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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: aspin on Friday 11 January 08 21:51 GMT (UK)
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Kooky will enter her text later
She would like to know if anyone can locate this place where the wedding photo was taken
Elizabeth
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I don't know the place but what a lovely photo love the lady 3rd from left bottom row!! Iola
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This was entered in the Restoration thread on Wednesday it is larger for you to look at
I too think it is a lovely photo
Elizabeth
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Thanks Aspin!
I think there may be a Fisher family connection with this wedding.
My gt gr mother Matilda Fisher [nee Jones] is in the 2nd row immediately behind the happy couple. Her son Tom is to her left. My grandparents John and Elizabeth Clulo[nee Fisher] are the couple on the left just in front of the back row.
I do not recognise any one else, although the 2 men on the back row also appear in the album I have.
That's the one without a single name, date or label! :'(
Matilda died in 1920 aged 78. Her husband George is not on the picture, he died in 1906.
I suspect it may have been taken before the war. There is no shortage of elegant dresses etc and lovely flowers.
Maybe someone could hazard a guess as to a date, especially looking at the collars and ties of the male guests!
If I have a date, then I can have a look at all the possible marriages.
Kooky
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There are some nice fashion plates from 1900-1914 here:
http://www.marquise.de/en/1900/pics/1910/index.shtml
Those lovely flat hats and the scoop neck dresses look 1912 ish to me, compared to the fashion plates.
Now normally I would be very partisan & say that Manchester did everything first :D :D but I suppose its possible that Lancashire shops and dressmakers were a season or so behind the Paris/London fashions? So could be 1912 and into 1913?
1913 would make your Matilda around 71. Do you think she looks 71 in the photo?
:) Barbara
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Hi Kooky
I note Fisher, Manchester in your surname interests. I know of a pub\hotel in Prestwich area that looks a bit like that, but I would have to go back to be sure :) Any Prestwich, Sedgeley Park, Heaton Park, Bury Old Rd connections?
Cheers
tony
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Barbara, thanks for message. Yes I think Matilda looks 71!
Some lovely dresses in the website.
I thought pre war so 1913/14 would be about right.
I'll have a look at my Fisher notes to see who was at a marriageable age.
Kooky
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Tony, yes lots of connections! I was born in Heaton Park Road, Blackley. I lived in Prestwich as a child.
Which pub were you thinking of?
Kooky
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It's a pity we can't see if my grandmother was pregnant!
My mother was born in Aug. 1912.
I wonder who was looking after her!
Kooky
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Oh no ::) too quick for me ??? I've been struggling to remember the name :-[ It's on the corner of Bury Old Rd, and Something ( Butterworth?) lane opposite the entrance to Heaton Park and it it was a Holt's? pub, originally the home of the Holt's family ???
Senior moment's I'm afraid, but it does look familiar.
I'll let it stew for a while, till it comes back to the surface, if not i'll take a different route to work tomorrow to put me out of my misery ;D
cheers
Tony
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Butterstile Lane?
Kooky
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Or Whittaker Lane?
Kooky
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Butterstile Lane ;D
I can't remember the name of the pub ??? so can't do a search for it, oh dear! I can see it in my mind and on Google Earth, but can't for the life of me remember the name ???
Not going to let this beat me ;D
tony
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The Woodthorpe ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
http://www.pubutopia.com/images/pubs/31442.jpg
Now need to look at the side entrance, to see if it was the same as the one I remember :) and it probably won't be but helped to stretch the grey cells a bit :)
cheers
Tony
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You could be right! Thanks! :)
Kooky
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Ooh, Prestwich experts! Do either of you remember the post-war prefabs in Heaton Park? My mum & her parents lived in one. Erlmere Drive, at the Bury New Rd side of the park I think. Every so often I do a search for a photo of the prefabs & fail miserably.
I used to love visiting grandad's prefab as a kid, but unfortunately never got taken into the pubs so don't remember them! But I did think that the wedding photo building looked more like a hall or function-type place than a church (she said, desperately trying to return to topic ;D)
Barbara
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Yes my mother had a friend who lived in the prefabs. She had a daughter about my age and I used to go and play.
