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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: Lolita on Wednesday 26 December 07 23:05 GMT (UK)
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I am seeking the birth parents of Maria Nightingale Walthew who was born in Dublin c 1838. I know that her mother was Maria Walthew (nee Hall) who was born in Gt Yarmouth in 1805 but the father of Maria Nightingale escapes me. As I haven't been able to trace the family in England until 1881 it suggests to me that they may have been in Ireland prior to that. Also I have not been able to trace any death records for Walthews in England and since Maria the mother was a widow in 1881 in England it is likely that the father of Maria Nightingale Walthew died in Ireland. Any suggestions would be helpful.
Lolita
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Children of Matthew Cranswick & Maria Nightongale (Walthew) Greenhill:
1. Edith Harriette Cranswick Greenhill born 1 July 1865 Donnybrook, Co.Dublin
2. Cranswick Walthew Greenhill born 25 May 1868 Co.Dublin
3. Maude Nightingale Greenhill born 8 May 1873 Antrim, Co.Antrim
Maria Walthew d.1895 Lambeth (age 89).
1881 census- Lambeth, London lists Matthew C. Greenhill as telegraph engineer. Wife Maria N. (43) & children Edith H.C. (15) and Cranswick W. (12) born in Dublin with daughter Amy A.N. (4) born Belfast.
1891 census- Brixton, London still shows Maria, Edith, Cranswick & Anny born in Ireland.
Sounds like there might be a military connection here to bring mother Maria Hall from Gt. Yarmouth to Ireland where she had at least 1 child Maria c1838. Later daughter Maria marries a telegraph engineer (do you have that marriage as it should list her father's name?) and has several children in Dublin area and then at least 2 in Antrim/Belfast area.
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Thank you for this information. No, I don't have the marriage of Maria who married Mathew Greenhill. I have not been able to find any evidence of the marriage in England nor of her mother's marriage for that matter. I live in New Zealand and was hoping to find Irish BMD's available online, alas I have not yet found what I am looking for.
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A little further information has come to hand. the father of Maria Nightingale Walthew was George Molyneux. He was a hatter in Dublin and produced the coast guards caps and also was designated hatter to the Lord Ltnt of Ireland. It has been suggested, although no proof, that George may have been the child of a younger son of the Earl of Sefton whose family name is Molyneux. It will be interesting to follow up on this. I also found a marriage on the GRO Ioanian Military Registrations 1818-1864, page 1 of 1, Hadaway-Herring on the "findmypast" site for Maria Hall, Dublin but could not find George Walthew. My contact thinks they were married in 1833.
Lolita
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You probably already have this:
Walthew
George M., 13 College green and Park avenue cottage, Sandymount (hatter to His Excellency the Lord Lieutenant and cap manufacturer to the Coast Guard of Ireland)
From Shaw's Dublin City Directory of 1850
http://www.dublin1850.com
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Thank you Dublin 1850
I had the information but had not seen the source itself.
Lolita
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Hi Lolita, I am descended from Maria Nightingale Walthew. She had a sister Harriet Caroline Walthew if u wld like details.
Their mother Maria Hall was born in Gt Yarmouth, dtr of Wm Hall, a baker, and Elizabeth Nightingale. She had 2 sisters if u are interested. I have not been able to trace Wm Hall's parentage but think Elizabeth Nightingale was dtr of Samuel Nightingale and Ann Pashby of Gt Yarmouth.
Re George Molyneux Walthew - he died in Dublin 6 Jan 1870 age 70 (info from obit in Freemans Journal - Irish newspaper)
He was indeed a hatter and general pillar of Dublin society. His business was at 13 College Green, Dublin and lived at Norfolk Cottage, Park Avenue, Sandymount, Donnybrook, Dublin.
He married Maria Hall in 1833 but there no marriage cert survives only a short record on a list apparently.
The legend came down my family too that he was descended from the Earl of Sefton but I have found no link to prove it.
All I know for sure is that he was related to some other Walthews who lived in Anglesey, North Wales. One of these Walthews was actually mayor of Holyhead. I know this because my father was born in Anglesey while his father (Cranswick Walthew Greenhill) was bldg a road there for the Walthews.
It has been suggested he could have been born in Stockport, nr Manchester. Stockport was a hatting town and full of Walthes, but I have nfound no definite proof of that either
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He married Maria Hall in 1833 but there no marriage cert survives only a short record on a list apparently.
