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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Yorkshire (East Riding & York) => England => Yorkshire (East Riding & York) Lookup Requests => Topic started by: ednalou on Sunday 20 January 08 15:18 GMT (UK)
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I dont know whether this is the correct Yorkshire site, I do appologise if it is the wrong one. I wonder if anyone could help me please.
Sophia Finch married George Henry Cawkwell 1887 Partington, Yorkshire.
I have her on the 1871 census mother is Mary Bettle, Norfolk.
I believe Mary married a John Finch 1836 Bacton, Suffolk.
On the 1851 census Bacton John (orphaned) is living with his brother Charles.
On the 1841 census Bacton there is Charles (14) George (14) William (10) then John (5). I thought their mother was Sarah Finch but no mention of father.
The problem I have when I go on World connect Rootsweb, there are 2 John Finch, one mother is Sarah and the other one is Charles and Elizabeth. Both 1836 Bacton. when I have looked at this Charles, they had the same name sons and same dates has the ones I have, plus a Mary as a daughter, So could someone try and help me putting my John with the right parents.
I hope you can understand this, as I am not very good at explaining things.
Thank you very much
Regards
Gillian
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Yes, right place, just working through your information. You say you believe Mary ? born Bettle married a John Finch. Do you know Mary's maiden name? Do you have Sophia's birth or marriage cert with her father's name on it to be sure you've got the right one to start with?
Barbara :)
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Hi Barbara
Thank you for replying. No I dont have Sophia's certificates, but on bmd a John Finch married Mary Kelver. I think about 1857 at Sculcoates
Regards
Gillian
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Hello Gillian
Re 1871 census Mary Finch mother of Sophia is aged 34
also states she is the wife of a couchman.(husband not at
home-occupation?)
Could this be them in 1861 at Hedon Yorks.
John Finch 25 groom Suffolk Backthen?
Mary 23 Norfolk Beetley
Susannah 3 Yorks Hedon
Edward W 1 ..... .......
I would start looking for a marriage 1856 -57-58 ish.
Jackie.
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Hi Jackie
Yes I got that on the 1871 census. I believe Mary's maiden name was Kelver, married 1857 Sculcoates. Well thats what I think, unless I am barking up the wrong tree.
This tree is for my cousin and I think he is a bit lost. The only information I got from my cousin the name of his grandmother and grandfather, and I got a lot of the information of World Connect Roots chat.
Thank you for looking
Regards
Gillian
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Yes I've found the census you mention back to 1851 and can only see one John b. Bacton which is the orphan with brother Charles. Thery're all still parentless on the 1841 census. The thing you seem to be worried about is the two families on Rootsweb with son John, so if you give me a few mins I'll check out the other family back to 1841
Barbara
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Thank you very much for taking your time in looking for me
Regards
Gillian
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Here's the 1841 with the orphans :'( and all the other Finches in Bacton
HO1076/1023/2 fol.7 p.6
Bacton, Suffolk
FINCH
Charles 14 Ag. Lab
George 14 "
William 10 "
John 5 "
HO107/1023/2 fol.20 p.7
Bacton
FINCH
Charles 30 Ag. Lab
Elizabeth 34
George Alexander 17 J. Bricklayer
Mary Finch 10
HO107/1023/2 fol.25 p.16
Bacton
Sarah Finch 25
George " 4
So only one John. Perhaps whoever put the tree on rootsweb got the families mixed up. will check these in 1851
Barbara
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Hi
Unless im missing something..or maybe its a typo who is this Mary who married John Finch in 1836 in Bacton... ;) ;)
Jane
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I believe Mary's maiden name was Kelver, married 1857 Sculcoates. Gillian
Think it should have said John Finch born 1836 Bacton :)
At least that's how I read it, eventually!
Barbara
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Need baptisms for all these Finches I think!
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Ah yes Barbara that makes a bit more sense.....LOL..
Jane....nice but dim 8) 8)
Mary is indexed as Kelcy in 1851 but the image looks like either Kelvy or Kelsy
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Bapts on IGI - Just gives mothers name-Sarah.
Jackie.
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Hi Everyone
The Charles, George, William and John who parent is Sarah the christenings are on the IGI's
Charles 10 June 1827 Bacton
George 10 June 1827 Bacton Could these be twins
William born 4 November 1832 Bacton
John born 22 May 1836 Christened 9 July 1837 Bacton
Is this any help
Regards
Gillian
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Just reading about George Alexander.