Unfortunately I can't remember their names :-[
Kooky
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Off topic I'm afraid .... but I lived in Liverpool prefabs !! :D
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I asked my friend and she said there was Co-operative Buildings in Prestwich ( that looked a bit like that ! ) that used to do receptions .... but wasn't sure of dates !! :) :) :)
Just a thought !
Annie :)
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Thanks for picture Annie - I'd better start a new thread on prefabs! ::)
Prefab bildings in Heaton Park as I recall were the round nissen hut shape.
:) Barbara
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Thanks a million folks :( I've just had a nap after the Herculean effort of remembering the Hotel and now you mention prefabs :( Yeah, they are in the old grey cells somewhere. And the round nissen shape ones have something to do with James Herriot - It shouldn't happen to a vet :o
All I have to do is remember :o
I think they were on Butterstile Lane.
Co op Buildings is interesting Annie as that stirs other memories ???
Hey ho :)
Tony
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Co op Buildings is interesting Annie as that stirs other memories ???
Hey ho :)
Tony
Don't forget this is a family site .... we don't want to know any details Mr H !! ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
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You keep him right Annie
How are keeping these days
I am pleased for Kooky getting this information
Elizabeth
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You keep him right Annie
How are keeping these days
I am pleased for Kooky getting this information
Elizabeth
Happy New Years Elizabeth ! good to see you !! :) :)
Poor Kooky .... we've gone 2 pages and we haven't told her anything yet ! ::) ::) :P
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Architecturally speaking ::)
;D
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;D
Memory working again, Bury Old Rd and SHEEPFOOT lane ;D
Tony
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Thank you all for help so far!
Have one or two possibles in Fisher info.
Also had a thought about the Woodthorpe. I wonder if they have kept records?
Kooky
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Just checked The Woodthorpe. It did not become a pub until 1925! ???
Previously the home of the Holt family,the Brewers.
Back to the drawing board!!
Kooky
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Could anyone find a picture of the Co op building mentioned earlier?
Kooky
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My dad's twin sister (on the left of my avatar) and their younger brother lived side by side when married after the war in prefabs, somewhere a couple of miles of Rochdale Road - would that be Heaton Park? If so, I remember them looking like the ones in Liverpool Annie's photo.
They loved them but years later were moved into high rise flats somewhere in Harpurhey, which they hated, because the entrances got dirty and smelly and they didn't feel safe.
Lizzie
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I lived in the prefabs right near where Barbara's family lived. We moved to 2 Kirkmere Drive in 1948 and lived there until we emigrated to Los Angeles, California in 1953. By the time I came back to visit in 1969 the prefabs were gone. Only the outline of them remained on the grass. I couldn't believe how small the house had been! My best friend in the prefabs was * Bond and I remember * Sedon?? I loved living there and I also went to Heaton Park Primary School and then Thomas St. School in Cheatham Hill. Anybody out there who remembers the prefabs and the schools?
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Hi Brianm
Firstly welcome to rootschat :D
and hello fellow pupil of Heaton Park Primary School, maybe a little later than yourself, I was imprisoned there mid 60's with Mrs Lee
Regards
Ken
ps
My mum her brother & sister all went to it as well Dorothy, Robert & Pat Hilton, do they ring a bell?
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Hello Ken. Thanks for responding. I'm afraid I don't remember your family. Actually, I liked going to Heaton Park Primary because it was in the park and was surrounded by a lot of beautiful nature. Thomas St. School was just the opposite. It was a blackboard jungle just around the corner from Cheatham Hill Road. Do you remember Bookbinder's Bakery? It was right near the school. At Heaton Park Primary I had a crush on Vivian Lee. I remember her name because it was the same as the movie star's. All the best
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I have been 're-visiting' my Fisher info.
I think I may have found two possible marriages for the wedding photo at the very beginning of this thread! They are both in the suggested time frame.
My gt gr mother Matilda Fisher had 7 children.
Her son Richard married Martha Blackburn in 1884. Their son Richard b. 1887 married Kathleen Davis June 1914 M/c.