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The marriage is before the start of Civil record so there will be no cert, but there is a parish record. Georges surname has been mistranscribed as part of the address - see :
Marriage of George Molyneux Walthew and Maria Hall - 4 Sept 1833 (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/a5d9980890434)
Parish of St. George, Dublin City (Church of Ireland)
You can also view an image of the original register page on that link
Shane
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Thanks Shane, that is great. It would have been greater still if they had entered their parents in the parish record but there you are.
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hi,
new to this particular message board, so quick intro.
Paul Barrett, studing my personal family tree approxamately 5 yrs. Current interests.;
I am predomantley of protestant english and irish heritage, except for 1 marriage of G Grand on mothers side who married an Irish Catholic daughter of a farmer in Gippsland Victoria Australia.
Annie Kenndy. Her Grandfather was a Hugh Kennedy, Born 1809 Knocknemerough, Ireland, transported to Australia for 7 years for Larceny.
His wife Jane Fox, maried in Doon Limmerick, 1834. Jane received free passage to Tasmania with her children Mary B 1843, Andrew B1845 Hugh B 1846 (died infant) Jeriamiah B1847, born Tipperary and Limmerick. James B1860 port Sorrell, Vic
I am currently researching some additions to this family that has popped up on Ancestry, including nephews and nieces that have turned up in Australia, Both in Gippsland Victoria and Kilmore in Victoria. A difficult task that has me looking at potentially unrelated families in the region.
I have found a link with a family between the 2 areas, that at the moment seems not a dirrect relationship, but I am suspicious.
Parantage for these 2 children are William Kennedy Married Anne Walthew.
Children;
Edward B 1824 Tipperary.
John B 1835 Tipperary.
Edward lived close by to my ancestors, but died unmarried in 1878, age sixty, felling a tree on his property. Inquest and death have death cert and will Buried under the catholic rite, john was witness at burial.
In his will he left his farm to a brother John of Broadford Victoria. I have located John. Married a Anne Sheedy, in Melbourne at the Catholic Church under the catholic rite. 1858. ( Edward reports being in Victoria from 1866, no mention of a stay in Tasmania, although that may not have been disclosed).
Living next door to John Kennedy in Broadford, is Rody Kennedy of Donnybrook. I believe that Rody was a convict sent out on Duke of Richmond 1844, sentenced to seven years, reason Unk at this stage. Rody Married a Margaret Shedy, which was how I uncovered John, due to the mother / wife name, similarity.
Looking for any more information on the Walthew name in Ireland. I can see that there was;
"Walthew Mich. Rossaguile Killoscully Tipperary"
"Walthew Michael Rossaguile Killoscully Tipperary"
"Walthew Michl. Rossaguile Killoscully Tipperary"
"Walthew Winifred Rossaguile Killoscully Tipperary"
"Griffiths valuation ireland"
This area is predominately where my Kennedys originated from, according to the research of From "Bun Ciamalta Vale to New South Wales" [Paperback]. Roger Kennedy (Author)
also;
"Irish Kennedys" Brian Kennedy.
Have already picked up new links from this terrific site. Would appreciate any help with Catherine Walthew of Tipperary, and her family. Also William Kennedy her husband
Thanks in anticipation, (marriage cert of John attached)
Cant locate his death yet.
Regards,
Paul Barrett
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I am researching Walthews and allied families.
I am not sure of the Anne reflected above, but the molyneux family is long associated with the walthews.
They come out of the Wigan area predominantly, though there are pockets in Warwick/staffordshire and around London.
The further south you go, the more the name is spelled WALTHO or WATHOE, but there appears to be some links.
I have been trying to link the William Walthew family from Anglesey back to either the Lancashire or Cheshire families.
The Lancashire families are related to the Syers, the Hollands, The Molyneux the markland, among others. In lancashire the family seems to originate in the Wigan area about 1550, and earlier than that a group in Kirkham in the 1515's.
In Cheshire there are records around Nantwich from 1515 , moving to Chester by the later 1500's.
The Walthews in London are derived from the Wigan Walthews, but also seem to be linked to the Walthews from Stowe.
The early spelling is often phonetic, and varies from Walthewe to Walthooe for the same person in different records.
There are Walthews around sefton and Huyton about the mid 1700's and there is an anne daughter of Roger, but that is all I have
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hi there,
nice to here on the Walthews Walto. It appears that my Walto were from Nenah in Tipperary. Not sure on the early history yet of there time in Ireland, but suspect that they may have fleed to the hills of Keeper, Tipperary for Refuge, an early royalist family in ireland abt 1635?
