RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: Alandal on Friday 28 December 07 20:09 GMT (UK)
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One of many Hales in Kent, EJH was born in Chatham in 1867 and she is found in Chatham in 1871 with her parents and again in Chatham in 1881 with her elder married sister Harriet Lowdell.
After 1881 we cannot find her death and the only possible Marriage is :
Marriages Mar 1886
BULLINARIA Florence Gravesend 2a 557
HALES Emma Jane Gravesend 2a 557
LEIGH James Gravesend 2a 557
NOAKES John Gravesend 2a 557
; but cannot trace any of the four people in 1891 or 1901 to find out who married who and any resulting family.
Any ideas please ?
Thanks
Al & Al
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HALES Emma Jane age 22 Uppingham.7a 200 Q2 1888
there was this death (age fits) but why whould you Emma be in Leicestershire?
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could this be her in 1891?
RG12 658 53 56
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Toni,
Must admit - had only been looking in Kent as all of her family lived and died there - but it is a possibility.
We would like to know who the EMJ was that got married in Gravesend to rule it out (or in) of the equation. Having just checked the Medway Certificate site, it would appear that the Marriage was to James Leigh (and not the John Noakes).
Thanks
Al & Al
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i looked to see if an Emma Leigh died in between 1886 & 1891 (also Emma Noakes) there were not many but the ages didn't match.
if her husband died in those years she could have remarried again, but i can't find a death for him either.
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could this be her in 1891?
RG12 658 53 56
Do you mean Emma Hayes ? If so it says she is a daughter of Henry Abbott, whereas her Dad - George Hales is still alive (just to be sure - the siblings do not match either)
Next .......
Thanks
Al & Al
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yes but did you actually see the image?
admittedly it does look like Hayes but her father was Henry Hayes, he also had another daughter with him who was widowed (and older than Emma) that is where the name Abbot came from.
have you done a one name search for her?
i.e Emma b. 1867 Chatham Kent? there are lots of options but you may be able to rule some out just like that
what was her ocupation in 1881?
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Must admit, we missed that the Heads name was also Hayes, but as advised, Dad George Hales (born 1830 Stockbury) is still alive in '81, '91 and '01 censuses - in the same house (59 Henry Street, Chatham). Can also advise that whilst there are eight brothers/sisters, none are Minnie of that age/married name.
Unfortunately she was only 14 in 1881 census and with no occupation, but have tried working thru the various Emma's born Chatham, without success.
Will keep looking again now with a married name of "Leigh",
Thanks,
Al & Al
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its difficult with all the variants of Leigh / Lee/ Lea etc.
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Emma Jane Hales 19 father George married James Leigh age 21 father William Jan 18 1886 St James Gravesend Record can be found on City Ark register item 10 marriages 1877-1900 image #372.
There is a James Leigh b Sunridge Kent in 71/81census that could be the groom but I can't find him in 1891/01 .
I am interested in all Kent Hales.
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Alta,
Thanks for your confirmation that EJH did marry James Leigh - it's good to know we are going down the correct path.
We too are interested in all 'Hales' from Kent and have in excess of 400 members of the family collated.
Please let us know if you need any help with the same,
Regards,
Al & Al
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Hi.
I noticed the post from Alandal on 31st Dec 2007 which mentioned having data in excess of 400 family members of the Hales.
My grandmother was Sarah Eliza Masters Hale (spelt Hales on her marriage certificate). She married Fred Muggridge 29th August 1891 at Southborough. A local newspaper report of her funeral in 1933 q4 mentions John Hale (cited as a brother) as a mourner.
I believe I have her family in the 1881 census:
John Hale head at Folkestone upholster aged 35 from Newington
Mary wife aged 35 from Folkestone
Sarah daughter aged 14 from Folkestone
John son aged 12 from Folkestone
Henry son aged 10 from Folkestone
William son aged 5 from Folkestone
By 1991 the family is still at a different address in Folkestone. The son John has left the household, and Sarah is at a different address as a servant.
There is a birth record for John senior registered Hackney 1845 q1.