Their son Henry married Annie Frith Sept. 1912 M/c.
Can anyone help me out here? ::)
Kooky
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Well Lancashire bmds have Richard Fisher & Kathleen Davis marrying at Manchester Cathedral - so does that location in the photo look like a town centre (or nearby) venue?
Going right back to the beginning, it does have the look of a Co-op building - those sort of flattened arches round the windows.
I still favour 1912 myself on account of the hats! :D :D do you know where the 1912 wedding took place? Fisher/Frith doesn't come up on Lancs bmds
:) Barbara
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The ref. is just M/c. I do not have the cert. Yet!
Kooky
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Good morning Kooky :D
I have to go out for the morning, but a quick root to the back of the bookshelf has revealed a jumble sale purchase from a couple of years ago "Wedding Fashions 1860-1980" by Avril Lansdell. I'm taking the book with me (I have to be a gallery attendant this morning and sit minding the exhibits in the college art show). So by about 1.45 this afternoon, I hope to be an expert in collars, necklines and spats
One line has me revising 1912 as possible date and moving forward a bit:
"middle class and working men wore lounge suits, usually dark (blask or blue) and carried trilby hats, the new smart wear of the ex-serviceman..."
so could be an immediately post-war picture then
:) Barbara
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Oh! There is another younger brother. I'll check him out too!
Thanks again for your interest!
Kooky
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The younger brother George b. 1894, was married to Gladys Westcott June 1924 Prestwich.
Is 1924 bit late for this photo?
Kooky
It cant be 1924 gt gr mother died in 1920!
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Picture here http://www.fashion-era.com/1920s/1920s_old_photos_weddings.htm of a wedding group from Cardiff, 1921, with very similar necklines and sleeves on the dresses, hat shapes, mens collars..
The book I've been reading says the best way to date an old wedding photo is to look at the bridesmaids, as their dresses would not be 'special' for just one occasion. They would have posh frocks, but ones they could wear for best later on. So their dresses would be of the current fashion for day wear. Skirts apparently got shorter and wider after the war (because women had been working and became used to moving about more freely, so the long hobble skirts from before the war had to go - and the bustle and corset arrangements).
So possibly 1918-1920?
Book also says that flowers were often carried by the bride, bridesmaids and the mothers of the bride and groom. So if we ever do find out who the happy couple are, you might be able to identify the older ladies on the front row as well :D
Barbara
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I would say that the two younger ladies in paler dresses and dark hats were the bridesmaids.
The stunning larger lady could well be a mother!
Kooky
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Kooky, I have just looked at your lovely photo and felt a niggling of recognition but I can't think where from ...so I'll have a ponder. My first thoughts were Whitefield Town Hall but now I don't think it is.
Perhaps it was a registry office marriage?
I'll ask 'me old fella' who was born in Whitefield which borders Prestwich and see if he can shed any light ;)
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After looking through my Fisher family stuff I am reminded that Sarah Ann Fisher married Alfred MORRIS. They had 3 sons George, Ben and Alfred between 1894 & 1899.
They could well be on this picture!
Kooky
Sorry did it again! :-[
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After looking at my Fisher family info. I now recall that Sarah Ann Fisher married Alfred MORRIS.
They had 3 sons George Lewis b. March 1894, Ben b. Dec. 1895 and Alfred b. March 1899.
They could well be in this picture!!!
Kooky
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Well remembered Kooky :D
I just found them on the 1901 in Harpurhey area of North Manchester, if that gives anyone a clue for location
They were on Crissey St. Not far from Queens Park (where the north Manchester Cemetery is).
Could the picture be taken somewhere near Queens Park?
Barbara
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That is they in the 1901 census. :)
I have just had a contact through Lost Cousins about this family.
I might yet find out whose marriage the photo was, and also of course where it was taken!
Kooky
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Very little is left of old Harpurhey, but more than willing to go hunting, if you come up with a location ;)
Wonder if it is the hall in Queens park - will have a nosey next week sometime
Ken
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Thanks Ken. I really have no idea where this photo was taken.
