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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: NadT on Friday 04 January 08 10:36 GMT (UK)
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Hi, I'm hoping someone can help me with this.
My GGG grandfather Michael Glendening is listed on all census entries as being born Pepy/Peepy Northumberland and I am trying to track down his birth records to further my research. Taking the ages from census info he would have been born abt 1817. There is an added complication of his name being spelt, Glendening/Glendenning/Glendinning on the censuses. Anyway I've found an IGI entry for a Michael Glendinning born1817, baptised Lee Saint John, Northumberland, with a mothers name of Margaret. There is no fathers name so I assume he was illegitimate. Does anyone have access to Northumberland parish records to check if there is any more info?
Adding to my confusion is that when Michael marries Ann Postle in 1837 he lists a fathers name of John, ()I have a marriage cert for that) although someone recently told me that putting 'John' as a father was also commonly done when the father wasn't known. Is this correct?
Michael, although born in Peepy married in Durham and lived in Durham, as have his descendents.
I am hoping someone can help as I've come to the same stand still on the other side of the family. My GGG grandfather Jonathan Richardson b1817 Tanfield Durham was also illegitimate and I've had no luck tracking down hiw mother Sarah.
Here's hoping
Nadine :-\
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Peepy stands about 1 km. north west of Bywell. famous today for the famous (Hunday) herd of cattle.
St John Lee records only state Dec 28th. 1817 Michael son of Margaret GLENDINNING of Quarry house. no other info .
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Sharmor,
Thanks very much for that, it's a start.
Nadine
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Sorry to convey bad news, but IGS is always a shot in the dark.
Burials at St John Lee, 28th Dec 1817 Michael so Margaret Glendinning, Quarry House.
There are baptisms for Esther do of Joseph and Ruth Glendinning, Colwell Ho Chollerton. and Jane do Jane Glendinning, Acomb Fell about that year both buried within the year.
The only marriage for Glendinning is for May 9th 1813 Andrew Routledge of Bywell psh married Ann Glendinning otp. Peepy is of course in Bywell parish, so that might direct your further attention to Bywell.
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Nadine,
The custom of using "John" as a father's name in cases of illegitimacy.. ??
The way I heard it, it was "Jack the Lad". Only kidding. After several years researching trees, I have never ever heard this before.
Onto my old hobby horse.. the English naming Pattern (ENP).
When we are stuck for parents name, the convention followed by couples in naming their children offers clues to the names of the couple's parents....
"Rule" No 1... name first son after child's father's father
2. second son gets mother's father's name.
6. call first dtr of her mother's mother
7. name second dtr after her father's mother's name.
I think Ann's father was called Jonathan ( he the father of an Ann Postle Baptised in 1819 in Shotlet Bridge) ??
And I noticed the frequent use of Rebecca amongst the Postles.
But infant deaths can mess up our "view" of the pattern.
The Michael/Ann couple called their first dtr Rebecca ????
First son John/Jonathan ????. Second son John??
I don't think they named any of their children Margaret ??.
Their son Michael born 1859 had "middle" name of Henry ??
Hope this is not wasting your time.
Michael Dixon
Newcastle
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Sorry to convey bad news, but IGS is always a shot in the dark.
Burials at St John Lee, 28th Dec 1817 Michael so Margaret Glendinning, Quarry House.
I can't see this in the Burials for St John Lee. the last burial in 1817 was on 9th, Dec for Elizabeth PROUD wife o fJohn of Acomb age 77
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Peter,
I couldn't see a burial, just a baptism for Michael 28 Dec 1817, but I will look further at Bywell, thanks.
Nadine
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Michael,
Thank you this does help.
