RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Devon => Topic started by: millymollymandy on Saturday 29 December 07 20:12 GMT (UK)
-
Can anyone help me please? I have very little information about my Great Grandmother born Annie or Ann Dark in Buckland, Devon around 1864.
I do have a copy of her marriage to my Great Grandfather, George Spiller, at the Parish Church, North Curry, Somerset, on 3 May 1892. On the Certificate, Annie's father is named as Joseph, a gardener. I obtained a copy of the Marriage Certificate of a Joseph Dark to Mary Pooley, who were married at Bideford Register Office on 5 October 1861, both residing at Woolfardisworthy. Joseph's father is named Thomas Dark, a farmer. I also have copies of the following:-
A Birth Certificate of Annie Dark born on 22 November 1864 at Bideford Union Workhouse. Her mother's name is Ellen, but the father is not named;
A copy of the 1841 Census for Parkham, Devon, which includes Thomas and Miriam Dark and Family, including son Joseph, aged 7;
A copy of the 1861 Census for Woolfardisworthy, Devon, which includes Thomas and Miriam Dark and family, including son Joseph, aged 26;
A copy of the 1871 Census for Lundy Island in the Bristol Channel, which includes Joseph Dark, aged 35, and wife Mary and children, but no Annie/Ann;
A copy of the 1881 Census for St. Erme?, Truro, Cornwall, which shows an Ann Dark, aged 20, a general servant, born in Devon (with a Thomas Dark, aged 15), living with Richard and Mary Cleave and family. Not sure that this is my Annie.
A copy of the 1901 Census for Wiveliscombe Without, Somerset, on which Annie is aged 36 living with her husband George and children, including my grandmother, Gertrude. Annie's birthplace is named as 'Devonshire, Buckland'.
There are so many families with the surname 'Dark' in Devon and I have obtained so many Certificates that have not related.
Please could somebody help me find out exactly when and where Annie/Ann was born and give me some information about her family? I have spent so long on this subject, without much success. I can find so little about her and am beginning to wonder if she was, in fact, the baby born in Bideford Workhouse, and that her father's real name was not Joseph!
Many thanks.
Millymollymandy :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
-
Ok, 1892 marriage cert:
anyy address, age of bride & groom, witness names..
all census,
piece, folio and page for all?
That way we can see what you see.
Pauline
-
Pauline is right. Witnesses etc on marriage certificates can hold vital clues. The more info you can give the better. It does sound a difficult one. Just the sort that is enjoyed on rootschat! Let us have it all.....
Andrea
-
Hello Pauline,
I have reference numbers on the Census copies. Is this what you mean? If not, where would I find the info you want?
Thanks,
Millymollymandy
-
witness names, ages of all parties, and what numbers you see on the census pieces.
We'll yell you if it's not enough...
Pauline
-
Yes that is it. eg the 1861 census will start RG9 then the piece number, folio and then page. The 1901 is RG13 2268 F14 p2
Andrea
-
The 1871 family are in Wales 1881. RG11/5362 F107 P39.
Joseph the father is now a market gardener; still no Annie though.
Dora b 1863 died in swansea 1885.
1891 Swansea. kids have moved out.
Joseph's a Gardener still. RG12/4483; F22; P37
Ellen b1865 is a Barmaid . RG12/4478 F77 p19
Florence (b1870) is a Inn Barmaid. RG12/4478 F117 P5.
Dunno what to think now....
-
This is a touch off topic but may be helpful to someone. Woolfardisworthy is pronounced Woolsery and often written phoenetically.
-
Hi all
There is a Ann Dark, aged 10 b Buckland Brewer living with her parents Joseph and Jane in 1871. Also siblings ...one of her brother's is a Gardener, Joseph is an Ag lab.
there is a marriage of Joseph Dark to either a Jane Arnold or Jane Hookway in 1855 , Bideford.
ummm cannot find Joseph in 1891 ....
deb :-\
-
Hi all
There is a Ann Dark, aged 10 b Buckland Brewer living with her parents Joseph and Jane in 1871. Also siblings ...one of her brother's is a Gardener, Joseph is an Ag lab.
there is a marriage of Joseph Dark to either a Jane Arnold or Jane Hookway in 1855 , Bideford.
ummm cannot find Joseph in 1891 ....
deb :-\
What is the census ref?
Pauline
-
Bit of an aside.
I'm less-than-convinced that the OP has the correct ann in 1881, as there's another Dark servant in the household.
