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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Derry (Londonderry) => Topic started by: OllieH on Sunday 23 December 07 17:25 GMT (UK)
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Does anyone have any info on Joseph Barr, a farmer in Kilrea in the mid-19th century. His daughter, Margaret, married Daniel McNerlin (a blacksmith from Articlave ) in Finvoy Presbyterian Church in 1871.
Merry Christmas
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Thought the names sounded familiar so I had a look in my files and found this:
Daniel McNerlin, son of Daniel McNerlin & Margaret Barr born 17 June 1881 baptised 4 Sept.1881 Aghadowey Presbyterian Church (by Rev. Hugh Wells).
Note: Rev. Hugh R. Wells from Belfast ordained Aug.1879 Ballywillan Presbyterian Church (retired Nov.1929 & died 27 Apr.1933 age 87)- he may have just been filling in at Aghadowey.
Found this Barr family:
Benjamin Barr (c1831-1 Feb.1920) m. Mary Jane Campbell (c1839-7 June 1919). Buried Finvoy Presbyterian Church.
1. Benjamin Barr (c1867-12 Mar.1885).
2. Thomas Joseph Barr (26 May 1868 Kilrea district).
3. John Barr (26 Aug.1870 Kilrea district).
4. Mary Barr (23 Oct.1872 Kilrea district).
5. Rachel Barr (18 Feb.1875 Kilrea district).
6. James Alexander Barr (27 Dec.1876 Co.Derry).
7. Mary Jane Barr (c1876-16 May 1897).
8. William Archibald Barr (13 May 1879 Kilrea district).
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Also: James McNerlin born 4 Aug.1878 Rasharkin district, son of Daniel & Margaret (Barr).
Note: Rasharkin, Kilrea and Finvoy are all very close to each other & Aghadowey is not far from Kilrea and across the Bann from Finvoy.
Another possible connection?:
James McNerlin born 18 Nov.1865 Articlave district, son of Daniel McNerlin & Frances Kane.
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Question- where do you have the information that Margaret Barr's father was a farmer in Kilrea?
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found this it may not be your joseph. marriage. JOSEPH BARR TO ELIZA JANE IRWIN 23-4-1852 @ KILREA FIRST PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH KILREA, BALLYMONEY, CO. DERRY.
regards mary. :)
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Griffith's Valuation (c1859) gives 2 Joseph Barrs in County Londonderry according to an online index I checked:
Joseph Barr- Curragh
Joseph Barr- Chapel Rd, Kilrea
The Curragh one is not yours but 2nd one in Kilrea is a possiblity.
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This is a great site!
We have been looking for grandad's birthplace for over a year and Aghadowey has found it - the 1881 record. Many thanks. Is there any info on the family's home address?
I'm not so sure about the Barr family : Daniel Sn and Margaret Barr's wedding cert says her father was Joseph and that he was a farmer. However, grandad's middle name was Campbell (as in Mary Jane) and Archibald was the name of one of my uncles. A Thomas Barr was a witness at Daniel and Margaret's wedding, but his middle initial was W (not J).
I already have the info on grandad's brother James (the one born in Rasharkin) - for your info, they are buried together in Smethwick in Staffordshire. I also have found 2 references to Joseph Barr of Kilrea in the Griffith Valuation (via a free search at Ulster Ancestry) although I don't know much about this source - would it be possible to identify the land cocerned?
I would , of course, welcome any further info on the McNerlins and Barrs - in particular,anything on grandad's other siblings (possibly Sandy and Molly) as we belive that we have cousins in Barrow -in-Furness, Cumberland, but don't know whose children they are. There is also some family hearsay that Margaret Barr may have had Scots ancestors ( the Campbell link?).
Once again, many thanks for your help and Merry christmas.
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Aghadowey Presbyterian Committee notes: 31 Dec.1880 "Dan McNerlin to get sitting in Frank Millikens [pew]." 1893 Frank Millican sitting in pew 30 (pews and numbers were later changed).
The baptism for Daniel in 1881 does not give a townland (earlier baptisms showed townland but not mother's name). If Daniel was a blacksmith he was most likely owrking to another blacksmith in the area. Daniel's birth certificate would give the actual townland where he was born.
