RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: grandarog on Wednesday 26 December 07 10:58 GMT (UK)
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Hello ,
Could one of you kind folk look for my great Uncle Charles James Waghorn Bn. 1868/9. Apparently there is a Charles Waghorn listed but of the wrong age, hopefully there are more.
I am still trying to find out when and where he arrived in Australia,ref my previous post.
Hope you all had a great Christmas,
Best Wishes Rog.
.
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Here is a link to the previous post that Rog's has referred to above
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,274536.msg1585297.html#msg1585297
cheers
cando
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Thanks Cando,
Where would we be without you Aristocrats? (I havn't worked out how to insert Links yet.)
Would you or any one else possibly be able to access the Ships Deserters Register South Australia 1867-1921 and check if Charles is mentioned on there for me Please.
Also do you know if it would have been a viable fiddle to avoid a paying passage, to say one was only 16 when actually 25 ,to get to Australia in 1893.
If the passport application For Charles Waghorn on Find my Past gives Father and Mother as John and Caroline it could be him.
At the moment it looks unlikely as there are 3 Charles Waghorns on the 1891 Census here who would have been 16 in 1893.
We live in hopes of a break through.
Hope you had a nice Christmas Cando and I wish you a Happy and Prosperous New Year.
Rog.
PS the picture is of my Grandfather John Waghorn ,Charles's Brother.
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Hi - I have 2 examples in my tree with wrong ages in the shipping records.
One of them had my relative 10 years younger and in the other record of a diffrent relative they were 10 years older. - I know that it is them from the amount of time in the colony and the ship name on their death certicate.
I don't know why though - Maybe it did have something to do with the cost.
Happy New Year
Meggles
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Me again,
Just a top up nudge to keep my plea going. Still hoping someone can help.
Happy New Year ,to you all,
Rog.
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Hello All,
Still hoping one of you kind folk has access to
Ships Deserters Register ,South Australia 1867-1921
. (or any other relevant data that can help solve my query) and can PLEASE look up to see if My Grandfathers Brother is listed.
Charles James Waghorn
Bn 1868 East Sutton Kent UK
Thanks Rog.
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Hi there Rog
I am sure a rootschatter will eventually pick up your request however as I live over 300kms from the State Archives or SA Library I am unable to help you. If you google ships deserters SA you will see where the fiche/CD are available - mainly in the State capital archives/libraries/genealogical societies. We have a couple of 'chatters in Adelaide but perhaps they are on holidays - summer holiday time here in Aus.
Perhaps you may consider requesting a lookup by SAGHS for a small fee
http://www.saghs.org
There is a request form on their website.
Good luck
cando
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Thank you All,
Still hopeful of a result, just a nudge to stop my post sliding in to oblivion.
Cheers Rog.
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Hello
Still hoping for a brekthrough. Brought to top again for another chance.
Thanks Rog
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Rog,
I'd like to say this is your breakthrough,but I fear it is not!
The passport applications on Find my past say little more than someone's intials and surname.No parents,nothing else, sorry.
There is a 16 year old Charles Waghorn on the ships passnger lists who went to Sydney on 22 Sept 1893,the problem is his parents were 60 year old Oliver a cattleman,and 56 year old Mary- he had a brother 18 year old Herbert.
I will keep looking for you though.
Regards
Carol
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Carol ,
I could kiss you,this is marvelous. I now know for certain that that Charles is not ours. So thats another big chip out of the wall. We knew about him and the Thermopily but did not know about him being with parents .
Thanks a million for your input ,really appreciated.
Rog. :) :D :-* :-* :-*
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Hello All you Kind Folks ,
Just nudging this and my other post up in case someone can break our wall down . It now seems a strong possibility family folklore is true and Charles actually did do a runner from Headcorn, Kent. to Australia arround 1882 when he was 13. My cousin John has this story as well from his end in Aus as we have up here in England.
Thanks Rog :-\
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Rog
I think I have found Caroline in 1871 and John with her in 1861.
Here's his death in Mar 1870 in Hollingbourn Kent
John Waghorn age 48 ref 2a 437
Can't stop now but will be back later .Promise ;)
Do you have acccess to Ancestry?
Regards
Carol
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Right then here we go ;) 1871 census RG10/948 Folio 61 Page: 5
Charles with widowed mum Caroline.At Moray Cottage, East Sutton, Kent.
Caroline Waghorn 42 head, widow laundress b Ulcomb Kent
William Waghorn 18 son, farm baliff b " "
John Waghorn 11 son b East Sutton
Mary Waghorn 7 dau b " "
Esther Waghorn 5 dau b " "
Charles Waghorn 2 son b " "
As I said in my previous posting, dad John seems to have died in 1870.
Carol
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In 1861 the Waghorn's are in Lundy(or Sunday) Street, East Sutton,Kent.
