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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Pollynation on Wednesday 16 January 08 10:23 GMT (UK)
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I have followed my grandfathers ancestry as follows.
Grandad - William Henry Cooper 1909-1981
born 15/1/1909 Newton in Makerfield to parents William Henry Cooper and Annie Higham.
G Grandfather William Henry Cooper married Annie Higham 25/4/1908 Earlestown. His father listed as Jacob Cooper, Stoker
1901 census RG13/3574/9/10 Jacob and William worked at sugar works http://home.clara.net/mawer/sugarccou.html
GG grandfather William Henry Cooper born 27/1/1878 17 Denby Street, Newton in Makerfield. Parents Jacob Cooper and Mary Jane formerly Atkinson.
Mary neglected to put on the birth certificate that she had been married twice previously.
Jacob Cooper married Mary Jane Pownall 9/10/1876 St. Peter , Newton in Makerfield Mary's father Thomas Atkinson, joiner
1881 census RG11/3786/81/36
Mary married John Pownal in 1872 and he died in 1874.
Her first marriage was to John Kynaston in 1860.
1871 census RG10/3867/8/9
1861 census RG9/2743/19/37
In 1861 census Mary is living with her parents Thomas Atkinson and Ann.
Although i have found Thomas and wife on both the 1851 and 1841 census, Mary is not listed on the 1851 and i cannot find her anywhere else. I also cannot find reference to her birth. I need her birth certificate to find her parents marriage.
Has anyone any suggestions on how to get further back along this line?
Thankyou in advance for helping
Best wishes
Pauline
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Hello Pauline
Have you got an age for Mary, and a birthplace? Those who haven't got Ancestry can't see the full census details. Could she have been born before civil registration began in 1837?
Is there a sibling who's birth you can find a birth reference for, which would give the likely parents to check with other documents. I've done that before, and managed to be sure via other routes.
Failing thjat, if you can narrow the area down enough, someone may be able to check another source.
Best wishes.
ERmms
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first, thankyou for your help. I have been stuck at this point for ages
Mary Jane is listed as 21 on marriage certificate in 1876.
1861 census age 19 birthplace Sutton, Lancs - living at Widnes, Lancs
1871 age 28 birthplace Sutton, Lancs - living at Sutton, Lancs
1881 age 42 birthplace Salton, Lancs - living at Newton in Makerfield, Lancs
1891 age 48 birthplace Saint Helen's, Lancs - living at Newton in Makerfield, Lancs
1901 age 57 birthplace Saint Helen's, Lancs - living at Newton in Makerfield, Lancs
she does have siblings on census returns they are
1841 census
Richard b 1831
Jonathan b 1836
Thomas b 1838
All born within the county
1851 census
Jonathan b 1836 b Liverpool
Thomas b 1838 b Penketh?
Margaret b 1844 b Sutton
Henry b 1846 b Sutton
Isabella b 1848 b Sutton
James b 1850 b Sutton
1861 census
James b 1850 b Sutton
Ann b 1853 Sutton
Joseph b 1857 Sutton
It would have been more helpful if they had unusual names, but as you can imagine there are lots of Atkinsons. Narrowing down a birth has been a problem.
Thankyou again for all your help
Best wishes
Pauline
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Hi Pauline
Thank you for those.
Two things stick out straight away.
Did she really give age as 21 in 1876 (marriage)? and is it definitely her?
Either there's a second marriage, or her mother was having children for a huge period, even for those days.
Actually, Thomas and Margaret are either side of her. How about sending for a birth certificate of one of them? Both as a last resort?
By the way, what was the evidence for her being called Mary Atkinson? What were her parents called?
Also, what is she calling herself in 1861 - her married or maiden name?
Good luck
Emms
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Just a thought.....but could Margaret be Mary...or have you found Margaret in later cencuses ??? ???
Jane
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Hi Emms in 61 she is KYVASTON and is living with her parents....
Jane
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Thanks to everyone who has taken a look at my problem.
Both Mary and Jacob have ages of 21 on the marriage certificate. I think this meant the vicar didnt ask their real age just put 21 to confirm they were of full age to get married.
The exact words on the certificate are
Jacob Cooper age 21 Batchelor, collier residing Newton, father Isaac Cooper Engineer
Mary Jane Pownal age 21 Widow, residing Newton, father Thomas Atkinson Joiner.
I dont have Margaret on any other census but i have found a death which could be her March quarter 1861 Prescot.