I'm not so sure about the Barr family : Daniel Sn and Margaret Barr's wedding cert says her father was Joseph and that he was a farmer. However, grandad's middle name was Campbell (as in Mary Jane) and Archibald was the name of one of my uncles. A Thomas Barr was a witness at Daniel and Margaret's wedding, but his middle initial was W (not J).
I also have found 2 references to Joseph Barr of Kilrea in the Griffith Valuation (via a free search at Ulster Ancestry) although I don't know much about this source - would it be possible to identify the land cocerned?
Sounds like the reference you have to Kilrea is from marriage of Daniel McNerlin & Margaret Barr. The marriage certificate lists the residence of the bride and groom at the time of the marriage which may not be where the parents were living or where the couple were born.
Griffith's Valuation (the actual valuation not an indexed record) is available at many libraries here in Northern Ireland- will have a look next time I'm at the library if you want (after Christmas). As I mentioned earlier there is a Joseph Barr in Kilrea but the Curragh one is a different family (those Barrs were masons not blacksmiths).
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Thanks Aghadowey
According to Daniel and Margaret's wedding cert, Daniel's father, Thomas, was also a blacksmith. Daniel probably worked for/with his dad. By the way, when I googled Thomas, I got The Articlave Pipe band and a poem on that site which mentions Tom Mcnerlin. The band was founded in 1873, so it seems to fit.
Yes, I would be very grateful if you could look up the griffith Valuation next time you are in the library, but please don't put yourself out.
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Another little bit which might belong to your Barr family puzzle:
Slater's Directory- 1870- Kilrea- Blacksmiths:
Barr Benjamin Coleraine Street
Barr Joseph Maghera Street
Wonder if Margaret Barr's father Joseph was a blacksmith and that's how she and Daniel McNerlin met? Will check Griffith's when I get to the library to see what's listed there.
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Thanks, though Daniel and Margaret's wedding cert says her father, Joseph, was a farmer.
By the way, I have emailed the Articlave Flute Band who have promised to investigate the Tom McNerlin link in the New Year.
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I might be wrong! Having re-inspected the marriage cert, Joseph could have been a farrier, rather than a farmer - the writing is not that good.
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Husband checked through some of our books and found poem last night about Articlave Flute band which I will send in a pm.
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Thanks. I've seen their website and sent them an email asking about Joe and Tom. They said that they will investigate in the new year.
hope you're having a good day.
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Just got back from Ballymena Library and was able to get Griffith's Valuation for Kilrea.
Kilrea townland:
12c Joseph Barr, Worshipful Company of Mercers (landlord), house office forge & yard, annual rent £13 10s 0d.
New Row:
8c Joseph Barr, house office & yard, £3.20.0
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Many thanks Aghadowey. But can you help me interpret it please?
Were there two Joseph Barrs ( as there were houses on both plots)? What was/were the date(s)? (ie could it be the same man occupying 2 premises at different times?). What do "8c" and "12c" refer to? Can the plots be identified? Is New Row still in existence?
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8c + 12c are 'no. and letters of reference to map' next column is occupiers. It's impossible to tell from this whether there were 1 or 2 Joseph Barrs in Kilrea at the time. The Valuation for this area was 1859. 'Worshipful Company of Mercers', known locally as Mercers Co. was the landlord (one of the London Companies granted lands in Ulster. 'Description of tenement' tells what sort of property it is. In the case of 12c Kilrea townland Joseph Barr, the tenant, had a house office (singular meaning only 1), forge and yard. The figures for annual rents are given separately for land & buildings but in both these cases the tenants had no land so the rent was for the value of the buildings.
If you had the Valuation map that goes with Griffith's Valuation you could identify the location of the property and figure whether or not it still exists. New Row is still there (went by it today) and head out of Kilrea off the present Garvagh Road.
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Many thanks.
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Aghadowey, where can one find the Griffith Valuation map?
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Aghadowey
You say that you passed New Row. I can't find it on multimap or google maps - only New Road. Can you describe where it is please.