On the IGI a Sarah Finch married a George Alexander about 1821 Suffolk
Could this be the father or any connection
Regards
Gillian
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Or it could be that Sarah is the sister of Charles finch from the 1841 with wife Elizabeth and the George Alexander who is with them......just a thought mind
Jane
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Is it possible that Sarah never wed?
My g.g.grandmother had 4 children-never married.
Jackie.
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I dont know. On the census's there's no mention of the boys having a sister called Sarah. Its like the blind leading the blind.
Thank you very much for looking
Regards
Gillian
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You've all been very busy while I had my tea :)
Here's 1851, which seems to indicate the father was Charles, as Charles is Jnr, which I didn't notice at first:
HO107/1795 fol.177 p.16
near Fords Green, Bacton
FINCH
Charles Junior head m 23 Agricultural Labourer Bacton
Harriett wife 22 Old Newton
Susannah dau 3 Bacton
Jane dau 1 Bacton
William brother orphan 18 Agricultural Labourer Bacton
John " " 14 Farmyard Boy Bacton
Barbara
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and here's Charles senior ??? So why were the 2 boys orphans? Because their mother died and Charles senior remarried - the census clearly states 2nd marriage, most unusual.
1851 HO107/
near the Pound, Bacton
Charles Finch snr head mar 44 Agricultural Labourer Bacton
Elizabeth " wife 2nd marge 48 Bacton
Never seen that before :D
Barbara
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Gillian
Sorry may have confused you, the Sarah I was referring to
was the mother of the boys (name on baptisms)
I also wondered about the Charles jnr, that means there
must have been a Ch.snr.
Did John Finch (1836) name two of his daughters after his
sister in law + niece (Harriet + Susannah)? a possible!
Jackie.
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I also wondered about the Charles jnr, that means there
must have been a Ch.snr.
Just answered that Jackie, here's the pic:
(http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/4769/1851finchcj8.png)
Barbaraand here's Charles senior ??? So why were the 2 boys orphans? Because their mother died and Charles senior remarried - the census clearly states 2nd marriage, most unusual.
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Could someone tell me what base born means. Because on Rootsweb world connect for William and John it is coming up as base born to Sarah
Gillian
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Base born means illigitimate
Jane
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I wondered whether that was what it meant, so that means William and John were illigimate
Gillian
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Looking on Rootsweb World connect, If you put in Sarah Finch Suffolk. One comes up, she was born 1800 Bacton and when you click on that, she has the boys I have plus Sophia and Mary Ann. The only difference in John Finch I have him born 22nd May 1836, but the John Finch they have is November, but all the other dates check out. Also there is a Sarah Finch on the 1841 census in a household with a Robert Flowerdew, but if this is the mother why wasn't she with her boys. There is a Sarah Finch died 1845.
Does this help anyone to try and sort out this confusion.
Regards
Gillian
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Hi Everyone
A Sarah Finch died 1845. Is this the Sarah, mother to Charles Jnr, George, William, and John. But if it is I dont understand why she wasn't with the children on the 1841 census.
Is there anymore thoughts, from Roostweb World Connect there is Charles married to Elizabeth Labon (2nd marriage) and apart from one all the dates I have matches the years of their children.
Thanks for looking
Regards
Gillian
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I have looked on the IGI and Elizabeth Labon married a William Alexander
1821 Bacton. On Rootsweb World connect Elizabeth Labon married Charles Finch (2nd marriage) could this be the same Finch family. It doesn't say when she married Charles. Nor could I find William's death. Then I am still wondering where does Sarah Finch come into the equation for this family,
Is this any help.
Sorry to bother all of you.
Gillian
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Hi Gillian,
Sophia finch was the grandmother of my wife, and she did marry a George Cawkwell if there is anything you want please contact me
Dave Harrison
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Hi Dave
Anything you have about Finch family would be grateful. I am unable to get onto my tree at the moment so I can look properly. But if you could look through my original message, to see if it is the same family. Also anything on the Cawkwells would be appreciated.
