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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Oxfordshire => Topic started by: Julieharris on Wednesday 16 January 08 22:35 GMT (UK)
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Hi
Can anyone tell me where Watts Yard was? I am pretty sure it was somewhere alongWoodstock Road. I am referring to about the 1880's.
I have tried to look for it but of course it is no longer there...or is it?
Many thanks
Julie
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I typed in google Watts Yard Oxford. It came up with Paper Works Woodstock Rd 11 Watts Yard St Giles Oxford.
A Sarah Harris has put on the people that used to work in Paper works Oxford.
Hope this will help a little.
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Toby
In fact it is that very Sarah Harris that I am researching!
The Paperworks was were she worked and 11 Watts Yard was her residence.
Thank you for taking the time to have a look
Julie
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i have looked very carefully on an 1876 map and 1887 but i cannot see it >:(
i get the impression that the road nearest to st giles such as it is now was then called St Giles Road west and Woodstock Road started north of St Marys House.corner of Bevington Road
Dj
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Hi DJ
Yes it is a bit of a mystery!
My gr3 grandmother Susannah Ewers lived at 10 Watts Yard, Woodstock Road according to 1881 Census. Next door at no 11 was her sisters Charlotte Hutt and Sarah Harris.
The reason I am trying to trace Watts Yard is that a few days ago i was contacted by someone who had in their pocession a family bible dating back to 1834 with a family of Harris's recorded in it. He has no connection with the bible having been given it by his father some 10 years ago.
It has turned out that the bible was that of my gr3 Grandfather Robert Harris b.1824. Charlton on Otmoor. He said his father had acquired the bible some 20 odd years back when he undertook a house clearance in Woodstock Road, Oxford. He can not remember exactly where only that it was by St Edwards School, Woodstock Road.
When I did a trace on Robert Harris, I found that 3 of his daughters (as above) lived in Watts Yard, Woodstock Road (1881)!
So I am now trying to track down Watts Yard to see if the bible was indeed found in the family home or to find out how it got their.
The man with the bible turned out to only live some 12 miles away from me and kindly offered to 'hand it over'. This evening I collected in, it is 174 years old and full of my family history. How wonderful is that I am over the moon :D
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HOW wonderful- that truly is a superb story. i used to live very near to the WOODSTOCK rd -
i have ancestors in CHARLTON on OTMOOR also.
happy to help if you want any help as OXFORD research is where i know best.
dj
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Hi DJ
Thanks for your help....I live about 12 miles from Oxford and have done quite a bit of research although I am no expert!
I note you have GRAY in your list are you related to Frank Gray - Oxford MP?
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Hi Julie,
As you have the family in the 1881 census in Watts Yard, Woodstock Road, it may help to trace where the Yard is or was, by checking the neighbours up and down the street.
It can be time consuming if you have a long road but you may come across a landmark or recognizable street corner which still exists today which will help you narrow down where Watts Yard is/was.
It may still be there today under a different name.
I've done this (it's fun) with reasonable success and followed the enumerator's path on a modern day map.
Good luck.
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Hi Ruskie
I tried a few pages back and fourth but found nothing but Woodstock Road is a very very long road. I will do as you suggest who knows what I will find.
It is strange that I can not find any reference to it at all on the web.
Many Thanks
Julie
ps. if I find it I will post a message :)
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I'm afraid to say I've spent many hours traipsing the streets ;) and making notes, but you just need that one little clue ... and it may be just around the corner. I hope your persistence pays off. Good luck.
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Hi again,
I got a bee in my bonnet about this and trawled the streets in 1881 and wrote down street names and house names. I think I've narrowed Watts Yard down a bit for you though I couldn't find it's exact location.
Go to www.old-maps.co.uk and type "st edwards school" into the search bar. This will take you to a map.
Zoom in till you can see the location of the school.
If you click on the bottom tab on the right side of the map you can enlarge it, though it's still not very clear, it helps a bit.
Just above the school you'll see Woodview Cottages, and above this Red Lion Inn. These are all on Woodstock Road.
