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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: vito321 on Monday 14 January 08 15:03 GMT (UK)

Title: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: vito321 on Monday 14 January 08 15:03 GMT (UK)
I found this in my grandads collection I know he was in Irish national army 1922-23 but this isnt him. I think its an irish national uniform but no idea of rank. ALso if anyone can clean the photo up and colour it I would be grateful. I f anyone thinks they recognise him get in touch.
I have included close up of badge
vito
Title: Re: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: vito321 on Monday 14 January 08 15:07 GMT (UK)
badge
Title: Re: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: liverpool annie on Monday 14 January 08 15:29 GMT (UK)



I think thats a bit big Vito !!  :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Found this on Wiki




Title: Re: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: liverpool annie on Monday 14 January 08 15:44 GMT (UK)

Here's a Recuitment poster for the Irish Army probably late 1920s or 1930s !
Looks like the uniform is  supposed to be green !! ( though it's not quite the same uniform is it ??) .....
you might want to put your photo on the photo restoration board Vito ..... those guys don't usually stray too far from there ... they mightn't see it !!  :D



Title: Re: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: vito321 on Monday 14 January 08 15:49 GMT (UK)
made the badge  a bit smaller and modified post. :P
Title: Re: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: liverpool annie on Monday 14 January 08 15:53 GMT (UK)


It's so big .... it just blends in with the background Vito !!  ::)

( plus I bumped me elbow twice on the wall .... trying to see it !!  :D )

Annie  :)
Title: Re: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: vito321 on Monday 14 January 08 16:10 GMT (UK)
badge again :'(
Title: Re: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: vito321 on Monday 14 January 08 19:39 GMT (UK)
here is badge cap with image overlayed fairly convincing match?

vito
Title: Re: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: Kamilla on Saturday 26 January 08 23:09 GMT (UK)
No idea who the guy is but the Sam Brown, long boots and FF (Fianna Fail) brass cap badge indicates he's an Irish Army Officer.
NCO'c (non commissioned officers) wear ankle boots and a belt without the shoulder strap.
The Irish Defense Forces personnell still wear the same badge on their caps and the same pattern is also on  uniform buttons.
'Oglaig na hEireann'. In gaelic means 'The Irish Volunteers'
Oglaig > (soldier) volunteer.
'na hEireann' > of Ireland.
Title: Re: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: vito321 on Saturday 26 January 08 23:26 GMT (UK)
Go raibh maith agat, Ta gailige beag agam agus ta me i mo mo chónaí i aontrim.

Any Idea of what rank or how I would find out???


Slan

vito
Title: Re: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: Old Warrior on Sunday 27 January 08 16:44 GMT (UK)
No idea who the guy is but the Sam Brown, long boots and FF (Fianna Fail) brass cap badge indicates he's an Irish Army Officer.
NCO'c (non commissioned officers) wear ankle boots and a belt without the shoulder strap.
The Irish Defense Forces personnell still wear the same badge on their caps and the same pattern is also on  uniform buttons.
'Oglaig na hEireann'. In gaelic means 'The Irish Volunteers'
Oglaig > (soldier) volunteer.
'na hEireann' > of Ireland.


Kamila's information is spot on.


From www.military.ie


The Defence Forces' Badge
The Badge design (common to all Corps and services and all orders of dress) is derived from the badge of the Irish Volunteers.

The Badge originally adopted by the Irish Volunteers October 1914 as the official badge of the organisation. The Centrepiece is formed of the letters "FF". These letters signify "Fianna Fáil". The word "Fianna" is the name of the ancient military organisation (Circa 3rd Century A.D.) forming what then corresponded to the standing army of the country. The word "Fáil" means "Destiny". One of the ancient names of Ireland was "Innisfail" (The Isle of Destiny) and "Fianna Fáil" thus signifies the "Fianna (or Army) of Ireland".

The two letters are surrounded by a representation of an ancient warriors sword belt and a circle of flames which represent the "Sunburst" – the traditional battle symbol of the Fianna. The words "Óglaigh na hÉireann" inscribed around the sword belt mean "Soldiers of Ireland". No particular significance is attached to the representation of the star which was included to balance the design.


If you mail a copy of the photo to  Irish Defence Forces Military Archives in Cathal Brugha Barracks. Rathmines Dublin 6, Telephone: + 353 (0) 1 8046457, I am sure that they will be able to assist very quickly in identifying the rank marking. Ranks and appointments were very confused in those days. Generals in the new army were often in their early 20s !!! Dashing out now but can supply further info later if required.
Title: Re: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: vito321 on Sunday 27 January 08 21:27 GMT (UK)
Thanks for all that I will forward a copy to military archives andwill post results when known.

vito
Title: Re: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: vito321 on Wednesday 30 January 08 13:20 GMT (UK)
Irish military archives say he is a lieutenant .

thanks for the tip


vito
Title: Re: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: Old Warrior on Wednesday 30 January 08 13:54 GMT (UK)
You are more than welcome !!

