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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: MissM on Sunday 02 January 05 14:12 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to trace the family of my great grandfather, James Moneypenny , who was born in Liverpool in c 1856, and lived his adult life in the Everton area as a House Painter.
I am particularly interested in his parent's names.
I am presuming his family came from Everton but it could be Ireland!!! I'm starting in Everton because a lot of Moneypennys ended up there. Other Moneypennys lived in the Toxteth and West Derby areas of Liverpool.
Thanks in advance for any help!
Miss M
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You don't say what you already have so here goes
1871 census
William Hubbard head marr ?39 mariner Liverpool
Jane wife 29 Liverpool
Mary A daur 7 Liverpool
Helena daur 5 Liverpool
James Moneypenny wifes brother 19 Clerk Liverpool
14 Carson St
RG10/3812 folio 41 page 22
Marriage of James Moneypenny in jun qtr 1880 Liverpool 8b 151 (no Elizabeth on same page though)
1881 census
James Moneypenny head 28 marr painter unemployed Liverpool
Elizabeth wife 18 born Liverpool
Richard son 2mnths Liverpool
James Dixon boarder unm 19 painter unemployed Liverpool
address 7 Viceroy St
RG11/3670 folio 30 page 53
1891 census
can't find him
1901 census
James Moneypenny head marr 45 painter Liverpool
Jane wife 37 Liverpool
Richard son 20 Liverpool House jobber
Matthew son 16 Liverpool general labourer
William son 14 Liverpool shop boy
David son 8 Liverpool
James son 10 Liverpool
John son 7 Liverpool
1 China Street
RG13/3482 folio 35 page 1
Hope this helps
Donna
(??last 2 are her kids as they are listed after his)
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Hi Donna,
Thank you so much for checking for me.
I have a gap between 1851 and 1871 - the James you have discovered is my great grandfather and his son, Matthew is my Grandad.
I haven't seen the Carson Street entry before and that appears to be him too but with his sister Jane. I do have a Jane in 1841 who is daughter of Mathew and Elizabeth, so I'm hoping she is James's sister making them my Great, Great grand parents!
Thanks for all your hard work - I'm thrilled with your findings!
Lynne
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;D ;D ;D ;D
1851 census
12 Carson Street
RG 2189/2 page 339
Matthew Moneypenny head marr 42 Policeman Ireland
Elizabeth wife 46 Isle of Man
William son 19 Clerk Liverpool
Sarah daur 16 dressmaker Liverpool
Jane 10 scholar Liverpool
Eliza daur 6 scholar Liverpool
Ellen daur 3 scholar Liverpool
Elizabeth Lee cousin marr 24 Ireland
Henry Lee cousin marr 20 printer compositor Liverpool
Richard Madden lodger unm 23 Policeman Ireland
in view of same street between 1851 and 1871 I checked 1861
1861 census
9 Carson Street (all within the same house but in different rooms)
RG9 2711 page 120
Matthew Moneypenny head marr 60 Builders Labourer Ireland
Elizabeth wife 57 Isle of Man
Jane daur unm 20 scholar Liverpool
Ellen daur 14 scholar Liverpool
James son 10 scholar Liverpool
John Cleaton/Cleator head marr 33 builders labourer Isle of Man
Sarah wife marr 26 Isle of man
John J son 2 Liverpool
William Moneypenny head marr 30 Book-keeper Liverpool
Emma wife 27 Liverpool
Mary Ellen daur 5 Liverpool
John son 2 Liverpool
1871 census
9 Carson Street Everton
RG10/3812 folio 39 page 18
Matthew Moneypenny head 64 labourer Ireland
Elizabeth wife 67 Isle of man
Hugh Moneypenny lodger unm 63 Clerk Scotland
(fairly certain it is Do for dittoe but could be Lee written scrawly in view of earlier cousins)
RG10/3814 folio 63 pg6
18 Gordon St
William Moneypenny head marr 38 cotton porter Lancs Lpool
Emma wife 39 Lpool
Thomas son 5 Lpool
no definite for Sarah Cleator and family
Donna
PS checked 1841 just in case but can't find them there if you have an address for janes birth then will look again
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IGI
William Moneypenny christening jan 1832 St Peter Liverpool
Sarah Ann christening aug 1834 Lezayre Isle of Man
Eliza christening aug 1837 St Peters Liverpool
Jane Ann christening jan 1841 St Peters Liverpool
Ellen christening jul 1847 St Peters Liverpool
Parents of all Matthew and Elizabeth Moneypenny
Sarahs mother Elizabeth Cretney
Marriage of Elizabeth Cretney and Matthew Maugpenny
2nd Aug 1830 St Nicholas Liverpool
Birth of Elizabeth Cretney
Lezayre Isle of Man
19th Nov 1804
Parents Thomas Cretney and Elizabeth Moore
Marriage of Thomas Cretney and Elisabeth Moore Lezayre Isle of Man 13 sep 1803
I love searching ;D
Donna
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WOW! :o Donna, you are really impressing me now! I can't believe the trouble you have gone too but I'm so grateful - I didn't have any clue to my great great grandmother's maiden name and didn't know where to start looking!
