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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Bedfordshire => Topic started by: maisiemiller on Tuesday 15 January 08 21:14 GMT (UK)
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does anyone know anything about a john goodwin and wife frances possibly woodriff born 1765 willington and died 17 dec 1833 in great barford. Their son james born 1791 in great barford died 22 dec 1870 in great barford was married to an ann. James goodwin was my g-g-g-grandfather, and I would be grateful for any information. Thanks.
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John and Frances had 5 children all baptised at Willington in the period 1792-1803 (see IGI at www.familysearch.org). I think they were born in Willington too, as in 1851 and 1861 James, living in Gt Barford, gives Willington as his birthplace.
There's a marriage on the IGI at Bedford St Paul in 1788 between John Goodenor Goodwin and Frances Woodroffe. Have you checked the parish register to see which parishes of residence were given, and to see if the witnesses provide any clues?
James and Ann had 12 children baptised in Gt Barford 1816-39, but I can't see their marriage on the IGI. The last of their children, George, was born after the start of civil registration, and on www.freebmd.org.uk there's a George Goodwin birth in Bedford Registration district (which includes Gt Barford) in the Dec quarter 1838 volume 6 page 16. If you order the certificate from the GRO it will show his mother's maiden name. She seems to have been born in Bedford 1795-7
David
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Good info on Great Barford parish records & census available here ....
http://www.sgibbs1.freeserve.co.uk/gtbarford/index.htm
cheers John
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Thanks John already done that but no information about John Goodwins parents.
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But as John and Frances don't appear to have a Gt Barford connection, other than Frances was buried there, I wouldn't expect there to be anything about John. The earliest Goodwin baptism in Gt Barford wasn't until 1816, and other than one in 1608 the first burial was Frances in 1833. So they don't seem to have been a Gt Barford family, and James looks to have moved there after his marriage
To find out more about John you need to be looking in Willington where his children were baptised, and before that the Bedford St Paul marriage entry.
David
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David I have found out that John Goodenor Goodwins name was John Gooden or Goodwin. I have sent for a copy of the marriage certificate from Bedford Archives so hope it will come up with more info. Will let you know
Maisie
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Doesn't a space make all the difference between a middle name and an alternative spelling! (I thought it sounded an odd middle name). Possibly the parish register had one name and the Bishops Trancript had the other.
If you're lucky the entry may give a parish of residence other than Bedford St Paul, and you may get a clue from the witnesses
Heres hoping!
David
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David I have found francis woodroffes parents as i found her christening in st pauls bedford as you suggested. Her parents were Richard and Ann
I also sent for George Goodwins birth certificate and it arrived today. Unfortunately Anns maiden was difficult to transcribe although i think it was BRIGMORE I have looked up Brigmores on the IGI and only came up with a Thomas Brigmore christened 22 sept 1751 st john Bedford. Any ideas
Maisie ::)
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What about marriage of James Gooding to Ann Prigmore on 24 Dec 1812 at Bedford St Paul; extracted entry on the IGI. The vicar misheard the name ?
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Hello johnP I think youve cracked it. Looking at the history of the Goodwins nobody seems to get the name right. The writing on the birth certificate is the original writing and a bit flowery. We have had the magnifying glass out but it could be Prigmore and Im going with that, although I now have to find her parents, so here goes. Thanks very much Maisie ::)
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Bedford St Pauls baptisms 1812 onwards are not extracted to the IGI, I am assuming that James & Ann did not wait 4 years until their first child baptised in 1816 at Gt Barford. So maybe there are other children ?
As to Ann, there's one chr St Cuthberts in 1796 parents Dickins Prigmore & Rebecca. If it turns out to be correct & D P is born 1757 Turvey - then I know a tree with him on it - not mine btw.
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Their first child was James my g-g-grandfather born in 1815 and then they has 12 more children so i think they must have been slow starters. Ill look furher on the Prigmores but any other info would be greatly appreciated
Maisie ::)
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JohnP I have found a tree with Dickens Prigmore on it. It goes right back to 1650s. Hope this is correct.
