveals it's a Dairy Farm.
(Can't see son John SHEILLS age abt 13 in 1891....)
1901: Whitley, Northumberland
Ref: RG13 - Piece: 4805 - Folio: 64 - pg 22
Address: 64 Park Avenue - Whitley Dairy
Head: Isabella SHIELLS 63, widow, Farmer, b The Spen, Durham
Son: John SHIELLS 23, unm, Farmers Son, b Black Callerton
Dau: Mary E SHIELLS 21 unm, b Black Callerton
Son: ANdre SHIELLS 17, unm , Farmers Son, b Black Callerton
Plus 1 sevant, a Horseman.
hahahah! A Park Avenue adrdess - not quite the one a New Yorker might aspire too.. ;D
My eyes have - to quote Monica - given up! And I'm feeling all confused as to who to look for next ;D
Hey, Jason - if you like and we can help - how about you go thru amd make a list of all we would like to look for now you have all this - you know: missing on Census, or just in a Census, BDM, etc.... - Then we can pick m off one at a time and see what we can tie up??
Cheers ;D
AMBLY
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Yeah.....Im about burned out too.......
Ill put together some names and dates and do some extra surfing for new leads........As well as go to my local library to find my great grandmothers maiden name from NY 1913-1929...
I guess I will work on
John Shields
Born in Westruther Berickshire about 1796 and died 1878....
Ive been cross checking names of popularity to see if I can find a date and relation similarity....But nothing so far........When I find anything solid Ill post....
Id like to send youve that helped a gift from Rochester NY....If anybody collects funny stuff let me know and Ill send you out something.....Thanks again..
Jason Shields
Thanks everyone............
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Kind offer Jason....especially the funny stuff ::)....but the thrill of the search is enough....Ambly and I (and Wendy ;)) have had fun with this one ;D
As Ambly said, you have gathered a huge number of lines, names and connections. You need to sit down now and make sense of it all (a good genealogy software would help too to help you keep track and make sense of it all).
There will undoubtedly be gaps to fill (there always are) and details that need to be verified but you now have more than the bare bones to fill out. Do post back with any updates!
Regards.
Monica :)
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The issue of the name of George's wife, given that he shows as a widower in the 1871 in Black Callerton.
Ambly has found a death entry for a Jane Shields in 1870 in the right district for Black Callerton. There is a also a submitted entry on IGI which shows a marriage for a George Shields and a Jane Thomson in 1869 in Black Callerton, Newburn. Nothing else to verify this info at present.
Regards.
Monica
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And Ditto from me ;D This one has kept me well intrigued for a good few minutes ;D
At last count I believe I got 2 cyber-kisses from Rochester - what more could a girl ask for... apart from if I find I have any ancestors within xxx mile radius from Rochester NY , I know who I'm a-gonna call.............. ;D ;D ;D
Look forward to hearing/seeing how you go on with these!
(Still pondering Bessie with the Thrapston born daughter though..........)
Cheers
AMBLY
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Can't find Bessie or daughter in 1881/91...they're out there somewhere!
Ambly, from your 1881 Census for George:
1881: B Callerton Farm (2) , Black Callerton, Northumberland
Ref: RG11 / Piece: 5099 / Folio: 125 / Pg 13
Head: Andrew SHIELLS 55, Farmer Of 363 Ac Employing 6 Men 5 Women b Scotland
Wife: Isabella SHIELLS 40 , Farmers Wife Winlaton, Durham
Son: John SHIELLS 3, b Newburn, Northumberland
Dau: Mary E. SHIELLS 1 , b Newburn, Northumberland
Brother: George SHIELLS , 53, Farm Serv 2 Assistant to Herd (Ag Lab Indoor) , b Scotland
Nephew: James SHIELLS 16 Scholar, b Newburn, Northumberland,
Nephew: George SHIELLS 14, Scholar, Newburn, Northumberland
The two nephews above James and George in 1871 in Black Callerton, Newburn (sons of George?):
James Thomson 70, head, schoolmaster
Robert Thomson 29, son, tailor,
Ra James Shiells 6, grandson, b. Newburn
George Shiells 4, grandson, b. Newburn
Mary Ann Swond 60, housekeeper
Monica
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:D The marriage from freebmd:
Marriages Jun 1864
Shiells George Newcastle T 10b 33
Thompson Jane Newcastle T10b 33
Monica
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:'( Perhaps the reason why Jane Thomson Shields died in 1870:
John Sheills Birth: APR 1870 Black Callerton, Newburn, Northumberland, England
Death: 13 JUL 1870
Parents: George Sheills and Jane Thompson
Shiells Jane age 42 at Castle W.10b 165- Deaths 3rd Quarter 1870
Monica
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Special Thanks to alll........
I would like to attach your usernames and or names to my list throughout its travels to my family and through the net to other familys.....
Thanks again......Im still working on it and needed to put it all together so I can keep it simple for releatives and others.....I went to our big library today.....There is alot of info out there.....lol
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SHIELDS FAMILY
Me
......Jason E Shields
___________________________________________________________________
My Father
James E Shields born 1951 married 1971 Linda Magoffin 1956...Parents Richard Magoffin and Ramona Cook
children
Jason 1971
___________________________________________________________________
Grandfather
Edward Shields born 1925 married 1947 to May Phillips Shields ...1921-2005...Parents Horace Phillips and Gertrude
children
James Shields born 1951
Robert Shields 1953 married 1983 Janet Hoh..
children
*Dau Heather Shields 1991
*Son Travis Shields 1995
________________________________________________________________________________
Great Grandfather
James B Shields born 1886-1961....married Winnifred 1895 -1/1/1930
children
John: 1/31/13-11/12/99
James
Alan: 5/22/16-5/23/93
Winfred: 10/09/19-8/06/87
Edward: 8/28/25
Robert:
Known addresses in Rochester, New York State for sons James and Alexander from Scotland
Ellis Island 1910 Info
James traveled on the ship "The Furnessia" 5/16/10 Glasgow to NY..Furnessia built in 1880 scrapped in England in 1911 he appears to be alone visiting his brother in law Hugh Reid....He describes himself as 5'9 Dark complexion Dark hair and Grey Eyes...