Also, Griffith refers to a Joseph Barr in Chapel Road, Kilrea. I can only find Chapel Street. might Chapel Road be now called Chapel Street or even New Row (or Road) do you think?
For your info, I heard from PRONI today. They do not have joseph Barr's Letters of Administration - burnt in the 1901 fire. But they will let me have those for James McNerlin.
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Just looked up a recent map for New Row and they seem to be calling it New Road now. Could be same as Chapel Road as New Row becomes Drumagarner Road (B75) and the chapel is at Drumagarner.
Valuation maps are in various libraries here (Coleraine I know have them).
At the moment I am finishing up a research project so not sure when I could check the maps for you but will try to take a few photos if I remember to bring the camera next time I'm passing through Kilrea.
Good and bad news from PRONI it seems.
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Many thanks
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I am researching the Hugh Wilkinson family Hugh married to Nancy Campbell sister of Mary Jane Campbell married to Benjamin Barr both marriages took place in Drumreagh Presbyterian Church Finvoy Parish although both went back to Kilrea and started their families before returning to Antrim years later,
Benjamin was witness at marriage of Hugh and Nancy, Hugh also being a blacksmith, on marriage certificate and living at Seygorry near Aghadowey at time of his marriage not sure it connection is the two sisters or that there are a lot Barrs also around Aghadowey or there occupations bought them into contact, not sure if this information will be of any help, regards
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Vowgirl- welcome to Rootschat.
There are a lot of Barr in Aghadowey area but not all related to each other.
Do you have date of marriage for Hugh Wilkinson and Nancy Campbell? Have family details of William Wilkinson, bleacher, Seygorry, son of William Wilkinson who was a cooper and bleacher, married 1859 Nancy/Agnes McIlroy. They had a son Hugh born 15 Nov.1865. Not sure if this is same family but Wilkinson is not a common Aghadowey surname and the above family did live at Seygorry in Aghadowey Parish which makes me think there could be a connection.
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Yes have all that information for Wilkinson family that is it Hugh Wilkinson married to Nancy Campbell 1866 , thought I might be helping the people looking for Barr family, Barr family only come into what I am researching through the Campbell sisters. Hugh and Nancy owned the Vow Hotel Finvoy Parish Antrim thanks anyway.
I am finding Wilkinson uncommon in Aghadowey area have been looking to find a wife for William Wilkinson a cooper and where his children born etc eldest son John appears to have been born about 1835 and never married, have seen that Aghadowey had a London company of brewers and an Iron company not sure of name so possibly being a cooper was connected to one of these.
Thanks again
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Hello Vowgirl
There may be some connection between your ancestors and mine as my grandfather ( Joseph Barr's grandson, Daniel McNerlin Jn), two of my uncles and at least one of my cousins all have Campbell as their middle name.
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Brief outline of what I have: William Wilkinson (carpenter and cooper)- wife unknown. Children:
1. William (c1835), bleacher, Seygorry, m.1859 Nancy/Agnes McIlroy and had: Eliza, Marianne, Jane Thompson, Hugh, Agnes, William, Hannah, Rebecca, Sarah McIlroy.
2. John, cooper.
3. Abraham (c1840) m.1871 Hannah Woodend.
have seen that Aghadowey had a London company of brewers and an Iron company not sure of name so possibly being a cooper was connected to one of these.
Much of Aghadowey Parish was under the Worshipful Company of Ironmongers (one of the London Companies) and the Brewer Company had the townland of Claggan in Aghadowey and other lands in nearby Desertoghill and Errigal parishes.
Have information on Ironmongers Tenants but unfortunately Seygorry (name comes from local saint, St. Guaire, whose name is also given to the Parish Church in Aghadowey) was part of Church lands and there aren't as many tenants records for it.
No Wilkinsons in Aghadowey Parish in 1831 Census. In 1859 (Griffith's Valuation) William Wilkinson is living in a house in Aghadowey townland with an annual rent of £1.
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Hello Vowgirl
There may be some connection between your ancestors and mine as my grandfather ( Joseph Barr's grandson, Daniel McNerlin Jn), two of my uncles and at least one of my cousins all have Campbell as their middle name.