Maisie ::)
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Other people's trees should carry a government health warning! Useful as a guide, but check everything yourself.
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Good advice willdo
Maisie ::)
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David
Received the marriage certificate for John Goodwin and Frances Woodroffe dated 27 July 1788. It turns out that he was born in Kempston. I looked on the IGI and came up with a birth of John Goodwin born 17 November 1765 parents Nathan Goodwin and Anne. How can I make sure this is the same one. The year is correct, and how do I find Nathan and Anne. I have looked for their marriage but so far have drawn a blank. Any ideas?
Maisie ::)
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Why is it that the parish of residence is often shown on other folks' entries but rarely on mine?!! Careful though! The marriage entry shows he was of the parish of Kempston, which doesn't necessarily mean he was born there (but in this case he probably was!).
Who were the witnesses at the marriage? Do they provide any clues? Siblings perhaps.
There's a burial in Willington on 14 Apr 1830 of John Goodden age 64, which is spot on for a baptism on 17 Nov 1765. Checking the IGI, which for Beds baptisms pre 1812 is almost 100% extracted, there's no other John Goodwin which would fit, so I think you're pretty safe in assuming that he was the son of Nathan and Ann.
If you wanted to do a belt and braces job you could check Kempston transcript to see who the John Gooding was who was buried there on 3 May 1784, to make sure he wasn't son of Nathan, and while you're at it look to see if the banns were entered in the register (there's an IGI member submission of a marriage at Kempston on 6 Apr 1788 between John Gooding and Frances Woodriffe, and I wonder if this actually relates to the banns - although they are only valid for 3 months)
For Nathan and Ann's marriage check the IGI under GOODIN, rather than GOODING or GOODWIN
David
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Thanks David
Will check all this out and get back to you. As a matter of interest where do you find burials for bedfordshire?
Maisie ::)
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David
Found a marriage on IGI for Nathan Goodin and Ann Line 26th December 1763 at Kempston Bedford. Do you think this is the one and why has the name changed? If we go on like this I will be related to Harold Godwinson and you will have to call me ma'am.
Maisie ::)
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David
Have also found Ann Lines christening but it only says about 1742 in Kempston. It is the right one as it says she was married to Nathan Goodin
Maisie ::)
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No, I'd call you cousin! Harold's last wife Ealdgyth of Mercia was my 30xg grandmother, but they didn't have children. I descend from a previous marriage of Ealdgyth.
That was the one I found, and JohnP as well, and I'm quite sure it is the couple who were the parents of John baptised 1765. Names were spelt however the scribe thought the name was spelt, depending on what he heard or thought he'd heard! Goodwin, Goodin, Gooding, Gooden and numerous other variations depending on how yokel the Bedfordshire accent was!
I find burials on the NBI CDrom set, which is particularly good for Beds with coverage pretty complete up to 1850, available from the FFHS, who also have the same data online pay perview at http://www.familyhistoryonline.net/
The Ann Lines baptism about 1742 you can ignore - it's a member submission and any member submission which says "about...." means the member hadn't got a clue when or where the event took place. But the good news is that there's an extracted entry on 3 Jan 1742 at Kempston.
David
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Your Majesty
How on earth did you get that far back and how can you possibly get any further. How exciting. It makes me feel as if Im sinking in mud.
Maisie ::)
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No, I'd call you cousin! Harold's last wife Ealdgyth of Mercia was my 30xg grandmother, but they didn't have children. I descend from a previous marriage of Ealdgyth.
whats all that about David ? is that another line - as well as your claim that you have links to William the Conquerer & the Emporer Charlemange ! -
Maisie - I will check out the Kempston PR at the library at the weekend so see if there are any other details.
Regards John
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Thanks John I would be very grateful. It gives us mere mortals something to do.