Alexander Shields 26, married, telegraphist, Scottish, last residence: Glasgow
Contact in Scotland: Mother: Mrs Shields of 457 Rutherglen Road, Glasgow
Destination Pittsburg PA - Non Immigrant Alien
Hugh REID 30, married, Photographer, Scottish, last residence: Glasgow
Contact in Scotland: Brother in Law: John Shields of 451 Rutherglen Road, Glasgow
Destination: Rochester NY
In 1910 Alexanders returns from Glasgow for the last time on "The Columbia" 3/27/10 Glasgow to NY..Built 1902 renamed Columbella 1914..Columbia in 1919 later scrapped Italy 1929...He travels with William H. Reid born 1880.....Known as Hugh on manuscript.....Brother in Law from Scotland to John Shields his neighbor on John Street...
Address on Manuscript
Alexander 127 Alexander Street Rochester NY
James 127 Alexander Street Rochester NY
Willaim Reid(Brother in law) 127 Alexander Street Rochester NY
______________________
The USA addresses
1910
Alexander 286 Reynolds St....
James 286 Reynolds St
Willaim Reid(Brother in law) 286 Reynolds
1911 or 1912
James 148 Bartlett St
Alexander 129 Maryland
William Reid 183 Main ST West
1913
James 147 Bartlett
Alexander 123 Maryland
1914
James 240 Jefferson Avenue
Alexander 1038
1915
James 240 Jefferson Avenue
Alexander 381 Sawyers...works @ 431 Sawyers
1916
James listed as married to Winnifred 626 South Avenue
Alexander listed as married to Catherine 35 Jefferson Avenue
1917
James Shields & Winnifred 6.5 Orleans St
Aleaxander & Catherine 35 Jefferson Avenue
1918
James Shields & Winnifred 37 Nellis Park
Aleaxander & Catherine 35 Jefferson Avenue
1919-20
James Shields & Winnifred 2 Harlow Park
1923
James Shields & Winnifred 486 Exchange St
1925-26
Alexander & Catherine 162 Caledonia St
James Shields & Winnifred 18 St Clair St
1927-28
James Shields & Winnifred 297 Reynolds St
1929
James Shields & Winnifred 163 Tremont St
_____________________________________________________________________
Great Great Grandfather
Peter Blackie/Bleakie Shields 1851-1902 ..married Ellen Nute Shields 1856-1913...Parents John and Elizabeth Nute..Tranent, Haddingtonshire
children
William J 1876
Janet 1881
Elizabeth 1883
Alexander 11/21/1884-6/17/1969
James 1886-12/7/1961
Peter 1887
Mary Jane 1891
George 1893
Arthur 1898
Known addresses of family in Scotland
___________________
Blythswood, Glasgow St David, Lanarkshire 1891
89 John ST. in 1891
84 John ST. in 1901
457 Rutherglen Road in 1910
451 Rutherglen Road in 1910
In 1901 Scoland - 451 Rutherglen Road is occupaied by a William REID
_____________________________________________________
Great Great Great Grandfather
George Shiells 1828-September 1881..Unmarried to Janet Blackie 24th Oct 1830 -1867...Parents Alexander Blackie and Janet Henderson
children
Peter Blackie Shields 1851-1909ish ..Myles Farm..Tranent East Lothian.
George Shiells later married widow Jane Thompson( 1828-1870)in 1864 she died in Septemberish 1870.Newcastle T 10b 33 England 1870
children
James Shiells..1865-
George Shiells...1867-
John Shiells 4/1870-7/13/1870 Black Callerton, Newburn, Northumberland, England....**Possible reason for mothers death**
______________________________________________________
Great Great Great Great Grandfather
John Shiells 1795-3/1878...married Mary Nisbet 10/13/1822 - Westruther, Berwickshire parents George Nisbet and Martha Hart..
children
George SHIELS chr 6 Aug 1827 Chrichton MDL..Died 9/1881
Alison SHIELS chr 1 Jun 1823 Crichton MDL
Andrew SHIELS chr 16 May 1825-1884ish..Born in Crichton MDL...He later Married Isabella born 1841 in Winlaton Durham
children
*Son: John SHIELLS 1877, b Newburn, Northumberland
*Son Andrew and/or Andre SHIELLS 1883/1884 b Newburn, Northumberland
*Dau: Mary Elizabeth. SHIELLS 1880 , b Newburn, Northumberland
John SHIELL chr 6 Apr 1830 Crichton MDL
Elizabeth SHEILLS b abt 1835 Crichton MDL (not on IGI)
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The issue of the name of George's wife, given that he shows as a widower in the 1871 in Black Callerton.
Ambly has found a death entry for a Jane Shields in 1870 in the right district for Black Callerton. There is a also a submitted entry on IGI which shows a marriage for a George Shields and a Jane Thomson in 1869 in Black Callerton, Newburn. Nothing else to verify this info at present.
Regards.
Monica
Marriages Jun 1864
Shiells George Newcastle T 10b 33
Thompson Jane Newcastle T10b 33
The two nephews above James and George in 1871 in Black Callerton, Newburn (sons of George?):
James Thomson 70, head, schoolmaster
Robert Thomson 29, son, tailor,
Ra James Shiells 6, grandson, b. Newburn
George Shiells 4, grandson, b. Newburn
Mary Ann Swond 60, housekeeper
1881: B Callerton Farm (2) , Black Callerton, Northumberland
Ref: RG11 / Piece: 5099 / Folio: 125 / Pg 13
Head: Andrew SHIELLS 55, Farmer Of 363 Ac Employing 6 Men 5 Women b Scotland
Wife: Isabella SHIELLS 40 , Farmers Wife Winlaton, Durham
Son: John SHIELLS 3, b Newburn, Northumberland
Dau: Mary E. SHIELLS 1 , b Newburn, Northumberland
Brother: George SHIELLS , 53, Farm Serv 2 Assistant to Herd (Ag Lab Indoor) , b Scotland
Nephew: James SHIELLS 16 Scholar, b Newburn, Northumberland,
Nephew: George SHIELLS 14, Scholar, Newburn, Northumberland
Emily Nute Christening: 20 APR 1873 Thrapston, Northampton, England
Parents: Mother: Bessie Nute
1901: Blythswood, Glasgow St David, Lanarkshire
Ref: 644/7, ED 16. pg 7 - Household Schedule 35
Address: 89 John Street
Head: Bessie NUTE 49, Corporation Domestic, b England
Dau: Emily THOMSON 28, b England
Grand-Dau: Bessie N THOMSON 8, b Glasgow
Grandau: Jessie THOMSON 6, b Glasgow
Grandau: Jane H THOMSON 4, b Glasgow
GrandDau: Emily N THOMSON 2, b Glasgow
Plus, 2 Boarders: Mary WHITE 25 born Ayr, and Maggie HUGHES 44, b Glasgow
1901: Blythswood, Glasgow St Paul, Lanarkshire
Ref: Parish 644/7, ED 19, pg 4
Address: 84 John Street
Head: Peter SHIELDS 50, Wood Sawyer, b Tranent, Haddingtonshire
Wife: Ellen Nute SHIELDS 45, b England
Son: WIlliam J SHIELDS 25, Law CLerk, b Glasgow
Son: Charles SHIELDS 24, Lip?? Assistant Agents (assistant) , New Kilpatrick, Invernesshire
Dau: Janet SHIELDS 20, Stationery & Gatecenick??? Asst , b Glasgow
Dau: Elizabeth SHIELDS 18, Ceyah?? Agents Assistant , b Glasgow
Son: Alexander SHIELDS 17, Telegraph Message, b Glasgow
Son: Peter SHIELDS 13, Scholar, b Glasgow
Son: James SHIELDS 11, Scholar, b Glasgow
Dau: Mary J. L. SHIELDS 10, Scholar, b Glasgow
Son: George SHIELDS 8, Scholar, b Glasgow
Son: Arthur J SHIELDS 3, b Glasgow
Neice: Elizabeth STEELE 49, General Servant Domestic, b Coatbridge Lanarkshire
Erk......