RG9/506 Folio 59 Page 10
John Waghorn head 38 Ag lab b Headcorn Kent
Caroline Waghorn wife 32 b Ulcomb
William Waghorn son 8 scholar b "
Alice Waghorn dau 6 scholar b East Sutton
Annie Waghorn dau 3 b " "
John Waghorn son 1 b " "
Sadly we can only check the ships passenger lists from 1890 here in the UK.
So I think your only option is to look for some of them in Oz.
I'll try and find some of the Waghorn's in 1881 next.
Carol
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Thanks Carol We have all info except for the gap between 1881 and 1898 see earlier items in these posts. Save your time. Charles was with John Honeysett in 1881 at Headcorn.
Ta Rog :)
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This is really odd.
In Hollingbourne in Mar 1874,Caroline appears to remarry.
The 4 names on the page are...
Mary Ann BATES
Charles EVEREST
John HONEYSETT
Caroline WAGHORN
So trying them in 1881,finds at Stone House,Headcorn.
John Honeysett head 59 ag lab b Headcorn
Mary A Honeysett wife 36 b Smarden
Charles Waghorn 12 son in law (usually meaning step son) scholar b East Sutton
Ben S Croucher son in law 10 scholar b Frittenden
Next question is who said they were related to Mary or John? Did the enumerator just presume it?
Maybe Charles couldn't stand this new step dad- old enough to be his grandad ;) and that's why he ran away?
Hmmmmmm,and what happened to Caroline and Charles.
Carol
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Thanks Carol We have all info except for the gap between 1881 and 1898 see earlier items in these posts. Save your time. Charles was with John Honeysett in 1881 at Headcorn.
Ta Rog :)
So what exactly are you trying to find now then?
Carol
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Have linked these two threads previously !
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=274536.new#new
I would suggest that only one be used to save duplicating info
cando
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Hello Carol,
Thanks for your help ,I aready have all the info you took the trouble to so kindly glean for me . Charles widowed mother Caroline married John Honeysett in 1874 and promptly died a few weeks later. John Honneysett then married again to Mary Croucher and still kept Charles and now also his new wifes son Ben as Step Sons. We assume that is probably why Charles got out as soon as he was old enough. Also John Honeysett was Deaf which probably put a strain on relation ships.
As I have said before,what I want/need to Know is when he actually arrived in Australia and how between the last record of him in England on 1881 Census and when he Married in Perth western Aus in 1898.
I have all the details of his life each side of these dates .The brick wall is in the 17 year gap.
Thanks also Cando perhaps you could be kind enough to put these in a single post for me.
Or can I delete these 2 and start with one single again.?
I have only just mastered how to insert a pic. Us dinosaurs take tips from our 9 year and younger Grandchildren.
Thanks to all in case I have missed any one , Roger
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Rog
Are you convinced he went directly to Oz?
I ask because there's a Charles J Waghorn on the New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 on Ancestry,and also one on Boston Passenger Lists, 1820-1943, but I don't have access to view the actual records.
Maybe he just jumped on a ship going anywhere that he viewed as a better option than chilly ole England circa 1882 ;D
Carol
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Hello thee
Now I realise you are looking for when and how he arrived in Australia but did he die here in australia?
If so where?
Have you got his death certificate?
If so does that state how long he was in Australia for?
Regards Jenn
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Hello Jenn,
Thanks ,he did die at Perth WA in 1939. My cousin John has DCert. It only gives his age nothing about where or when he arrived in Australia.
I believe there was a mini Gold Rush arround that1881-1898 era but I dont know exact dates .
That could have been the attraction for Charles! All ideas willingly accepted,we are running out of them.
Thanks Rog :) :) :)
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Rog
Are you convinced he went directly to Oz?
I ask because there's a Charles J Waghorn on the New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957 on Ancestry,and also one on Boston Passenger Lists, 1820-1943, but I don't have access to view the actual records.
Maybe he just jumped on a ship going anywhere that he viewed as a better option than chilly ole England circa 1882 ;D
Carol
and re Ships Deserters Register ,South Australia 1867-1921
Hi there Rog
I am sure a rootschatter will eventually pick up your request however as I live over 300kms from the State Archives or SA Library I am unable to help you. If you google ships deserters SA you will see where the fiche/CD are available - mainly in the State capital archives/libraries/genealogical societies. We have a couple of 'chatters in Adelaide but perhaps they are on holidays - summer holiday time here in Aus.
Perhaps you may consider requesting a lookup by SAGHS for a small fee
http://www.saghs.org
There is a request form on their website.
Good luck
cando
Have you followed up the above suggestions?
Cando
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Cando
Rog PM'd me and said he'd asked on a BBC website???
But none of them were his ???
Regards
Carol
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Now that just leaves the suggestion to contact SAGHS in South Australia for a look up in
Hello All,
Still hoping one of you kind folk has access to
Ships Deserters Register ,South Australia 1867-1921
. (or any other relevant data that can help solve my query) and can PLEASE look up to see if My Grandfathers Brother is listed.