Maisie ::)
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From the Kempston PR
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Marriage 26 Dec 1763 Nathan Goodin to Ann Line - no more details
Baptism 03 Jan 1742 Ann, daughter of Thomas Line
+ 25 Sep 1743 Charity, daughter of Thomas & Eliz Line
Baptisms of children of Nathan & Ann various spellings
15 Oct 1764 William Goodin - burial 17 Oct 1764 infant
17 Nov 1765 John Goodwin - burial 07 Apr 1774 inf, son of Nathan & Ann Godwin
23 Oct 1768 Elizabeth Godwin
04 Mar 1770 Catherine Goodwin - burial 22 Jan 1771 Kate, daughter of Nathan & Cath ? Goodwin
23 Feb 1772 Ebenezer Goodin
21 Mar 1773 Thomas Godwin
Other marriages
05 Nov 1764 James Purton to Eliz Goodin
16 Oct 1785 William Lovelidge (Biddenham) widower to Ann Goodwin, widow
Other Burials
03 May 1784 John Gooding (no further details)
18 May 1787 William Gooding , Pauper
26 Apr 1803 Nathan Goodwin, dairyman
So seems like the John Goodwin b 1765 is not yours as he was buried 1774.
I thought that the Ann Goodwin, widow who married Wm Lovelidge was the wife of Nathan, but he died afterwards. Was she the wife of John who died 1784 ?
more soon... John
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There is a marriage of a Nathan Goodwin to Sarah Berry on 12 Sept 1736 at Bedford St Paul. According to the PR, Nathan was a bachelor from Potsgrove & Sarah a spinster from Wootton.
This ties in nicely with a load of baptisms between 1737 - 1746 in Wootton of the children of Nathan & Sarah including son Nathan on 3 June 1740, plus another spelling variation of Mary GUDDING on 22 Apr 1739. Father Nathan was described as a farmer on the later baptisms.
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Kempston PR also had the Banns on 6 Apr 1788 of John Gooding to Frances Woodriffe of St Paul Bedford
Marriage at Bedford St Paul on 27 July 1788 of John Gooden/Goodwin of Kempston to Frances Woodroffe, spinster.
The baptism of Frances at Bedford St Paul on 21 Apr 1765 daugther of Richard & Ann Woodroffe, blacksmith. On some of their other children's baptisms father Richard is a whitesmith. (that's political correctness even in those days !)
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There is a baptism at Bedford St Cuthberts of Ann Prigmore on 15 May 1796 daughter of Dickins & Rebecca Prigmore. I noticed other children of that couple baptised 1789 - 1800.
Dickins Prigmore married Rebecca Elliot by licence at Bedford St Cuthberts on Feb 2 1783. He was from St Marys Bedford, - so most likely isn't linked to the Turvey Prigmores. On the marriage licence index he is described as being over 21 & 'a drummer in the Bedford Militia', Rebecca was from Biddenham, & yeoman John Lavender of Biddenbham stood as surety.
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That 1774 burial is a bit odd.
"infant" usually refers to a baby, not an 8 year old
But I am struggling to come up with an explanation
David
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Thanks all
That is a lot of information to get my head round but Iam very grateful. I will have to sit down and work it out. That death is a bit strange I must admit
Maisie ::)
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Right, these are my views,although they might not make sense.
Nathan Goodwin Sarah Berry marriage 12 sept 1736 Bedford St Paul is ok, but still no proof of him being Johns father as I cant find him in the IGI.
Baptism of Frances Woodroffe is fine with parents Richard and Ann sounds ok too.
Dickens Prigmore married Rebecca Elliott but you said they were probably not related to the Turvey Prigmores. When I looked through my files, I found a Thomas Prigmore of Turvey married a Mary Dickens 24 April 1743 with a son Dickens born 1757. The reason I think they are his parents is the name Dickens which is unusual but also his mothers maiden name.
What do you think?
Maisie ::)
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That 1774 burial is a bit odd.
"infant" usually refers to a baby, not an 8 year old
But I am struggling to come up with an explanation
David
unless the one that was buried was really Thomas ? chr 1773
Is the burial on the NBI ?