I thought the use of John for illegitimacy didn't sound right, but thought I'd check it out, particularly as my GGG grandfather on the other side is also illegitimate, but his birth record states, Jonathan illegitimate son of Sarah Richardson
Yes Michael married Ann Postle in Shotley Bridge 1837 and her father was Jonathan - her mother is a bit of an issue. Her parish baptism records says,
Baptisms, Lanchester District
Record Number: 407332.0
Parish/Church: Medomsley (St. Mary Magdalene)
17 Oct 1819 Ann Postle, of Shotley Bridge, daughter of Jonathan Postle (husbandman) by his wife Mary.
but Jonathan also had a number of children before Ann with Rebecca Forster - I don't know where the Mary has come from. It's definitely the same Jonatahn Postle on teh parish record. The Rebecca fits in with Michael and Ann naming their first daughter Rebecca.
Michael and Ann named their children, Rebecca b1839, Jonathan b1844, John b1851, Joseph b1855 and Michael Henry b1859. I haven't looked to see if there have been any deaths in between, but all these children appear on all census's from 1841 onwards.
Using your format Michaels dad should have been called John or Jonathan (shortened to John maybe?).
You're also right, I can't find any children of Michael and Ann named Margaret, although it does appear that they only had the one daughter.
You seem to know what you're on about, so just how reliable is the IGI index ? Some people tell me that it's very reliabll and I should give up looking for a fther for Michael and assume that this entry in St John Lee is definitely him, but now I'm being told that it's not a reliable source.
I'm still relatively new to this. I can find my way around the census and BMDs, but am not so sure about parish records, and living so far away I can't really get to records offices.
Thanks very much for your help and advice.
Nadine
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Nadine,
I am no expert on IGI, mainly because I am not a regular user...
Because ...
1) I am lucky to have reliable resources here in Newcastle
(Library for church records- mainly abbreviated transcriptions
and indexes, and Tyne&Wear archives for the Full Monty of church records), and
2) IGI does not hold a wide range of Catholic church records.
When I am next in T&W Archives, I will delve into church records for Michael's past.. ( within next 14 days)
IGI users will probably tell you that "extracted" records are trustworthy, while the other type ( I've forgotten term.. something like "submitted by members" ?? ) are not.
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Did Michael/Ann call their first son Jonathan "John" on C1851, then Jonathan from C1861, after the later John came along ?
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A wee trivia note, on the Irish Naming Pattern ( very similar to the English and Scottish versions.....
If a man lost his wife, then remarried, the first dtr born of the new union was to given the name of the deceased wife !
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Michael Dixon
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Michael,
Thank you so much. I would love to get to the bottom of this if I can, particularly as there's little chance of me getting further back on my Richardson side.
Looking at census info, on 1851 census, which was taken before John b1851 was born, Jonathan is listed as Jonathan, and remains listed as Jonathan throughout all the other ones too.
With regard to the naming thing for Ann Postles mother - more confusion for me??!!
Jonathan Postle and Rebecca Forster had 4 children that I have found.
Joseph b1805 bap 1805 listed as 1st son of ....
John b1807 bap 1810 listed as 2nd son of ...
Rebecca b1810 bap 1810 (at the same time as John) listed as 3rd daughter of ....
Nathaniel b 1815 bap 1815 listed as son of .....
The above records indicate that there should be 2 other daughters somewhere - I've yet to find them.
Then we have Ann Postle b 1819 daughter of Jonathan and Mary.
I can't find a burial record for Rebecca Postle (Forster), but there is a Rebecca Postle aged 60 on the 1841 census living with Deborah/Dorothy Postle aged 21, Elizabeth aged 23. Joseph aged 20 and wait for it, a Mary Crozier with an age of either 30 or 50, there's a blob on the census document so it's not clear which it is, but she is not from Durham and in the other box where it asks whether from Scotland Ireland or foreign parts there's an I !!!! The dates for the children are all wrong, in fact I think they are the children of another Postle family from Weardale (there seem to be a few Postle families in the same area).
It could be coincidence - it's all too confusing. I guess I nned to try and find a birth for Rebecca Forster to know for sure. I think it's going to take me years to get to the bottom of this family of mine!!