I am unsure about a second marriage. If there was one both women were called Ann, that is the only mothers name listed on all census images.
Not only did Mary name Thomas Atkinson on her marriage certificate, she is also living with him in 1861. She has also listed her name as formerly Atkinson on her childs birth certificate. Not proof positive that he is her father but until i find a birth certificate, i cannot say 100% he isnt.
Mary was born circa 1843 around Sutton/St Helens
She married in 1860 to John Kynaston. As Jane confirmed in 1861 she is listed under her married name. By 1871 she is still surname Kynaston, a widow with 2 children and her brother Joseph Atkinson living with her. She married John Pownal in 1872, they had one child, george, then John died in 1874. In 1881 she is married to Jacob, she has 4 children listed as Kinisten, one child as Pownell and 2 Cooper children. This poses another question. If by 1871 she was a widow, how could she have a child in 1872 to John Kinisten/kynaston/Kynasten?
I have spent many years going through lots of census's, parish records and anything else i could find.
I believe all the census images and certificates that i have of Mary Jane and have listed are all her, not someone else.
Thankyou again to everyone who is trying to help.
Best wishes
Pauline
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Hi,
The IGI has,
Mary Jane ATKINSON
Christening: 16 JUL 1843 Saint Helens, Lancashire
Father: Thomas ATKINSON
Mother: Ann
Regards
Daisy
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Thankyou Daisy
I have managed to track down a birth for her sister. It looks like i will have to apply for her certificate to confirm her mothers maiden name.
Thanks to all who tried to help.
Best wishes
Pauline
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Going on the baptism could this be her...
Mary Jane Atkinson q1 1843 Cholton Lancs vol 20 2?9
the page is very hard to read it could be 209 269 289
I cannot tell.
Tazzie
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Thanks Tazzie
Sorry but that is definately the wrong area. Thanks for trying to find Mary.
Best wishes
Pauline
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Given that you say the two older brothers were born in Liverpool, there are IGI baptisms for
Richard Atkinson 17/9/1832 St Peters, Liverpool - Thomas and Hannah
Jonathan Evans Atkinson 20/3/1836 St Peters, Liverpool - Thomas and Ann
May the Evans be a help?
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hi Mum44
I did see that on the IGI and the "Evans" might be the mums surname. Or a possible grandparents name. I do try not to rely on the IGI if possible. Although some of the information on there is correct.
I have found Mary's sister Isabella Atkinson born Prescot June quarter 1848. I am going to apply for her birth certificate. That way i will have paper evidence to "prove" her mothers maiden name hopefully.
Thanks for your help and again to everyone else who has tried
Best wishes
Pauline
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Pollynation
I have just joined the site, as I am researching my family tree with our surname Pownall, we are based in St.Helens and I have so far tracked down my Great Great Grandfather and Great Great Grandmother as John Pownall and Mary Jane Pownall. I sent off for the birth certificate of their only son George Arthur Pownall(my Great Grandfather) and it has arrived today :) He was born on 7/10/1873 at 6 Hood Street, Old Accrington; John Pownall was the father and Mary Jane Pownall late Kynaston formerly Atkinson was the mother.
So it seems that we share Mary Jane as our Great Great Grandmother. Not sure how the PM works on here, but I probably have a good deal of information on the Pownall side which I could share, equally I would appreciate any info you may have also.
This has been a surprise finding your information on here! PS who is the photograph of?
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Hi colinwaldron
I have just sent you a personal message, hope to hear from you again soon
Best wishes
Pauline
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Thanks for the PM Pollynation. I will reply via PM but as I am new on here it seems that I have to post 3 times before I can use the PM facility so please bear with me. Could I ask if you have been in contact with anyone else from the Pownalls side, as I know my cousin Susan did some years ago attempt to peice together the family Tree and got stuck at the John Pownall and Mary Jane Pownall branch.
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I don't remember being contacted by Susan. If it turns out i have spoken to her i will apologise now as i have spoken to so many people over the years. I do not have much information on John Pownall. This is because it was Mary's third husband who belongs to my tree. If you are new to family tree research i can help with information on how to find out where John was born etc.
As for the PM, i will bear with you till you can read it. There is some info on there that i would rather not put on an open board.
I will have a look through all my files to see exactly what i have on the Pownall's
Best wishes
Pauline
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Pauline
Thank you, hopefully I will be able to PM after this post and yes I am new to this type of research but have managed to get a fair way back sooner than I thought