A bit further up the Woodstock Road is Beaumont House, and above this again is Henley House. On the right, on the road between Beaumont House to the north and the Red Lion to the south there are some houses/streets/lanes. The words St John the Baptist are written over the area. Anyhow, I think that your Watts Yard is in that area.
Following the enumerator, south of Beaumont House is a Crappers Row, then Watts Yard, then Sitman's Row, then Black Horse Lane, Black Horse Inn, William's Yard, The Woodstock Arms pub, Brooks Zone, then down to the Red Lion Inn.
I've had a bit of a look some modern maps, but couldn't find a decent one. Will have another look later.
Hope this helps a bit.
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Hi Ruskie
Thank you very much for that I will take a look when I get home from work today to see if I can work it out.
Julie
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hello...i have to do that too as i went over 2 different maps yesterday for ages and found nothing....well done !!
;)
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i'm bemused about this ...why was it decribed as St Giles when it was north of Summertown ?? ???
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Still looking! Reading the Enumeration District 19 for Oxford although quite detailed has no mention of Watts Yard, but St Edwards School is mentioned. Map reading is not my best subject!!! Any help would be appreciated.
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Hi julie, i will look , now i get the fact that, that part of Summertown was part of St Giles...
used to live round there so it is a little more familiar to me.....
i had a lovely old house keeper as a child called Vinette Harris from Southleigh b 1896.....
i used to hear like a "fog" every at 8 am calling the workers... i wonder if the Paper works was still there in 1960's
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i'm going to look on 1891 census as no 20 is not the correct one and 19 does not mention it
altho i found where Ruskie mentioned it was not marked as Watts Yard on the British History on line map (which is much clearer)
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bingo...it's mentioned in 21 district 1891 .... but it looks like
Wyatts Yard....the "t's" were not crossed
it says.... all the houses on the woodstock road without distinct names but some times called Wyatt's yard Crappers row etc
5 rows of writing from the bottom :)
Debz
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I wonder what kind of housing was in these "yards"/"rows" etc. They do seem to have been quite small - not many families living there.
I wonder if, in particular, the yard may have been part of a larger building and similar to what we may today call a courtyard? If the building was demolished or altered for a different use, it's possible that the accomodation in the yard may not exist on later census. It may not even exist on maps (unless we can find one from 1881) as it may have had a change of name etc.
You can see how the enumerator walked along Woodstock Road, nipping into the yards and Rows to collect the census. In particular, I thought that "Brooks Zone" sounded very unusual.
Googling reveals that the pubs mentioned still exist along Woodstock Road.
Added after seeing Debz post: Great find! So much for my theory .... Debz, can you please direct me to where you found that - I'd like to have a look.
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Apparently there is a map called Acland's map of Cholera Oxford 1854...Crappers Row seems to be on that map...if my findings are correct..
as you say Ruskie...small dwellings virtually with no name...ideal place for Cholera ..at that period it seems that notices were put up to make people aware of the dangers of going to St Giles Fair...in the city.
the book was written by henry Wentworth.... Wentworth road is in Cutteslowe " up the road".
i have fab memories of St Giles Fair in 1964 ;D ;D
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Thanks DJ
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I'm looking at a map of Oxford City Parishes c1900.
St Giles is a parish that included areas each side of the Woodstock Road. The Northern boundary is where st Johns Road and Bevington road join/cross the Woodstock Road. This may narrow down the area of your search a bit.
Regards Maggie
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Thank you DJ and everyone esle for all your help on this.
My head is in a spin going round and round the streets!!!
I feel the house is not there anymore..but it still remains that the bible was found in a house in that area some 20 years back.
My gr gr grandmother (Susannah Harris) was the one who lived at no 10 Watts yard 1881 with two of her sisters living next door, but later in 1891 she was living in Grove St, North St Giles (Today I believe this is in the area of where Turl Street meets High Street) and then in 1901 South Parade, Summertown.
My Gr Grandparents Annie and Eli Ewers (Susannah Harris and Eward Ewers son) son in 1934 were living at 3 Chaundys Place, Oxford as a Baker. Today the Westgate Shopping Centre sits on this site.
