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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: KMFRoberts on Monday 17 December 07 23:01 GMT (UK)
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Hi Guys,
Can anyone help with information about the Tyneside Irish?
My Great Grandad, Adam Thornton signed up 15 Dec 1914 and served until 1918. I have found his pension record on ancestry but the pen is very blurred and I can't read all the details on the statement of services. I found some information on the net about the general activities of the regiment and I know there is a book about them.
What I would really like is if anyone else had relatives in the regiment during WW1 and had any pictures of them especially if they are named as I have no photo's of Adam. That said I am happy to learn as much as I can about the Tyneside Irish. Great Grandad came from Annfield Plain in County Durham and was 37 when he volunteered. Apparently my Grandad John William Thornton 15.09.1899 was also in the army, but I haven't been able to find his records so far. He was born in Dipton in Durham. He was injured during the war and my Aunt always said he blamed his stomach wounds for having chronic diabetes.
Any information very gratefully received,
Thanks for your time,
Kathryn.
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Hello Kathryn, You are SO fortunate that your great grandfather survived WWI....one of my Uncles who was also a Tyneside Irish was killed.... I'm sorry that I don't have any information to share with you other than to tell you that you can certainly be proud of him. Incidentally, fusiliers apparently were able to fire their rifles as fast as a machine gun! Pat
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Kathryn,
You are after info on the WW1 "Tyneside Irish".
And you write " I know there is a book about them"
A wee bit of an understatement !. The book about the Tyneside Irish by John Sheen is like a "bible" on the TI.
It is absolutely brimming with photographs, as well as battle info and human interest bits about individuals.
It has several indexes that include every soldier, his home address, when he enlisted, whether wounded, and where buried if he was a fatality, etc, etc.
There is also a "sister" book by the same author on the Tyneside Scottish.
These books are available for referral in libraries and archives in the north-east... e.g. Newcastle City Librasry, and Tyne & Wear Archives.
The 26th Battalion of the Northumberland Fusiliers was also known as the 3rd Battalion , Tyneside Irish
(24th Bn = 1st TI, 25th Bn = 2nd TI, 27th Bn = 4th TI)
(20th=1st Tyneside Scottish, 21st=2nd TS, 22nd=3rd TS, 23rd=4th TS)
If you are unable to access a copy, I will look !
Michael Dixon
Newcastle
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Hi Guys,
Thank you so much for the replies.
I am very lucky that Great Grandad Adam survived, my dad always said Grandad told him that Adam was a changed man when he returned. Goodness only knows what they all went through.
I think I might buy the Sheen book Michael as it seems to be the definitive text to answer the many questions I have. My brother is very keen to learn all about Great Grandad too. My dad was named after him and always talked about what a great gentle giant he was.
I really appreciate all the advice, thanks again and all of you have a good Christmas.
Regards,
Kathryn.
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Both books (second hand etc) are available on Amazon web site.
Michael
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The original book about the Tyneside Irish Regiment entitled 'Irish Heroes in the War' by John E. Redmond M.P., T.P. O'Connor M.P. and Joseph Keating was published in 1917. I have a copy and I believe that was where Mr Sheen got much of his information from.
The Irish Home Rule Bill had just passed it's third reading when WW1 broke out causing Home Rule to be suspended. My great uncle become a recruiting agent for the regiment on the understanding that if the Irish assisted in the war which everyone was told would be over by Christmas then Ireland would at long last be granted her freedom.
In spite of their sacrifices the British government reneged on their promise leading to the Irish war of Independence and more bloodshed, there is no doubt this Regiment would not have been formed had the volunteers known that that was to be the outcome.
Ironically we Irish family history researches are now paying the price of it all. Whilst thousands of Irishmen were sacrificing their lives for the British Empire, the British government ordered the Irish census returns to be pulped to aleviate the paper shortage as a result of the war.
I do have a group photo of my great uncle which includes one of the men he recruited in uniform who was killed in action shortly after the picture was taken, but as Michael advises, if you get Mr Sheen's book there is plenty pictures to see in there.
J.T.A.
PS: There is an A. Thornton listed in my book of 1917.
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Hi Kathryn
Did you every find the info you required about Adam Thornton, I have come across this thread as my Great Uncle served in the Tyneside Irish and was killed in France with no known grave.
I have the book Tyneside Irish by John Sheen and an A Thornton is listed:
Page 237 Appendix V
26th Northumberland Fusiliers 3rd Tyneside Irish
Page 246 Thornton A Pte
26 Battalion Number /702 Company B
26 Anfield Place
Enlisted 15/12/1914
Discharge 9/1/1918 Cause Sick To Depot
Regards
bendywendy
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Thank you for the information. I did take everyone's advice and buy the book and what a book!!