Anyway, any help you can give will be hugely appreciated, thanks again for your help to date.
Nadine
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Sorry I forgot to confirm Micaehl and Anns childrens birth order>
Rebecca b1839 surname registered at birth GLENDENING
Jonathan b1844 surname reg at birth GLENDINNING
John b1851 surname reg at birth GLENDENNING
Joseph b1855 surname reg at birth GLENDINNING
Michael Henry b1859 surname reg at birth GLENDINNING
There is another John GLELNDINNING
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:D
Sorry, don't know what happened there. What I was saying is that there is another John GLENDINNING born 1851 in Hexham, he is a John Thomas Glendinning. I have assumed he is not my John because apart from the year of birth he didn't quite fit in with anything else I have. My John doesn't have a middle name listed on any census documents, or on his daughter Mary's birth certificate. I am currently waiting for copies of Johns birth and marriage certificates which i hope will prove I am correct in this assumption.
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Nadine,
Yesterday I had opportunity to look into parish records (transcriptions) of Bywell St Andrew and Bywell St Peter.
Unfortunately the transcriptions ( labours of love by researchers in early 1900s) did not span the period in which Michael is most likely to have been born.
However, using the surname indexes that were available for earlier periods, I could not find a single Glendening (or variations) event.
Next time I am at Northumberland County Records Office
(at Woodhorn) I shall look in the full parish records.
Michael Dixon
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Michael,
No Glendenings at all? Oh dear, Thanks for trying for me anyway. I have now received Johns (b1851) birth and marriage certificates and definitely have the right one. There's the same old variation on the spelling of the surname, on John's birth certificate Michael's surname is spelt Glendenning but on the marriage cert of John to Mary Ann Carr, the surname has become Glendinning.
Once again, thanks for trying to help. :)
Nadine
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Nadine,
Don't lose any sleep about the variations of the surname...
On line, I just search for " glen* "
My mother's Gallaghers were recorded by various officials in over 30 variations (including Kalliga)
The "Surname Profiler" web site shows on a GB map, how a surname is distributed over GB.
Glendenning seems to be strongest in South-West Scotland, then South-East Scotland, then Northumberland ( and hardly anywhere else-have a look yourself)
Michael Dixon
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Michael,
I had noticed that there were lots in Scotland. I lost the family in 1881 and someone said the name may be scottish so looked on the Scottish census - there are hundreds of them!! But mine weren't there, as it turned out they were still in the same place in Durham just spelt Glenaning!!
Nadine
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Nadine,
This is my first time on this site so excuse me writing long after your posts trying to trace your family. I wonder if you can help though.
I am attempting to link up to the Borders a family of Glendening's I have researched in the south of England (Middlesex and Kent) . The grandson and great grandson became well known artists.
I have traced James Glendening to Barton St Mary, Yorkshire in 1796 (born - date unknown) and baptized at the church there on 14th February 1796. He is the one who then moved down to Middlesex.
His father who was a witness to the christensing records (so I am told) and indicated he lived in/came from Carlisle. His father was called John Glendening. I am very keen to learn something about this John Glendening born in or around Carlisle I guess around 1765 to 1775. Where might I find that sort of information? Do you know?
Does your family tree take you across to Carlisle with a links to this John and his son James?
David
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Hi David,
I don't think I'm going to be of much help to you I'm sorry. I have a suspician that my Glendening./Glendenning/Glendinning family may have originally come from Scotland, but am still at a standstill with the parentage of Michael b1817. He was born in Peepy Northumberland and whilst i've found a possible mother for him in St John Lee Northumberland, I've no way of knowing if it's definitely her (there are a number of addresses wiht the same detail close by). Also, as he puts a father's name of John on his marriage certificate I'm not sure he was even illegitimate. I'm told that unlike the other side of my family the baptism entry for St John Lee does not read 'illegitimate' and the mothers name does not have 'single woman' against it.