Thank you very much
Gillian
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Hi Gillian,
I looked at your original Message and all the other messages and find that they are definitely the same ones, you have been on the same journey that I have been on,I stopped at Sarah on my tree as I found it was very difficult to get back further, although I have a Sarah marrying a John Finch on ny Genes-Reunited site It is wrong but the site will not let me remove them, I will start with Charles and work back to the Cawkwells It will probably take a couple or three messages so here goes.
First there is Charles, he had three brothers one of which was John which was my branch of the family. Charles married Harriet Sheldrake in Bacton I dont have the date, Their children were :-
Susannah Finch Born Abt 1847 at Bacton, she married Thomas Tofield and they had 5 children,
Jane Finch Born Abt 1851 at Bacton,
Julia Finch Born abt 1852 at Bacton she married Francis Windsor Hope at Greenwich had 1 child.
William Finch Born abt 1855 at Old Malden, Surrey. he died 1909 and married Emily Furney 4 Children
Elizabeth Finch Born about 1858 at Malden, Surrey.
Mary Ann Finch Born About 1861 at Malden, Surrey,
Sophia Finch Born Abt 1867 at Malden, Surrey.
Alfred Finch Born Abt 1869 at Malden, Surrey,
Thomas Finch Born Abt 1870 at Malden, Surrey.
Thats all I have on Charles and his Wife and offspring, Hope it`s Clear I will send Johns family next time If you have any questions don`t hesitate to ask and if I have Gone wrong anywhere please let me know
Regards Dave Harrison
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Hi Gillian,
Here we are again, I will now do John Finch , Wife and siblings. John Finch Born Bacton 22.5.1836
Bapt 9.7.1837, he died 14.3.1923 in Easington, East Yorkshire. He married Mary Kelver Bapt 1.1.1837
at Beetley, Norfolk. She died 22.7.1873 at Holmpton, East Yorkshire. John was described as a Horsebreaker. They had several children.
1 Annie Finch B 1856 D 1895. Annie married Charles Barr on 3.11.1877 at Holmpton. 7 children
2 Edward Finch Bapt 3.8.1861 in 1881 census living at 18, garden cottes, East Street,Epsom, Surrey
Unmarried
3 Susannah Finch, Bapt 3.8.1861 in Hedon, East Yorkshire.
4 Edith Ann Finch, Bapt 23.11.1862 in Hedon she married Soulsby Taylor 15.5.1882 in Hedon,
5 Herbert John Finch Bapt 14.2.1864 in Hedon, He married Frances Emily Cuthbert
6 Sophia Finch Bapt 20.11.1865 at Hedon, she died 10.4.1940 at Welwick, East Yorkshire and is buried in the Welwick churchyard she married George Henry Cawkwell B 1.9.1857 Bapt 20.9.1858 he died 9.11.1832 at Welwick Married 26.11.1887 at Hedon. they had 7 children
7 Harriet Finch B 1868, Died 13.12.1963. she married Edward Douglas on 25.12.1889. 3 children
8 Gertrude Finch B 1869
9, Henry David Finch Bapt 6.11.1870 at Holmpton, East Yorks, died 1875 at Holmpton.
10 Frederick John Finch Bapt 13.2.1873, Died 16.2.1873at Holmpton,
11 Ethel Rose Finch Bapt 31.8.1874, Died 17.1.1875 at Holmpton,
Regards Dave Harrison
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Hi Dave
Thank you very much for the information. I still cannot get onto the family tree at the moment, as I had to have it rebooted and the Family Tree maker I borrowed from my friend to load onto my computer, but she hasn't been able to bring it down to me. George Cawkwell, the surname differs sometimes, did you find that on the census's.
Thank you once again
Regards
Gillian
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Hi Dave
I have Charles Finch married to Hariett Sheldrake on 24th December 1846 Bacton. I got that off the IGI. Is this any help.
Regards
Gillian
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Hi Dave
I have an Agnes Finch born about 1863 Maldon, Surrey I have got her father and mother as Charles and Harriett. I got this off the IGI
Gillian
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Hi Gillian,
Here are Sophias and Georges Children
1 Alfred Henry Cawkwell Born 2.3.1889 at Weeton, East Yorkshire. He married Amy Capes at Winestead, East Yorkshire. 0n the 15.11.1913, Amy died on 7.6.1968 at Morpeth Northumberland
They had 2 children.