I still haven't found anything on John William Thornton's (granddad) role in the war. My Aunt keeps saying he enlisted and was injured in the stomach but I haven't found any military records for him at all. He was born 1899 and at the time of WW1 lived at the same 26, Annfield Plain address. I am surprised they don't seem to have joined the same unit.
Again any detectives out there who can help I'd be very grateful.
Regards,
K
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Hi Kathryn
There is a photo of Adam and his wife Maria on Ancestry public trees by this treeholder: yvonnewilcoxen1
I have found Adam's WW1 Service Records online and notice something "odd" about one of the children Eliza T/Joddeff 30 March 1906 being classed as Illigitimate to A.T which would refer to Adam Thornton being the father, then a line is struck through this info.... a bit odd as he and wife Maria Towdoff married Mar Q 1897 @ Lanchester, Co. Durham. Note on the SR his wife's surname is spelt Tordoff.
1911 cen shows a Liza Towdoff, niece, 5, born West Stanley interesting ???
I cannot find a birth for this person anywhere, have you, just seems rather puzzling.
Just to recapture you stating I am surprised they don't seem to have joined the same unit
At the beginning of WW1 most lads/men from same villages/towns/cities etc., did go into the same Battalions which was usually the one most associated with the area they lived in, as the war progressed many gaps were left within Regiments and some Battalions even vanished due to the amount of deaths and casualties, so the others were then put into whatever Regiment needed the men most, in fact my Great Uncle served with the Tyneside Irish, he being a deep rooted Yorkshire man this didn't go down well with him and he lost his life too.
Maybe you have heard of the Pals in WW1 these were formed by the men going from same districts into the same Regiments etc., see if you can find the various Pals in the area he lived and see if his name is noted, some were and some weren't.
I have found some Medal Index Cards for a John William/Wm/W Thornton on Ancestry:
John William Thornton Lincolnshire Regiment 26459
John William Thornton Durham Light Infantry, York and Lancaster Regiment, York and Lancaster Regiment 30316, 34621, 34621
John Wm Thornton 3rd E Lancs FA 354306
John W Thornton Royal Garrison Artillery 154397
John W Thornton Royal Engineers 101326
John W Thornton Duke of Wellington's (West Riding) Regiment, Yorkshire Dragoons (Queen's Own), Royal Engineers, Royal Engineers 4267, 4386, 267307, WR/175663
John W Thornton Royal Fusiliers, Labour Corps 315877, 405909
John W Thornton The King's (Liverpool) Regiment, Army Service Corps 28633, T/393668
John W Thornton Lincolnshire Regiment, Labour Corps 29017, 10060
John W Thornton Prince of Wales's Own (West Yorkshire) Regiment 5649, 235100
John W Thornton Prince of Wales's Own (West Yorkshire) Regiment, Royal Army Medical Corps 54039, 146915
John W Thornton Yorkshire Regiment, Yorkshire Regiment, 4/Yorkshire Regiment 156, 200007, 4381451
John W Thornton Yorkshire Regiment 4060, 241622
John W Thornton Welsh Regiment, Machine Gun Corps, Army Service Corps 291092, 143450, M/415272
John W Thornton Princess Louise's (Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders), Royal Engineers 3118, 148526
John W Thornton Royal Tank Corps 316557
John W Thornton Army Service Corps DM2/151333
John W Thornton Royal Army Medical Corps 547, 354306
John W Thornton Army Ordnance Corps 032676
Remember also he may not given his middle name or initial, just to add extra confusion for you ::)
Try and find the Service Records for these above and rule out the ones you find that isn't him.
Try and find these in other public trees too, again remember not everyone is diligent at their research so don't take it that any are correct, check yourself ask questions if you have too.
When you have tackled these and not located him, try searching through the dozens and dozens of John Thornton ???
Good luck, if you need any more help or pointing in further directions just come back and ask any of us, we will do our best to help.
Regards
bendywendy
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Thank you so much, I will work through them.
The photo on ancestry is mine which I shared, the only picture I have of Adam and Maria together.
As for Eliza I have also found her listed as niece but Adam might have been a bad lad with one of his sisters-in-law I'm still trying to solve that one!!
Very grateful to you for the help
Kathryn
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I think this is her birth: Eliza ToDDIFF @ Lanchester, Durham June Q 1906 (Lanchester covered Stanley)
I think the spelling is a mistake, although I have looked at the image and it is spelt this way but this is a typed copy and could be a transcription error from the registers etc.. Also as a point of interest in the spelling of this surname this is the only Birth Reg in this surname, no others, so it must be a mistake of some kind.
Marriage I cannot find anything in any variations of Tor/Tow/Tod etc.. A possibility is that she could have changed her surname to Thornton.
bendywendy