I just want to discover whose wedding it was!!!
I thought I might be able to search if I knew where the reception was!
I am in M/c for a couple of hours in a week or two.
I will have a look at M/c evening news or similar for wedding reports, deaths and obituaries.
As well as electoral rolls, etc.!!!!!!!!
Kooky
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Had a singularly unproductive time in the library :-\
I was hoping to find reports of weddings. I remember when the report told you what the bride was wearing, who the bridesmaids were, where the reception was etc. No joy!
Have now sent for a marriage for a Henry Fisher. Hope this is the correct brother!
ps why are the film readers so difficult to load and operate? Some have fixed focus and you can't adjust them! Grrr.
Kooky
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Have received marriage cert. for HENRY FISHER and ANNIE TRACEY.
Church was St. Augustine Newton Heath.
Does this give us a clue as to where the reception was?
The bride's father John was a baker. The bride's mother was deceased.
Kooky
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Hi Kooky
Nothing is left of St Augustines and surrounding areas - does the cert give any address's?
Ken
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Wonder if it is the hall in Queens park - will have a nosey next week sometime
Ken
oooppss still not done it
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Ken, bride and groom both residing in MALLON St.
I think it is Mallon St, the copy is poor and the writing very elaborate.
And don't ask me to post it, I've no idea how to do it!!! :-[
Kooky
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Have you not got around to that yet
See your still looking for that place where that lovely wedding picture was taken
Hope to see you soon
Elizabeth
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Malton St, on the very old maps - right near St Augustine's church.
So close to the church it looks like one of those addresses of convenience for the banns - but maybe not? And we're still quite near to Queens Park in this area.
:) Barbara
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Hi Barbara! You are right. It could be Malton Steet! The other 'ts' don't seem to be crossed either.
Hi Elizabeth! Hope to see you soon!
Kooky
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What year is the marriage cert? Its still bugging me about the age of the dresses and hats!
:) Barbara
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Sorry, it was April 1911, if this is the right one!
As I said at the beginning of all this, it has to be between 1906 when my gt gr father George died, [I was looking at the death cert. to check - he had lived at 9, St. Augustine Street and Richard Fisher, the informant, his oldest son, and also father of Henry, lived in Malton St. 8)] and 1920 when Matida died. She is central in the photo immediately behind the happy couple.
Said happy couple appear to have had 2 children, Annie and Henry!
Kooky
phew!
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Still no answer for you, but looking at your photo it looks more like a large house with bay window.
So to add some outside the box thinking - back then people did not just jump into cars and off the the best hotel, so they must have stayed within a short distance of the church and Malton Street - looking at maps for 1893 and 1939, I cannot see much in the way of Pubs etc apart from the wilson brewery just across the way.
Wilson brewery did have a modern looking social club from what I remember and the http://www.images.manchester.gov.uk/ website shows this, but back then was it in a different place within the brewery?
Something else to think about, could they be sat outside the rectory of the church? this aerial shows the church and a rectory at the back of it - the large building next to the church is a school.
Malton Street can also be seen on the images website.
Regards
Ken the hobo
JPEG'S REMOVED "BREACH OF COPYRIGHT"
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This makes more sense ;D
JPEG'S REMOVED "BREACH OF COPYRIGHT"
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So they might have organised a you-know-what at a brewery? ;D ;D ;D
No, the rectory for the venue sounds like a good theory. All the ladies have their bouquets nice and fresh - they don't look as if they've gone too far at all.
There are some lovely pics of the Whit walkers from St Augustine's on the Manchester images website. Shame they don't show the building!
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Thanks Ken! I think you might have solved this one! Wonderful :)
Barbara, I have looked on the M/c images site, you are right!
Kooky
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I have been digging about in the Fisher family BMDs. The witnesses on the marriage cert for Henry Fisher and Annie Tracey were Richard Fisher -probably his brother, and Matilda Hesketh. The latter puzzled me at first. Just found a marriage for Matilda and a William Henry Hesketh in 1909. She was 3 years older than Henry and had a son also Henry in 1913. Can only find that one birth, maybe he went off to war?