The other side of my family that the Glendenings married into (Richardson) did it appears originate from Cumbria (Whitehaven and the surrounding area) but I've no idea if earlier Glendenings were in the same area.
I don't know where you are in relation to Cumbria, I am at the other end of the country and so have been reliant on help from other Rootschatters and people from other sites. There are a few records offices in Cumbria, so as a starting piont I'd think you'd need to establish at which office your parish records are likely to be held - I'm sure someone on here will be able to tell you.
I do use the LDS site alot as a starting point, although you do have to follow up and confirm the info there. I have found people on this (rootschat) site very helpful in confirming/giving advice on the information found.
If you start a topic, giving them as much detail as you have, there is normally someone willing to try and look things up for you. One kind person looked up the Whitehaven parish records for me and got me details of my GGG grandparents marriage on the Richardson side and details of all their childrens baptisms at the same church (pre-registration). Although, I have to say, the Glendenings have been a big stumbling block for me, and much as people have tried to help, I am no further on in finding the parents of my Michael Glendening (possibly John and Margaret Glendening).
I wish you luck with your search.
Nad
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Many thanks for your very prompt reply.
I can tell you that the Glendening's were definitely in the Scottish borders. They get a mention in a general way rather than specifics in a book I am reading - The Steel Bonnets by George MacDonald Fraser - (The Story of the Anglo-Scottish Border Reivers). As one who was brought up in Cumberland, as it then was, it is all fascinating to me.
I am trying to see how far back I can pursue this Glendening line. My father got our own family back to 1530 and that was before the internet came along.
If you do hear of other Glendening researchers where they are interested in the Victorian artist's family I will be pleased to hear from them.
Best wishes
David
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Hello, David.
James Glendenning, christened at Barton Saint Mary's in 1796, son of John Glendenning, later lived at Darlington in Saint Cuthbert's parish. He had a son, James, christened in Darlington in 1831. The extended family of children of John Glendenning and his wife, Jane Jackson, were in the Darlington area through much of the nineteenth century. A younger daughter, Eleanor, is my ancestor, having been christened at Saint Cuthbert's in 1803.
(another) David
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Hi David,
Thanks for responding.
We are clear that the James Glendening (one "n") whose family we a tracing (or trying to!!) came from Barton St Mary down to Middlesex about 1824 where he became a butler. He was born we believe in early 1796 and was baptised at the church in Barton St Mary on 14th February that year. He married in London 15th March 1825 to Sarah Chandler and he died in Peckham, London in 1878.
Consequently I am fascinated by your James who went to Darlington. If his father was John and his mother was Jane Jackson they might be one and the same and it could be that he headed south from Darlington. Do you have any clues on that possibility?
It is quite feasible that Eleanor is sister to James from what you are saying. Do you have details of these siblings and any record or reason as to why they went to Barton St Mary in the first place (from Carlisle where father John came from) or why they moved on up to Darlington.
I am particularly interested to find out about father John, who as I have said came from Carlisle (where I believe they also have a St Cuthberts church. Do you have any dates for John and for Jane Jackson too and where they were born and christened?
In what trade was John working?
Finally do you have a record of any professional artists in your family right through to the present day? My interest relates to an artist and his son, the son and grandson of this James Glendening. The grandson has a work in the Tate Gallery.
Best wishes. Have a great Christmas
Do you know what he did as a trade?
Any record of parents and where they were all living?
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The James I am tracking had a son, James, christened 26 July 1831 at Saint Cuthbert's, Darlington.
The siblings of James were christened at Barton, Saint Cuthbert's and Barton, Saint Mary's, with the youngest two being "done" at Saint Cuthbert's in Darlington in 1803 and 1806 respectively. Jane, their mother, dying in 1807.
David
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Hello! I don't know if this may help, but the C of E marriage register for Co. Durham 1812-1837 shows a John Postle married Mariah Walton at Tanfield on 07/20 1833. There were no other John/Jonathan in that index; there were none in Northumberland index in that time frame. Pat
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Thanks David.