It ties in too well with the family at (1871) RG10/2219 F55 P9. Father william, his wife Elizabeth.
Pauline
-
Hi Pauline
the ref is
RG10/2205 fol 6 p4
I have also searched for Ellen Dark a possible mother for Annie Dark b c 1864 in the union workhouse. I also cannot find any great matches in 1871 for an Annie b 1864 with mother Ellen.
Was Joseph, the father, deceased at the time of Annie's marriage?
deb
added...I recall seeing an ellen Dark with mother jane who is a market gardener ...will try to find her again
-
Hi
In 1891
Dorset, Chardstock
Annie Dark ,28, Devon , Wear Gifford, is working as a cook and servant. Two doors away there is a Frederick SPILLER b Membury Devon , farmer, and his family.
Annie dark married George Spiller. Is this a coincidence? I know on Millymollymandy's other posts one of her Spiller people was born in Membury , Devon.
RG12/1668 fol 27 p 5
deb :)
-
Hi
In 1881:
There is an Ann DarT b 1862, Buckland Brewer working in Monkleigh, in a posh household/Mansion. This is the same area as Annie Dark was with parents Joseph and Jane in 1871...see previous post. I wonder if this was not a mistranscription or an error on the enumerators part.
Monkleighs reg district is Bideford, sub reg district is Parkham
RG11/2262 fol 41 p 4
deb
-
Hello again,
Thanks for all the information you've discovered. It would seem to me that there are two possibilities that would appear most likely to be my great grandmother:
Ann DarT on the 1881 Devon Census - My mother can recall her mother Gertrude (Ann's daughter) telling her stories of when she (Gertrude) was a young girl having to curtsy whenever the horse and carriage went by as she played in the lanes. She could have been staying with her grandparents Joseph and Jane at the time in Parkham, maybe.
Annie Dark, age 28, on the 1891 Devon Census - The neighbour, Frederick Spiller, could well have been a relation of George Spiller who she married on 3rd May 1892 in North Curry, Somerset.
MMM
::) ::)
-
Don't know how I missed this thread but I have a Mary DARK born about 1796 in Woolfardsworthy West who married James BALE in Parkham in 1811 she had at least 8 children and died in Bideford in 1874 in Parkham and Abbotsham. If any one comes across her I would be delighted to hear from you
Trees
-
I have gathered a lot of information on the Devon Dark Families - most of it is rather confusing because the 'offspring' of different branches seem to have the same given names.
What info do you need on Mary Dark - is it the childrens names etc?
Jo
-
Hi Milly Molly Mandy
I have only just seen your message - I have done quite a bit of research into the North Devon Dark's. I will have a look through my notes to see if I can help . This may take a couple of days because 'Ann & Joseph' are not uncommon names in the Dark Families
Jo
-
Hi Jo, I have the James Bale and Mary nee DARK children but nothing about her before the marriage I have her age from her Memorial stone and 51, and 61 censuses as about 1796 and her place of birth from the same sources as Woolfardsworthy (West). So I would love help in finding her parents and if possible baptism and siblings.
I also have a Grace DARK born about 1825 in Abbotsham she married Joseph BALE again I have their family and know from the marriage that her father was John DARK a labourer
Hope you can help :). if you would like the data of them after marriage let me know.
Trees
-
Trees
I will lookup the info later. I think I have her parents, gparents etc, but not her children.
Jo
-
Many thanks Jo,
You can get the Bale family from my website under McMullin line warning its very long ;D I think the children of Grace DARK and Joseph BALE are on there The children of James BALE and Mary nee DARK were John 1812,Mary 1814, Elizabeth 1817, Harriet 1820, James 1826, Maria1831, Jane 1833. all baptised in Parkham I'll send the Baptisms and weddings later must dash out now will write later
Trees
-
Hi MMMandy & Trees
Firstly Mandy, I am sorry but I can not find anything for you at the moment, except I can confirm that Joseph & Mary Dark(nee Pooley) did Not have a son called Joseph.
I wish you luck with you DARK research- they really are a confusing lot because of the common usage of names. After 10 years I am still trying to work out some of the relationships
I also apologise for having hijacked your posting - I have sent a PM to Trees with the info on Mary Dark.
Jo
-
My apologies too Milly Molly Mandy will keep my eyes peeled for you too. Many Thanks for the PM Jo
-
No problem at all. I am just very grateful for any information that may be of help to me.