I cannot locate the family in 1871 or reliably locate John in earlier census records. Any further information that you have about John Hale, his family, or the surname of his wife Mary would be very much appreciated. I can naturally provide pretty full information on the subsequent life of Sarah and her descendants if that is of interest to you.
Regards
Alan Muggridge
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Alan,
Whilst your Hale family has no "S" - we have found the John Hale mentioned, in the 1871 Census under reference RG10 1014 Folio 90 Page 59
However his wife is shown as Elizabeth, who looks like she died in the quarter ending Sept 1872. John must have married Mary after then.
Will let you know if we find any further information for you,
Al & Al
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Alan
John Hale Snr is shown as born Newington Middlesex (not Kent) in 1871 and using that information have found him in 1851 Census (Stoke Newington) with parents of James and Sarah, along with two brothers and two sisters (HO107, 1503, Folio 115, Page 39
We would recommend that you obtain the marriage/birth Certificates for John Hale to ensure you are going down the right family line
Al & Al
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Hi Al and Al.
Thanks indeed for your prompt replies. It is Monday morning in Australia, so I'll have to wait until later in the day to look at them in detail and respond.
Regards
Alan
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Hi Al and Al.
Sorry not to have responded to you. I've been working on another thread, and as the temperature here is still around 40 C at 9.30pm I'm just about out of steam tonight. (I did promise myself about three months ago that I'd get the aircon fixed before summer).
I've found the 1851 census entry ok, and that looks pretty plausible. My current subscription is the web site TheGenealogist, and it doesn't seem to offer me a search by reference numbers. Would you be able to give me the county in which the 1871 entry was reported?
To be brutally honest the possibility of a remarriage on the part of my great grandfather had just not occurred to me - you really need to consider all possibilities don't you?
Thanks again
Alan Muggridge
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Alan,
Their Address in 1871 was 16 Queen Street, Folkestone, Kent with the following :
John 26 Upholsterer
Elizabeth 24
Elizabeth 5
Sarah 4
John 2
Henry 4 months
Hope you can track them down now,
Al & Al
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Thanks Alandal.
I've just spent an hour trying all the wildcard and variant options I can think of on my current subscription service and not got a sniff of that family in 1871. I'll be considering that quite strongly when the subscription expires in March - might be time for a switch back.
However, you have considerably clarified the matter for me - the family you describe is clearly mine - thanks indeed!
Are you finding that Hales and Hale are quite distinct, or are both forms appearing in your family? I ask because my grandmother was recorded as Hales on her marriage certificate, although my father's name was John James Hale Muggridge, and the form Hale appears everywhere else
Regards
Alan
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Alan,
We have sent you a PM regarding the 1871 census and with regards to the "Hale" & "Hales" names, other than mis-spelling/transcriptions, the names do not appear to be inter-changeable.
Al & Al
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Hiya Alta
I'm Jennifer Leigh and in resuming family tree tracing in the computer age (I stopped doing it in 1993) I just did a google search on my great grandmother's name which is Emma Jane Hales from Kent and she indeed married a James William Leigh. She and he on their honeymoon emigrated to Australia and I'm a direct descendent of theirs. James and Emma left England on the TAGLIAFERRO landed in Rockhampton on the 12.3.1887
Before I gave up family tree tracing in the mid 1990's I had established that Emma and various numbers of her children made at least 4 trips back to the UK, staying there for varying lengths of time. I suspect her family must have paid for her and the childrens' passage.
Just to further confirm she is the same one you want to know about - her father was George Henry Hales (& reported to be a butcher) and mother was Emily Brooks ?. My EJH was born in Chalk Pit Hill, Chatham, Kent, UK on 2.7.1867. If she is the same one you are looking for then she lived a full life and died in Mt Morgan, Queensland, Australia on 29.7.1960.
What's your interest in EJH assuming it is the same one?
Look forward to hearing from you
Cheers
Jen
Emma Jane Hales 19 father George married James Leigh age 21 father William Jan 18 1886 St James Gravesend Record can be found on City Ark register item 10 marriages 1877-1900 image #372.
There is a James Leigh b Sunridge Kent in 71/81census that could be the groom but I can't find him in 1891/01 .