Do you have the siblings names and dates?
I may be able to get back to father John through their christening or later marriage details if he was a witness to either event.
It may simply be that we are on the wrong track altogether. (I do hope not!!)
David
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Hello Pat,
Thanks for this. It is probably the wrong timescale for me though.
My James married in London in 1825 and his father may well have died by 1833.
If this John to which you refer is about 45 to 55 years old at taht time I would like to have a closer look at his details and would welcome receiving teh link you have.
Best wishes
David
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Hello David, Sadly, I merely have a C of E INDEX. No other details -- those would have to be obtained through the specific parish register...Pat
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The baptismal entries at Barton St. Cuthbert and Barton Saint Mary did not indicate a former domicile.
The baptism of my Eleanor (1803) says "Carlisle" as John's place of origin, but does not mention a parish. That's at Saint Cuthbert's Darlington. His marriage was at Middleton Tyas, 23 November 1790 to Jane Jackson. She was a native of Whorlton, Durham, daughter of George Jackson and Jane Hanby.
The children of John & Jane:
George (1791) Barton St Cuthbert
Jane (1794) Barton St Mary
James (1796) Barton St Mary
John (1798) Barton St Mary
Robert (1801) Barton St Cuthbert
Eleanor (1803) Darlington St Cuthbert
Elizabeth (1806) Darlington St Cuthbert
Jane was buried in 1807, with the rites at St Cuthbert, Darlington.
I believe John was buried 8 May 1829, St Cuthbert, Darlington.
David
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David
You are a star - That is really great stuff.
You have the family moving to Darlington which must be the place from which James set out on his adventure; all the way to London.
Is there any sign in anything you have to suggest the occupation of either John or Jane? Where is that showing?
David
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John is shown as a gardener in the burial record for his wife in 1807. I have a reference in my notes that say he may be from Kirby Stephen, but I don't know where that comes from.
I suspect he married a second time, to Hannah Maugham, on 15 Oct 1811 at Darlington St. Cuthbert.
Eldest son, George, was a butcher and died at Darlington in 1848.
John, next younger to James, was an inmate at the Darlington workhouse in 1871.
Robert was a bricklayer at the time his illegitimate daughter was christened in 1823.
Daughter Eleanor's husband Anthony Smith was a labourer and/or a teamster at Darlington.
Youngest daughter Elizabeth's husband Thomas Wrathall was a grocer at Barnard Castle. Their daughter married Eleanor's youngest son (first cousins intermarried) and they came to America in 1873. I am a descendant of Anthony by his second marriage to an American woman, which occurred within the month of his first wife's death.
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I am very grateful.
David
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How is it that you know your James is the same as the James christened at Barton in 1796?
DM
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We have traced him up to Barton St Mary as he had three sons, one of whom is my artist. Through the birth details of the three sons we have the parents details including James and Sarah being married in St Georges, Hanover Square, London on 15th March 1825. Their various certificates do, so I believe (although I have not seen them myself) confirm that.
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My question becomes how do you tie him to Barton? Census records? Family lore? Since the marriage predates civil registration, does the church register indicate the hometown?
I'm not trying to say you're wrong--I am trying to show how to strengthen the suggestion that the man you're seeking and the man I already have are, in fact, the same person.
There appears to be no question that the man I have does not remain in Darlington. Whither he goes, I have no idea. He--or someone of the same name--does have a child christened there in 1831. The family as I know it is concentrated in the Darlington/Barnard Castle/Newcastle area throughout the 19th Century, and only a bit of the next generation winds up leaving for the States, including what becomes my line.
DM
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David
The notes (prepared by someone helping me with whom I can double check after Christmas) say that James G Glendening (b 1831) was the son of John Glendening and grandson of John Glendening too.