I don't know how to thank you. For various reasons I am unable to visit the records office myself and was getting very frustrated searching the web so thank you again... I'm off to check out my new family!
Warmly,
Lynne
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If you post a request you may find someone going to records office in Liverpool who can look up the baptisms/marriages for you and see if there is any further info on them.
I may be going in next few weeks but can't guarantee it
Donna
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Hi Donna,
Thanks for everything!
I've really filled out my family tree :D
I'm trying to find out about Matthew (DOB c 1809) and his brothers now, as I suspect a few of them came over to Liverpool from Ireland, and as you probably know, a lot of Irish records aren't available. :'(
And also of course, I'm checking out the IOm records now so lots to do!
Thanks again,
Lynne
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Do any of these Moneypennys link up with David Moneypenny born circa 1821 in Ireland , living in Roache Street Toxteth Paryk in 1881. He married Eliza (1822-1901). Children included
(1) William Henry Moneypenny bn 1846 Ireland or Liverpool
(2) James Moneypenny bn 1849 Liverpool
(3) Alfred Moneypenny bn 1859 Liverpool
(4) Charles frederick Moneypenny bn 1861 Liverpool
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Hi Ayla,
I did come across David, Eliza and Alfred living in Roache Street but not the others.
I think my ancestors who come from Ireland to Liverpool must be brothers or cousins of each other, but I haven't got too far in that direction yet!
Thanks for checking this out for me - I'll add it to my files until I can fit it in :)
Lynne
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Hi
This may not be of any help to you but I was in contact with (*) and I think he lived in Liverpool.
I am a Moneypenny descendant living near Belfast.
My family are the Moneypenny's Lock branch.
MM
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Hi marie,
I don't know why but I didn't receive notification of your post so i've just found it by accident!! I was just browsing to make sure I'd posted in here :)
I have tried extensively to find out about the Moneypenny's Lock families and I'm thrilled to see your message. I have posted all over the place to find their names as I'm not getting anywhere with my GG Grandad matthew and I'm hoping he lived there.
I was given an address of Stephen Moneypenny in Belfast whom I wrote to but it either didn't reach him or he is unable to help, as I havent heard back. I tried Craigavon Museum but my emails just bounced back and when I phoned, it wa just an answer phone.
I would be so grateful if you could share you family history with me. I have kept records of every Moneypenny I've come across (right back to the first one!) and one day I hope to put them all on a website, showing their connections.
I think I may have already been in touch with Iain but we couldn't make a connection.
I am so excited to find your post!
Thanks for getting in touch!
Lynne
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Hi Marie
I have been in touch with Iain too. Would be grateful to hear if you have anything on a David Moneypenny born circa 1820 who also emigrated to Liverpool and is probably a relative of Lynne's Moneypennys. David's wife who he probably married before leaving Ireland was Eliza.
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Hi Ayla,
I have got some more info on David but I haven't been able to connect him in to my tree yet. See if this helps.
David B 1821 Ireland
Married Eliza b 1822 Ireland
1861
Living in Francis St, Toxteth with 7 children:
Mary b 1841 in Ireland and married Peter Ball 1871
Robert B 1843 ireland
William Henry B 1847 Armagh, m Ann E Reece 1881 and had 7 children
James B 1848 Liverpool, m Mary Miller in 1881, moved to Oxford by 1901, had 7 children
Sarah Ann B 1851 Liverpool, m Joseph Keating, had 3 children
David B 1857 Liverpool
Alfred B 1859 Liverpool
Charles Frederick B 1861
I have a little more on some of these families so if you have any questions, let me know. Or if you have any idea where they might link into mine, PLEASE let ME know!!!
Lynne
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Hello Ayla,
This is an exciting morning for me. My great great grandfather was, I think, the David Moneypenny you were referring to in a message to MissM. He married Elizabeth McKee who was born at Kedga Coloscommon, Broughton Parish, Ireland. His birth date would have been 1818 - 1820.
My records show that they had two children, Mary and William, born in Armagh, Northern Ireland (and I have letters confirming this) and then had the following children born in Liverpool. James, 2/8/1848 (my great grandfather), Sarah Ann, 1851, David, 1857; (died 1892), Alfred 3/7/1859 and Charles Frederick christened at St Peters Liverpool on 8/12/1861, (died 1868).
I have continuing records if you wish to know more.
Missy2
:D :D
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Hi Missy2
It was interesting to read your info today.
Do you have a Matthew anywhere in your records? I'm having trouble finding any Matthews anywhere in NI so all help is greatly apreciated!
I presume he was born in Armagh and he came to Liverpool via the Isle of Man where I have been able to trace my Cretney line back to 1606 thanks to Donna starting me off earlier in this post!
Look forward to hearing from you,
Lynne
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:)Hi Lynne,
Yes, I have information on 2 Matthews (Mathew). They are not my direct line, but I came across them when searching for my great grandfather James, whose father was David, also from Ireland. I found them in the 1851 uk census.