Yes I think you may be right not so sure about the Barr side but I am sure Joseph would be Benjamins father as Mary and Him had a son Thomas Joseph and Thomas was the name of both the Campbell girls father they had another sister Matilda also I think probably more children in Campbell family I have more marriages for Drumreagh church cant connect these at present very hard when no mothers names on marriage certificates.
Benjamin as I said was witness on Hugh and Nancy's marriage certificate
also Benjamin and Mary (Jean) Jane named their eldest child Nancy.
I also think the other Joseph in Kilrea maybe the brother of Benjamin?
I have seen where Benjamin and Mary Jane Barr signed the Ulster convenant living at Knockans Finvoy in 1912.
With Hugh and Nancy they seemed to have named their children using the Irish/Scots naming pattern as well which helps when looking
Hope this has been of some help
regards Elaine
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Brief outline of what I have: William Wilkinson (carpenter and cooper)- wife unknown. Children:
1. William (c1835), bleacher, Seygorry, m.1859 Nancy/Agnes McIlroy and had: Eliza, Marianne, Jane Thompson, Hugh, Agnes, William, Hannah, Rebecca, Sarah McIlroy.
2. John, cooper.
3. Abraham (c1840) m.1871 Hannah Woodend.
have seen that Aghadowey had a London company of brewers and an Iron company not sure of name so possibly being a cooper was connected to one of these.
Much of Aghadowey Parish was under the Worshipful Company of Ironmongers (one of the London Companies) and the Brewer Company had the townland of Claggan in Aghadowey and other lands in nearby Desertoghill and Errigal parishes.
Have information on Ironmongers Tenants but unfortunately Seygorry (name comes from local saint, St. Guaire, whose name is also given to the Parish Church in Aghadowey) was part of Church lands and there aren't as many tenants records for it.
No Wilkinsons in Aghadowey Parish in 1831 Census. In 1859 (Griffith's Valuation) William Wilkinson is living in a house in Aghadowey townland with an annual rent of £1.
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Brief outline of what I have: William Wilkinson (carpenter and cooper)- wife unknown. Children:
1. William (c1835), bleacher, Seygorry, m.1859 Nancy/Agnes McIlroy and had: Eliza, Marianne, Jane Thompson, Hugh, Agnes, William, Hannah, Rebecca, Sarah McIlroy.
2. John, cooper.
3. Abraham (c1840) m.1871 Hannah Woodend.
have seen that Aghadowey had a London company of brewers and an Iron company not sure of name so possibly being a cooper was connected to one of these.
Much of Aghadowey Parish was under the Worshipful Company of Ironmongers (one of the London Companies) and the Brewer Company had the townland of Claggan in Aghadowey and other lands in nearby Desertoghill and Errigal parishes.
Have information on Ironmongers Tenants but unfortunately Seygorry (name comes from local saint, St. Guaire, whose name is also given to the Parish Church in Aghadowey) was part of Church lands and there aren't as many tenants records for it.
No Wilkinsons in Aghadowey Parish in 1831 Census. In 1859 (Griffith's Valuation) William Wilkinson is living in a house in Aghadowey townland with an annual rent of £1.
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Thankyou so much for the information hope I am posting the messages the right way
regards Elaine
I have something else to ask on another name so will post seperately you may be able to help me with this also
regards
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found this it may not be your joseph. marriage. JOSEPH BARR TO ELIZA JANE IRWIN 23-4-1852 @ KILREA FIRST PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH KILREA, BALLYMONEY, CO. DERRY.
This couple had at least 8 children & the marriage record states that he was a blacksmith, father Robert a farmer. Eliza Irwin was daughter of Robert Irwin & Jane Reid who had 8 daughters.
Cheers Pauline
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I'm the great grandson of Mary Barr, the daughter of Benjamin and Mary. She emigrated to the U.S. sometime in the late 1800s and had three children, Donald, Maxine, and Collin. Collin was killed in an auto accident as a child. Maxine lived a long life and had two children, Teddy and Robert. Donald is my grandfather.