It seems his father is John, brother of the James I have as father of my artist. This James is also the son of John (the one I am after) and is the James we have as recorded somewhere as being born in Barton St Mary.
I will pin down where that comes from.
Off to bed now!!
David
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Alright, then.
John, brother of James (1796) has four children to my reckoning:
George, (1824-1830)
William (1826)
Jane (1834)
George (1837)--known to have had a daughter
All at Darlington Saint Cuthbert. There's certainly a gap there that would allow for John to fit in, but I find no record at St Cuthbert.
Let's keep at this.
DM
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Dear DavidM,
I have found the census entries for John (1798 of Barton) for 1851, 1861 and 1871. In the 1851 census HO107/2385/555 p.6 he has a son James b.c. 1831, Darlington. I wonder whether it was even an an error on the part of the St Cuthbert's Darlington incumbent and that the 1831 baptism should have read 'James son of John'.
I am a descendant of James (1796 of Barton) and the person who David Coulthard refers to as working with. (I believe you and I have been in contact directly before re John senior (1769, Carlisle?) back in 2005-6.) We are confident that our James is the 1796 Barton James because of the census entries for him 1851, 1861, and 1871 - references respectively HO107/1587/360p.1, RG9/403/12p.18, and RG10/759/84p.1.
Julie
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Hi
my name is Nicholas Glendening and have also been building my tree. I'm very interested as my line goes through Thomas Montagu Glendening, brother of Alfred Glendening.
regards
nick
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Are you Nicholas John Glendening aged about 45, father David, Mother Sheila, brothers Michael and Jonathan etc?
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yes i am
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I met your father a couple of years ago (who was very helpful and a great inspiration for me to pursue my own interest in the Glendenings) and I now have a pretty thorough tree of your Thomas Montague side and that of Alfred Augustus as well.
The lovely Julie who has also posted here is part of your branchline and has been a massive help.
My interest as the earlier posts show is the artist side of the family. Also as I am from the borders area I was particularly keen to try to get back into the 1700's to see if any family links existed. I have my own tree back to 1530 so far.
I am based in London and Suffolk these days and would be pleased to share some more of the detail with you although I am likely to be away quite a lot over the next month. Do call me on 07747 600 444.
David
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Hi,
I am the 'lovely Julie' that David refers to - Thanks, David!
I am also very interested to share my Glendening research with you Nick (3rd cousin by my calculations) or any other Glendening researcher. My tree for the Glendening is pretty big now, in fact if I get any more stuff I think I will have to set up a one-name-study.
Nick, we have been in communication before and I have sent you an email to you directly, if the email is still current. My email is still (*). I have loads I would like to share with you, for example photos of your great-great-grandmother Emma Sarah Glendening nee Lemmey, wife of Thomas Montague.
I hope to hear from you soon.
Julie
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Simply putting my line out so all can tie me in where I might fit:
John Glendenning (b. ca. 1769; d. 1829, Darlington) m. Jane Jackson (b. 1770, Whorlton; d. 1807, Darlington)
parents of
Eleanor Glendenning (b. 1803, Darlington; d. 1881, Darlington) m. Anthony Smith (b. 1795, Bentham; d. 1876, Darlington), parents of
Anthony Smith, Jnr. (b. 1849, Darlington; d. 1906, Springfield, Illinois, USA) m/1 Grace Wrathall (b. 1844, Barnard Castle; d. 1885, Sprinfield, Illinois, USA--his first cousin, daughter of Elizabeth Glendenning & Thomas Wrathall and granddaughter of John Glendenning and Jane Jackson, above; m/2 Julia Ann Cain (b. 1861, Kinmundy, Illinois, USA; d. 1954, Springfield, Illinois, USA)
Edward Alexander Smith (b. 1895, Springfield; d. 1975, Springfield) m. Elsie Viola Farrand (b. 1898, Petersburg, Illinois; d. 1966, Springfield.
Ed & Viola are my maternal grandparents.