Just thought I'd share that!
Kooky
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In response to Brianm.... * Seddon is my mother, who remembers you and your family. She is now 67, and lives in Blackley off Victoria Avenue, she says your mum was called Faye and your dad Les?! And you had a sister with Blonde tight curly hair. She also remembers Vivian Lee, who she used to give the odd smack across the face to. Ha. Her mum was called Lily and her dad Jim, she thinks you went to one of her birthday parties?! She has fond memories of the school and does have a school photo, and I will try and put it on. She lived at 3 Kirkmere. She also remembers * Bond.
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Hi Jo
Looking forward to seeing your mum's school photo, as I had cousins who lived in the prefabs and I think went to the same school. One lot were called Murphy, the others Benson. Does you mum remember any of them.
Lizzie
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My Mum says she remembers a Danny and Ann Murphy ????????????????
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Here it is...
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My Mum says she remembers a Danny and Ann Murphy
Thanks for asking your mum. Wrong Murphys though. My cousins were all boys, I guess the eldest Tommy would be about your mum's age. I don't know what school they went to I was just guessing it might have been the same one, as they lived in the Heaton Road prefabs. None of them is on the photograph though.
Lizzie
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In response to Brianm.... * Seddon is my mother, who remembers you and your family. She is now 67, and lives in Blackley off Victoria Avenue, she says your mum was called Faye and your dad Les?! And you had a sister with Blonde tight curly hair. She also remembers Vivian Lee, who she used to give the odd smack across the face to. Ha. Her mum was called Lily and her dad Jim, she thinks you went to one of her birthday parties?! She has fond memories of the school and does have a school photo, and I will try and put it on. She lived at 3 Kirkmere. She also remembers Rodney Bond.
Hi just spotted this I lived at 5 kirkmere next door, I remember mr/mrs seddon but only the huge alsation they had.i thought I remembered brianm at 2 kirkmere but I would be only 6 years old when they moved. I do remember playing with someone at that address but I would have been 10 or older. there was a girl next door to me at 7 kirkmere called linda but cant recall her last name.this brings back lots of very happy memories. would like to know what year the picture was taken as I went to parkside cp school in mr Edwards class my mum was a dinner lady. regards keith hughes.
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Ooh, Prestwich experts! Do either of you remember the post-war prefabs in Heaton Park? My mum & her parents lived in one. Erlmere Drive, at the Bury New Rd side of the park I think. Every so often I do a search for a photo of the prefabs & fail miserably.
I used to love visiting grandad's prefab as a kid, but unfortunately never got taken into the pubs so don't remember them! But I did think that the wedding photo building looked more like a hall or function-type place than a church (she said, desperately trying to return to topic ;D)
Barbara
Hi Barbara I lived at 5 kirkmere dr I had friends I played with on erlmere dr and went to parkside school happy days regards keith hughes.
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I have just spotted MY wedding photo, with all the guests numbered, on a public member's tree in Ancestry!! ??? Sorry, not my wedding, but my copy of a Fisher wedding.
I wonder if they had "lifted" it from my post here on Rootschat?
Anyone else having a family copy, would not have had the red numbers, carefully added by a distant relative for me, on their copy, so it must have been taken from this post!!
Kooky
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I have just remembered that the numbered photo appeared in Genes Reunited, not on here! :-[
Kooky
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I think it happens quite frequently. I'm not sure what the legal position is if you post a photo then someone lifts it and posts on another site. If you look on Ancestry at random trees, you'll quite often find photos on various trees, which state underneath "originally posted by XXX" or something similar. Of course if it's been lifted from another site, there's no acknowledgement.
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Hi just found this picture of me taken outside my house 5 kirkmere dr on the heaton park prefab estate I would be about 8 taken at the back of the house looking towards the coal shed at number 3. we all had these in the garden plenty of room for coal and playing in. I think my dad was taking a picture of next doors coal shed and I got in the way.pity no pictures of the inside but I can still see the layout in my mind.i went to parkside cp school from 1952 to1959. keith.