I just realised - Bessie NUTE married widower John GIBSON the 67 year old House Painter in beginning of March 1904 .1901, before the Census was taken on 31st....
Here we go - now I'm really getting bothered! I am ferverishly hoping - that some names and ages are getting a bit twisted , and Jason, perhaps investing in the original image off SP will sort it out....
1901: Blythswood, Glasgow St David, Lanarkshire
Ref: 644/7, ED 16. pg 8 - Household Schedule 40
Address: 89 John Street
Head: John GIBSON 64, House Painter, b Greenock RNF
Wife: Ruth GIBSON 62, b Ireland
Dau: Elizabeth GIBSON 23, Envelope Maker , b Greenock RNF
Margaret BARNETT 8, b Glasgow RNF (sic - aka Glasgow in RNF ?)
___________________________________________________
Wow there is some connections here.......A story once again....Too many twist and tangles for me to put together right now......Tomorrow my brain will figure it out
Jason
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Im guessin in 1901 Peter Shiells wife Ellen Nute Shields of 84 John Street had a sister Bessie Nute 89 John st who had a child Emily Nute Thompson 89 John St who married Georges Shiels brother in law Robert Thompson...Whos family earlier took care of more of Georges kids after he died.....Meanwhile Mrs Bessie Nute flirted with neighbor John Gibson at 89 John ST and married....
-
Hi Jason
I wouldn't get too excited ;D about the 2 appearances of the surname THOMSON - one in Glasgow and one in Northumerland......it's a very common name all over........I am guessing you don't actually know the forname of Emily's husband....
Lets look logically:
We think George SHIELDS born abt 1828 married a Jane THOMSON. in 1864 in England.
We think Jane died in 1870 in England, leaving her widower with young 2 boys.
We think these 2 boys are in the houshold of their maternal Grandfather THOMSON in 1871, and also in the house is possibly their uncle, Robert THOMSON born abt 1842.
Ellen SHIELLS nee NUTE (we believe her husband to be the illigitimate son of George) had a sister, we believe, named Bessie NUTE.
We believe Bessie NUTE had a illigitimate daughter in England in 1873, named Emily NUTE.
Emily - by now in Scotland - married a man named THOMSON in 1892*(?) He was - apparently, dead by 1901.
In 1892 our Emily NUTE was about 19 years old.
In 1892 that Robert THOMSON would be about 50 years old.
Did Emily NUTE really marry her aunt's husband's iiligitimate-father's brother-in-law......who was 30 years her senior ?? Seems unlikely to me....stranger things have happened I guess, but .....
SP - via a free search - has the marriage indexed for Emily NUTE to a THOMSON in 1892 Lanarkshire. I can't seem to get the search to return me even the initial of his forename - you would have to get the cert to find out who he was. NUTE is an uncommon name, as Monica pointed out - so we can be quite confident (99.99%) this is our Emily's marriage.
Lateral thinking is great fun, and a valuable tool - but the proving of a lateral thought to be true is better fun - that proof coming from as relaible documentation as we can find, preferably from more than one source. ( even the disproving is OK, as a positive negative is as also good to have!). Having gotten so many new names wishing to set root in your Family garden it's now important I think, to look at them one by one and gather all you can on each. By doing that, you will undoubtedly unearth surprise connections , confirm connections and find lost people on the way (my personal favourite bit!).
Scottish certificates post-1855 are a genalogist's dream for the UK. And SP has them reasonaly priced to purchase on-line - as you have seen, many leaps can be made with a few strategic certificates. You will know this when you start getting English Certs, which are by far less informative in general and (gulp) if you ever have just casue to delve into things Irsh..... ;D The plus side for English is that Civil Reg. started in 1837.
Cheers
AMBLY
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....Emily Nute's husband was called WILLIAM Nute......
Jason, I'm sure this was just the speed of hand, but missing from your list of children to Peter and Ellen is probably (without having verified the birth certs) the following children who show as 'uncle' from the transcript in 1891:
Charles 11, Scholar, b Kinghtswood, Dumbartonshire
John 10, Scholar, b Glasgow
I think then you have a full list of their children, or as close as we are likely to get.
Regards.
Monica
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Hi Monica ;D , Jason
William THOMSON and Emily NUTE 1892 Lanarkshire - and today I can get that on SP Index.....tried all the 'normal' names last night, incl "Will* and it just would not come up! hmmm!
Anyway! what I did find....
1891: Blythswood, Glasgow St David. LNK
Ref: Parish 644/7, ED 32, pg 11 - Household Schedule 55
Address: 89 John Street
Head: Elizabeth URIBE 71, b England (abt 1820)
Dau: Bessie URIBE 37, Umbrella Coverer, b England
Grand-Dau: Emily URIBE 18, b England
Lodger: Maggie MINNER 27, Umbrella Coverer b Glasgow
Lodger: James MINNER7, b Glasgow
In the same Schedule Peter and Ellen are enumerated from Household Schedule 58. - and apparently will appear on the same page of images.
Not doubt the image will show the name is NUTE!!