David McDonald
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Hi David
Just a little more for you.
Jane Jackson was baptised at St Mary's Church, Whorlton, Durham on the 2nd of December 1770. She was the daughter of George and Jane Jackson . Here is a source for you:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mcneillyandco/eleanorgrace%20Glendenning.htm
A you know from all the various posts below John and Jane Glendenning had the following children
George - born 1791
Jane - born 1794
James - born 1796
John - born 1798
Robert - born 1801
Eleanor Grace - born 1803.
Jane died in 1807 aged 37 or 38. Buried in St Cuthbert's, Darlington, County Durham on 29 June 1807
John, having married for a second time to Hannah Maugham, on 15 Oct 1811 at Darlington St. Cuthbert, died in 1829. Buried St Cuthbert's Church, Darlington on the 8th May 1829.
While their name was spelt Glendenning back then by the time James (b1796) moves south to live in London he takes the spelling as Glendening with just one "n".
You state "John Glendenning (b. ca. 1769; d. 1829" and have in the past referred to a possible link to Kirkby Stephen (which is a village half way between Carlisle and Barton St Mary) . What information source do you have for the birthdate and is the "ca" meaning just "circa" or is it Carlisle, Cumberland, where he probably lived at one time.
As I have said before this John is shown on one baptism or wedding register of one of his children as coming from Carlisle. The accurate detail of his birthdate and possible link to Carlisle is something I would love to find, to validate birth or baptism, as well as to find the names of his parents.
Does anyone reading this have any ideas on where the data on John Glendenning (d 1829) might be found? Someone suggested St Cuthbert's in Carlisle. How do I get details from them living, as I do, so far away. Does anyone have a link to that church's archivist or any other church archivists in the Carlisle area?
Best wishes
David
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"ca" simply means "circa"
Carlisle is mentioned in the baptismal entry for Eleanor in 1803 at Saint Cuthbert's, as I recall. I also seem to recall that his burial entry at Saint Cuthbert's might have mentioned his being about 60 years of age. I'll have to find my file and materials to be certain. Otherwise, the parish registers of Saint Cuthbert's are available on microfilm.
Let me see what I can dig out.
David in Wisconsin
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Hi,
Just to say I am watching the conversation between the two David's with interest, as I would love to find out my 4xgreat grandfather John Glendenning's origins, Carlisle or otherwise. In the summer I am going on holiday to Northumberland and my family may not want to spend the holidays in libraries and record offices, but I am sure we can take a few detours.
Julie (Anne)
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Just to add to my earlier messages on this thread.
I now have the 1841 census for John Glenden(n)ing b.1798 and his wife Margaret and their 5 children (their first child having already died), see HO107/307/20/8p.11. And together with DavidM's information, I now have John and Margaret having 6 children altogether:
1. George 1824-1830
2. William 1826
3. Robert 1828
4. James 1832
5. Jane 1834
6. George 1837.
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Julie,
Am I right that this John Glendenning to whom you are referring is the younger brother of James Glendening (b 1796 Barton St Mary) and brother in law to his wife, Sarah Chandler?
Do you have any birthdays for these two brothers?
Anything at all yet on their father John ( spotted as being from Carlisle on something!!)? He married jane Jackson if my memory serves me.
David
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Yes David I was referring to John brother of James and son of John Glenden(n)ing and Jane Jackson.
James and John junior were baptised on 14 February 1796 and 11 November 1798 respectively in Barton St. Mary, Yorkshire. I also have a birth for John of 23 May 1798.
I have not progressed further with John senior in Carlisle. The first thing I want to do is get hold of the original of his daughters baptism which is as far as I know the only reference of John senior being from Carlisle. I have just found out that the pilot version of the FamilySearch website has original image of the Bishop's Transcripts of Darlington St. Cuthberts. On my first look the images were good but the order of the transcripts not totally logical and the reader had to be paged through from page 1 very slowly. I would be interested to know if DavidM or anyone else for that matter has/ has had access to these registers more easily.