Thanks.
MMM ;) ;)
-
Hello again,
I have now obtained a copy of the Marriage Certificate of Joseph Dark and Jane Dark who would appear more likely to be the parents of my Annie/Ann, and both resided in Buckland Brewer (her birthplace) at the time of their marriage. They were married at the Register Office in Bideford on 3 January 1855. Joseph was aged 25, a farm servant, and no father's name was given. Jane was aged 20, a glover, and her father's name was John Arnold, a bargeman. The witnesses were Thomas Snell and John Parr. Can anyone help to find the name of Joseph's father and let me know any more about Annie/Ann please?
MMM ??? ??? ???
-
Hi MMM
Nice to see you again ... have to re-aquaint myself with Annie Dark and family . Hopefully we can find some info for you ....
Don't give up yet ... LOL
deb :)
-
There is a Ann Dark, aged 10 b Buckland Brewer living with her parents Joseph and Jane in 1871. Also siblings ...one of her brother's is a Gardener, Joseph is an Ag lab.
there is a marriage of Joseph Dark to either a Jane Arnold or Jane Hookway in 1855 , Bideford.
ummm cannot find Joseph in 1891 ....
deb :-\
I am still trying to remember all of this ...so Annie Dark's parents were Joseph and Jane and NOT Ellen ?
deb
-
Hi again MMM
I have found John Arnold , the bargeman in 1851 with wife Betsy and jane ...it appears Betsy ,the wife, may have been married before as their are step children.
will post details shortly
deb ;D
-
Hello again,
I have now obtained a copy of the Marriage Certificate of Joseph Dark and Jane Dark who would appear more likely to be the parents of my Annie/Ann, and both resided in Buckland Brewer (her birthplace) at the time of their marriage. They were married at the Register Office in Bideford on 3 January 1855. Joseph was aged 25, a farm servant, and no father's name was given. Jane was aged 20, a glover, and her father's name was John Arnold, a bargeman. The witnesses were Thomas Snell and John Parr. Can anyone help to find the name of Joseph's father and let me know any more about Annie/Ann please?
Please can anyone help me? On the quoted Marriage Certificate of 1855, Joseph's place of residence at the time of marriage was 'Beara', Buckland Brewer. Is Beara actually a place/village?
I have found reference to a 'Bearah' in Buckland Brewer on the 1861 Devon Census RG 9/1504 with the 'Hamlyn' family residing there. I have also found on the internet a place called 'Beara Farmhouse' (The Old Shippon), Buckland Brewer. Could the 'Beara' on the marriage certificate be this farmhouse?
MillyMollyMandy :) :)
MMM ??? ??? ???
-
Hi MMM
so sorry I have not gotten back to you .... :-[ :-\
I will find them again ...and post asap
deb
-
Hi again
In 1861
Buckland Brewer
Orleigh Lodge
Joseph DARK 31 ag lab
Jane 24 glover
Reuben 6
Thomas 4
Orleigh Lodge is on the page before the Hamlyns who are living at Bearah, which is most probably the name of the farm ... so joseph is not too far away from where he was residing in 1855.
will search some more
deb
-
Hello Deb,
Thanks for that.
On Joseph and Jane's Marriage Certificate, no mention is made of Joseph's father's name. Would this have meant that he was illegitimate? If he was deceased, surely it would have mentioned this. Any ideas please?
MMM :) :)
-
Hi MMM
in 1851
Monkleigh
Rudd
John ARNOLD 5? bargeman b Ashreigney
Betsy wife 37 b Wear Gifford
JANE 14 Glover b Monkleigh
Anne 6 scholar b "
William 4 b monkleigh
Charles 2 months b "
Jane BLIGHT step daughter 14 glover b Wear Gifford
Betsy " " " 12 glover b "
Harriet Jones vistor unm 18 glover
will search for Joseph Dark in 1851... Joseph was b c 1830 will look for him in 1841 and 51 ....
deb :)
deb
-
I have looked on IGI and cannot find Joseph b c 1830
in 1841 ...this may be him with his family
Parkham
cannot make out name of farm
Thomas Dark farmer 40 Y
Miriam 38 Y
Thomas 13 Y
john 11 Y
Joseph 7 Y ...his age still does not add up to b c 1830
Thirza 3 Y
Ellen1 Y
'up the road at another farm'
Joseph DARK farmer 35 Y
rebecca 30 Y
Mary 9 Y
Louisa 7 Y
John 5 Y
/
John Dark 15 Y
arrrgghhhhh
deb :-\
added ...In the 1861 Joseph was b Parkham and Jane in Monkleigh
-
Hello again,
I don't think this is the Joseph in question. If you look back at my initial query, I have a copy of Joseph Dark's and Mary Pooley's Marriage Cert. dated 5 October, 1861. They were both residing in Woolfardisworthy. Thomas was named as Joseph's father. I think we ruled this Joseph out. It's getting very confusing again!