The Lodgers may just be that - and they may be somehow family.
Their surname might be MINER - but - only a but - it looks kind of close to "MENNIE" too ...recalling that some 30 years earlier, Janet BLACKIE was married to a MENIE/MENNIE.....might be worth looking into at some stage.
Cheers
AMBLY
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Ambly, you clever woman for finding this :D
I haven't looked at the original image but we do have on SP:
1891 NUTE BESSIE 37 BLYTHSWOOD GLASGOW/LANARK 644/07 032/07 011
1891 NUTE ELIZABETH 71 BLYTHSWOOD GLASGOW/LANARK 644/07 032/07 011
1891 NUTE EMILY 18 BLYTHSWOOD GLASGOW/LANARK 644/07 032/07 011
Once again, 100 lines, never rely on Ancestry search results as being accurate..... ;D
Monica :)
-
...And from there, the deaths:
Mother: 1891 NUTE ELIZABETH 64 BLYTHSWOOD GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/07 0586
Sister: 1928 NUTE BESSIE GIBSON 76 ST ROLLOX GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/08 0465
Granddaughter: 1956 NUTE EMILY HOOK THOMSON 83 PROVAN GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/11 0581
And son from the 1861 Census in Cornwall...he really is called Jabez (I thought it was another mistranscription by Ancestry!):
1935 NUTE JABEZ M 79 GREENOCK EAST /RENFREW 564/01 0190
Jason, you must have this, but I will list for completeness:
1913 NUTE HELEN SHIELDS F 57 CATHCART GLASGOW CITY/LANARK/RENFREW 633/B0 0028
There are only 12 death entries showing in all of Scotland post 1891, including those above. You would think they were undoubtedly connected.
Monica
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Jason
Ambly and I have said a number of times how lucky you have been on your trails....and once again, another mystery resolved with the death of Ellen and Bessie's mother in Scotland with their fantastic death certs info. If Elizabeth had died in England, you would not have been able to confirm her parentage but with her death in Scotland, we now can....also clearing up for me the issue of Nute and Petherin .
Elizabeth is showing as widow to John Nute, iron stone miner (still not sure about whether she was actually married given she showed as unmarried on at least two censuses in England). However, her parents were William NUTE, farm labourer and Ann PETHEREN. Daughter Ellen reported her death in December that year.
Monica
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You gals are great.....Still seaching myself.....Wish I didnt have to work...Uuuurrrghhhh
(http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h184/f1rocco460/shieldsfamilymap-1.gif)
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WOW Jason - cool map. Haven't seen one like that before - looks like a world invasion by the Blaikie, Shields and Nutes.
Some more names and detail to add......
I think I have found Elizabeth in 1851, indexed under the name of METE. This post is getting a little long ::) to be jumping back and forth for reference, so I have included again the 1861 entry for the family below:
1861
Elizabeth Nute 44, head, unmarried, housekeeper, b. St Stephens Cornwall
Willice Nute 10, b. St Stephens Cornwall
Bessey Nute 8, b. St Stephens Cornwall
Ellen Nute 6, b. St Stephens, Cornwall
Jabez Nute 3, b. St Ives Cornwall
Charles Nute 2, b. St Ives Cornwall
Mary Jane Roberts 2, relative's child, Devonport, Devon
Address: St Ives, Cornwall
I think this is them in 1851 in St Stephens By Saltash Cornwall ~ still no sign of John Nute, the reputed husband:
1851
Elizabeth NUTE31 schoolmistress (didn't expect this) b. St Stephens - still unmarried :-\
John S,NUTE 5, b. St Stephens
Willis NUTE, 7 months, b. Devonport Devon
Stephen NUTE, 25, brother, agr. lab, unmarried, b. St Stephens
Possible birth entry for some of the children, can't see anything as yet for Ellen and Bessie:
Births Dec 1846
Nute John Stephen St Germains 9 114
Births Sep 1857
Nute Jabez Liskeard 5c 62
Births Jun 1859
Nute Charles Liskeard 5c 62
Thinking of a possible death for a John Nute Snr, these are the only ones coming up between 1855-70:
Deaths Dec 1860
Nute John St. Germans (Cornwall) 5c 21
Deaths Dec 1865
Nute John Tavistock (spans Cornwall and Devon) 5b 252
Deaths Mar 1870
Nute John 70 Totnes (in Devon) 5b 154 ~ probably too old but who knows
Monica
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Gee! That is some map!
Hmm, might have a go at one of them for my own tree :-)
Good find Monica on that METE one ;D The son - Bessie and Ellen's brother "Willice" .......was Wallace NUTE, I think......I can see him in England in 1881, 1891 and 1901. He gives Saltash as his POB in one.
Oh the tangled webs........ ;D
That now makes sense to me:
of : Bessie NUTE's marriage to GIBSON, which was registered in Cathcart RNF, yet the address of the Church was Cathcart Road, Glasgow and they lived at 89 John Street Blythswood, Glasgow City at the time....must be a splitting up of a town into 2 counties??
of: Ellen NUTE's marriage cert to Peter, stated her mother as Elizabeth NUTE, MS NUTE. And the 2 witness were likely her brother Jabez (still looks like James John to me) and sister Bessie.
I don't think Jason had the death of Ellen..I think Wendy and I were looking in Lanark and coming up empty. Monica , do you think the 1902 Death of a Peter SHIELDS in Lanarkshire is him, aged 52 - so born abt 1850...I can't work out the Parish though. (I was also concerned this could be the other Peter SHIELDS, a Riverter, b abt 1848 who was in Glasgow with a wife named Ellen in 1901)
Regarding the 1881 Census - we are missing Peter and Ellen, and now Elizabeth, Bessie, Emily and probably Jabez - by all accounts probably all on John Street? I found people on 89 John St. in 1881 but not them....then it has that Peter & Ellen's "Uncle" or son Charles, who appears to have been born in Dumbartonshire 1877-1880 - and their daughter Janet born Glasgow abt 1881....I]
Cheers
AMBLY
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I've hunted high and low for Peter and Ellen in 1881 on SP (gave up on Ancestry for that one) and can't as yet find them. Also searched England :-\ You would think though they were in Glasgow by then. Also searched for Nute (born anywhere) in 1881 Scotland and nada!
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Ambly, the death of a Peter Shields in 1902 has to be the right one ;D :
1902 SHIELDS PETER BLACKIE 52 KELVIN GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/09 1342
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;D ;D ;D How did we miss this Ambly (probably due to lack of sleep from late night searches ;))
1881
Henry Neute 21, head, iron miner, b. England ~ where's he sprung up from?!