I am interested in all Kent Hales.
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Jen,
Many thanks for your posting, I had forgotten how long ago that I was looking into this family and yes, this is the same family with George being a Butcher in Chatham as shown in the 1881, 1891 & 1901 Census. I was able to track down the marriage of Emma and James Leigh and their subsequent emigration a few years ago, so it is good that you have confirmed the same.
My connection with the Hales is via my Mothers family and having started a number of years ago, I decided to branch out to all of the connecting Kent Hales and create a One Name collection.
There is still one child of George Hales that I have been unable to trace and this is Anne (born in 1859) who I have been unable to trace after the 1871 Census – do you know where she went, who she married etc ?
If you require any details concerning the Kent Hales, please let me know.
Thanks,
Al
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Hiya Al
Am I excited! I phoned on Sunday my 2nd cousin who is born and lives in Mt Morgan to talk about your email, and Rosie too is excited. When I read out your response she then told me that Grannie Leigh (as we know her - you EJH) also corresponded with her brother who emigrated to Canada. You know doubt know about him.
Rosie knows this as due to her mother's early death it was Grannie Leigh who raised her, her younger brother and along with her father all 4 lived together until Rosie left home on her marriage and even then they linked as Rosie set up house beside Grannie Leigh. Due to EJH's long life, Rosie has both child and adult memories and conversations with her. This reality totally escaped me until we were talking about your reply.
I would simply love anything you have on the Hales and in turn I will send you what I have on EJH including photos.
You mentioned this was your mother's lineage - what was her name and am I right that she must be a sister to EJH? What is this one name thingy too please? I'm new to roots.com and indeed online family tree tracing.
Having found your email and had such success I will be resuming my family tree tracing for certain.
Many thanks for being willing to share and I look forward to hearing more about how we each fit in the Hales 'zoo'.
cheers
Jen
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Jen,
Apologies for the delay in my reply, but unfortunately work gets in the way of genealogy!
Whilst we are related (Emma Jane Hales being a first cousin, twice removed of my mother), the common ancestor goes back to a James Hales born 1802 in Hartlip, Kent who is Emma’s Grandfather and my mothers Great Great Grandfather.
I decided to do a One-Name study of the Kent Hales Surname (i.e. to research the genealogy and family history of all persons with a given surname) as going back through generations there appeared to be a large number of Hales in the Kent area and I wanted to see how they all related – resulting to date, in having over 1,000 connected Hales !
If you would like more details concerning your ‘branch’ of the Hales family, please let me know.
Al
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Hiya Alan
this is my 2nd go at replying to your email, as the previous version had problems sending an attachment.
I fully understand the issue of work getting in the way - I too am in the same place and already the desire to restart family tracing in the computer age is falling to the side of work pressures. I work for myself, so its very much a case of no work no income, so it is often a priority more than it should be.
Thanks for the info on which part of the tree you come through from. Wow, effectively 2 generations back from Emma. You must have done the most amazing amount of work to tackle all the Hales in Kent. What an undertaking and I feel very humbled as your commitment.
I would simply love to have anything on my branch you are willing to share. In the 1st email I attached what I have done, but the file size, even zipped was too big. By any chance to you use dropbox or some other form of large file transfer software? If so I'm happy to use this method to get my 'stuff' (poor no doubt in comparison to your opus) to you.
By the way, do you live in the UK? Surely you must to make accessing records etc that much easier.
I and Rosie are loving the thought of what might be coming our way.
We would be very appreciative of whatever you could send us.
Look forward to your next email
Cheers and thanks
Jen
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Hiya Alan
I haven't heard from you since my reply ( 15th January) to your response.
Did it come through but work is in the way?
I was wondering if you were at all interested in meeting up, as I will be in the UK later this year from 27th Oct to 9th Nov. I would dearly love to meet you and at this meeting perhaps we could exchange our information. As I will have a hire car I can come to you where ever you are.
As per my previous reply my file is too big for roots chat but am very happy to send it via something like drop box or similar.
I am also still interested in obtaining whatever information you might have on Emma Jane Hales' family.
cheers
Jen