Mathew Moneypenny, born Ireland, was married to Elizabeth, (neé ?) born Isle of Man. His age was given as 42 and hers 46. He was a policeman and they lived at 12 Carson Street, Everton, Lancs. They had the following children - William 19; Sarah 16; Jane 10; Eliza 6; Ellen 3. The children were all born in Liverpool. Lancs.
In the 1861 census, Matthew's age was given as 60 and Elizabeth as 57. Still at 12 Carson Street, Everton. The children then at home were Jane 20; Ellen 14; and James 10, (when he appeared in the 1881 census I mistakenly thought belonged to me).
1871, there was only Matthew and Elizabeth and a boarder named Hugh whose surname was not listed so I suspect that it was also Moneypenny. He came from Scotland and was 40 years old. I have not checked the census for 1881 for Matthew and Elizabeth.
However, the 1901 census listed the following:
James Moneypenny, head of house (born abt 1856), his wife Jane Moneypenny (born abt 1864), sons Daniel (abt 1893), James (abt 1891), John (abt 1894), Matthew (abt 1885), Richard (abt 1881 and he appeared in the 1881 census as a baby of 2 months) and finally, William (abt 1887). All the children were born in Liverpool.
I have a copy of the marriage certificate of this James Moneypenny. When he married Elizabeth Jane Lewis, on 17/5/1880, he was a widow aged 26. She was a spinster, aged 19.
James' father was Matthew Moneypenny, a police officer.
Elizabeth's was Richard Lewis, also a police officer. Both James and Elizabeth's address was given as Great Homer street, and they were married at St Nicholas' Church, Liverpool. (Elizabeth appears to be illiterate as her signature was marked with an X.)
I hope this will be of assistance to you in your search.
Noela
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Hi Noela
Thank you for passing on all that info. Sadly I already have most of it and those two Mathews are my G G Grandfather (abt 1809) who married Elizabeth Cretney of IOM, and Grandfather (1887) with G Grandad James (1852) in the middle. It is previous to 1809 that I come unstuck.
In your note you mention a Daniel born in 1893 to James and Elizabeth Jane but I have him as David, who later married to Beatrice Walsham. I see this isn't your David though. I do have a lot of your family line on my list but have taken some more info from your post to Ayla.
I'm pretty sure your GG Grandfather and mine were brothers or cousins because they came from the same area, were born roughly around the same time, and both came to Liverpool.
I have loads of info on the first Moneypennys in Scotland right through to the 1600's in Ireland and then I lose the thread. I only have bits and bobs from then until Mathew was born in 1809 and can't make the connection back! I then have more information on the Liverpool Moneypennys of the 1800's and a few others who moved away.
If you'd like to share any of it, once you find David's line, please just ask. I really must try to put this on line sometime - I keep talking about it but it's just finding the time!
Best wishes cousin! ;)
Lynne
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::) Hi Lynne,
Pleased to meet you, cousin. I thought you may have much of the info as there seems to be plenty of it on the Web through various sources. Ayla has been in touch with info for me which is much closer to home and I didn't know it!!!
I have screeds of early Scottish info through the old website put on by Chuck Moneypenny in the USA and passed on to me by my niece back in about 1997 but I seem to come to a dead end with David and his migration from Ireland. I had thought that Matthew and David could be cousins. All the families seemed to lack imagination as far as naming their children and the same names crop up again and again in each generation. Mary Moneypenny, daughter of David and Elizabeth was baptised at a place called Brown's Meeting House near Armagh and William Henry was christened at Muhlabrach Church, also somewhere near Armagh in 1844.
This information was passed on by letter to my grandfather, Leontes (Leonard) here in Australia in 1914 by Mary Ball's son, Robert, when the family was trying to trace a William Moneypenny who died here, supposedly dying intestate. They were unsuccessful, but I have found him since.
I have only returned to reseaching after holidays but will keep you posted if I come across anything further.
Noela
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Hi, thanks Noela (and everyone else) for fleshing out a few details about my line (such as my great grandfather William Henry's baptism).
I've been collecting info on the Liverpool Moneypennys (I'm one, Iain) for a while and am trying to build up a small web resource, with photos and a bit more depth.
It's limited at the moment to my direct line tracing back to David (b 1821 Ireland) but I'm intending to branch out a bit more as time goes by. You can find it at http://www.moneypenny.org.uk/findex.htm
There's a contact email link there - the one for me posted earlier in the thread is no longer in use. If anyone's got an old family picture with William Henry on it I'd really like to see it!
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Hi Iain
Nice to hear from you!
I can send you some more information if you like. I think I still have your email address at home (in work at the moment!). I've mainly concentrated on Irish/Liverpool Moneypennys and put them into an alphabetical table which I can send to you.
Thanks to Donna way back in Jan 05 I found Mathew had a cousin, Elizabeth and I've recently found the reference for her wedding certificate. This might give me her father's name (I HOPE!) and therefore possibly Mathew's brother's name. As I think your David is possibly his brother, this might make it easier to trace their father.
Phew! Lots of if's and might's there! ;)
Let me know if you want the records I have.
Lynne