Isabella Neute 19, wife, b. Dalry, Ayrshire
Elizabeth Neute 61, mother, b. England
Bessie Neute 28, sister, b. England
Emily Neute 8, niece, b England
Address: 112 Knightswood Rows, New Kilpatrick, Dumbartonshire
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I've hunted high and low for Peter and Ellen in 1881 on SP (gave up on Ancestry for that one) and can't as yet find them. Also searched England :-\ You would think though they were in Glasgow by then. Also searched for Nute (born anywhere) in 1881 Scotland and nada!
Didnt really search this one yet but John Shiells was born in Berwickshire I believe 1792ish.....He was a farmer with 435 acres in 1856........In 1786-1791 I have found on page 188 a Marion Shiells who was a I think farmers son in Berwickshire who married a servants daughter Jean Somerville..He was sent by his family to Jamaica..To come back to get a divorce from Jean SHiellslater .Interesting
Page 188
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Gee! That is
Regarding the 1881 Census - we are missing Peter and Ellen, and now Elizabeth, Bessie, Emily and probably Jabez - by all accounts probably all on John Street? I found people on 89 John St. in 1881 but not them....then it has that Peter & Ellen's "Uncle" or son Charles, who appears to have been born in Dumbartonshire 1877-1880 - and their daughter Janet born Glasgow abt 1881....I]
Emily I think was born in 1873 in Northamptonshire and Peter was possibly in the miliatary in Wales in 1871....Dunno....Ellen in Cornwall and connections to Devon........
Im thinking
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Wow.......
This is like one of the Crime shows......Very addictive....Once I get low on leads I will have to join you gals in other searches...If you need an extra searcher on something let me know.....Im there.....With all this searching....You gals feel like my sisters...........
Thanks
Bro
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Oh Goodie - glad it's him...Peter, was there a hospital in Kelvin district...rings a bell ;D
I have the 1881 Disc for Lanark on the Lowlands Disc (my Highlands Disc is broken :'( but I cannot see them on it either......
Oh, my stars! Just about to post about Jabex below, as you posed with the 1881 NEUTE ! Clever you! How indeed did we miss it? ;D ;DI can't believe we did actually!
And look at where they are...might be thinking again about that Charles SHEILDS - maybe Peter & Ellen adopted him.....?
Now Jabez...I can see him immediatelly in England 1871 (in Service)
This is him I think in 1901:
Haggs, Denny, Stirlingshire
Ref: Parish 476/2, ED 1, pg 40
Address Neuks Cottages
Head: Jabey NUTE 43, Coal Miner - Hewer, b England (abt 1858)
Wife: Edith NUTE 50, Post Mistress, b England (abt 1851)
Son: John NUTE 23, Signalman, b Old Kilpatrick Dumbarton (abt 1878)
Dau: Edith NUTE 17, Grocers Shopwoman, British Subject, America (abt 1884)
Hmmm - where is HE in 1891 and 1881.....!
Another tidbit.... I wonder if the NUTE son in 1851 Census, John S - is actually John James....and if this is him:
http://mariners.records.nsw.gov.au/1891/04/056bir.htm
Ship BIRKSGATE ...............to SYDNEY, New South Wales, 14th April 1891
No Passengers on this ship only crew - one of which is:
NUTE JAMES - CARPENTER age 44 of SCOTLAND - CREW
Cheers
AMBLY
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Bro!
Aint nothing like jumping in with both feet - Best way to get the low!
Browse the boards, pick on one and give it a go ;D
http://shrinkalink.com/21129
Link to that one you found re: Marion SHIELLS...
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Just as additional confirmation that the 1901 Denny entry for Jabez is the correct one, from the list of 12 deaths for Nutes on SP, mother and daughter by the look of it:
1935 NUTE EDITH DOBBIE F 47 GREENOCK EAST /RENFREW 564/01 0192
1937 NUTE EDITH HARRIS F 87 GREENOCK EAST /RENFREW 564/01 0343
Monica
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Oh Gosh.... in 1891, at 89 John St. Glasgow, were a John 42 & Isabella DOBBIE 49
Household Schedule 58. Same page as the NUTES and SHEILDS.....
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....then it has that Peter & Ellen's "Uncle" or son Charles, who appears to have been born in Dumbartonshire 1877-1880
Looks like Jabey/Jabez Ellens brother had a child John Nute born in 1878 Dumbartonshire looks like they might be traveling....
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Guys this is speeding up!
Ambly ~ what the connection with the Dobbies in 1891 :P
There does seem to have a gathering of the Clans (euphemistically speaking that is) in Dumbartonshire in the mid 1870s ~ I wonder what brought them all there. We always wondered how Peter had met Ellen, by the sounds of it, she was probably already up in Scotland prior to her marriage in 1876.
Peter and Ellen were certainly in Glasgow by Feb. 1881:
1881 SHIELDS JANET BLACKIE F ST ROLLOX GLASGOW CITY/LANARK 644/06 0261
Added: Address was 54 Albert Street
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So Peter in 1870 has lost his mother...His grandfather...Knows about his father George and has nothing to stay for....He joins the Military in Wales and meets his new buddy in 1871 Jabey/Jabez Nute....Ellens brother....He falls in love and lives with the Nutes and raises his family on the road from Wales to Glasgow along the East Coast.....
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I'm bushed guys ~ got to go to bed! Tomorrow, or should I say, later on today, of all things I have a funeral (my husband's great aunt who died at the grand age of 96) People flying in from all over the place...and I shall be bleary eyed 8) and tearful :'(
Monica :)
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Monica...
Sorry to hear the news......
Take a rest...And Thank You..If your eyes feel like mine....Oucchhh....
Prayers out to you and yours.........
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Parish of St Ive
Has also listed the same for 1861
56; Elizabeth; Nute; Head; Unmarr; 44; Housekeeper; St Stephens; RG9/1526/F85p10
56; Willie; Nute; Son; ; 10; ; St Stephens; RG9/1526/F85p10
56; Bessey; Nute; Dau; ; 8; ; St Stephens; RG9/1526/F85p10
56; Ellen; Nute; Dau; ; 6; ; St Stephens; RG9/1526/F85p10
56; Jabez; Nute; Son; ; 3; ; St Ive; RG9/1526/F85p10
56; Charles; Nute; Son; ; 2; ; St Ive; RG9/1526/F85p10
56; Mary Jane ; Roberts; Relatives child; ; 2; ; Devon; Devonport; RG9/1526/F85p10
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So far my favorite person in this is Bessie....She seems like a Supermom kinda like the one that keeps everything together between familes and connects to generations....Never anytime for herself.......