They are extremely talented nd helpfl however they are quite a small office ( 4 or 5 people).

For this reason, if contacting them with a query, try and frame your question so that it can be answered with a quick email or phone call.

As far as I know, their main function is to professionally archive military material.

I don't think that they have any obligation to assist researchers but they do their best for everyone within reason.

Put yourself in their shoes !
Title: Re: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: vito321 on Wednesday 30 January 08 14:22 GMT (UK)
I have photos of the national forces from my grandfathers stuff including some of his division/ company would they be interested??

vito
Title: Re: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: Old Warrior on Wednesday 30 January 08 14:25 GMT (UK)
I would say Yes.... but ask them !
Title: Re: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: tibnin on Saturday 13 November 10 19:55 GMT (UK)
I have cleaned the picture for you.if you can e-mail me your e-mail i will forward it on to you. Denis Murphy
Title: Re: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: tibnin on Saturday 13 November 10 20:02 GMT (UK)
hello vito.would you happen to have any of the old uniform
Title: Re: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: markharrison1973 on Tuesday 21 June 11 11:36 BST (UK)
Does anyone have the email address for the Irish Military Archives. I have 2 photos with similar uniforms to the above that I am trying to Identify. Thanks. Mark.
Title: Re: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: scrimnet on Tuesday 21 June 11 19:51 BST (UK)
That would be answer x2 on your post!!! ;D

Military Archives
Cathal Brugha Barracks
Rathmines
Dublin 6
Ireland
Telephone: (01) 497 5499.
Title: Re: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: markharrison1973 on Tuesday 21 June 11 20:12 BST (UK)
Sorry,
It was the email address I was looking for not the postal address.
I live in Scotland and would get my ass kicked phoning Ireland using my work phone.
Noticed someone in the previous thread said they had emailed them.
 ;D
Title: Re: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: scrimnet on Tuesday 21 June 11 21:12 BST (UK)
Looks like that there isnt an email addy....

http://www.military.ie/info-centre/military-archives

I think you may have to either visit or.....write a letter! :o

 ;D
Title: Re: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: Taidquest on Tuesday 21 June 11 23:21 BST (UK)
Hi Markyboy,on another page of Scrimnet's link there is a fax number,any use?
http://www.irishsoldiers.com/research/archive_list.htm

                                                                                          Anne
                   
Title: Re: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: markharrison1973 on Tuesday 21 June 11 23:45 BST (UK)
Thank you both for that I'll give the fax a try first off. :-)
Title: Re: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: Mick_Dolan86 on Tuesday 19 June 12 23:48 BST (UK)
Sorry,
It was the email address I was looking for not the postal address.
I live in Scotland and would get my ass kicked phoning Ireland using my work phone.
Noticed someone in the previous thread said they had emailed them.
 ;D

militaryarchives@defenceforces.ie
Title: Re: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: markharrison1973 on Wednesday 20 June 12 00:18 BST (UK)
Thanks Mick, I'll give that a try. mark
Title: Re: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: Mick_Dolan86 on Wednesday 20 June 12 10:13 BST (UK)
That type of rank marking was used for only a short time after the Civil War as far as I know, it might narrow down the date of the photo for you.
Title: Re: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: enda on Sunday 23 September 12 12:54 BST (UK)
Vito, this is a photo of my grandfather John Scally from Ballycastle in Co. Antrim. He was in the IRA in the north Antrim area and later went on to join what was then called the ''National Army ''in 1922 . Interested to know the connection and how your grandfather came to have his photo. I know he was an officer but not sure of what rank.
Title: Re: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: declan.carr on Sunday 23 September 12 18:03 BST (UK)
The name of the man in the picture is John Scally who was from Ballycastle in Co. Antrim he joined the volunteers in Sligo and then organized in N. Antrim and is pictured at the Glens feis with Roger Casement and also organizing on Rathlin Island.He remained with the IRA up until 1922 until after the civil and then joined the Freestate Army.https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151219447055470&set=o.194616493941081&type=1&theater https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151220303535470&set=o.194616493941081&type=1&theater
Title: Re: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: Mick_Dolan86 on Monday 24 September 12 13:11 BST (UK)
The rank markings in the coloured photo appear to be a single blue stripe which would make him a Second Lieutenant. The rank markings for officers were moved to the epaulette from 31st January 1923
Title: Re: irish army uniform id ? and colour clean up please
Post by: vito321 on Monday 25 January 21 14:09 GMT (UK)
Enda and declan.

Only coming back to this years later but can't compare the photo of John scally . Have you a new link ? Or photo