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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: vito321 on Friday 11 January 08 21:43 GMT (UK)
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this is a photo found in grandfathers collection trying to identify uniform and a date if possible appears to have been taken in dublin?
Thanks for any information that migh help identify it.
have posted back and front of photo.
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here is photo
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Hi vito :)
I can't help with the uniform, but I can tell you that the card back is a standard design used by a lot of photographers - it's by Spicer Bros, London. This is an 1884 design but mostly used about 1888, and the last one I have seen dates from 1892 (from Roger Vaughan's website http://www.cartes.freeuk.com/time/back85.htm )
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thanks that helps home in on a date. ;D
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Nice photograph. The only discernable thing is that the name of the regiment is quite long judging by the shoulder title. If you have a scanner that has pre-scan you could try copying just his right collar badge at the highest resolution setting. Keeping it as colour will add depth to the scan. If your scanner doesn't have pre-scan you could do the whole thing at a high setting, then 'cut' the collar badge using something like Paint, then 'paste' it into a new file.
The picture 'looks' end of the 1800s/early 1890s. If you can get to Kew you can look for his papers - http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/militaryhistory/army/step4.htm. These are in alphabetical order so you can search for a short list of surnames. Each search should only take about 20 minutes, as long as it is not a very common name.
Ken
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Did try the scan at high detail but quality not much better I thought the collar badge might have been a royal irish rifles badge? anybody think it is or if rest of uniform is typical of a royal irish rofles uniform in 1890ish.
Thanks
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Hi everyone,
This is my first post here so I'd better make a wish !
The photograph was taken in Inchicore Dublin?
The mearest Barracks to Inchicore would have ben Islandbridge Barracks later known as Clancy Barracks and now being redeveloped having been sold by the DoD to a property developer in the last year or so. From defence.ie:
CLANCY BARRACKS
Clancy Barracks, formerly known as Islandbridge Barracks, dates from about 1857. It is sited on the south bank of the river Liffey and close to one of the most westerly of Dublin city's bridges, Islandbridge, formerly known as Sarah Bridge. The barracks has had a long association with artillery, cavalry, and ordnance.
The barracks was taken over by the Irish Army on the 15th December 1922 when a rifle company commanded by Captain Condon was sent to take over Islandbridge Barracks. In that Company was Captain Robert Fitzgerald who was the first Officer Commanding.
It was renamed Clancy Barracks in 1942 after Peader Clancy, a County Clare man killed during the War of Independence in 1920.
The barracks has been associated with various military events including the Crimean War, the Boer War, World War 1, and the 1916 rising.
As far as I know, the Queens Dragoon Guards were based there around 1870, but regiments in those days would have changed around in Irish Barracks every few years. There is a picture of an Adjutants Parade at the Barracks at http://www.qdg.org.uk/shop/qdg.php/products_id/664?osCsid=1c23fff685a4197800b37f799c6525f0 .
Hope this helps !
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I don't think the photo shows the uniform of the Royal Irish Rifles or any other specifically Irish regiment I'm afraid, based on facing colours. :-\
In the photo, the collar is a light colour (probably white? but maybe yellow, buff or something else light).
However, the facing colours of Irish regiments at the time:
Royal Irish Regiment - dark blue
Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers - dark blue
Royal Irish Rifles - dark green (rifle green?)
Royal Irish Fusiliers - dark blue
Connaught Rangers - green
Leinster Regiment - blue
Royal Munster Fusiliers - dark blue
Royal Dublin Fusiliers - green
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I was going to say that just because the barracks are in Dublin (perhaps...just where the photographer was based....perhaps he was peripatetic!) don't suppose that the parent regt is an Irish one....
Horseshoe shoulder titles were quite common prior to 1902, here is a close up of one of mine...
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l102/scrimnet/IMG_0159.jpg)
Also, the Northamptons (both battalions) were in Ireland at the right time , and the facings are the right colour!!!
