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Some Special Interests => Travelling People => Topic started by: chellin2 on Sunday 16 December 07 02:03 GMT (UK)
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I have just been informed that my great great grandfather had a father called Joiner Buckley born about 1818
I cannot find him on any of the census and was wondering if anyone here has him on their tree and was Buckley a gypsy name.
Thanks
Chellin2
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Hello there is this family with a Joiner
1881 West Ham Essex
Travelling Caravan Meredith Street
Frank Buckley age 39 Suffolk Carman
Elvina wife age 32 Hawker born Suffolk
Mercy dau age 14 Notting hill Middlesex
Leonard son age 12 Petre Suffolk
Albert son age 10 Plaistow essex
Uriah son age 7 Thundersley Essex
Bertha dau age 5 Plaistow
Ambrose son age 2 Plaistow
Joiner Buckley son age 2 months Plaistow
Pam
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Joiner Buckley born 1810 died 1886 age 76 dec quarter West Ham Essex/Greater London 4a 60
Suffolk Parish and Probate Parish records
Baptisms Culford Estate Suffolk
20 April 1843 Hercules son of Joiner and Sarah (Smith) Buckley of no regular abode Tinker and Grinder
Pam
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Oh thanks so much Pam have you got the Source code for that census.
His wife was definitely Sarah Smith' could you see a baptism there for a son called Josiah born about 1833.
I am finally getting somewhere now thanks a lot
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Sorry only the one baptism came up on Ancenstry
Rg11/1710 folio 70 page 63
Still looking for Frank and family on other censuses
Pam
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Thank you Pam thats a great help
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Hello
I am sorry I cannot see the Frank Buckley family in other censuses or Joiner senior.
Pam
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Hi Chellin,
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I have a marriage certificate for one of my possible ancestors, with Joiner Buckley as the bride's father. Her name is Naomi Buckley and she married James Taylor in Stow,Suffolk, in 1861. He is a licensed hawker.
I think it may be who you are looking for, but I haven't much further info.
Lavina
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Hi Lavina
I think that could be him, I have found his marriage certificate online and have sent for it so I will let you know who his father is when I recieve it
Thanks
Chellin2
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According to the Census which you have above:
Frank Buckley age 39 Suffolk Carman
Elvina wife age 32 Hawker born Suffolk
Mercy dau age 14 Notting hill Middlesex
Leonard son age 12 Petre Suffolk
Albert son age 10 Plaistow essex
Uriah son age 7 Thundersley Essex
Bertha dau age 5 Plaistow
Ambrose son age 2 Plaistow
Joiner Buckley son age 2 months Plaistow
"Elvina" I belive was actually Elvira Williams.
Joiner Buckleys wife was Sarah Smith also known as Seni Smith. Thats about all I can remember offhand.
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Thank you very much for that information An65
Chellin2
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I havent finished yet ;D
I had a nose round the Ancestry site. As well as being fab for having loads of Census records BMDs etc etc they also have family trees uploaded by members to peruse. I found one called Buckley Family Tree. So, here you go!:
Joe Buckley b.cir 1780 married Lavinia Skipper
They had
Elijah b.cir 1810 d.1833
Hirum b.cir 1810
JOINER b.cir 1810 d.1886 Plaistow Ex married Sarah "Seni" Smith d.1886
Sam b.cir 1810
Well Joiner and Sarah/Seni had:
Josiah b.cir 1837 Kent d.1873 married Alice Smith d/o James Smith and Elizabeth Odell b 1838 Soham Cam d.1921. Josiah can be found on the 1861 Census at Chrisall Ex with other travelling families who are closely related: Welches and Shaws. (More on them in a moment).
Josiah and Alice had at least two children: Arthur, and
Lazarus - b.1872 d.1925 d.1925 Rochford Ex, he married Elizabeth Shaw (d/o William) b.cir 1871 Ware Herts d.1945 Southend. They can be found on the 1891 Census at West Tilbury Ex, and 1901 Census at Romford Ex.