To date I've had very little luck in tracing the Barr family. I'm new to this site and if anyone can lend an assist it would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks very Much,
rsyoung11
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If you mean Benjamin Barr and Mary Jane Campbell that I posted earlier-
Benjamin Barr (c1831-1 Feb.1920) m. Mary Jane Campbell (c1839-7 June 1919). Buried Finvoy Presbyterian Church.
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Dirraw/Knockans/945817
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Dirraw/Knockans/129542
1. Benjamin Barr (c1867-12 Mar.1885).
2. Thomas Joseph Barr (26 May 1868 Kilrea district).
3. John Barr (26 Aug.1870 Kilrea district).
*4. Mary Barr (23 Oct.1872 Kilrea district).
5. Rachel Barr (18 Feb.1875 Kilrea district).
6. James Alexander Barr (27 Dec.1876 Co.Derry). At home in 1901.
*7. Mary Jane Barr (c1876-16 May 1897).
8. William Archibald Barr (13 May 1879 Kilrea district). At home in 1901.
* I found the 1872 birth for Mary Barr (& no death) and a death date for Mary Jane Barr (& no birth) but not sure if this is the same child.
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According to this information Benjamin & Mary married 1856 and had 11 children- registration of births started 1864 so you'd need to check church records for children born 1856-1863.
http://www.ballymoneyancestry.com/VolForumRss.aspx?topic_id=747&print=1
Matilda Barr, born 16 Nov.1861, bapt. 1? Jan.1862 First Kilrea Presbyterian Church, parents- Benjamin Barr & Mary Ann Camphile of Kilrea
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Thanks Very Much Aghadowey,
That helps a great deal and is more than I knew before. I will be planning a trip to visit the Kilrea area soon and your information makes a great starting point. I suspect at sometime the trail will lead me to Glasgow, but I'll have to see.
Thanks Again,
Rsyoung11
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Hi Robert we are DNA matches, so interesting to find you here in Kilrea.
No idea how the Corkers and Barr's are connected, maybe Hugh seniors wife was a Barr or a Campbell
or maybe William Corker's wife Jane Paterson is connected to them
The 1911 Census says that Mary Jane Barr had had 11 children 8 still living then.
As well as your Mary there is a daughter Elizabeth born July 1862 she was married to Charles Fude in Michigan in 1884, and died there in 1930, her death certificate names her parents as Benjamin Barr and Mary Jane Campbell, just noticed the informant was Mrs Mary Miller.
Descendant Kathy Pare is also a DNA match to me, when i click on her you don't come up as a shared, but when I click on you she does and what looks to be her son
Cheers Colin
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Not sure where Corker comes into this thread as I can't see mentioned earlier. There were Corkers around Kilrea and a Corker-Campbell marriage in 1865-
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FGDZ-BPP
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Hi, I’m researching my own tree, and have reached precisely the same question about Joseph Barr and daughter Margaret. I’m descended from Margaret and her husband Daniel. I’d be very grateful for any guidance on Margaret’s parents, and indeed Daniel’s. Many thanks!
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Hello again - I am interested in finding out more about Margaret Barr, who married Daniel Mc(A)Nerlin in June 1871 at Finvoy. They are my great-great grandparents.
I see their wedding certificate says Margaret's father was Joseph, a farmer. However, I can't find any other details of her birth or parents.
One of the marriage witnesses was Thomas W Barr, and his signature appears to match that of a Thomas W Barr in the 1901 census, described at that time as a (Scottish) Covenanter, residing in Coleraine. I know there was a Joseph Barr, farmer, residing at Curragh during the 1831 census. Also, Benjamin Barr, born c.1831, married 1.7.1856 to M J Campbell described his father as Joseph Barr, farmer. Do we think Margaret was Benjamin's brother?
I think she is too young to be Benjamin's daughter (Benjamin had a daughter Margaret c. 1857, but she would have been too young to marry Daniel in 1871). Also, if her father was Benjamin, why would she say it was Joseph...
If anyone has details of Margaret's birth/parents, I'd be very grateful!
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I know that Thomas Wilson Barr was a son of Joseph Orr Barr of Curragh. Will have to check my files for full details of that branch of the family.