Re-development is not a new trend I feel :-\
The bible seems not to have been handed down through my gr gr grandmother Susannah ...but one of her siblings..but who?? And who lived in that house that was cleared??
Once again thank you to everyone who has been helping me on my search
Julie
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Hi again
I have a 1939 Kelly's Directory of Oxford and have found the following entry:
256 Woodstock Road Harris Thos
250 & 252 Woodstock Road St Edward's School
This would appear to fit in with the house clearance info.
Best wishes
Maggie
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well julie,
it is a lovely find and story and as you say all of St Ebbe is now sitting under West Gate shopping centre.....sad that the original dwelling are not there , i used to live in Summertown , marston Ferry road and it was then a "dead" end through to the fields and river and so much fun :) :)
Now it is a fly over and only my old house stands... hey ho...progress and better living ....
I will keep Wyatts Yard / Watts yard in mind tho.
Debz
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Just for the info Julie
There was a Grove St in Summertown and there was a Grove Street in Oxford. Grove Street in Oxford was changed to Magpie Lane(still there) in the 1920's
Grove sounded apparently too much like Grope .... ::) how shocking ;D
Debz
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Thanks DJ for all your help.
I think I will try Maggie Jo's info to see where that leads me :)
I will keep all informed.
julie
Thanks Maggie Jo it sounds promising.
Will keep all posted.
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I have searched for 256 Woodstock Road for a Thomas Harris.
There was a Harris family George and Esther that moved from Northampton to Woodstock Road Oxford sometime between 1861 and 1871.
They had a son Thomas born 1845 Northampton. In 1901 Thomas's brother Anthony Harris was living at this address with his wife Elizabeth Bumpus (what a great name), Elizabeth was born in Stonesfield, Oxon.
Sadly I can find no link to my Harris family :-\
It could be that Thomas or Anthony somehow found/acquired the diary having an interest in the name and it was just a coincidence that my gr gr grandmother who is mentioned in the diary lived close by????? ???
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Update for all those interested. You have all been very kind and helpful.
It now appears that it could well be 256 Woodstock Road where the bible was found.
The father of the man who gave me the bible had this to say
He had a friend who worked in the kitchens at St Edwards School & this friend knew of the people in the house that was to be emptied & because as he happened to own a van at the time he was asked if he could do the house clearence, he says it may have been over 30 yrs ago!!
He cant remember much about the job except that it was on the corner of South Parade with Woodstock Rd,he says it was within 3 houses either way.
I have attached a map he sent me marking the position.
I have also been given a contact who is a direct descendant of one of the other sisters living in Watts Yard. Apparently she knows of Watts Yard. I have emailed her the details. Interesting.
The bible has also led me to another find. I have the PR's checked for my family in the bible and it has turned out whom I thought was the mother of my gr gr gr grandfather (mainly from census) was not! She died and was buried the same day as my gr gr gr grandfather was christened. I now have a whole new family to research!
Julie
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hi Julie
What an amazing story ;)...we'll have to help you find the new family now !!
;D
i used to live just round the corner from south parade, ( 40 years ago) there use to be a pet on the Parade which i loved going to see the animals. :)
Debz
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Another Update!!! This time its is very exciting ;D
The man who undertook the house clearance now believed to be over 30 years ago has explained that the house was on the CORNER of Woodstock Road and South Parade, the marking on the map posted yesterday indicates it could have been any where on the dark line.
My gr gr grandmother who used to live in Watts Yard and later moved to Grove Street in Summertown
, is showing on 1901 Census as living at no. 29 South Parade. I did a google maps search for 29 South Parade and BINGO it falls with in his marking!! I new she had not moved far and had stayed in the same area but my street knowledge let me down! (how did I miss that one ::)
I can not find a date of death anywhere for my gr gr grandmother Susannah Ewers (Nee Harris) b.1849 Charlton on Otmoor. Her husband Edward died in 1909. If anyone can help on this I would be most grateful.
From this I am almost sure that Robert's bible was indeed found in the family home of his daughter Susannah. But who was living there in the 1970's when it was cleared? Was it a decendant or had it been left there?