Well searching just now I think I found someone looking for info on Bessies daughter Emilys child named Bessie born after 1881 and before 1901......I think.....
Bessie had to be such a nice woman...RIP Bessie
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I just found a Jabez Nute age 50 coming for England in 1910 to Coal Creek Colorado.....He writes that he has been in the USA from 1882-1892....Looks like he is bringing his mother Cathryn....
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Me too, Monica - sorry to hear your news. As you say, a grand age indeed - but none the less sad when the time comes. God Bless!
Anne
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And Jason
Was that Jabez to Coal Creek on Ellis Island ? It's on there anyway....at least, 1 is - for 1911 travelling alone.....I saw it before I went 'orf with me 'edache before....
Did you also see, Helah Bessie NUTE going over in 1922>
She had a father and a brothe named William - and hailed from Millom, Cumberland - and a whole packet of Millom NUTES are on there at different times. She's in the US unmarried in 1930 with her brother.
With NUTE being a relatively rare name seeming to emanate from a particular area (Cornwall and Devon) it's always a good "One-Name" Study sort of name and no doubt a lot of them are related somehow.....there are heaps of hits if you Google, NUTE Cornwall for example...which you've probably done! I think the earliest one I saw was a fellow who arrived in, or settled in Portsmouth in the 1600's.
Cheers
AMBLY
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Thanks.....
Im off to search more tomorrow on how John Shiells got Myles farm.....Berwickshire is where John was born seems to be a popular place with the higher standing Shiells....If John is related to royalty there has to be a connection...
Best fit Ive seen is Marion could be the father of John or his Uncle....Year fits..Farming fits...And for me Marion seems a tad like George....Bad work and play habits..
I also still think John had a brother Alexander....Based on the web page I cant find again.........
Until tomorrow...CYA
Jason
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Jason
A word of caution as you head off to search for the previous generations of Shields. Records will start to become thinner on the ground into the 18th C. We've been working through the 19th and 20th C where information became more readily available through the start of official reg. in Scotland in 1855 (England 1837) and also, as important, censuses from 1841 which provide another route to be able to verify your info.
In respect of John Shields and his origins, with him dying in England, as mentioned, you will not be able to formally verify the names of his parents and will need to make informed assumptions (subject to you being able to find any other source such as the Old Parish Register entries). I suppose you could check whether he left a will in England following his death there (not sure as to how/where but I'm sure plenty of Rootschatters will).
From previous posts here, we have:
1. His census entries for 1841-71 where he shows a birth place of Westruthers and birth year c. 1795
2. Details of his marriage to Mary Nisbet in 1822, her father shows as GEORGE
- marriage/banns in extracted records: 13 OCT 1822 Westruther, Berwickshire and 13 Oct 1822 Channelkirk, Berwick
3. Children:
- Alison SHIELS chr 1 Jun 1823 Crichton MDL - Mary Nisbet's mother's name (?)
- Andrew SHIELS chr 16 May 1825 Crichton MDL - John Shield's father's name (?)
- George SHIELS chr 6 Aug 1827 Chrichton MDL - Mary Nisbet's father's name
- John SHIELL chr 6 Apr 1830 Crichton MDL
- Elizabeth SHEILLS b abt 1835 Crichton MDL (not on IGI)
Trying to put some flesh on these bones.
In respect of Mary Nisbet, there is a couple by the names of GEORGE Nisbet and ALISON Brown having children in Berwickshire in the right time frame:
1. ALESON NISBET Christening: 26 MAR 1786 Lauder, Berwick, Scotland
5. JEAN NISBET Christening: 10 FEB 1788 Lauder, Berwick, Scotland
2. ALISON NISBET Christening: 06 MAR 1793 Lauder, Berwick, Scotland
4. ISOBEL NISBET Christening: 09 APR 1795 Lauder, Berwick, Scotland
3. JANET NISBET Birth: 1799 Lauder, Berwick, Scotland
With the likely early death of Mary Nisbet pre 1841, we can only make informed guesses at this stage.
In respect of John Shields, again I would make a guess that his father was called Andrew which looks to be the name of his first born son (assuming they were following Scottish naming order).
There is a birth entry showing up on the OPRs as follows:
19/01/1794 SHIELS JOHN ANDREW SHIELS/ Westruther /BERWICK 756/ 0010 0104 (no mother's name given)
And one more:
04/04/1802 SHIELS JAMES ANDREW SHIELS/ Westruther /BERWICK 756/ 0010 0113 (no mother's name given)
There are some more births showing with father Andrew Shiels in Berwickshire, but not in Westruther so hard to connect at present without more info.
It might be worthwhile trying to track through the James showing above to see whether he died in Scotland and what info you could learn from looking at his death cert.?
Monica :)
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Myles Farm and cottages are still around today, in fact, Myles Farm continues to be a working farm by the look of it.
You can have a look at it (1854 map) on the Old Maps site at www.old-maps.co.uk - just key in co-ordinates 339100/671500 - surrounded by lots and lots of acres...... ;D
You can also look at it on one of the modern mapping site. I normally use google maps at http://maps.google.com and key in EAST LOTHIAN EH33 2LE for the post code. As you will see, it is slightly SW off Tranent.
Monica :)
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Wow...My Brain is mush again...Here is the latest
http://www.scotlandgenweb.org/readarticle.php?article_id=13
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1861 Census of families....