Julie
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www.durhamrecordsonline.com has some Darlington St.Cuthbert records. Baptisms 1798-1812, Marriages 1798-1837, Burials 1689-1812. Its pay per view, transcriptions not original records, but they are excellent transcriptions, which give all the details that are on the register.
Do a free search on All records - Darlington - surname glend*
Comes up with the baptisms of Eleanor Glendenham 1803 and Elizabeth Glendenning 1806.
Also the burial of Jane Glendenning born 1786, died 1807, birthplace Whorlton.
Among 49 Glendinning/Glendenning etc records in Darlington.
Alan.
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Thanks Alan,
I had come across that and might well look at it again. But what we really need is the original Eleanor's 1803 baptism, I think, which has a note by it about her father's origins.
Alan are you descended from Eleanor? Sometimes I've seen Eleanor's mother given as Grace rather than Jane Jackson. What is your view?
Julie
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Jane,
The durham records site gives the full transcriptions, I just gave whats on the "free to search" index.
I have lots of credits with them, so eg. the details given of Eleanors baptism are :
30 Nov 1803 Eleanor Glendenham, born 13 Oct 1803, 2nd daughter of John Glendenham (labourer, native of Carlisle) & Jane Jackson (native of Whorlton, Yorkshire).
I'm not related, just one of the "helpers" on here, who has ground to a halt on his own family tree, but has lots of underused subscriptions and credits.
Alan.
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Sorry, Julie, not Jane.
Alan.
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Dear DavidM you mentioned that:
"The James I am tracking had a son, James, christened 26 July 1831 at Saint Cuthbert's, Darlington."
Well David I don't know whether it is different in the parish registers but on the bishop's transcripts (you can now access images of the ORIGINALS online) say that on 26 July 1831 James son of JOHN and Margaret was christened at St Cuthberts i.e. NOT SON OF JAMES.
This would simultaneously solve the problem of how our James who married in London in 1825 can be the same as your James and give his brother John a son James.
Your much appreciated information has made me reinvestigate John and Margaret's family. I now believe with your information added that John and Margaret had six children; George (1824-1830), William (1826-), Robert (1828-), James (1831-), Jane (1834-) and George(1837-). This concurs with the 1841 census I have for them in New Shildon (HO107/307/20/8p.11); unfortunately Ancestry transcribes the family as "Glendenig" which put me off the scent to start with.
Unfortunately as well the Bishop Transcripts of Darlington St. Cuthbert's online don't seem to cover 1803, so I am still missing an original image of Eleanor Glendening's baptism with the reference to her father (John senior)'s origin of Carlisle.
Regards,
Julie
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Hi Alan,
Sorry I didn't read your post properly. The transcription "30 Nov 1803 Eleanor Glendenham, born 13 Oct 1803, 2nd daughter of John Glendenham (labourer, native of Carlisle) & Jane Jackson (native of Whorlton, Yorkshire)" is perfect.
Thanks for using some of your credits.
In your opinion does this mean that he was born in Carlisle or that he lived there at some point? What do others think?
Julie
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Julie,
"Native of Carlisle" means born in Carlisle.
"You can access images of the ORIGINALS online" Yes but originals of copies transcribed from the original parish record. And some "BTs" were abbreviated copies .
Michael
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David, Hello,
I picked up on your links with Alfred Augustus Glendening, and am trying to find out more on his paintings along the Ouse in Huntingdonshire, particularly Hemingford , c1885.
Signatures both AA Glendening and AAG - both I presume to be the senior.
Are you able to add any information?
best wishes,
Bridget
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Hi - Just a message for NadT. I noticed that you stated your gggrandfather was John Glendinning from Durham? Not sure but we may have a match in my own research. Do you know the names of his children, grandchildren? Hannah or Mary Alice ring any bells?
Thanks, Cam