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I don't think the photo shows the uniform of the Royal Irish Rifles or any other specifically Irish regiment I'm afraid, based on facing colours. :-\
In the photo, the collar is a light colour (probably white? but maybe yellow, buff or something else light).
However, the facing colours of Irish regiments at the time:
Royal Irish Regiment - dark blue
Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers - dark blue
Royal Irish Rifles - dark green (rifle green?)
Royal Irish Fusiliers - dark blue
Connaught Rangers - green
Leinster Regiment - blue
Royal Munster Fusiliers - dark blue
Royal Dublin Fusiliers - green
Were these the colours in 1880's
vito
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Why do you think this is not an irish regiment???
My relatives arounf the 1880's (assuming this is a photo of one of them) would have been based in lurgan Co armagh or Belfast more likely Belfast).
I also think that the lapel badge looks a bit harp shaped. but hard to tell.
vito
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maybe this inverted image is easier to identify shape of lapel badge?
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Hi Vito,
Those are the facing colours in the whole of the era you're interested in.
http://uk.geocities.com/neil182@btinternet.com/facingcolours.htm
I agree with scrimnet, it's just as likely to be the uniform of an English regiment that happened to be in Ireland at the time (as of course many were).
I can't see enough of the lapel badge to recognise much at all sadly.
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Many regts had white/ buff facings at the time....
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l102/scrimnet/2ndBn.jpg)
Many men joined the regt that was there at the time...I actually saw a jug in an antique shop yesterday commemorating a chap born in Wexford, but he had joined the 58th Regt...2nd Northamptons.
Also as Neil has pointed out, the facings don't actually match any Irish regts...
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This is becoming more of a mystery than I imagined. ??? ??? ??? ???
vito
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Hi Vito,
Those are the facing colours in the whole of the era you're interested in.
http://uk.geocities.com/neil182@btinternet.com/facingcolours.htm
I agree with scrimnet, it's just as likely to be the uniform of an English regiment that happened to be in Ireland at the time (as of course many were).
I can't see enough of the lapel badge to recognise much at all sadly.
Ireland was...and still is...a "home" posting and as such would have had most regiments passing through at some time...
Most soldiers didn't always join the "local" regt....My great uncle went from the Northamptonshire/Buckinghamshire border to Taunton to join the Somerset Light Infantry!
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The East Yorkshire Regt were in islandbridge barracks in 1888?
If this is a relative of mine and as it was found in a collection of my grandas I am assuming he is either related to my granda or granny. Then to my knowledge I would have had no relatives outside ireland. So it is possible he joined a regiment based near either belfast or lurgan and then moved with the regiment to lurgan?? I am assuming to join the regiment they would have to be in the area???
vito
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I'm fairly sure that the Irish Military Historian Comdt P.D. O'Donnell who died just a few years ago wrote a history of Island Bridge (Clancy) Barracks.
This would contain a complete history of all of the British and later Irish Units to serve there.
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A quick read of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_Denis_O'Donnell confirms this !
Looks like he wrote a history of Clancy Bks for the Cosantoir ( Irish for Defender) which is the official magazine of the Irish DF.
The article was writen between 1969 and 1973. If you were to write to the current editor of the Coasantoir Magazine, Defence Forces HQ, Infirmary Road Dublin, they might be able to send you on a photocopy of the article.
To my mind, the collar insignia does look very like a harp with a scroll below it.
On a different note ( I am new here !), is it normal that references to names of people and places in an earlier post of mine now seem to have been invaded by ads for Amazon ????
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Yes it is normal , I note your interest in military history , I am waiting to get my grandads irish military records through irish military archives. He was in national forces between 1922-23, it lists him as being in the transport division and based at mullingar barracks. I have to provide deathcert and my dads birth cert and sworn affadavit before they release records under freedom of information act. Any idea what they are likely to contain? My aunt says that he was in irish military intelligence at some stage, what was that likely to have involved?
vito
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The barracks in Inchicore back then was Richmond barracks, not Clancy as was mentioned by another gentleman, although it is near it. There is a book being written on Richmond barracks at the moment which may cast some light on your search for you.