Their children were:
Corolinda (Lender) 1890 - 1963
Beatrice 1892 - 1948
Matilda 1894
Elias 1896
Leonard 1899 - 1972
Benjamin 1906 - 1968
Penda 1908
Adolphus 1909 - 1983
Eziekiel 1911
Jeremiah 1914 - 1973
Going back to Joiner and Sarah/Seni - their other children were:
Carnation 1839 -1916 (also married briefly to Alice Smith (above) yes thats actually more common than youd think)
Justina 1840 married Woodlock Smith. Now Woodlock is well known for having two brothers, Bartholomew and Cornelius. Cornelius Smith was the father of the evangelist Gypsy Rodney Smith.
Kiomi b.cir 1840
Noah b.cir 1840
Santalina b.cir 1840
Phoebe b.cir 1842
Hercules b.cir 1843 Sfk
FRANK b.cir 1842 Sfk married Elvira Williams 1849 - 22.02.1882 West Ham.
Frank and Elvira had:
Mercy b.cir 1867
Leonard b.cir 1869
Albert b.cir 1871
Uriah b.cir 1874
Bertha b.cir 1876
Ambrose b.cir 1879
Joiner b.cir 1881 - 1882.
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I have a marriage certificate for one of my possible ancestors, with Joiner Buckley as the bride's father. Her name is Naomi Buckley and she married James Taylor in Stow,Suffolk, in 1861. He is a licensed hawker.
Methinks this is the Kiomi on the family history page I found at Ancestry.com.
Rom names were often mis-transcribed. Justinia Buckley/Smiths name turns up transcribed as Testaner and Jessima on the census transcriptions. Lazarus turns up as something unpronouncable on one of them as well. Its worth knowing too, that the Buckleys sometimes went under the alias of Smith. It did not matter one jot to them if they used the mans surname or the wifes, or indeed his mothers or heaven only knows what connection.
Dud aka Arkless Buckley aka Smith was the hubby of Genty/Jenty/Genti/Gentee Gray g.d/o the fabled No Name Heron/Hearn/Herring for a short time. Its hard work checking out the Rom connections. Follow your nose, and go by gut instinct. Likelihood is, you are probably right. Genty/etc various was bapt as Gentee. she often turns up on the census as plain Jane Gray - but she married Arkless (call it Hercules if you like!) Smith/Buckley and he is with her on the 1871 census only as plain Arthur. But he was a Buckley who went by the Smith name. Jenty Smith died in 1918 and is buried at Gorleston Cem in Yarmouth.
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Oh An65 how can I thank you for all that information, I really really am very grateful.
This has made it very easy for me, thanks sooooooooo much
Chellin2
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youre welcome :)
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Hi Ann
do you have the census folio for Genty and Hercules in 1871 as i can find that one which last name are they using
thanks merry christmas :)
Matilda
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Copied from my site:
Thorpe Common, Gypsies In tents, Thorpe St Andrew, Norfolk, 1871
RG10 1828 28 48
Orsera Gray 61 Travelling Musician Hornsey (Horningsea) (Oseri)
Eliza Gray 55 Lincoln Lin (nee Heron)
Soberona Gray 20 North Walsham "Leborina"
Sonny Gray 40 Kelby Lin
Keona Gray 28 Wisbeach "Kiomi"
Emma Gray 22 Norwich
Adolphus Gray 25 Long Sutton
Ethel Maud Gray 8 Scholar Grandaughter London
Frederick Gray 6 Grandson London
Madelina Gray 3 Grandaughter Scholar London
Henry Herbert Gray 1 Grandson Norwich
\\
Boyer Brown 65 Long Sutton Lin "Bui"
Lydia Brown 50 Bury St Edmunds Sfk "Liti" nee Smith
\\
Alice Rupert?? 44 Hawker Cambridge
Willimania Rupert?? 19 camp attendant Kent
\\
Thomas Brown 52 Dealer of Horses Lengton Cam
Lydia Cooper daughter 40 Fakenham "Lidi"
Sapariel Brown duaghter 23 Wisbeach
Edith Cooper 23 Gdtr Yarmouth
Noah Brown 13 Gson Edgefield
John Brown 17 Gson Houncett?