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Yes, John, and that says John as well (when I checked the NBI initially I ignored that one because of the infant description) so there was no difference between the parish register and the BT. I had also wondered if the PR might be in error, but it would take a lot of work to see if there is any subsequent record of Thomas, and even if there wasn't it doesn't prove the PR is in error. There was also a Richard Golden/Gooding and Sarah who baptised two children in 1760 and 1767, and were married in Kempston on 11 Oct 1759 - there's plenty of room for an unbaptised John in between the the children.
Maisie - the Nathan/Sarah (Berry) couple would have been John's grandparents. The older one was buried at Wootton on 21 June 1776, and his son at Kemspton on 26 Apr 1803 - John had found the Kempston burial.
David
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Morning, I have someone's tree from Genes Reunited with that Dickens Prigmore's family on it. I've just sent them a message to see if they know what became of him. But as David says some peoples trees are not fully accurate & must be checked out.
There are 2 other Dickins Prigmores in that tree from other family members, one of which born 1800 turned up in Felmersham & is specifically mentioned in Edward Arpin's diary.
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Interesting to note in that same GrU tree & verified on IGI, there is a marriage of James Wooding * to Ann Prigmore on 13 SEP 1784 at Turvey, Bedford. Ann chr 20 Feb 1763 was daughter of Thomas Prigmore & Mary Dickins (the same pair who had Dickens Prigmore).
* most likely the right name - as I've seen loads of Wooding/Wooden names on the IGI at Turvey.
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Funny you should mention the Woodings John. I have two in my tree, both married in Toseland Hunts so possibly sisters, both born Turvey but no trace of a baptism for either of them. Posthuma (odd name) b 1821 and Mary b 1816. But the IGI has no end of Turvey Woodings.
Neither are direct line so I've not lost any sleep over not finding their baptisms.
David
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David
Regarding the name Posthuma I have come across this before. Apparently the child usually a girl is called this when their father has died before their birth.
Maisie ::)
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David and John I have found what I think is John Goodwins christening 17th Nov 1765 All Saints Kempston, parents Nathan Goodwin and Ann.
Also Rebecca Elliots christening 14 April 1759 Biddenham.
Are these the right ones do you think or is my hair still in knots?
mAISIE ::)
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It's this John that John and I have been discussing, as there's a burial of John, son of Nathan and Ann in 1774. Until that's resolved you've got to assume the 1765 John died.
What were the names of your Johns's children - is there any naming pattern? I can't recall a Nathan amongst them though
I've not been following the Prigmore/Elliott lines so I'll leave John to comment on Rebecca.
David
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David
The only child I have is James Goodwin born 1791 married Ann Prigmore 24 Dec 1812 St Pauls Bedford and died 22 dec 1870 in Great Barford.
I sent for a copy of John Goodwin and Frances wedding certificate from Bedford Archives. The date was 27 July 1788 and the witnesses were James Woodroffe, John Lovelidge and Mercer Skevington. Strange lot.
Maisie ::)
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Witness names ? John Locelidge ? could he be related to the William Lovelidge (Biddenham) widower to Ann Goodwin, widow on 16 Oct 1785 ?
Rebecca Elliot was from Biddenham as per the marriage licence.
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JohnP
Yes you are right could be a relation, but Im getting confused is this the Ann Dawson who is the nother of John?
Maisie ::)
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Ann Dawson ? that's new to me Maisie - where did she come from ?
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It was John & Frances Goodwin's children that I was referring to; the ones born in Willington - Ann; James, Ezer, Jane & Charlotte
Which doesn't get us very far, although the first daughter could have been named after Frances's mother who was Ann. But the eldest son should have been Nathan if the traditional pattern was followed. So either they weren't following the pattern, or Nathan wasn't John's father.
David
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JohnP
Told you I was confused. I meant Ann Goodwin, Dawsons my name.
Maisie ::)
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I did think that Ann Goodwin was the widow of Nathan, & therefore John's mother, but Nathan died after the marriage to William Lovelidge - so she cannot be .
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In the Bedfordshire Muster Lists book there is an entry in Bedford Town Miltia Service Certificates 1800 - 1806 of Dickens Prigmore, re-embodied to serve 22 August 1801. His wife, Rebecca, Bedford St Cuthberts is receiving allowance from parish overseers; & John Stone of Bedford St Peters being the man originally balloted to serve.