Does anyone have any ideas on how to proceed, to find out who lived in the house from 1901 onwards. I can eliminate my gr grandfather (Susannah's son) as I can confirm from cerficates he was living at Chaudys Place in 1934.
I could of course get 'all' marriage, death certificates etc for all of Susannah's 8 children as a last resort to see if one of them remained in the family home, but wondered if there was an easier way.
As always, many thanks for all your help on this.
Julie
ps. We still have to uncover the mystery of Watts Yard ;)
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Hello Julie,
Are the electoral lists an option ? i'm very good at tracing recent things ::)
i'll root around ....just think i was still in summertown in Marston Ferry Road in 1966 !!
Debz
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what about a phone book or post office directory ?
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i've tried phone books but they go by name and Ewers are plenty but not that address...
any initials for the Ewers that you can tell me ?
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This site may provide some useful ideas:
http://www.headington.org.uk/oxon/streets/street_research/index.htm
Anna
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Hi DJ
Susannah and Edwards Ewers Children:
Rose (Rose was illegimate and was infact Rose Harris but usually used Ewers)
Herbert
Eli Robert (my gr grandfather)
Emily
Harry
Cyril
John
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Thanks Julie....just thinking out loud here...
i notice that Edward's death is registered under Headington which is the other side of Oxford to Summertown , St Clements is part of Headington for example...
we need to find out if Summertown came under the registartion area of Headington... then we could get an idea if they still lived in Summertown
OR have i missed the plot ???
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My gr grandfather Eli Roberts birth 1882 shows as Reg District Headington.
In 1891 he is living with Susannah and Edward in Grove Street, Summertown.
The Reg District on this census is Headington.
I think this means that Summertown would have come under Headington.
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I have just checked the 1901 census of South Parade this also shows reg district as Headington.
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I've done all the years between 1965 and 1975 ...with all the names...no joy.
just so you can see the place better and a view other than arial ..search on Microsoft Live search on the maps section, type in 29 Sth Parade and you will see the house on the corner...
looks like the original house to me....it's better than the google maps.
Debz
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Thanks DJ
If you still got the phone book info at hand could you check Emily.
At a quick glance she married Thomas King (or poss Reginald Green) in 1906.
Worth a look :)
Will take a look at the house.
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no joy there either and of cousre not everyone had phones even in the '70's ::)
do you have any idea what year Susannah died roughly ?
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Unfortunately no!
I will scour my paperwork to see if I can find something.
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oh well....at least we know it's after 1901 ;D
course one could be very daring and write to the occupier of that address now and see what happens ? Summertown has been engulfed by Oxford now and it used to be a "sleepier" little place but now it is more trendyand cosmopolitan . 30 years is a long time but don't give up ;D
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i've started trawling thru the death records quarter by quarter from 1901
do you have
Eli Robert Ewers age 0 3a 598 Headington :(
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sorry !!! Q1 1904
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Yes I have that. He was Grandson to Susannah, son of Eli Robert and Annie Ewers.
Will do some diggin around tonight :)
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A huge thank you for Maggie Jo for the following...what a true star.
Kelly's 1939 Directory Private Residents Oxford shows
Ewers Wm. Ernest 29 South Parade.
So now we still have a Ewers living there in 1934, at the moment I need to work out who William Ernest was, it was not one of Susannah's children, but of course it may be a grandson!!!
We only have 40 odd more years to uncover up to the house clearance ;)
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There's a birth reg for a William Ernest Ewers, Dec 1904 Headington 3a 1022...
Anna
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Hi Anna
Yes I found that also, still trying to work out who's son he was, so far no joy
I may need to apply to the reg office.
Will keep looking for now.
Thank you
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Hi Julie
i also found a baby girl Ewers who was 0 years at death. I looked thru 1901 - 1906 so far. Have you already done it ? All the years i mean ? I will be goin to Oxford soonish with my daughter so if all else fails i will look for you when i go at the study centre.
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Hi DJ
I have seached all over for Susannah's death but no joy.
It was suggested to me that I find where Susannah's husband Edward Ewers is buried. We may find Susannah there too?? I think this is a good idea and will start searching for his burial. We know he died in 1909 and in 1901 he was living in No.29 South Parade.