Cordelia Brown 11 Gdtr Reedham
Alfred Brown 4 Gson Thorpe
Laura Brown 1 Gdtr Norwich
\\
Arthur Smith 29 Cane Chair Mender Hornsey Sfk "Arkless"
Jenty Smith 30 Boston (Genti Gray)
Obadiah Gray 15 Stepson musician Hengham (Ingham)
Norah Gray 9 stepdaughter North Walsham
Oscar Gray 6 stepson Sprowston
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thanks Ann
::) i looked and couldnt see it , should of looked harder :-[
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Hi Chellin and An65,
I have found the baptism of Sidney and Arther Buckley, 4/9/1864 & Goliath Buckley 8/9/1867, all sons of Joshua and Alice at Offham, Kent.
Not sure if this fits in with your ancestors.
Lavina
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That looks very interesting!!! thanks for that Lavina
Oh Joiner isnt related to me by the way. :)
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Hello again An65,
The Buckleys are not directly related to me either, but in desperation I am looking at possible links hoping to find more about my Taylors.
I am very impressed what you find and the clear way you put it for us to see.
I have 11 children from Naomi Buckley and James Taylor. In 1881 they are staying with my John Taylor and Sophia (Harris) in Hopton, Suffolk.RG11/2013/Pages 9/10.
I am trying to find out if John and James are brothers, I know both their fathers were called William.
My Taylors also on RG12/1578/2 and RG13/1902/7.
Maybe you have come acroos them in your other searches.
Hope so.
Regards
Lavina
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The only Taylors I came across previously was the family of Phoenix Taylor who married Elizabeth d/o Riley Boss (aka James Heron) and Lucy Boswell. They tended to hang about the Yorks area, tho did sometimes go as far south as Suffolk at least.
As for info found, its all down to Ancestry.co.uk. :)
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hi there,
i also have joiner in my family tree. refering to his brother sam, i just wanted to say that he was married to seni smith first but sam was transported to jamaicia/west indies i believe, (dont know why) and on his return his brother had married his wife. Now i would assume that this is ''gypsy marriage'' and not your ''traditional marriage''. sam went on to live with a girl named sarah hansuff, i think thats how its spelt???
hirum married a peggy lee and they had one daughter britannia.
elijah married elizabeth smith and they had 3 children lazzy, oti & levaithen and they all used the name smith after their father died. oti (william) and lazzy (george). there is an article written on george smith by sharon floate and also george smith wrote his own ancestory story, these can be googled.
hope this fills up some gaps. kushti bok. :D
amanda
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Thanks so much for all that information, I am now putting all the pieces together
Chellin2
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Hi, noticed your reference to the family of Phoenix and Elizabeth Taylor. These are my wifes's great great grand parents. You mentioned encountering them in the yorkshire area. Would it posible you could point us the direction of what you found please?
Regards and thanks in advance
Glyn
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hello all,
just going over oldnotes and found frank & elvira on census 1891 in west ham, essex, with children albert 1871 plaistow
ambrose 1876 ''
joiner ? ''
leonard 1869 petre, suffolk
mercy 1867 notting hill, middlesex
uriah 1874 thundersley essex.
maybe of interest
amanda
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sorry thats not west ham essex, its west tilbury essex. sorry again
a.
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I'd be interested to know who James Taylor's father is given as on the marriage certificate: name and occupation. That's because rumour has it that this James was half-brother to my 2xgreat-grandmother Lementeni Smith.
Thanks in advance.
Hi Chellin,
'
I have a marriage certificate for one of my possible ancestors, with Joiner Buckley as the bride's father. Her name is Naomi Buckley and she married James Taylor in Stow,Suffolk, in 1861. He is a licensed hawker.