MMM ;) ;)
-
hi again
yep I am a little confused..
okay we have Anne Dark/t born 1862 who ends up marrying George Spiller ... her dad on marriage cert state Joseph Dark as her dad.
we then have a 1861 and 1871 census of Anne's parents ...Joseph Dark and Jane Arnold who married 1855. Joseph in 1861 staes he was born Parkham and jane Arnold was b Monkleigh.
so the Joseph age 7 with Miriam and Thomas is the Joseph who married Mary Pooley in 1861 and not Jane Arnold .....
arrgghh do I have this right ?
deb
-
wooohoooo MMM
found him under Joseph DAVK
In 1841 he is in Buckland Brewer working for Farmer Hamlyn at BEARAH , he is 12 , MS and born in county.
still no parents .... arrghhhh ...
deb ;D
-
hi MMM
I am having trouble finding him , Joseph Dark, that is ,in 1851 ...I checked in with farmer Hamlyn at Bearah and he is not there or in the area ....
ummm will keep looking ...shall we look further back on Jane Arnold and family ...
deb :)
-
if you go to Genuki for Buckland brewer you find a directory transcript with this extract
HAMLYN James, farmer, Thorne
HAMLYN Samuel, farmer, Barah
HARDING William, baker and shopkeeper
HARRIS Robert, farmer, The Barton
HAWKINS Richard, carpenter
HEAL Lawrence, farmer, Buda
JENKINS James, farmer, Ley
three hamlets are linked to BB but no Barah or variation so it does look like a farm name
Trees
-
Hello again,
Thanks Deb USA and Trees for your information, it's much appreciated. I wonder where Joseph could have been at the time of the 1851 Census, he seems to have disappeared!
I will see what more I can find on Jane Arnold and family Deb. Maybe that might shed some light.
MMM :) :) :)
-
Hi MMM
in 1851
Monkleigh
Rudd
John ARNOLD 5? bargeman b Ashreigney
Betsy wife 37 b Wear Gifford
JANE 14 Glover b Monkleigh
Anne 6 scholar b "
William 4 b monkleigh
Charles 2 months b "
Jane BLIGHT step daughter 14 glover b Wear Gifford
Betsy " " " 12 glover b "
Harriet Jones vistor unm 18 glover
deb
Hi MMM
In 1841
Monkleigh
Salterns Cottage
John ARNOLD ag lab
Anna ARNOLD 15 Glover
Eliza " 10
JANE 5
So it looks like her mum had already died...
The only IGI christening I can find is
Eliza ARNOLD 5 feb 1832
Parents ; John Arnold and Ann
there is an IGI submitted entry for Jane but it states that her mum is Betsy ... which looks like someone has just submitted it from the info on 1851.
deb
-
Hi
Found Betsy Blight, 25, in Wear Gifford with her two daughters June/Jane, 4 and Betsy 2. She is a glover and they are transcribed under the name BRIGHT.
trying to find the marriage of john Arnold to a Betsy Blight and one for his first marriage to Ann..
deb
-
In 1861
Buckland Brewer
Orleigh Lodge
Joseph DARK 31 ag lab
Jane 24 glover
Reuben 6
Thomas 4
Orleigh Lodge is on the page before the Hamlyns who are living at Bearah, which is most probably the name of the farm ... so joseph is not too far away from where he was residing in 1855.
Just thinking out loud again ... His son was named Reuben , which to me sounds quite unique ...
I found this on IGI , extracted record
Christening;
Reuben Squire DARK
11 Dec 1808
Bideford
Mother; Susanna Dark
Cannot find anything else on him on IGI or on census records .... will look some more
deb
-
Maybe this will confuse the issue a bit more...I have a John Darke wed to Mary Marsh c 1813 in Black Torrington, Devon.
Her parents were John Marsh b 1757 Buckland Brewer, Devon and Mary Farmer