Susannah had 6 sons and 2 daughters. I am still trying to trace William Ernest Ewers who was recorded living in the house in 1934. I think he may have been a grandson to Susannah. She had 6 sons and 2 daughters! I know it was not my gr grandfather as I have already traced him of course.
I think it would a whole lot easier as I have his death reg is to get his birth cert. May save many hours of hunting!
I really do hope a members of Susannah's family were still at No.29 when the house clearance took place, that would be so wonderful news.
Julie
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Hi update for anyone still interested in Watts Yard.
I am still searching for who was living at 29 South Parade in the 1970's to find out who was living there when the bible was found in the house clearance. I have got hold of a 1973 Kelly Directory and was gutted to find no. 29 is missing! It has South Side from no. 32 to 44 and North Side no.1 to 28!!! ??? ahhhhhhhhh.
Anyway back to Watts Yard. DJ posted this
"bingo...it's mentioned in 21 district 1891 .... but it looks like
Wyatts Yard....the "t's" were not crossed
it says.... all the houses on the woodstock road without distinct names but some times called Wyatt's yard Crappers row etc"
I did have a look at the time and found Crappers living in Watts Yard, Watts living in Crappers Row!!! ::) so confusing
Anyway I have found Wyatts Yard. Here is the listing from the 1973 KellysDir. I have mapped it on Microsoft Live Search.
So coming out of Oxford along the Woodstock Road....
250 Woodstock Road - St Emunds School
...here is South Parade
254 Wakenell Thos
256 Harris Cyril
260 Cox Alb
268 Red Lion PH
Alexandra Tennis Courts
272 Woodstock Arms
274 Scrogges E Newsagent
..here is Wyatts Yard
276 Corlatt Wm
276 Summertown Garage (Collier & Sims Prop)
...here is Regiment Road.
Julie
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Hi to those that followed by search of Watts Yard and the discovery of my gr gr gr grandfathers Robert Harris (1824) bible that was taken from No.29 South Parade in the 1970's following a house clearance. The gentleman who undertook the house clearance gave the bible to his son about 25 years ago.
I have managed to establish after some months of research that the bible was handed down to Robert's daughter Susannah Harris who married Edward Ewers in 1868. Susannah and Edward moved into No.29 sometime after 1891. After Susannah death in 1926 their son Herbert lived at No.29 and after his death in 1938 his son William lived there up until 1971. When William died in 1972 they had moved to Pennywell Drive (death cert). I am still trying to establish why after all this time the family moved from No.29 and the exact date but am almost sure that when they did move to Pennywell Drive they left the bible behind.
However here is the exciting bit. The gentleman that had 'looked after' the bible for some 25 odd years before finding a rightful 'heir' decided he would clear his fathers shed out and to his surprise found another bible! This time it was the bible of Susannah Harris (as above) complete with history. There are many artifacts in the bible including some embriodered bookmarks, peices of silk, stitchings etc.
I was very fortunate to have been united the first bible but am astonished to be united with another. Who says lightening never strikes twice ;D
Julie
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Oh Julie, This is fantastic news!!!! You are SOoo lucky!
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Thank you Ruskie... and of course everyone esle .. yes it is one of those moments that dont ever happen ;) but it did to me :) Thank you for all your help in the early search of Watts Yard..I passed the area the other day going into Oxford by bus (top deck of course) looking at No.29 made me shiver..so much history in that one house..if only one could go back in time a hundred years for a day ::)
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Bet you can't believe your luck. It must have been meant to be!
(I feel like that too. I'd LOVE to go back 100 years!)
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I have uploaded pictures of the first and second bible with artifacts found on my tribal pages website..if anyone is interested in looking at them please send me a private message and I will allow access. Once again thanks to all...somehow though I think the story is far from over ;)
Julie
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Hi Guys
Watts Yard rings bells for some reason. I researched one of my family lines (Crappers of St Giles and Summertown) a number of years ago, and spent weeks in the Oxford archives/local history library.
I'll dig out my notes and have a search. There was always mention of Crappers Yard (underneath Keble college), I'll look up Watts Yard.