I think it may be who you are looking for, but I haven't much further info.
Lavina
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Amanda
Can i ask how you know that Sam returned and married Sarah Hansuff please, as my g-g-g-g grandad Joiner was Sam's brother and i have not been able to find anything out about him after he was transported to Jamacia
Thanks
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hi babygirlbill
i believe he is on the census, but cannot give details as family problems at the moment. all i can remember is it was 1851 census and i would guess essex as this has been where most of my searches have been. sorry about that i hope to resolve things soon but thats teenagers for you.
hope this helps for now, kushti bok
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Thanks Amanda, I will take a look, thats brilliant.
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8)
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hello,i was intrested to read this thread,in particular the buckley/shaw link.im trying to find info on elizabeth buckley born c1795 place unknown,england,charlotte born 1792,benacre?suffolk and mary born c1791,unknown.i believe they are all related.i believe charlotte married james simmonds from the isle of wight and they lived in canterbury.they had sons thomas born c1827,dublin,a bavin maker,james born 1834,canterbury,labourer and henry born c1836 canterbury,a travelling hawker/pedlar/umbrella maker.elizabeth married thomas streeting,a general dealer,in kent in 1841.he is on the 1851 census with elizabeth in canterbury,then he disappears until 1881 when hes in cranbrook,kent,marine store dealer,with new partner mary(shaw).he marries her 1885,cranbrook.they are seperate on 1891 where shes a hawker.the birth of thomas daughter jane in 1862,birmingham suggests he was there at that time(1881 census).theres a possibility mary born 1832 birmingham is the first wife of william shaw,general dealer,born c1831,wolverhampton,staffs.these buckleys might not be travellers,but the occupation evidence etc suggests theres a good chance.id be very intrested in any info you might have on buckleys from suffolk/ireland,any known kent links,any info on travelling shaws from birmingham or anywhere,links between buckleys/shaws,and whether simmonds/streeting families have any other known links,thanks,nel.
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hi babygirlbill
i believe he is on the census, but cannot give details as family problems at the moment. all i can remember is it was 1851 census and i would guess essex as this has been where most of my searches have been. sorry about that i hope to resolve things soon but thats teenagers for you.
hope this helps for now, kushti bok
sorry i didnt get back to you, :-[ found this in my notes hope it helps;
living at hockley on 11/04/1851 census with a sarah hansstulf age 22 and her daug lewefia b. hawkwell aged 1 mth.
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I am currently researching Joiner's son Noah BUCKLEY, born c1847.
I have found his family on the 1881 census, which I thought might be useful for people, as it has been entered under BERKLEY, not BUCKLEY.
RG11/2012 Folio 45 page 21 Thetford Norfolk
Caravan, Bury Road, Thetford
Noah BERKLEY Head 35 Hawker born Norton Suffolk
Susannah Wife 40 born Lavenham Suffolk
Sarah 15 born Malden [Maldon?] Essex
Mary Ann 12 born Malden [Maldon?] Essex
Hannah 11 born Malden [Maldon?] Essex
Alice 6 born Malden [Maldon?] Essex
Noah 3 born Yeldham [Great Yeldham?] Essex
Jestena [?] 6 months born Malden [Maldon?] Essex
Living with SLENDER family
Now I am just trying to confirm that Noah BUCKLEY junior married Nora BUCKLEY ( a cousin?)
Good research vibes to all
Naomi
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hi there,
sorry but i dont have any info on noah buckley either.
what i so have is that he may have married a "smith", i have a leonard born 1880ish to noah buckley, but unsure where this info came from. i do have a beatrice buckley born 1883 who married dennis moore in 17/05/1909,vange essex with her father listed as being noah buckley. this couple went on to have a child, "finnemore moore" ( i know! what a mouthful!) ;D and were living in westcliff on sea around 1910ish. finnemore moore is buried in eastwood church (see other threads regarding this church)
as i say i cannot say for sure that this is "the noah buckley" but seems that it may be possible given the location.