There is also an entry in Bedford St Pauls Militia records of Thomas Prigmore, enrolled 9 April 1781, his family being wife Elizabeth & one child; & Joseph Gates of Sharnbrook being the man originally balloted. The service record & maintenance order were dated 2nd Dec 1782
The IGI has marriage of Thomas Prigmore to Elizabeth Wooding on 17 APR 1781 at Turvey, Bedford. Plus a baptism of Dorothy Prigmore daughter of Thomas & Elizaberth Prigmore at Turvey on 24 FEB 1782. So that ties in with the Muster List entry.
It could be that Dickens 1757 & Thomas 1755 were sons of Thomas Prigmore & Mary Dickins who married on 04 April 1743 at Turvey.
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Maisie
We share a common g-g-g grandfather so I am also trying to definitively establish the parentage of the John Goodwin who married Francis Woodroffe.
It's a bit difficult, as I live in Melbourne. My niece spent a week in Bedfordshire last year, but confined most of her research to time spent at Great Barford and at Bedford.
We are currently evaluating the possibility that one other of the sons of Nathan and Ann Goodin (Ebenezer or Thomas Goodwin) was known as "John" after their brother John died in 1774. What information (marriage or death certificates) do you have for these two?
(My grandfather was George Alfred Goodwin, the son of William Thomas Goodwin. He migrated to Australia in 1911 bringing his family with him.)
JohnArthur
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Hello John Arthur
Nathan Goodwin 1738 Kempston Bedfordshire married Ann Line 1742 Kempston Bedfordshire on the 26 Dec 1763 in Kempston.
Their children were
John 17 nov 1765 Kempston
William 14 oct 1764 Kempston died 17 oct 1764
Ebenezer 23 feb 1772 Kempston
Carherine 4 mar 1770 Kempston died 1771
Elizabeth 23 oct 1768 Kempston
Thomas 21 mar 1773 Kempston
I cant get any further with Nathan but I have more info on Ann Lines parents etc if you want that. I have info on George Alfred and his siblings also. Just let me know what info you want.
Maisie ::) ::) ::)
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As Kempston parish register shows the burial of John, son of Nathan and Ann, in April 1774 you can't assume that the John who married Frances Woodruff is the John baptised in 1765
David
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To my mind, the parentage of John Goodwin,who married Frances Woodroffe in 1788, is still not certain.
I believe he is the man who died at Willington in 1830, aged 64, which suggests he was born in 1765.
John Goodwin, the son of Nathan and Ann, was born in 1765, but is said to have died in 1774. However there is no certainty that he is the lad born in 1765, as the death certificate describes him as an infant?
The other apparent discrepancy is that John, if the son of Nathan, did not name any of his sons Nathan. One possible reason for this may have been a family rift.
I think there are 7 chances in 10 that John is the son of Nathan.
Another possibility is that John Goodwin, the husband of Frances Woodroffe, was the son of Richard Gooding and Sarah, who married at Kempston in 1759.
At the present time, I rate that possibility as 1 chance in 4.
The other possibility is that he was from Kempston, but raised elsewhere.
Possible, but unlikely.
I would appreciate anything unearthed about Ann Line and her family.
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Nathan goodwin was a milkman may be thats the clue, was john who died misprinted i dont know he to was my ggg grandfather nice to speak to you have full family tree if you need it
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going back to Jan 08 did you find out who john goodwins father was or could you not go any futher back than Nathan thanks
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Dear cousin Andy
Alas, I am still none the wiser in regard to the parents of John Goodwin. We just have to guess.
As regards the family line, my line extends to James Goodwin who moved to
Leeds from Great Barford in the 1840's, his son William, my great grandfather, his son George Alfred who migrated to Australia in 1911. Anything you have on this family would be greatly appreciated. Kind Regards
JohnArthur
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thanks for getting in touch, we are from Williams brother thomas 1821 good to hear from you are you down under or here in UK my email address is i will see what i can find for you, cous!
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