Charles James Waghorn
Bn 1868 East Sutton Kent UK
Thanks Rog.
cando
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Hi Cando,
Thanks very very much for your immense help. I checked the Shipping lists via a lookup request on our BBC Family History Website. Unfortunately none of the CJ or C Waghorn/e were My one.
Some time ago I PM'd Shanko and he kindly checked some shipping lists for me found a few Waghorn/e ,s but no C or CJ.s
I and cousin John in Australia still live in hope something will turn up to place what Charles got up to and where he was during period 1881 to 1898.
Thanks again for your help.
Best Wishes . Rog :) :) :)
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Hi,
I am wondering why you want to know about the 17 year gap........have I missed something reading this post but you have him on the Census' in England, you have his birth, his parents, his marriage in Australia, his death, I am supposing you have children of his marriage.......I am not sure why you are wanting to know about the 17 years in between.......I cannot see the importance of this.....as I said have I missed something reading these posts?
Darren
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Hi Darren,
Thankyou for your concern. The 17 year gap is something we are investigating, as we have no idea why or how he decided, either to cut himself loose from his brothers and sisters in England (his parents had died by then.) Or if he was cast out by his brothers etc over some scandal or fled after a criminal act ,or merely wanted to better himself .
As far as I was aware he was a blank after 1881 as I had never heard of him in my branch of the family .I only found his existence a few years ago by accident when another cousin mentioned there were loads of Waghorns in Western Australia. Consequently I found a CJW marriage in 1898 that looked promising, so on a hunch ,I ordered the cert (at great expense then) but it was worth it. The names of Father and even Mothers Maiden Name confirmed that is was my lost Charles .
I had always thought the stories about a relative in Aus. were about my other Grandfathers Sister and her husband who had emigrated there ,who I knew about.
Technically you are correct,I dont think you have missed the point, the gap years have no bearing on the factual side of the Family tree .
As I have said previously we have complete details of his life before and after the period from his Birth ,being adopted in law by his Step father. Thenraised by him and his new wife after his mother died. Marriage and all his Children right up to his death in 1959 at 90 yrs old.
Since then I and my cousin John in Aus have been trying to solve the enigma of the gap.
Lets face it we all like mysteries thats why we are here on the boards.I appologise if in your opinion ours is a wasted excercise ,but I am really grateful for the interest and grand help that all the kind people here on Roots Chat, Australian and Kent Boards, have given us and will hopefully one day find the answer.
Best Wishes , Roger.
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Hello grandarog this is an old thread so sorry for bumping it up.
My mother is tracing the waghorn family tree and belives that she is a decendent of william one of the older brothers.
Would you mind if we compared notes.
Thanks.
This is my first post so I am unable to PM yet.
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Hi
I am trying to find a connection between the Waghorn family and Grenness in Victoria.
Is there any connection to your branch?
mum mum
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Hello Mum Mum,
We have only just started researching our line so I an not sure where my great grandfathers brothers ended up.
I am a decendent of William Waghorn who immagrated to Australia and lived in Arncliffe NSW.
Sorry I cannot help you at the moment maybe I will have more information soon.
Regards,
Ian
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Hi, Don't know whether this info is of any use to you at all, but i was looking at my family tree on my fathers side and came across some research that someone did for us in the 1980's. The research was done entirely through parish records in and around Kemsing and Seal in Kent, and without the benefit of computers, so is a bit patchy. I was interested in your enquiry because the earliest ancestor i have a record of, is a William Waghorn who was a farm bailiff born in Shipbourne, Kent 1802 and died in 1868, i noticed a William Waghorn, Bailiff in your post. There is also a Charles Waghorn listed, born in 1865 at Kemsing, Kent. He married in 1892, a lady called Alice Fanny Russell. And they had 7 children. the fourth of which was a Charles Ernest Waghorn born in 1899. We have no record of Charles other than his date of birth (22.1.1899). The Waghorn family in Kent is massive, and there are many many strands, which it seems stem from William, but anyway i hope this helps.
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Hi Waggie :),
That was my nickname at school LOL.
I have the data regarding the Kemsing Waghorns as you say there are many Threads of the family my branch is not connected to any of them after 1775 ish. Coincidences of names and dates occur frequently. I have the complete data for my lot from John Waghorn Bn c 1775 somewhere and Married Sarah Chaplin at East Sutton right down to today. Unfortunately I cant get back further from that John as there were 3 or 4 John Waghorns born Kent all born about the same time.
Thanks for your input,Happy New Year ,Rog
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It was my nickname at school too.. :). Seems you may have more info than i have. On the papers i have we have a ?John Waghorn and a Sarah ?? listed as Williams Parents, but the lady who did it was unsure of the names. Inspired me to look deeper. Have a great new year. Many thanks.