Pg. 7
Highfield Cottage
John THOMSON/head/m/29/ploughman/Moreham, ELN
Jane THOMSON/wife/27/Dirleton, ELN...((Makes Her born on abt 1834))
James THOMSON/son/3/Dirleton, ELN
Alison Y H THOMSON/dau/10m/Dirleton, ELN99
Highfield House
John WOOD/head/m/46/shepherd/Haddington, ELN
Janet WOOD/wife/52/St. Cuthberts, MLN
James ROSS/nephew/u/19/labourer in quarry/St. Stephen, MLN
Pg. 7
Highfield Cottage
Alexander KNOWLES/head/m/27/ploughman/Stenton, ELN
Lillias KNOWLES/wife/27/Whittinghame, ELN
(((AKA Lillias Shiells))Born abt 1833
Isabella KNOWLES/dau/4/Stenton, ELN
Alexander KNOWLES/son/3/Prestonkirk, ELN
Ann W KNOWLES/dau/1m/Dirleton, ELN
Alexander SHIELLS/brother in law/u/21/ploughman/Stenton, ELN
((Makes his birth abt 1840))
Highfield House
James BLACKIE/head/m/59/ploughman/Tranent, ELN
((Alexander Blackies Brother))
Euphemia BLACKIE/wife/52/Tranent, ELN
Euphemia BLACKIE/dau/u/18/ag lab/Tranent, ELN
Jane BLACKIE/dau/u/16/ag lab/Tranent, ELN
Helen BLACKIE/dau/12/scholar/Tranent, ELN
Congalton Toll
Andrew PRINGLE/head/m/68/toll collector/Haddington, ELN
Jane PRINGLE/wife/78/collectors wife/Edinburgh, MLN
John PRINGLE/son/u/48/gardner/Garvald, ELN
Jane SHIELLS/gdau/u/20/housekeeper/Stevenson, Haddington, ELN
((Makes her born 1840))
___________________________________________________
I took the name Lillias and search Latter Day Saints site and found this
John SHIELLS B: abt 1772
D: 16 Aug 1859
Nungate, Haddington, Scotland
M: 27 May 1797
Whittinghame, Haddington, Scotland
Married
Lillias (Lilly) FOGGO B: abt 1769
Duns, Berwick, Scotland
D: 5 Sep 1859
Nungate, Haddington, Scotland
Their Child
John SHIELLS B: 16 Apr 1802
Garvald, Haddington, Scotland
D: 20 Jun 1874
Northig, Morham, Haddington, Scotland
M: 14 Nov 1828
Whittinghame, Haddington, Scotland
Marries
Isobel or Isabella NISBET B: 31 Jan 1808
Stenton, Haddington, Scotland
D: 26 Sep 1876
East Gate End, Nungate, Haddington, Scotland
Their Child
Lillias SHIELLS B: 3 Dec 1833
Papple, Whittingham, Haddington, Scotland
M: 11 May 1855
Whittinghame, Haddington, Scotland
No other Children show but by using the info from the 1861 Census...Its says
Alexander is the Brother of Lillias Knowles aka Lillias Shiells
Born Abt 1840
________________________________________________
________________________________________________
So Im thinking...Shiells were good farmers and each families side had run on seperate farms near each other..........From this it looks like my George Shiells father John was maybe brothers of the other John Shields family listed above......The only old similarity is the Mairrage of both John Shiells to two different Nibets within 6 years and in the same area.......
Thanks
**EDIT**...I searched and Johns Father was John and Isabella fathers father was John so maybe having two children named John...Also Lillias is also a subsitute for the name Isabella........
Going to sleep now....Urrggghhhh
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Wow...My Brain is mush again...Here is the latest
http://www.scotlandgenweb.org/readarticle.php?article_id=13
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
1861 Census of families....
Pg. 7
Highfield Cottage
John THOMSON/head/m/29/ploughman/Moreham, ELN
Jane THOMSON/wife/27/Dirleton, ELN...((Makes Her born on abt 1834))
James THOMSON/son/3/Dirleton, ELN
Alison Y H THOMSON/dau/10m/Dirleton, ELN99
Highfield House
John WOOD/head/m/46/shepherd/Haddington, ELN
Janet WOOD/wife/52/St. Cuthberts, MLN
James ROSS/nephew/u/19/labourer in quarry/St. Stephen, MLN
Pg. 7
Highfield Cottage
Alexander KNOWLES/head/m/27/ploughman/Stenton, ELN
Lillias KNOWLES/wife/27/Whittinghame, ELN
(((AKA Lillias Shiells))Born abt 1833
Isabella KNOWLES/dau/4/Stenton, ELN
Alexander KNOWLES/son/3/Prestonkirk, ELN
Ann W KNOWLES/dau/1m/Dirleton, ELN
Alexander SHIELLS/brother in law/u/21/ploughman/Stenton, ELN
((Makes his birth abt 1840))
Highfield House
James BLACKIE/head/m/59/ploughman/Tranent, ELN
((Alexander Blackies Brother))
Euphemia BLACKIE/wife/52/Tranent, ELN
Euphemia BLACKIE/dau/u/18/ag lab/Tranent, ELN
Jane BLACKIE/dau/u/16/ag lab/Tranent, ELN
Helen BLACKIE/dau/12/scholar/Tranent, ELN
Congalton Toll
Andrew PRINGLE/head/m/68/toll collector/Haddington, ELN
Jane PRINGLE/wife/78/collectors wife/Edinburgh, MLN
John PRINGLE/son/u/48/gardner/Garvald, ELN
Jane SHIELLS/gdau/u/20/housekeeper/Stevenson, Haddington, ELN
((Makes her born 1840))
___________________________________________________
I took the name Lillias and search Latter Day Saints site and found this
John SHIELLS B: abt 1772
D: 16 Aug 1859
Nungate, Haddington, Scotland
M: 27 May 1797
Whittinghame, Haddington, Scotland
Married
Lillias (Lilly) FOGGO B: abt 1769
Duns, Berwick, Scotland
D: 5 Sep 1859
Nungate, Haddington, Scotland
Their Child
John SHIELLS B: 16 Apr 1802
Garvald, Haddington, Scotland
D: 20 Jun 1874
Northig, Morham, Haddington, Scotland
M: 14 Nov 1828
Whittinghame, Haddington, Scotland
Marries
Isobel or Isabella NISBET B: 31 Jan 1808
Stenton, Haddington, Scotland
D: 26 Sep 1876
East Gate End, Nungate, Haddington, Scotland
Their Child
Lillias SHIELLS B: 3 Dec 1833
Papple, Whittingham, Haddington, Scotland
M: 11 May 1855
Whittinghame, Haddington, Scotland
No other Children show but by using the info from the 1861 Census...Its says
Alexander is the Brother of Lillias Knowles aka Lillias Shiells
Born Abt 1840
________________________________________________
________________________________________________
So Im thinking...Shiells were good farmers and each families side had run on seperate farms near each other..........From this it looks like my George Shiells father John was maybe brothers of the other John Shields family listed above......The only old similarity is the Mairrage of both John Shiells to two different Nibets within 6 years and in the same area.......