They were certainly at Newport in Tipperary prior to 1795, were the birth of Catherine is registered at the Newport, RC Church. Parents Jacob Walto and Catherine Fitzgerald. Sibling Michael, Jacob and Edward. ( suprising but thes eearly records, including the children of Catherine and William are available at the RC Church)
Catherine Married a William Kennedy, Born 1795, possibly the son of William Kennedy and Bridget Ryan. Not sure where this William fits into Clan Kennedy, but his the same generation as my 5 x Great Grandfather Long Andrew Kennedy from Tour.
They resided at Bleanbeg, they can be seen on the Griffiths valuation for Kilanarth, North Tipperary, think also the religous cencus, what? 1776?
Catherine had many children, some of who migrated to australia, mainly Edward and John to date. Possibly Catherine, all children of William Kennedy.
At this point in time, i have not investigated the marriages of Catherines Siblings, but will do one day.
I believe that the Edward Kennedy that came to australia was part of the early influx to Victoria Australia, he had a cousin, my 3 x G Grandfather and 2 nephews and a niece, all came after his arrival.
Thats about all I have, hope it is of some help.
Regards,
Paul Barrett
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Hi Paul, I read with interest your discussions on the Walthew family. I am descended from the Walthew's (now called Waltons) in Rossaguile, Tipperary. I was interested in learning more of where this name came from as it appears pretty unusual in Ireland. You mentioned about perhaps this family escaping to Keeper.. do you have any evidence of this or is it more of a theory? Any help would be great,
regards
Ruby
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George Molyneux Walthew was (acc to his obit) born 1799 but not sure where. His parents were William Walthew, a mariner, & Mary Molyneux who married 24.07.1798 at St Annes Richmond, Liverpool. U can find their marriage on the Lancashire Online Parish Clerks Project which is free to use.
Their wedding entry gave no parents for either but the only witness listed was a John Molyneux who, I suspect, was Mary's father but no proof.
Wm & Mary had the following children: 1) George Molyneux Walthew (2) William Walthew b.1800 (3) Mary Mason Walthew b.1804 (4) John Walthew b.1806 and (5) Martha Wilson Walthew b.1808. The 4 younger children all born in Holyhead on Anglesey but couldn't find George Molyneux Walthew listed on Anglesey records so he may have been born Liverpool or elsewhere, even possibly at sea.
I think Mary's father was John because of the traditional naming pattern - eldest son after paternal grandfather, 2nd son after father and 3rd son after maternal grandfather and on same basis this would suggest that William's father may have been a George Walthew.
I have marriage info for George's 2 sisters and brother Wm but no info at all on his yngest brother John.
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Following on from my comments yesterday it wld seem logical to look for a George Walthew of suitable dates who might be William's father. There is also a hint, in that George Molyneux Walthew became a hatter, that there may be a hatting tradition in the family. There is a George Walthew, hatter and tea dealer,of 71 Oldhall Street listed in Gores directory of Liverpool 1796.
There is also a George Walthew who married (acc to IGI) Sarah Ritson on 9.12.1793 at St Thomas, Park Street, Liverpool. Unfortunately the Lancashire Online Parish Clerks Project does not cover marriages at St Thomas in 1793 but there is a child, Mary Walthew, born 12.08.1795 and xnd 24.08.1796 at St Thomas, Park Street, who is described as 3rd dtr of George Walthew, hatter of Dale Street, Liverpool, and Sarah, formerly Wallace afterwards Ritson, his wife.This suggests that Sarah was a widow, maiden name Wallace previously married to a Ritson. But I think there may be a mistake here and that George may have married 2 Sarahs in succession. I have my reasons but as I have now lost the reference I will have to get back on it.
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OK have found the reference. It was on Ancestry under 'Search all records' - George Walthew. The Bishops Transcripts list George Walthew, draper, m Sarah Ritson, spinster of this parish (says Britson but when u look at original doc looks more like Ritson) 9th Dec 1793 Liverpool. So someone has it wrong. Was Sarah a spinster or a widow?
Also on Bishops Transcripts is a child, George, xnd 15.04.1794 at St Thomas, Liverpool to George Molyneux and Sarah Ritson.
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And finally at St James, Toxteth, we have the following:
1) Sarah, dtr of late George Walthew & Sarah died 17 July 1800, buried 19 July 1800, age 3yrs 5mnts
2) George Walthew, linen and woolen draper, died 7 Sep 1797 buried 9.09.1797
3) Sarah, relict of George Walthew, draper of Bolton Street, died 12.03.1801, buried 15.03.1801, age 37.
Irritatingly, no age is given for George, so was he an old guy who married a much younger bride, or was he of an age with Sarah and therefore born around 1860ish? If the latter he could be our William's brother. If the former cld be our Wm's father. Or he cld be no close relation at all. Anyone any ideas on the subject?