least ways it may help you piece some more together :D
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hi there my great great grandfather was Joiner,his son Canation married alice Smith and there daughter beatrice married George Harris their son William is my father he had six siblings George,linda,louise,lillie,violet, and Leonard I'm trying to find where Canation is buried I've tried billericay churches no luck hope this help
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hi twinny,
carnation is buried at aour family church in eastwood essex. ;D
st laurence & all saints
3rd april 1916 aged 76 years.
hope you enjoy receiving this news and it helps in your search's
all the best
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Hi Twinny
Just to add to the info from aa1webb: you'll find there are quite a few Buckley and Smith burials in Eastwood churchyard, including a good number with monuments. Well worth a visit.
Also, you can now take a look at digitised versions of the parish registers for Eastwood (and many other Essex towns) at the Essex County Council Seax site by paying a fee: http://seax.essexcc.gov.uk
Look for Essex Ancestors in the right hand menu on the Seax home page for all the details.
Best wishes
Sharon
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thanks for your info I live in the Southend I almost live at the cemetery as my parents and grandparents along with my brother and family are also there thanks again
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hi,
lol. are they in eastwood church or sutton?
carnation is in eastwood, did i say that already? :D
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Hi Chellin2 heres some info for you Santalina in the line is my ancester hope this helps all Buckleys of today come from Joiner and Senti Smith, wouldbe interested to know who you are?
Buckley Family
Joe Buckley b 1780 married Lavinia Skipper b 1780
Sons : Hairam Sam & Elijah & Joiner
Hairam Buckley : married Peggy Lee was mother of Britannia Buckley who was wife of William Oadley
Oadley & Rhodes being their cousins
Sam Buckley was transported to Jamaica, before this he was husband of Senti ( Sarah) Smith who then married his younger brother Joiner Buckley
Elijah Buckley married Elizabeth Smith their son Oti (called himself William Smith) they had also sons Lazzy & Levaithen
Lazzy ( known as George Smith) married Kerrlenda Lee They had children : Midora Alice Charles Henry Fredrick Margaret Cecilia Ernest Patrick Arthur
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Joiner Buckley b 1810 Essex – died 1886 In a tent Freemans Road Plaistow Essex
married
Senti (Sarah) Smith b 1810 -died 1886 In a Caravan Neville Road Upton Essex
Senti Smith was 1st wife of Sam Buckley until he was transported to Jamaica, he was brother to her 2nd husband Joiner
Children :
( 1) Justinia Buckley b 1834 Bury St Edmunds Suffolk
married 1862 Kensington London
Woodlock Smith b 1834 Biggleswade Bedfordshire – died 1882 Leystone Essex
Chair Maker & Mender; Cane Worker; Evangelist
Parents: James Smith b 1808 Cambridgeshire – died 1875 Loughton Essex
Elizabeth Odell b 1795 Befordshire -died 1873 Loughton Essex
Children :
Celia Smith b 1856
Owen Smith b 1866
Hezekiah Smith b 1868 – 1887
Matilda Smith b 1880
(2) Santalina Buckley b 1837 Colchester Essex – died 1917 Bohemia Estate Essex
married
Henrietta Boswell b 1840 Ely Cambridgeshire-died 1907 Bohemia Estate Essex
Daughter of Levi Boswell & Mary Lee
Children :
Perrun Buckley b 1863 Staffordshire – died 1945 St Paul's Essex – married Emily Turner 1884 Kent