Thanks
**EDIT**...I searched and Johns Father was John and Isabella fathers father was John so maybe having two children named John...Also Lillias is also a subsitute for the name Isabella........
Going to sleep now....Urrggghhhh
Alexander Knowles and Lillias Knowles are my ggGrandparents. Thought you might be interested.
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Posted by: regknowles
Alexander Knowles and Lillias Knowles are my ggGrandparents. Thought you might be interested....
________________________________________________________
Cool.......
Not sure if its the same Lillias...Just a guess....Also is a slight dead end for me.......Might be that the Alexander Shields and Lillias Shiells Knowles were related to my side of the Shiells family in that area.....Not sure but is another angle to find more about my family.........
Alittle more surfing the net and we might be related.....Thanks for posting...
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My Alexander Knowles born 26.9.1835 at Stenton. Married Lillias Shields 11.05.1855 Their children Isabella 1856 at Stenton,Alexander 1858 at Prestonkirk, Annie.W.1861 at Stenton,John Knowles 1863 at Stenton (my Great Grandfather),Robert Knowles 1870 at Athelstaneford.
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My latest found possible leads for my Shiels side pre 1795 using the Andrew as the fathers name combo......I know probably no connection..
__________________
On the birth of my ggggGrandfather John Shiells b. 1795 to whom..in Scotland.....??..
Seems kinda young but
John Shiell b. 1750 marries Agnes Allan b. 1754...Marries on 1775
Child....... Andrew Shiels b. October 3rd 1776
____________________________
Further back
John Shiels Marries Christian Tait November 8th 1755
Child
Andrew Shiels
__________________________
Andrew Shiels marries Janet Purdon 1732
children
James 1733
Isabel 1735
Janet 1736
Thomas 1739
Andrew 1744
---------------------------------
Even Further back
Andrew Shiels b. 1670 marries Elizabeth Bogell / Bogle b. 1674
Children
Agnes 1696
John 1698
Thomas 1701
Margaret 1702
Janet 1707
Andrew 1712
? Female 1704
Isabell 1709
_______________
Andrew Shiels b. 1702 M Elizabeth Nivine...August 4th 1727
Child.... John Shiels b July 8th 1729
____________________________
One more distant shot
Andrew Shiels b. 1665 England
child
William Shields B: abt 1691
OF Felton Northumberland England
M: 5 Jun 1712
Felton Northumberland England
Elizabeth Dixon B: abt 1692
England
Child
Andrew Shiels B: Jan 1727/0
Felton Northumberland England
M: 24 Apr 1757
Haltwhistle Northumberland England
Mary Lowes B: Jan 1733/0
Haltwistle Northumberland England
child
John Shields B: 1760
______________________________________
Probably nothing but kept me busy surfing 6 hours searching....
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Here the missing web page I couldnt find earlier....
John Shiels b. 1795 had a brother Andrew that helped sell while at Myles Farm.......
Bankruptcy Article.....
http://www.xeoxeo.com/491/
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Hi Jason
It's late here and I'm probably mis-reading this :P but isn't Andrew a son to John Shiells b. 1795, not a brother.
".. with concurrence of John Shiells, farmer, Myles, near Tranent, his father...."
Andrew does have the dispute with a brother (unnamed). Given that we only have three sons for John: Andrew/George/John and George was living with Andrew in England later on, then maybe the Andrew's dispute was with John who we haven't tracked through the censuses (and by the sounds of it, may have been living in Newcastle).
From the 1881 census entry that we already have (looking like he resolved his financial difficulties of the 1850s ::)):
1881: B Callerton Farm (2) , Black Callerton, Northumberland
Ref: RG11 / Piece: 5099 / Folio: 125 / Pg 13
Head: Andrew SHIELLS 55, Farmer Of 363 Ac Employing 6 Men 5 Women b Scotland
Wife: Isabella SHIELLS 40 , Farmers Wife Winlaton, Durham
Son: John SHIELLS 3, b Newburn, Northumberland
Dau: Mary E. SHIELLS 1 , b Newburn, Northumberland
Brother: George SHIELLS , 53, Farm Serv 2 Assistant to Herd (Ag Lab Indoor) , b Scotland
Nephew: James SHIELLS 16 Scholar, b Newburn, Northumberland,
Nephew: George SHIELLS 14, Scholar, Newburn, Northumberland
Monica :)
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After reading it a few more times your right Monica......
Seems like Andrew son of John brang this argument up in court on his fathers behalf(John Shiels).....But I believe that their seems to be a brother of John Living in NewCastle in or around 1856-1860.....I dont see Andrews brother George son of John Shiels being the brother that wouldnt pay up.............
Well its another bit of priceless info for now......
Thanks
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One more partial mention Ive found of the Andrew Shiells son of John @ Myles Tranent case..Page 122..
I couldnt connect their mention of continuation on page 131...Nor could I find anything else by searching Google Books...
http://www.xeoxeo.com/495/ (http://www.xeoxeo.com/495/)
I still think that what I read a month or so ago was the same John and Andrew against Johns brother Alexander maybe Andrew but I think the brother was Alexander.......
Im thinking it mentioned Myles Tranent and the date and year and argument appeared to be the same argument.. Possible details of the finest peaches and live stock raised/grown in that area and that the brother Alexander/Andrew sold and kept the money that caused the Bankruptcy....
With such details and names listed in this lost page Im guessing the publication date should have been 1856-58.......It had less legal jargon and more detail just on their quality of goods.......
But that online document I thought I saved and didnt...I went to post it online and copied the wrong url......Poooof then it vanished...I searched my PC the next day and couldnt find it.......Phew it had like a 1000 pages I looked at that night....
Ill find it again.........
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I hope I am not butting in here but I am from Australia and am looking for a Logan/Shiels connection in East Lothian. I am particualy interested to the family of Marion shiels Logan born ca 1833 daughter of John Logan and Catherine nee Jackson. I can find the family on the censuses until 1861 then Cathrine dies 1863 and I cannot find John or his death. They lived in Haddington and he says he was born Gladsmuir ca 1795. If anyone knows of a Logan Shiels connection I would be grateful. I have a Jane & Peter Logan born 1825 and 1830ish respectively supposed children of James Logan and Jane Brock. No other siblings known. Jane left Scotland 1848 and Peter went to US ending up in Aus. in 1852. Possibly on 1841 in Tranent Peter son of Widow Logan unable to find Jane. ANY help appreciated.
Robeena