2 George Edwin Cawkwell B 16.8.1891 at Preston, East Yorkshire. Died 19.2.1961 at Los Angeles America.
3 Ernest Cawkwell B 2.9.1893 in Rimswell. East Yorkshire. Died 13.4.1985 in the Patrington District. He married Effie Lawton who died in Welwick 22.5.1926 at Welwick they had 1 Child
4. Minnie Evelyn Cawkwell B 24.12.1896 in Welwick, East Yorks. She died 5.4.1989 in North Shields she married Thomas Baxter and they had 7 Children.
5 Ivy Clarice Cawkwell B 19.3,1898 and she died 1984 at Newcastle. She married Ernest Sykes, They had 2 Children.
6Edith Mary Cawkwell, B 6.9.1900 died in Welwick 4.6.1983, she married John Bird, 2.6.1923 in the Patrington District the had 13 children.
7 William Clive Cawkwell B 14.2.1906in Welwick, East Yorkshire. he died on 18.5.1986 at Patrington
he married Gladys Downs on 14.3,1931, she was B 6.2.1913in Flinton East Yorkshire, and died 20.7.1989 at Withernsea Hospital , There are 4 Children one of who was Judith Cawkwell My wife.
We visit Sophias and Georges Grave every Christmas and place a wreath on her grave.
I can let you have the children if you need them.
Regards Dave Harrison
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Hi Dave
Thank you very much for all that information. The dates I sent you were they of any help. Could you give me your wifes dob and where she was born please.
Thank you once again
Regards
Gillian
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Hi Gillian,
I Havn`t received any dates from you it has gone astray or I could have erased it from my lists along with all the rubbish that I get, here is my E-maill Adress ( dave.e.h@btopenworld,com) it is a lot easier that way, you may be able to tell that I am not very good with computers.
Judys birthdate is January 17th 1943 she was born in Keyingham, East Yorkshire.
Regards Dave
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hi
hope this helps. i have not looked through all the replys you have recieved as i write this. the 4 finches you mention according to the parish records were all base born.
john finch ch.9 july 1837 of sarah base born d.o.b. 22 may 1836
george finch 9 july 1837 of sarah base born d.o.b 31 jan 1827
mary finch 9 july 1837(need to re check dates) of elizabeth base born d.o.b 28 june 1833(need to recheck this date)
mary finch ch. jan 6 1833 of charles +elizabeth late labon d.o.b 18 apr 1830
william finch 4 nov 1832 son of sarah base born
mary ann feb 20 1831 of mary finch
these are the only ones i noted around that time
in the igi there is a charles which i belive is sarahs base born child but for some reason i missed him out it needs to be checked
elizabeth labon had married william alexander in 1821 and i belive william was exported to australia with her brother george and james peachy. charles and elizabeth were my 4xggpand daughter mary my 3rd ggp. so far i have not discovered charles finches birth. nor have i found a marriage date for charles and elizabeth most likly because she was still married to william.
so there was a sarah and a charles in bacton with children born about the same time i expect they were brother and sister but have not proved this yet. unfourtuntly sarah children entrys do not give the name of a father but if the minister has put base born then 1 he either knew for sure she was a finch by birth which is most likly as the parish of her birth would be responsible for paying any poor relife and if she had gone to another parish to have children out of wed lock she would have found the parish council most uncharitable and they would have tried to move her back to were she come from. 2 of course she could have said my name is sarah finch when it was not in an adopted parish but there would have been no parish relife so she had to have been kept by some one. there for i think sarah was a finch by birth but as i have found neither of charles or sarahs christening this is only assumption.
judy
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the reason for the census recording a charles sr and a charles jr is very simple . bacton is a small area and the census taker was simply just discribing the difence between the two. if i am right and charles and sarah were brother and sister then charles jr would have been charles sr nephew!
we all have come across two people with the same name i am sure just think if you had to write down details then do some more notes on some other people remember something you needed to check would it not have been eaiser to have added a way of how to remember which is which. be it verbale or in note form we often refer to people in this sort of way when you talk about them 'oh you know little john , not big john' .i know i have done it.
judy
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Hi Judy
Thank you very much for that information.
Regards
Gillian
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hello i think we are related my gggrandparents are Sophia Finch and George Henry Cawkwell but do not no any info about them any info will be much appreated
email markcullen_09@hotmail.co.uk
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I have sent you an email
Gillian