Adelaide Buckley b 1865 Staffordshire – died 1939 Essex – married Arthur Buckley b 1863 Cambridgeshire
( parents Josiah Buckley & Alice Smith)
Emily Buckley b 1869 Staffordshire married Mackenzie Harris
Penderbella (Pender)Buckley b 1869 Staffordshire - died 1923 Essex – married 1892 -Clara Lee b 1875 -died 1953 -They bought an old tram car and furnished it for worship
Athalia Buckley b 1871 Essex married 1892 -Absalom Lee b 1868
John Buckley b 1873 Warwickshire – died 1927 Essex
Oti Buckley b 1874 Warwickshire- died 1958 Essex - married 1908 - Ada Beatrice Webb b 1887- died 1950
Nathan Buckley b 1877 Essex
Pheobe Buckley b 1879 Essex
Lily Buckley b 1883 Essex
(3) Carnation ( Ganation) Buckley b 1839 Suffolk – died 1916 Essex – married 1873-Alice Smith b 1840-died 1921
(sister of Woodlock Smith who married his sister Justinia Buckley)
Children:
Elias Buckley b 1874 Essex
Prudence Buckley b 1875 Essex
Agnes Buckley b 1876 Essex – died 1955 Essex
Matilda Buckley b 1878 Essex
Florence Buckley b 1880 Essex
Prudence Buckley b 1881 Essex
Beatrice Buckley b 1882 Essex
(4) Naomi ( Kiomi) Buckley b 1841 Essex -died 1913 Essex – married 1861 James (JIMMY) Taylor b 1845 Suffolk
Children:
Alger Taylor b 1862 Suffolk -died 1904 West Ham -married 1879 - Naomi Smith b 1860
( Parents Bartholomew Smith & Susan Lee this being the brother of Cornelius Smith father of Rodney Smith)
Children :
James Taylor b 1880 Essex
Mabel Taylor b 1886 Essex -died 1897 London
Ocean Taylor b 1887 Essex
Theodore Taylor b 1889 Essex -died 1942 Essex -married 1915- Maud E Search
Susan Taylor b 1891 Essex -died 1944 Essex -married 1914 Thomas W Skingley
Albina Taylor b 1893 Essex
Dora Taylor b 1895 Essex
Alger Taylor b 1897 Essex -died 1898 london
Sydney Taylor b 1900 Essex
(5)Pheobe Buckley b 1842
(6)Hercules Buckley b 1843 Suffolk-died 1925 London -married Genty Gray b 1835 -died 1918 Yarmouth
after nominal marriage he married Sarah Draper daughter of Elias Draper “ A fine Harp player”
(7)Frank Buckley b 1843 Suffolk -married 1869 - Elvira Williams
Children:
Morselina Buckley b 1867 Middlesex – married 1894 Job Lee
Leonard Buckley b 1869 -died 1908 Newcastle
Albert Buckley b 1871 Essex
Duriah Buckley b 1874 Essex -died 1921 London
Bertha Buckley b 1876 Essex
Ambrose Buckley b 1878 Essex
Joiner Buckley b 1881 Essex -died 1881 Essex
2nd marriage: 1882 Agnes Boswell b 1858
Children ;
Richenda Buckley b 1883 Essex
Sophia Buckley b 1887 Essex
Thomas Buckley b 1897 Essex
Adolphus Buckley b 1899 Essex
(8) Noah Buckley b 1847 Suffolk -died 1927 Essex married a Smith
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I am currently researching Joiner's son Noah BUCKLEY, born c1847.
I have found his family on the 1881 census, which I thought might be useful for people, as it has been entered under BERKLEY, not BUCKLEY.
RG11/2012 Folio 45 page 21 Thetford Norfolk
Caravan, Bury Road, Thetford
Noah BERKLEY Head 35 Hawker born Norton Suffolk
Susannah Wife 40 born Lavenham Suffolk
Sarah 15 born Malden [Maldon?] Essex
Mary Ann 12 born Malden [Maldon?] Essex
Hannah 11 born Malden [Maldon?] Essex
Alice 6 born Malden [Maldon?] Essex
Noah 3 born Yeldham [Great Yeldham?] Essex
Jestena [?] 6 months born Malden [Maldon?] Essex
Living with SLENDER family
Now I am just trying to confirm that Noah BUCKLEY junior married Nora BUCKLEY ( a cousin?)
Good research vibes to all
Naomi
thank you so much fir this information. brilliant :)
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This is all the Buckley's mine is the shaded area hope it helps